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FBI Director Says, DNA Evidence Matches Suspect in Charlie Kirk Killing; Treasury Secretary Says, Framework for TikTok Deal Ready to be Signed; Memphis Braces for Possible National Guard Employment. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 15, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We've got brand new information from the FBI director this morning on the deadly shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, a note left behind and the DNA evidence found at the scene.

Breaking news, the White House teasing a major announcement with China coming this week. It seems to be about TikTok. The brand new details we're getting in.

And then down on diplomas, why opinions on getting a college education are dropping and what it means for the future.

Sara is out. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN News Central.

This morning, the FBI says, there is new DNA evidence in the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Investigators are poring over clues as they work to determine the possible motive. FBI Director Kash Patel says that includes a note from the suspect stating that he had the opportunity to kill Kirk and was going to take it. And Patel adds that the suspect has now been linked to the crime scene through DNA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: The DNA hits from the towel that was wrapped around the firearm and the DNA on the screwdriver are positively processed for the suspect in custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The 22-year-old is currently being held in jail under a special watch pending a mental health evaluation. Authorities say he is not cooperating with the investigation. According to the FBI director, his family says he subscribe to left wing ideology.

Utah's governor says that authorities are examining the suspect's romantic relationship with his roommate, who was transitioning from male to female as part of the push to find the motive behind the tragedy. The suspect is due to make's first court appearance tomorrow. We've got CNN's Danny Freeman on the ground in Utah this morning with the very latest. Good morning, Danny.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Yes, I want to talk about those two big developments that we just learned from the FBI director within the past few hours because they really do shed new information tying the suspect here, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, to this shooting of Charlie Kirk earlier last week.

So, let me run through what we know. So, you mentioned the DNA, let's talk about that first. Kash Patel said that a screwdriver was found on the roof, on the university where this shooting took place. And that also the gun, the hunting rifle that was used in the shooting, was wrapped in a towel that was discarded in the woods. Both of those items, the screwdriver and the towel, had DNA on it. And the FBI director said that they have now been able to match that DNA to Robinson.

Though, notably, Kash Patel also pointed out that the ATF, they're handling the firearm specifically, so we didn't have any updates on if they could connect any DNA on the firearm potentially to Robinson at this particular point.

But, John, then I want to talk about this potential note. So, you might recall the governor of Utah, Governor Cox, he told CNN yesterday, or I should say, he appeared to confirm the existence of a potential note that may have shed light on Robinson's thinking prior to this shooting. Well, today, Kash Patel said that the written note, we believe, did exist, but he said that the note may have been destroyed.

And this is interesting, John, the FBI director said that they had forensic evidence that the note was destroyed, but they think they have an understanding as to what the content of the note was, as you mentioned, that might have said I had the opportunity to take out Kirk, and I'm going to take it.

Now, John, this new information this morning comes amid really a flurry of new information over the weekend, including information about Robinson's roommate who was, quote, a romantic partner, transitioning from a male to a female, in the words of Governor Cox, and also this information that Robinson, as far as we understand, was living a fairly normal life, part of a conservative family here in Southwest Utah, but had started to move to left ideologies in recent years.

[09:05:12]

Take a listen to the conversation between CNN's Dana Bash and Governor Cox specifically on that point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You told The Wall Street Journal that it is, quote, very clear to us and to the investigators that this was a person who was deeply indoctrinated with leftist ideology. Can you elaborate on that and be more specific?

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Well, sure. So, that information comes from the people around him from his, his family members and friends. That's how we got that information. Again, there's so much more that we're learning and so much more that we will learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, John, we're hoping to learn more information tomorrow. That's when we're expecting formal charges to be announced, and also when we're expecting to see Robinson make his first court appearance here in Utah. John?

BERMAN: Danny Freeman in St. George, Utah, Danny, it's great to have you on the ground with all the latest reporting. Thank you. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And on all this latest reporting, let's bring in right now retired FBI Special Agent Daniel Brunner. It's good to see you again.

So, let's take a few of these pieces and you tell me what, what you do with it, right, the suspect not cooperating with investigators now. How do they go about getting around this?

DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: No, there's no getting around it. We have to -- as investigators, we have to plan on this, that assuming that there won't be cooperation. So, that doesn't really change the course of how the FBI investigation is to be conducted.

The Salt Lake Division is going to be putting all of their forces into this. Every squad from every branch is going to be assisting this investigation, because there is not going to be one stone unturned. Every interview is going to be conducted. They're going to collect every piece of evidence, even if he was cooperating. This would not change how the investigation moves forward. Every piece of evidence goes forward assuming that the individual is going to change course, let's say, not cooperate and wanted to go to trial.

So, nothing changes whether the individual is cooperative or not cooperative. That does not change one aspect of the investigation. They're moving forward, collecting every piece of evidence to prove it in court if this were to go to trial.

BOLDUAN: One of the things that Utah's governor has been speaking out quite a bit about is how the suspect, or the way he was describing it on the shows yesterday morning, was he was -- the suspect was engaging in the dark internet. How does this guy's online behavior inform investigators, or how important or challenging is it to piece together an online profile to help investigators try to get through this?

BRUNNER: Well, that's a great question, because in today's technological world, there's two sides. You have the physical evidence, which is the rifle, the gun, everything, the towel, that's all going to be there. So, that is going to be part of what prosecutors are going to move forward and trying to prove without a shadow of a doubt that he conducted this attack. And then you'll have the digital evidence. That can also be shown towards motive and that will also be helpful in the court trial. But that also helps gathering all that digital evidence to see if he was influenced by somebody else, if he was, you know, cooperating with somebody else, if somebody else assisted him getting the weapon, or actually motivated them to conduct this attack, because there could be additional people to get arrested.

But this also really helps, you know, behavioral analysis unit, individuals at Quantico from the FBI, to really paint the picture as to why this individual decided that firearms and shooting and killing of Charlie Kirk was the only answer going down this pathway to violence, seeing, and they analyze the attack, they analyze his motivations and finding out what red flags were missed, that way in the future, if these red flags are seen again, it can prevent a future attack.

BOLDUAN: Daniel Brenner, great to see you, as always, I appreciate your help. John?

BERMAN: All right with us now, CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams. Counselor, always great to see you.

Big day tomorrow, the first court appearance for this suspect. Exactly what is this appearance and what do you expect that we will learn there?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, John, more than anything else, it's an opportunity to advise the defendant of the charges against him. We, in the public may have been chattering about it, but the right that someone is guaranteed under the Constitution is to be advised of what he's charged with. So, they're going to tell him what the charges are. They will likely give him an answer, an opportunity to respond in the form of saying guilty or not guilty, and will then likely set a calendar or schedule for the next series of hearings that are going to come up, maybe even the trial, although the judge may not set that for some time.

BERMAN: And in terms of what's happening now, one of the things we've been reporting regularly is that this suspect is not cooperating. What's the significance of that?

WILLIAMS: Well, again, we should be careful in characterizing the fact of his not cooperating.

[09:10:02]

Because, as the prior guest had said it, number one, it happens all the time, but more importantly, it is his right under American law to not cooperate with law enforcement. We've all heard about the Fifth Amendment. You have the right to remain silent. Well, that's also the right to not talk to police, you know, when you're in custody and they're asking questions.

Now, again, there's plenty of evidence, it seems, of other people who are willing to talk to law enforcement and a case that is appearing to be quite compelling based on physical evidence that they're compiling. But, again, that doesn't have to come from the defendant, and shouldn't. And to be clear, you know, people want this guy to go to jail. The last thing on earth people want is him talking to police because those kinds of statements could actually jeopardize a future trial if a statement was taken from him improperly. So, it's very important, just let him be silent if he wants to be silent.

BERMAN: What we keep hearing from the FBI director in other officials, these trips and drabs of new information coming out, the idea of DNA evidence here, maybe a note there. When do you think we will actually see that in legal documents or filings?

WILLIAMS: Maybe as early as tomorrow if in fact they're advising of the charges. And they may not show the actual documents until they're evidence, but they might detail them in a document saying, this is what we have. So, any number of these things, you know, will be brought to the public's attention.

You know, the note is interesting only because it appears that law enforcement doesn't actually have it physically, and a defense attorney's head would explode over that and could possibly challenge, even talk about it in court if, in fact, they don't have this physical note.

BERMAN: So, this is obviously so public and the national interest is so intense. To what extent, and this is looking forward, very forward here, but to what extent does that complicate the process of selecting a jury?

WILLIAMS: Quite a bit, but it can be done. Look, there have been many trials of this century in your lifetime and mine, and juries can be found. Now, the challenge is not finding people who know nothing about the case. It's finding people who, even if they know something about the case, can set it aside and agree to judge the defendant fairly. And those exist. There are a lot of people that don't follow the news or even who follow the news and are willing to sort of put that aside.

The bigger challenge here is if in fact they are proceeding with the death penalty, that's a second hurdle in picking a jury. You know, prosecutors are going to be looking for people, not just who are prone to convicting, but also who are prone to convicting and then assigning a death sentence. Conversely, defense attorneys can be looking for people who are going to acquit, but also if he's convicted, not getting him executed. So, that's a more complicated jury selection than you usually see.

BERMAN: Counselor Elliot Williams, always great to speak with you. You explain things so clearly. I really appreciate it.

All right, new this morning, the president signaling a deal may have been reached with China to save TikTok. We'll get those new details to you as soon as they're in.

And the race for mayor in New York takes a turn. The endorsement just picked up Zohran Mamdani.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

BERMAN: All right. Breaking news, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says that the framework for a deal has been reached to keep TikTok in the United States. Now, you might remember a bipartisan majority of Congress voted to effectively ban TikTok here because of Chinese ownership. But despite the law, the administration has kept pushing back that deadline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: We have a framework for a TikTok deal. The two leaders, President Trump and Party Chair Xi, will speak on Friday to complete the deal, but we do have a framework, for a deal with TikTok.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Any idea what this framework for the deal is?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, we're still waiting for it. And we definitely heard Scott Bessent try to play it off and say he can't share any of the details, but that the commercial aspects of the deal have been agreed to. Of course, we have to see, what the president and Chinese President Xi Jinping say on Friday, because really what we heard from both Bessent and the United States trade representative, Jamieson Greer, is that it will be finalized, after getting sign off from leadership. And, of course, that call between Trump and Xi is going to take place on Friday to do just that.

But we also heard more, John, from Jamieson Greer, like I said, the United States trade representative. He was also in Madrid for these talks with their Chinese counterparts on this. And he said that the president, President Donald Trump, called both him and Bessent last night to share kind of what he wanted out of a potential deal. Listen to how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMB. JAMIESON GREER, U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE: President Trump played a role in this. We had a call with him last night. We had specific guidance from him. We shared it with our Chinese counterparts. And without his leadership and the leverage he provides, we would not have been able to conclude the deal today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, John, if this deal is actually struck, it would be the culmination of a really years-long process now of trying to figure out what to do about TikTok. You mentioned it, but the president has now pushed back a self-imposed deadline multiple times on trying to reach a deal with China on TikTok to either, you know, sell part of it, divest part of it to the United States so that it can continue operating within the U.S. [09:20:08]

And this has definitely been a big goal of President Donald Trump. He often talks about TikTok is helping deliver him voter young voters in his election in 2024, but it was also something that, as you mentioned, a majority of people in Congress had voted to ban. It was signed off by former President Joe Biden if a deal with the United States on divesting most of TikTok did not come through.

All to say this has been a long time coming. We have to see what the details actually look like, but the president is very optimistic about this.

BERMAN: Yes, we need to know who's going to own it, right? We need to know who in the United States here is going to own it, which seems like the big part of the deal.

Alayna Treene at the White House covering all these developments, thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: That's a good question, one that should be answered in all of this.

Coming up for us, Memphis could be next as President Trump's target to crack down on crime. Will they see National Guard troops heading in? Do they want them? Can they stop them?

And is college worth it? The rising costs and increase in non- traditional career paths has a lot of high school students questioning their future and questioning their path.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:00]

BERMAN: All right. This morning, Memphis is bracing for the potential arrival of the National Guard as the Trump administration steps up efforts to crack down on crime in major cities across the country.

The Memphis mayor, Paul Young, told CNN he's been talking with Tennessee's governor about getting help from the FBI, DEA and ATF, but he is not happy about a National Guard deployment. The mayor of Shelby County, which includes Memphis, Mayor Lee Harris, is saying much the same, and Mayor Harris joins us now, thank you so much for being with us.

Why don't you want to see the National Guard in Memphis?

MAYOR LEE HARRIS (D-SHELBY COUNTY, TN): Well, thanks for having me and good morning. I think that the National Guard here in Memphis will hurt this community, but also our country. I think it will compromise many of our rights. We'll have folks without training interacting with our citizenry, and there's a chance that that will compromise our due process rights.

At the same time, the right to travel will not be unfettered because in D.C. we know they set up checkpoints and I don't think we want to see those kinds of things in Memphis and Shelby County. We don't want to see checkpoints, armored vehicles, individuals with semi-automatic weapons patrolling our streets, military personnel in fatigues. I think it's really anti-American. I think it defies our traditions and may possibly be illegal.

BERMAN: One of the things that we have, I think, all learned the last six weeks or so with this renewed focus by the administration on crime is we keep talking about the lists of murder rates and violent crime rates in the U.S. city by city, because the president up until now had been looking at cities in states led by Democrats. Of course, Memphis is a city and a state led by a Republican. But we can see on the list here, Memphis is top of the list in terms of a violent crime rate, also I think typically in the homicide rate also. I mean, doesn't Memphis need some help?

HARRIS: Well, it turns out, John, that the most famous place for crime in America right now is Utah, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County. And I don't want the president to send military troops there either, but the governor based on his statement says that the police force there is ineffective. We saw the most high-profile murder we've seen in months, the murder of Charlie Kirk take place in that state, and we're not sending troops there because we know that the troops will not stop crime. Instead, what troops do is they suppress activity. In other words, individuals stay at home. They don't go to Grizzly games, they don't go to restaurants, and so that reduced activity leads to reduced conflict and temporarily reduced crime.

BERMAN: Mayor Harris, I mean, obviously the focus on cities across the country was taking place well before the horrific murder of Charlie Kirk in Utah. What do you think the issue is in Memphis? Why are the rates as high as they are there?

HARRIS: Well, crime is not going to be solved by something that fits on a bumper sticker, and I know that's hard to hear. People don't want to hear that. They just want to hear more cops and think that that's going to bring down crime. The reality is we need more cops for sure. We need more partnership with the ATF, the DEA and so forth, other domestically trained law enforcement agencies. But overall, crime is a complex issue that's going to require us to dig down into the root causes. I know that's hard. I know that's a long-term proposition, but that's the truth.

BERMAN: Mayor Harris, what's the level of communication been between, I suppose, your county government and the federal government in terms of what federal presence there will be?

HARRIS: Well, there could be a lot more transparency and a lot more communication. I think most of us here, in fact, all of us here, learned about this federal order to send troops and personnel, and according to the president, whoever else he needs, the -- you know, a televised interview. And so that's not the right way to conduct operations, particularly operations as seriously as this one.

I mean, we are on the precipice of the 250th anniversary of this country, a country founded based on freedoms. And all of a sudden we have a mercurial president who makes orders from the hip that affects all of us and compromises our democratic traditions and a lot of our constitutional rights, in my opinion.

BERMAN: Mayor Lee Harris from Shelby County, Tennessee, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. Kate?

[09:30:00]

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning. President Trump is lashing out at New York's Governor Kathy Hochul after her endorsement of Democratic Mayoral Nominee Zohran Mamdani.