Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Rise of Political Violence; Suspect Arrested in Shooting of Charlie Kirk. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 12, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:40]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The manhunt is over. The suspect in the shooting of Charlie Kirk is now in custody. What we're learning about the manhunt officials say grew more political in recent years.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And meeting the moment. The Utah governor put it this way. Is this the end of a dark chapter or the beginning of an even darker chapter?

And Memphis-bound, the president just announcing that he is heading to Tennessee to crack down on crime.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: This afternoon, we're learning a lot more about the suspect in custody for allegedly shooting Charlie Kirk. Right now, he's being held without bail on multiple initial charges, including murder, and federal charges could come as soon as later today.

Just a short time ago, Utah's governor saying the 22-year-old confessed or implied to his family that he shot the conservative activist. With the manhunt over, the search for a motive is now intensifying, the governor revealing some of the disturbing messages found on bullets.

And we're also hearing some chilling new details about an alleged conversation the suspect's family recently had about Charlie Kirk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Investigators interviewed a family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent years. In the conversation with another family member, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to UVU. They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had.

The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Ed Lavandera is live for us on the scene in Orem, Utah.

Ed, what more did we learn at this press conference?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have details alleging the information coming from the governor here in Utah talking about how everything kind of quickly unfolded yesterday evening after the last press conference was around 8:00 Mountain time last night.

And authorities say that, after that -- and it's not exactly clear if it was directly related to the videos and the pictures that were released, but shortly after that, around 10:00 is when everything started to unfold with this suspect and his family members reaching out to someone there in Washington County, which is in the southwest corner of the state.

And we were told by -- we're outside the jail where Tyler Robinson is being held. And we were told that he was booked into the jail here just before 2:00 a.m. yesterday. So it gives you a sense of how quickly things unfolded. But investigators say, in the course of the investigation in the overnight hours, they were able to see messages that the suspect shared with his roommate.

Investigators talked about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COX: Investigators identified an individual as the roommate of Robinson. Investigators interviewed that roommate, who stated that his roommate, referring to Robinson, made a joke on Discord. He opened it and showed several messages to investigators.

The content of these messages included messages affiliated with the contact Tyler stating a need to retrieve a rifle from a drop point. The messages also refer to engraving bullets and a mention of a scope and the rifle being unique.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So, all of those details starting to emerge here. We knew, as I mentioned, he was booked in here to the jail around just before 2:00 a.m.

We have learned from two sources that he is not speaking with investigators. Apparently, he did speak with some early on, but has since stopped talking as well. And he's being held without bail. It could be early next week before he makes a court appearance.

So that's the latest that we have here as we continue to dig into the details surrounding this major arrest -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Ed Lavandera live for us in Utah, thank you so much. Let's discuss with CNN law enforcement analyst and former Secret

Service agent Jonathan Wackrow, as well as former FBI assistant director for the Criminal Investigative Division Chris Swecker.

Thank you both for being with us.

Chris, it was just a day ago that you described this as a potential scenario. Once the FBI had put out these images, you said that family members or friends might recognize this suspect and give law enforcement the identity or a tip leading to the identity of the shooter.

[13:05:14]

I wonder what you make of how all of this unfolded.

CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Yes, under the circumstances, these grim circumstances, this was the best-case scenario.

And this is what law enforcement -- that was the whole purpose of putting that information out there, was to have someone that knew him and was close to him to identify him and do the compassionate thing. This doesn't happen very often, but this person's father is a deputy sheriff and he understands the system.

Do the compassionate thing and foreclose a terrible ending like a shoot-out or -- in which everybody's jeopardized, or a suicide. So it was probably a gut-wrenching thing for the father to do or the family member to do, but it was the right thing to do. And I would give him credit for the courage that it take to do it, but it did very likely save lives, including perhaps his own son's life.

That's even harder compounded by the fact that he's probably facing the death penalty.

KEILAR: Yes, that's a very good point.

Jonathan, Governor Cox says that a family member told investigators that the suspect had become more political in recent years. How critical is it for investigators to understand that evolution? How will they look into it?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Brianna, good afternoon.

And the key word there is evolution, right? So starting off with grievance, we know this individual had grievances. We know that he had ideations of violence. We know that there are multiple red flags. the behavioral anomalies that the family member has described, as the governor had also described in the briefing this morning, the messages that were shared by the roommate on Discord specifically referencing a rifle at a drop zone and other key initiatives.

All of that -- let me make a bright line distinction here. Those aren't jokes. Those are red flags that actually need to be actioned off of. When we talk about the pathway to violence, this individual is almost a textbook example, leading all the way to the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

So we have to identify as communities -- and I think this is where the governor was going this morning. As communities, we have to be able to recognize what these red flags are and be able to find a pathway to escalate them the right way so we can have early intervention along this pathway of violence to prevent these tragic events from happening.

SANCHEZ: I wonder, Jonathan. The governor seemed very confident that the suspect acted alone. Is it typical this early in an investigation to have that level of confidence?

WACKROW: Well, what we don't know is the totality of the evidence that law enforcement has. But when he says that he's acting alone, it most likely means that he is just a lone actor.

But the influence that this individual had across digital domains and other influences in his life, that is exactly what investigators are looking at right now. What motivated this individual to get up and assassinate another human being? Again, that is not normal.

And there's influences that go along with that prod that individual along to make them take such a tragic action. So, again, while the governors right, this individual -- the act may be individual, but the influence could be very, very broad here.

KEILAR: And I wonder, Chris, what you make of the messages on the casings. There were, of course, comments about fascists, but there were also phrases that are commonly used for trolling in online communities.

SWECKER: Yes, I don't know if they put out everything that was written on the ammunition, but I think a lot of people, some -- many with experiences like mine, immediately default to this -- it's ideologically based domestic terrorism. And domestic terrorism is just a label.

There's no charge of domestic terrorism. But the messages, they're going to have to be interpreted by law enforcement. I don't think they're going to be dispositive when it comes to murder one prosecution. He clearly premeditated and executed on this. And I think what he writes on that, it may have some value in studying his motivation and why he did it and what led him to this place.

But I don't think it's going to have a whole lot of weight when it comes to the prosecution in state court, because that's -- motive is good to know, but it isn't an element of the crime. So that's a big long windup to say, I think it's a little bit overcharged right now in terms of the significance of it.

[13:10:17]

It's significant from the standpoint of it's probably ideologically based domestic terrorism, but that's just a label. SANCHEZ: Do those things written on the weapon and elsewhere tell you

anything, Jonathan, about the ideology behind the shooter?

WACKROW: Yes, I mean, well, listen, it just pivoting off of what my colleagues just said, I mean, from a prosecutor's -- prosecutorial standpoint, it doesn't -- it may not be the key element for prosecution.

However, when we start looking at the profile of this individual, we start looking at what those messages were -- and, listen, if there were writings on shell casings and writings on the weapon, guess what? I will almost guarantee that there are writings in journals and online and in that Discord forum.

There is a lot of trace evidence here of ideological influences, either direct or indirect to this individual. Again, when we think about somebody's pathway to violence and where they start off with grievances all the way through this ideation, all the way through thinking about the planning process of this attack, and then finally launching this attack, there are influences that are -- abound everywhere along that continuum.

So, again, investigators are going to look at these writings. They're going to try to find the sources of them and see, again, how much did that ideological element influence the direct action by this hostile actor?

SANCHEZ: Jonathan Wackrow, Chris Swecker, thank you both. Appreciate the perspective.

Still ahead: the governor of Utah urging Americans to log off social media after images of Kirk's killing flood people's accounts. We're looking at the mental health impact this is having on the nation.

KEILAR: Plus, Qatar's prime minister visits the White House just days after Israel attacked Hamas leaders in Doha. So what's at stake?

SANCHEZ: And Memphis-bound. The president says the National Guard is deploying to another city, this time in a Republican-led state.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:50]

KEILAR: Today, with the nation on edge after Charlie Kirk's murder and the growing surge of political violence, we heard from two political leaders with two very different messages.

SANCHEZ: Yes, first, listen to what President Donald Trump had to say this morning on FOX News, followed by what Utah's Republican Governor Spencer Cox said at a press conference just a short time later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) QUESTION: What do we do about our country with that? Because we have radicals on the right as well. We have radicals on the left. How do we come back together?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I will tell you something that's going to get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less. The radicals on the right oftentimes are radical because they don't want to see crime. They don't want to see crime, worried about the border.

They're saying, we don't want these people coming in. We don't want you burning our shopping centers. We don't want you shooting our people in the middle of the street. The radicals on the left are the problem, and they're vicious and they're horrible.

COX: We can always point the finger at the other side. And at some point, we have to find an off-ramp, or it's going to get much, much worse.

History will dictate if this is a turning point for our country. But every single one of us gets to choose right now if this is a turning point for us. We get to make decisions. We have our agency. And I desperately call on every American, Republican, Democrat, liberal, progressive, conservative, MAGA, all of us to please, please, please follow what Charlie taught me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss this further with CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny and presidential historian Tim Naftali.

Jeff, President Trump had multiple opportunities during the FOX interview to make a call for unity, and, instead, you heard what he said.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He did.

I mean, I believe at least three times by each of the FOX anchors asked him what he would say to parents or what he would say to Americans, really almost nudging him to have a bit more of a message, a presidential message. This is a moment. All presidents are tested in these moments. It's a leadership moment.

And he reverted back to his various things he normally says. But I was so struck by Governor Spencer Cox, a Republican in his second term in Utah. Most people are probably not familiar with him. But this is something that he has been talking about for so long, since he ran for governor and even before that, about, yes, you can disagree. That is part of the fabric of America, but do not be disagreeable.

But he was clearly using this moment, as he has all week long, to try and urge Americans to really step up and make a choice here. He said, is this the end of a dark chapter of our history or the beginning? So I was very struck by Governor Cox there.

And just the political history of him, back in 2016, before he was governor, he endorsed Marco Rubio and then Ted Cruz and did not support Donald Trump until the assassination attempt on his life. At that point, he came out in the Republican Convention last summer and supported Donald Trump because he said, because of that miracle, you have the opportunity to do something that no one else can do right now to unify and save our country.

[13:20:08]

But, clearly, it's a long remove from the feelings of last summer.

KEILAR: Yes, it's also -- it's about how you see the country, right? Because do you see it sort of as two very separate pieces, or do you see it as interconnected, such that one side hurting is something that is affecting the whole?

And, Tim, to that, can you kind of put this in context? Because different leaders have approached this in those two different ways, but largely they have seen the country as a whole. They have seen these moments of tragedy as even if it hurts one side -- quote, unquote -- "of the political spectrum," they realize that this is something that actually hurts the entire country.

So talk to us a little bit about how presidents have addressed these moments of tragedy, deciding whether they're going to go for division or they're going to try to bring people together.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, our presidents have more responsibility than most any elected person on the planet. And one of them is that they're our chief -- our head of government, as well as our head of government -- chief of state.

And as the chief of our state, they should want and search, seek and many of them and most of them have, they seek a unity of that state. We are in a particularly fraught moment because our differences today are described as being apocalyptic or existential.

And when you use language like that, there seems to be no alternative but war, at least violence. And that is wrong. And that is not the way that a country like ours should proceed. We have a First Amendment right to have controversial ideas and to speak them.

Someone like Charlie Kirk had the right to be secure. Mr. Kirk was doing exactly what we would want political idealists and theorists to do, which is to share and debate and to go to young people and show that they can speak their mind safely. And for him to have been cut down while doing that sends a horrible, horrible message.

And I must say I worry about the consequences. We have seen presidents try to soothe U.S. and heal us. But we are not necessarily in a moment where enough leaders can show the kind of thoughtfulness and love of country that Governor Cox is showing.

We need more of that, a lot more of it. We have been through several eras of political violence in this country. And as a country, we have dealt differently with each one. The most famous to us, of course, is the era of the '60s and the '70s, when, to paraphrase Lincoln, certain mystic chords of memory, and memory of World War II, shared sacrifice of the Great Depression, and also fear of communism set limits to how Americans treated each other and helped create national empathy.

It wasn't perfect. Certainly wasn't perfect in the South, but there were sense -- there was a sense of empathy. And differences were not viewed as apocalyptic, but that's not the case now. We don't have those mystic chords of memory. We don't even have that empathy. And so this is a fraught, dangerous moment in a way that the '60s and '70s were not.

SANCHEZ: I also imagine, Tim, that even in those dark periods of U.S. history, they didn't have to deal with algorithms that preyed upon people's fears and anxieties, and not to be too rhetorical, but didn't allow those better angels to come through, right?

NAFTALI: Right.

Well, look, social media thrives on provocation. It thrives on getting your attention. In the political space, that means provocation. In the cultural space, that might mean beauty, beautiful language, beautiful face. But in the political space, in the space of ideas, it's all about provoking and getting attention.

That's not the right climate for healing. Now, there's nothing we can do about social media. It exists. But what we can do -- and this is something that happens in the homes -- it's not necessarily somebody talking on television or doing TikTok. It's in the homes. It's where parents sit down with kids and explain to them that, even if you disagree with someone, they are a human being too.

Mr. Kirk had a wife and two children and a family. Mr. Kirk was a person. He wasn't just a set of ideas you disagreed with. You can say the same of Gabby Giffords, is a person. The two state legislators of Minnesota, one who paid with their life, are human -- were human and are human beings.

[13:25:15]

It's when you lose that empathy that you find yourself in a world that is extremely dangerous. And I fear we're on the tipping point of being in that world in this country at this time.

KEILAR: Yes, and I think -- Jeff, you have covered Washington. You have context for this. You have covered a lot of different leaders of different political persuasions, and it's not a political thing where they adhere to that idea of empathy, right?

We have known Democrats and Republicans who adhere to that.

ZELENY: Sure.

KEILAR: I wonder sort of just what -- if you can just speak to your experience, having covered so many people. It's difficult, right? It takes a lot of political skill for a leader to bring that about.

It takes a lot of political talent to do that. ZELENY: It does, and there has to be an audience that is receptive to

it.

And I think that that is something that Governor Cox was so poignant in saying that it's not just the politicians. There has to be an audience for that. So I think that, to the point about algorithms, we are united in our own divisions. There's no doubt about that. So I think it will take certainly political leaders. Like, they must sort of drive this, and not just the elected officials.

Charlie Kirk was not an elected official, and there are many others who are not. But I think that it starts with political leaders, and it starts with political leadership and the media, and it clearly -- there has to be a moment for a receptive audience for this. But I think the governor's words also, set down the phone, have a conversation with people.

And I think that that is something that he really called on the younger generation to do that, saying you're inheriting a country where politics feels like rage, but you have an opportunity to build a different culture.

So, look, I would love to be optimistic in saying that could happen. But I think our history shows that some cynicism and pessimism is also perhaps warranted here.

KEILAR: Yes, you can break the cycle. It's difficult. It's possible.

ZELENY: It would be nice.

KEILAR: It would be nice.

Jeff, Tim, thank you so much for the discussion.

And next: In a rare move, the U.S. sides against Israel on the world stage, condemning its attack earlier this week on Hamas in Qatar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)