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Kirk Shooting Suspect Charged With Aggravated Murder; Prosecutor To Seek Death Penalty Against Kirk Shooting Suspect; Sen. Peter Welch (D-VT) Discusses About Charlie Kirk's Shooting. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired September 16, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TIM WENINGER, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME WHO RESEARCHES SOCIAL MEDIA & VIOLENCE: And now, I think it's pretty clear that this person was -- their political persuasion, the other political persuasion is going to be rallying around and circling the wagons and saying that, no, they got us, I'm worried, and I desperately hope that it doesn't come to -- that there's some retribution happening in response, but that's the conversation that's happening right now online, unfortunately.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It's very interesting and certainly pertinent to this. You can tell from the text messages of the alleged shooter with the roommate here.

If you all could stand by, we're just going to reset so that folks know where we are, because so many developments have just happened here.

Just moments ago, Utah prosecutors listed out the charges that have now been filed against Charlie Kirk's suspected killer. The Utah County Attorney's saying he will be seeking the death penalty after walking through each of the seven counts, including aggravated murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF GRAY, UTAH COUNTY ATTORNEY: I am filing a notice of intent to seek the death penalty. I do not take this decision lightly, and it is a decision I have made independently as County Attorney, based solely on the available evidence and circumstances and nature of the crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The attorney then going on to read aloud a text message exchange the suspect allegedly sent his roommate, who he was in a romantic relationship with, the suspect in that exchange allegedly admitting to the killing, saying, quote, "I had enough of Kirk's hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."

Let's bring in CNN's Josh Campbell.

Josh, walk us through some of what was revealed.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, just an incredible press conference there with compelling details laid out by prosecutors there in Utah. Now, of course, they stipulate, as prosecutors always do, that these are allegations that someone is innocent until actually found guilty by a court, by a jury, or by some type of plea. But you look at this evidence that was just laid out. I mean, this is very strong from a law enforcement perspective.

Prosecutors talked about various things, including the forensic evidence that they were able to obtain from the shooter, etchings that were on bullet shell casings. There's obviously the surveillance footage that was found at the scene as well, where you see the suspect there then attempting to flee the scene.

Interestingly, we're also getting some insight on the role that the suspect's own family played into actually leading to his apprehension. We've been reporting previously on the suspect's father reaching out to law enforcement. What we're learning now from this charging document is that the suspect's mother was instrumental here. In fact, she actually, according to prosecutors, saw an image that was broadcast out on the news of the suspected gunman, believed that that could have been her son, and then consulted with her husband, that ultimately leading them to confer with the suspect, and then him going and actually turning himself in.

So again, just extremely compelling evidence here laid out by prosecutors. We're still waiting to determine whether or not he actually has representation from an attorney. Of course, that is something that we always want to note to determine whether he has comment.

Interestingly, Boris, as prosecutors laid out their case, and in this charging document, there's a really chilling exchange between the suspect and his roommate, who was also described as his romantic partner. Take a listen here to what Utah prosecutors just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAY: Robinson: "I am still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but I got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you."

Roommate: "You weren't the one who did it, right?"

Robinson: "I am, I am, I'm sorry."

Roommate: "Why?"

Robinson: "Why did I do it?"

Roommate: "Yes."

Robinson: "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Really chilling there, just actually reading that transcript, having the prosecutor actually verbalize it. One thing we're learning is that the roommate is cooperating with authorities, although the suspect himself is not providing information, but you just look at the totality here. Obviously appears to be a strong case at this point.

The final thing I'll note is that we heard a short time ago from the FBI director who was testifying in front of the Senate. He noted that the investigation is not yet over. In fact, authorities are still working to interview over 20 individuals who may have been in contact with this suspected shooter on the online messaging platform, Discord. That is something authorities are trying to determine. Was there anyone else who may have known what was about to transpire? Is there anyone else who may have known what the possible motivation may have been here?

[15:05:04]

Of course, you just look at that text exchange between the suspected gunman and his romantic partner. He actually describes his animus towards Charlie Kirk. Again, authorities still have a lot of work to do to try to unearth exactly what was happening. Is there any other information out there that they may be able to glean as they continue to build this case, guys?

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. And the county attorney there asked about what Patel had said in that hearing.

Josh, if you could stand by for us.

Andy, I want to bring you back in to talk about something. I mean, just the unimaginable situation of the families involved here. The Kirk family, of course, but then also just what we learned about what Robinson's family went through here. And I wonder what you think about kind of the wherewithal of the parents as they're grappling with the idea that this may be their son. And then the father asks his son to send him a photo of the rifle and Robinson doesn't respond. I mean, that must be the moment where they are realizing, yes, this may be our son.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. This is just tragedy on so many levels. So, I mean, first and foremost, we think first about the Kirk family. Charlie Kirk lost his life. His family has been destroyed. His supporters and friends all over the country are still mourning his loss and they will for quite some time.

But this information is really the first really detailed look that we've gotten. We knew the family played a role here, but the details we get are just heartbreaking. So, this mother and father, as you mentioned, the mother recognizes her son from those photographs. Of course, she did, right? That's why we put the photographs out. We want someone like your mother to see that because your mother's always going to know a picture of you.

And they immediately get involved. She raises her concerns with her husband. He gets involved. He makes that request to the son. He's thinking that he may have used the grandfather's gun. So, in an effort to ask him, but not in a way that would put his son on the defensive, he says, hey, just show me a photograph of grandpa's gun because he wants to know where his stuff is at and who has what. And, of course, the son doesn't reply because he can't take a photograph of the gun. He doesn't have it anymore.

And then we go through those details of the son coming over to the house and they connect him with a friend who is a retired deputy. These are two parents who know that they are handing their son over. They're encouraging him to turn himself into a process that might result in his death. I mean, they will never, ever get over this. They'll carry the thoughts of this around forever.

But let's remember that Southwestern Utah, St. George, Washington County, where these things took place, this is a very conservative community of God-fearing spiritual people. These are people who live their religion in a very visceral and real way every day. You can only imagine that these parents felt that they were doing the right thing spiritually and as citizens of this country. And it's such a brutal thing to have to do as this young man's parents.

He went from outstanding high school student, four-year college scholarship award winner to being on his way to face a death penalty for allegedly committing a political assassination. It's just stunning. It's such a - it's just a tragedy of epic proportions.

SANCHEZ: Laura, where do you put the odds that there is some kind of plea deal that evades the death penalty for this suspect?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Probably the negative numbers. I mean, this -- you have the prosecutor saying that he independently assessed that the death penalty was warranted given the nature of the evidence and the crime itself. You've got tremendous pressure even outside of his own independence on this very issue. And the nature of the evidence as it stands right now.

And again, I'm always cautious as a prosecutor, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. There's already emotion. There's already going to be emotion practices. He doesn't even have a lawyer that we know is assigned to him at this point in time. There's a lot of things that could come into play.

But one of the reasons that prosecutors often offer plea agreements is to save resources. You might think of it as the open and shut case. Why are we bothering to even phone it in? But the reality is you save a tremendous amount of resources financially, emotionally for the community and beyond -- the focus from beyond about it, if the person fesses up, agrees to plead guilty.

But they often want leverage. They want to say, if I agree to do this, you got to give me something in return. From what is presented, at least at this preliminary stage, this defendant has no leverage to make any demands about the death penalty otherwise, particularly if you're able to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt even before that.

[15:10:08] And I want to point to another thing here, because we learned about

these text messages. But also, there was a photograph taken where the roommate says that he looked under the keyboard and found a note that said, "Well, got a text that said, Robinson said, drop what you were doing, look under my keyboard. Under it, it said a note, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it."

Then, the text exchange occurs that we hear so much about in terms of the questioning about what, you're joking, right, and beyond. See, there's a photograph of that note apparently. You have some of this evidence all played out. And again, the defendant's statements come into evidence or not somehow put away as hearsay.

But all the different hurdles that normally you have in a case, the identity. You've got a mother looking at the surveillance and saying, that's my son. Turning to her husband and saying, isn't that our son? Essentially saying, it is our son. And I don't believe that you were homesick as you told your mother. I want to see a photo of the gun that is so unique in nature that I believe one of our fathers gave to you as a gift and it's in turn used.

Another aspect of it, well, the person's not talking. So how do I know what they actually did or not? Well, you've got the words leaping from the page of the text messages and beyond. And you've got people who are already cooperating.

But one thing that Director Kash Patel alluded to through our statement, through our own Josh Campbell about a statement from the FBI director, the fact that this was planned, oh, about a week in advance, according to this person's own statements, tells me that they've got a week's worth of communications and people to find.

Just knowing about a crime or knowing about somebody's statement, there's not actually this overwhelming legal requirement that you have to stop one from occurring. However, and it's a big however, if anything you have done or engaged in smacks of conspiratorial behavior, smacks of sanctioning the conduct, planning in any way, having an opportunity to stop a crime from happening and choosing for other reasons not to because you want to see it completed in some way, you've got different issues as a potential co-conspirator or otherwise.

So, they're going to comb through all the communication and all the different people.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: And that's why he said - the county attorney said, right, like, that is all still ongoing. I mean, I noticed not only did he say he'd been planning it a bit over a week, I believe in his words in the text message. But then, later in the text exchange, he says to his roommate, remember how I was engraving bullets?

COATES: Yes.

CHALIAN: It's like, I don't know when that took -- we don't have the timeline of when he's trying to recall the engraving of bullets, but it seems that it was something that the roommate, at least Robinson thinks so, was aware of that he was doing. I do -- can I ...

SANCHEZ: One question, Laura, just to ....

COATES: You know, to be clear as my lawyer, as my mind, I'm not suggesting any of these people are conspirators.

CHALIAN: No, yes, I got you. But it's wise to ...

COATES: The investigation has to still be in infancy. Go ahead, excuse me.

CHALIAN: So, I also heard the county attorney say that in the charge and in the Utah code is the notion of regarding Charlie Kirk's political expression, that it was a political assassination. And that's part of the code of this aggravated murder charge that they added here. He said, we have Robinson's own words, but we also have the mother's words in describing some of the political activity of her son.

And I'm curious to know from you, Laura, like -- so when it says here, the mother explained that over the last year or so, Robinson had become more political, started to lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights oriented. Is the mother's assessment of that material here in some way? Because that -- the sort of the pro-gay and trans rights oriented or more to the left, that's not necessarily clear in Robinson's own words in the text exchange.

COATES: To me, what is the more compelling statement if you're the prosecutor to use your kind of a hierarchy of evidence are the text message in which he talked about the hate. And he said, I had, when he asked by the roommate, why did I do it? Yes, quote, "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out." And then he got -- talks about that.

To me, that's a statement that goes

much more to the idea of perhaps the ideology that he, as this suspect, believes was being espoused by Charlie Kirk. Now ...

CHALIAN: There's no clear evidence.

COATES: ... the -- yes, the ...

CHALIAN: It's total -- crystal clear ...

COATES: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- he assassinated Charlie Kirk because he disagreed with Charlie Kirk's views, right? That I think is crystal clear here. I was just wondering how much the mother's sort of assessment of her son's politics plays into an actual trial.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Yes. COATES: I think it's helpful to buttress the claims that are otherwise

there, but none of this will be viewed in a vacuum, particularly when you have very compelling statements from the actual person's own mouth. But again, you know, normally when you're prosecuting a case, you don't want the mother to take the stand. You don't want, you don't want -- if you're a defense counsel, same thing, because they often will give very gratuitous statements because they're mothers, right? They want to be the person to say, not my baby, never in a million years.

[15:15:06]

Here, you've got a mother who saw the images, and said, I think that's him, questioned him directly, didn't believe the answer, so credibility of the defendant goes into play. Asks her husband about it. He also doesn't believe him, and it goes as far as to say, I need to actually see the gun, not just where you were that night.

All of these things undermine what normally are the most disadvantageous statements of a mother or a parent.

KEILAR: Very good points. Tim, to you, just that passage in the text that David is highlighting here, talk to us a little bit about this. We're talking about the engraving bullets because Robinson says, the messages are mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulge, UwU (ph), I think it might've been OwO, but whatever, on Fox, I might have a stroke. Talk to us a little bit about online radicalization, what you are seeing in these messages. You know, just your thoughts on that.

WENINGER: Yes. So, these are all -- these four messages are, well, the first three especially, are very common online tropes. They're memes, they appear all over the internet in funny, in lighthearted, in sometimes conservative and liberal, it doesn't matter, they're everywhere. And I do want to kind of think a little bit about kind of the parents, kind of going back to that.

My heart breaks for the parents in this particular case. I have a teenage son myself and I want nothing more for him than to have friends in the community of -- for which he can bond with and get along with and share discussions with. And what this person did, the shooter, the alleged shooter, was he found that community online and then that trickled down into a specific group where he was discussing this. And then what I want to learn more about is if what else was kind of discussed in those Discord chats, in those group chats, because that could paint a much, maybe a more vivid picture about how this came to be.

But like I said, my heart breaks for the parents. It's a tragedy for them and of course for Charlie Kirk. But as a father of a teenage son myself, I want to know that my son is -- has a community and a group, and I want to know, and every parent shares that same kind of affection for their family.

And when your son or daughter is online or on their phone messaging, you're hoping that it's messaging with people who are, you know, good people, not planning murders. And in this particular case, my heart breaks for them and what they're going through.

KEILAR: I think it's one of the big concerns of parenting these days is, are you in on the kind of conversations that are happening? Because a lot of them are happening behind figuratively closed doors, as certainly some of them were here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, thanks so much to our panel. We're going to take a quick break. Much more in our breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:38]

KEILAR: We are continuing our coverage of the charges that were just announced that the suspect in the Charlie Kirk murder case is now facing. The Utah County attorney's saying he will be seeking the death penalty after he walked through each of the seven counts, including aggravated murder.

CNN's Evan Perez is with us now.

Evan, what did you hear in the evidence laid out by the prosecutors? There was a lot of it.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there was a lot of it, Brianna. And you know, one of the things that I think if you read the charges, if you see -- if you read the court documents in the filing here, you see these messages with the roommate, and I think those are very, very important.

First of all, what it indicates is along the lines of what we've been reporting, which is that the roommate has -- was not involved in this, from all appearances, did not know that the alleged shooter had gone to carry out this assassination.

And also, the other thing that sticks out is the amount of conversation that's going back and forth that indicates that the alleged shooter planned to get away. He wanted to go back and pick up the gun. He went somewhere to change his clothing, and then with -- had plans to go back and pick up the gun so that he could try to make a getaway, and that he, you know, was very concerned that his grandfather's gun, and he would -- how would he -- going to be able to explain to his dad that this gun, which is a relic, something that's a curio weapon from, I believe, 1937, almost 90 years old, that he wouldn't be able to have it again, and how he would be able to explain that to his father, because the gun had been given to him as a gift.

These are all things that really come across in these text messages between Kirk and his roommate, a person who apparently he was in a relationship with. All of that, of course, underpins the -- that this investigation shows a person who appears to have radicalized, perhaps recently.

Certainly, the mother says in her talking to law enforcement that he turned towards a political left in more recent times. And so, again, what -- it really -- it makes it a more nuanced picture of who this alleged shooter is.

KEILAR: Yes. Evan, thank you so much for that. Boris?

[15:25:06]

SANCHEZ: Joining us now to discuss is Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont. He sits on the Judiciary Committee, where FBI Director Patel testified earlier today.

Senator, thank you so much for being with us. Before we get into the testimony of the Director, I am curious to get your reaction to these charges we just learned about in Utah for the suspected murderer of Charlie Kirk, specifically that the suspect targeted Kirk for his political expression.

SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Well, that's horrible. That's absolutely horrible. I mean, there is absolutely no place for political violence. And whether you come at it from a left-wing or right-wing perspective, the act of violence is an act of cowardice. So, all of us who are involved in politics with fierce disagreements, we have to remember that the folks we disagree with are our opponents, but they're not our enemies.

But I condemn absolutely any act of violence, whether it's motivated by left-wing or right-wing ideology.

SANCHEZ: What is your response to those -- like President Trump and others in the administration, that have said that the domain of political violence in recent years has largely been on the left and pointing to members of your party?

WELCH: You know, I don't go there. The person who commits the violent act is the one who should be held accountable. And all of us who are in public life, and actually all citizens, with their fierce commitment to their point of view, should be presenting that point of view with some respect to the people they disagree with.

I don't think it really helps us to be saying this is a left-wing or right-wing thing. We can go through lots of examples where pretty sick individuals, cowardly individuals, justify violence because of their point of view.

SANCHEZ: Senator, on the Kirk investigation, you said earlier that you believe that Director Patel, quote, "blew it." There's a suspect in custody right now. There is forensic evidence. We heard much of it, allegedly connecting him to the crime. So how did Patel blow it?

WELCH: Well, he gave an announcement that gave assurance to folks, we're all desperate for assurance, that the shooter was caught. That was essentially it. It was about -- that was 20 -- they had the wrong person, not the right person. And he gave that statement 27 hours before that person was caught.

So, I'd like to give a lot of credit to FBI folks and to state and local law enforcement, but he did blow it when he basically led us to believe that the person who committed the crime was in custody when, in fact, it was 27 hours later that the real person was.

SANCHEZ: So, you don't agree with the Director's view that he's trying to be as transparent as possible. He said that in -- saying that there was a suspect in custody, that he didn't believe that it was a mistake, but it was an earnest attempt to provide the public with as many details as possible. Do you have any doubt based on that that prosecutors can now secure a conviction?

WELCH: No, I don't. I mean, my problem with Patel is he was rushing to get in the limelight. He was transparent, but he was transparently wrong. And you've got to be right when you're giving out information to the public about a matter of this consequence.

SANCHEZ: And Senator, I want to get your thoughts more broadly, specifically on social media. Utah's Governor Spencer Cox has described social media as a cancer on our society, perhaps cancer, not a strong enough word, he said. Do you think that tech companies should do more to disincentivize inflammatory rhetoric?

WELCH: Well, absolutely. I agree with Governor Cox. I mean, what happens with the social media companies is they defend themselves because they're just putting on the platform what others say. What the social media companies don't acknowledge is that it's their algorithms that then amplify sick stuff. And that sucks people in.

So, it's that amplification that is in service of their business model, where the more clicks they get, the higher they can charge for their advertising. So, I'm in agreement with Governor Cox.

SANCHEZ: You've spent years now trying to pass a bipartisan bill, the Kids Online Safety Act, that would try to create more accountability for social media companies. It has not been successful in becoming law. I wonder whether you think it's more likely that Congress will soon regulate big tech companies or pass some form of comprehensive gun control.

WELCH: No. Well, I think the tech company has got momentum because we've got a lot of Republican support, and that includes Republicans who don't want to do anything that they see would interfere with the Second Amendment.

[15:30:10]