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Trump Files $15 Billion Defamation Lawsuit Against New York Times; Pam Bondi Says Hate Speech Crossing Into Threats of Violence Isn't Protected; Hollywood Icon Robert Redford Dies at 89; Officials to Lay Out Charges in Charlie Kirk Shooting Soon. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired September 16, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

JEFF ANGELO, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: -- started to reign Pam Bondi back in and why she had to clarify today that they're looking into investigation of threats of violence. That's a whole different concept than hate speech.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Yeah, incitement, violence, that's a different category. Ron, how are you seeing this disagreement within the Republican Party?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND BLOOMBERG OPINION COLUMNIST: I think it is a reflection of the larger truth that in many ways, the fundamental impulse of the second Trump administration is not so much conservative as it is quasi authoritarian. It's not really about -- taking ownership positions in companies, censoring speech, these are not positions that conservatives have traditionally espoused, but it is consistent with a view of accumulating as much power in the executive over all elements of society and weakening the ability of those opposed to him to resist him.

So I actually think her impulse -- her first impulse as is -- people describe a gaff in Washington, is when you say what you really mean. I think that her first answer was actually more reflective of kind of the underlying compass of this administration.

KEILAR: Often, I think the first thing people say, not always, but sometimes you do get that impression. Jeff, I wonder what you think of that, especially considering the president filed a $15 billion defamation lawsuit against The New York Times last night. This morning, you heard what he said to Jonathan Karl of ABC News, saying maybe they'll go after you in response to this question about Bondi's assertion on hate speech. What do you think?

ANGELO: I think that often the president takes things very personally and, therefore, if you've crossed him, if you say something negative about him, he gets very angry and in your face about that. I do agree that if this is actually going to be followed up on principle, then conservatives ought to call the president and the administration out on that. I think there are a lot of things that this administration is doing that conservatives support, but obviously it's a violation of longtime principle if you're going to go after your political opponents. This is something that we conservatives definitely, derided during the Obama administration. We thought his administration was going after conservative groups. So, it's now not the time to say, well, we're going to retaliate by doing the thing that we said we hated in the first place. It's time to stick to your first principles and say, this is not something that the government ought to be doing.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Ron Pennsylvania Democratic Governor, Josh Shapiro held an event today and sort of talked about the state of discourse in the United States. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO, (D-PA): -- not all forms of political violence and making clear it is all wrong. That shouldn't be hard to do. Unfortunately some from the dark corners of the internet all the way to the Oval Office want to cherry pick which instances of political violence they want to condemn. Listen, doing that only further divides us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Do you think messages of unity and sort of positivity like that are breaking through right now, Ron?

BROWNSTEIN: I think ultimately, most Americans, Boris, don't want to live this way. They don't want to live at this elevated level of hostility in kind of camps -- hostility arrayed camps against each other with this increasing reality of political violence from both ends of the political spectrum. Most Americans don't want to live that way.

Now, can you be heard with a message that kind of calls on all of us to kind of step back from the battlements? It's hard in this point (ph) because as Josh Shapiro talked about it, and I watched that appearance, often it is the most divisive messages that get amplified the loudest, and the person with the loudest megaphone is the president. And you can't overstate how profoundly President Trump is departing from what we have seen from other national leaders at moments of -- like this in the past, moments of this kind of tension and tragedies, when presidents have tried hardest to speak to and for the entire country, he's not doing that.

He's governing at this moment as the leader of a faction, not the leader of a nation. And that does add to the strains that we are facing.

KEILAR: Jeff, what did you think about what you heard Governor Shapiro say there?

ANGELO: Well, I think that the answer is much bigger than what our politicians are saying. This morning, it was ironic that there was a suspect that made an appearance in court, who shot and killed the CEO of a healthcare company. By the way, that CEO is from a little town called Jewell, Iowa. I think as a society, we're continuing to rationalize that it is OK to commit violence against people with whom we disagree. I think that when I immerse myself in social media as a talk show host, and there's a lot of social media these days beyond what politicians are talking about that say, oh, I really owned my opponent or watched this person get humiliated or watched this person stunned into silence by his opponents.

[13:35:15]

And we're getting a lot of emotional satisfaction by people getting what's coming to them. I think that's a real sickness in our society in general, and I think it's beyond what politicians are talking about. I think ultimately, we as a culture have to say we're not deriving any emotional satisfaction from people getting what they deserve.

I do agree with Ron. I think this is really exhausting for all of us to have to go through this outrage every single day. And I hope people of goodwill will rise up and say, look, we can't live this way continuously.

SANCHEZ: We certainly hope so. Jeff Angelo, Ron Brownstein, appreciate you both. Thanks for sharing your perspectives. So, tributes are pouring in after the death of Robert Redford. Up next, we're going to talk to someone who knew what it was like to work with the Hollywood icon. Oscar-winning Director, Barry Levinson joins us after a quick break.

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[13:40:21]

KEILAR: Hollywood is in mourning today over the death of legendary Actor and Director, Robert Redford. The 89-year-old died at his home in Utah surrounded by loved ones, according to his publicist. He starred in several iconic films like 1969's " Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" alongside Paul Newman. The two would reteam for the 1973 film "The Sting." The movie would win Best Picture and garner Redford's first Oscar Nom. Redford would star in other classics like "Jeremiah Johnson". And then there's 1976, "All the President's Men" where he would portray Washington Post Reporter Bob Woodward.

He would finally win his first Oscar in 1980, but not for acting. Instead, it was for directing the film "Ordinary People." Then of course, there's his portrayal of baseball player Roy Hobbs in the film, "The Natural." My next guest directed Redford when he starred as Roy Hobbs in the 1984 film. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining me now to remember Redford's career and legacy is Oscar-winning Director, Barry Levinson. That moment in that film, Barry, is really something, and I think it's going to evoke something for a lot of people as they're thinking of Robert Redford today. How are you, someone who directed him in just one of his iconic roles, reflecting today on his life and his passing?

BARRY LEVINSON, DIRECTOR: He was an extraordinary person. Really, really remarkable in a lot of ways. I mean, he was a great actor. He did terrific work as a director, as an environmentalist in so many different ways. He was an extraordinary person. I mean, and an eccentric in the best use of the word.

KEILAR: I love that. And he famously did all of his batting in "The Natural," right? Tell us about that and how he prepared for the role and what it was like to direct him.

LEVINSON: Well, I mean, he was a natural athlete because there was always these things. Well, could he actually do those? He was terrific in the outfield. He could -- he was fast. He was agile, and he could -- and he could really hit. So all of that was him. In fact, a couple times he was supposed to strike out and then, he'd hit a home run just for the -- just for the fun of it. But, he was quite an athlete. I mean, so it wasn't like we were using some stunt double to handle certain things. He did every -- all of that is all Redford.

KEILAR: Which I imagine is really helpful. And I found it so interesting that Glenn Close said earlier this year that Robert Redford was her best onscreen kiss ever. And Redford had this incredible way of creating this kind of electric chemistry with his co-stars, whether it was Michelle Pfeiffer or Jane Fonda. How did he do that? What was his secret?

LEVINSON: I wish I knew.

(LAUGH)

LEVINSON: There was -- he had a -- he had a quality about him that was extremely engaging. It's hard to describe somebody that has that ability in so many ways. I mean, he could -- he could connect to an individual very, very quickly and was always rather interesting saying things that you'd say, well, that's a really interesting thought. I mean, he took a real gamble with me. I mean, this, "The Natural" is only the second film I ever did. I only did "Diner" beforehand. And we got together and he was interested in my work and that's how the film came about.

So, it was a huge gamble on his behalf to have this one-time director suddenly stepping into a film that was as big, as extravagant as a fable that it was. So, it was a -- he took a real risk with me and I'm forever grateful.

KEILAR: Clearly, he was a good judge of talent, right? And he was a good judge of maybe what that film would become.

[13:45:00]

And he also sat in the director's chair himself, right? I mentioned he took down -- took home the Oscar for "Ordinary People." He created the Sundance Institute, best known for its annual film festival. You talked about him kind of being this eccentric in the best way. What has his impact been more broadly on the film industry? LEVINSON: Well, I mean, to think that he won an Academy Award as a director, and he was a huge star at that point. And his -- he had an eclectic interest in so many different things. So that I -- it shows up in his work. And yet at the same time, there was an easiness about him. It wasn't like this kind of intense pushing or whatever. He was very easy about how he would work and manipulate, and I think in all of his work with his actors, certainly on "The Natural" that he had a chemistry with all of the different people in a way that worked and supported the film.

So -- and at the same time, there was this extravagance about him. I remember, we were -- it was with Diana and I and Redford, and we were going to the airport to go over to Fishers Island. And then he stopped the car and got out and there were some flowers out in --

(LAUGH)

LEVINSON: -- out in the landscape out there. And he was picking daisies and things, and then we're watching, what's going on, and then he brought them back and he gave it to Diana. And then we just headed to the airport. And it was just this spontaneous thing that he saw this pasture of these flowers and somehow he had to stop and pick flowers.

(LAUGH)

LEVINSON: It's a fascinating, engaging individual that would do something like that.

KEILAR: That's a fascinating moment indeed. And Barry, thank you so much for sharing that with us and giving us a glimpse into what you know of Robert Redford. We really appreciate it today.

LEVINSON: Well, thank you.

KEILAR: Barry Levinson, thank you. And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:52:04]

SANCHEZ: We are standing by to hear the formal charges against the man accused of murdering Charlie Kirk. Prosecutors in Utah are holding a news conference ahead of these suspected shooter's first court appearance and CNN's Josh Campbell is following the developments joining us now live. Josh, walk us through what we are imminently expecting to hear and also what investigators still have to sort out.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Boris, in dealing with these charging documents, we always try to manage expectations, and that is because authorities only have to put in enough information to hold the suspect in furtherance of the murder charges that we were expecting. In fact, when I was writing search warrants and swearing them out, it was typical to include a line in there to the judge saying, this does not comprise everything that we know about this case. But this case is unusual because the FBI director has already been out there publicly laying out a lot of the evidence. It appears to be strong. There's obviously the video surveillance footage from at the scene where Charlie Kirk was killed. The FBI director also said that they had matched DNA from the suspect on items that were located near the firearm that was recovered. Couple that with witness statements that they have from family members, again, it appears to be a strong case. We can expect some of that to be in this document.

One thing we are hearing from the FBI director who was testifying just a short time ago in the Senate is that authorities still have a lot of work to be done, specifically investigating an online communication platform called Discord, that the alleged suspect here had apparently used. The FBI director telling Congress that the agents are currently working to interview over 20 people who may have been in contact with that suspect. And that is to try to glean any information about whether anyone else may have known what was about to transpire, again, as they try to work to get to that motive.

There are a couple things that they can do to try to do that. We know that in these cases, they try to seize any devices of a suspect. So they may have that end of the chat, they may be able to go to the company as well to get any kind any of records. But then finally, one thing investigators always try to look at, anyone cooperating who may have known what the suspect was up to, even if we're talking about messaging that can be encrypted at times. If you have someone who will cooperate, who is party to a particular conversation, that is someone who FBI agents will certainly want to interview. So a lot we're waiting to glean and as you mentioned, we're waiting for those charging documents here coming momentarily.

SANCHEZ: Josh Campbell, please keep us updated with what you see. Any minute, formal charges are expected to be announced in the killing of Charlie Kirk. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:59:33]

SANCHEZ: At any moment, formal charges are expected in the killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk and what prosecutors are about to say could soon clarify a lot about a potential motive. The suspect is also set to make his first court appearance just a short time from now. CNN's Ed Lavandera is live force at the news conference in Provo, Utah. Ed, what do you expect to hear?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are expecting the County Attorney, Jeff Gray to appear here shortly, any second now, actually. And I'm told that he will be flanked by the team of prosecutors who will be leading the case against 22-year-old Tyler --