Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Pam Bondi and Free Speech; Bondi Backtracks on Hate Speech; Melania Trump and Kate Middleton Prepare to Meet on World Stage; Gov. Andy Beshear (D-KY) is Interviewed about Kirk Assassination; CNN Podcast Examines Police Misconduct. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 17, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: For allegedly breaking into an SUV in Atlanta over the summer and stealing hard drives with that music. The car had been rented by her choreographer, Beyonce's choreographer, during a "Cowboy Carter" tour stop. That's according to police. CNN obtained a 911 call from an unidentified caller that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have my computers, and it's really, really important information in there. Like, I work with someone who's like, of a high status.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So far, investigators have not found the hard drives or other items that were allegedly taken.

New this morning, the Associated Press projects Democrat XP Lee won last night's special election in the Minnesota state house to fill the seat of slain lawmaker Melissa Hortman. Lee is a former city council member and health equity analyst. He ran against Republican Ruth Bittner, a real estate agent. The special election was to decide who would fill the seat left vacant after the murder of Democratic State Representative Melissa Hortman this summer.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General Pam Bondi is working to walk back now some of her statements about prosecuting hate speech. The AG is now saying that the department will only go after and prosecute statements that incite violence, though that important element was not how she first presented it, saying on a podcast that DOJ would go after anyone for hate speech, could go after anyone for hate speech. Comments that "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board is taking on this morning.

Here's just the first line of the piece from the editorial board, "is a basic understanding of the First Amendment too much to expect from the nation's attorney general?" Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment, of course.

CNN's Harry Enten is here to run the numbers on this.

How are Bondi's comments getting people stirred?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: What a disaster for Pam Bondi and therefore if I'm Donald Trump I'm just going, what the heck is going on here? You know, take a look here. We Google searches for free speech. Get this, up like a rocket, up 186 percent versus the five year average. I went back and looked at every single week. More folks are searching for free speech this week on Google than any week in at least five years. And of course, not surprisingly, who's the top trending topic with free speech? Well, its Pam Bondi, of course. People are taking her comments, looking it up, interested in it. And as you saw from that "Wall Street Journal" editorial, they ain't liking it too much from the left to the right.

BOLDUAN: This also raises, you know, raises the question of what people think of any cabinet secretary when they -- any cabinet member when they get in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. What are people thinking about pam Bondi?

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So, Pam Bondi was already underwater, and I wouldn't be surprised if she goes underwater more. Take a look here. The net popularity of Trump cabinet members. Look who has the lowest number on your screen right here that I could find. Look how far underwater Pam Bondi is at minus 19 points. Now, none of the folks on your screen here are in positive territory, but none of them are as far under water as Pam Bondi at minus 19 points.

Of course, RFK Jr. has been in the news recently too, but he's well above where Pam Bondi is. He's at minus seven points. She is more than ten points more under water than RFK Jr. is. And, of course, he's made a lot of controversial comments. She is, at least by the numbers that I'm looking at, the least liked member of Donald Trump's cabinet. And it ain't even close.

BOLDUAN: And it gets to -- the difference here gets to the focus on the -- and the topics they've been -- how -- the topics they've been taking on. What is it for Bondi?

ENTEN: Yes, OK. I mean what is Pam Bondi probably most associated with before, of course, this whole free speech controversy. Well, of course, it was the Epstein files, which is something that nobody, nobody for the most part, likes how the Trump administration has been handling them. Of course, she's been a key leadership role in this.

I mean, look at this, approval of the Trump admin on the Epstein files. It's just 19 percent, 19 percent of all adults, 67 percent disapprove. Among Democrats, it's 2 percent. Independents, 12 -- 12 percent. And even among Republicans, you can't even get to 50 percent approval.

And, of course, this just goes all the way back, you're building a case step by step by step. Who is the biggest pain in the rear end in the Donald Trump administration for him? Who is he having to answer for oftentimes? Oftentimes it's for Pam Bondi. The free speech situation is just another example of that. And we're just going to have to wait and see where it goes. But at this particular point, there's a reason why Pam Bondi is by far the lowest and the least liked member of Donald Trump's cabinet.

BOLDUAN: And reinforcing the point, if you campaign on something and you promise something over and over again and then you don't follow through with it, people do remember that. Yes.

ENTEN: Exactly right. And, of course, Pam Bondi made some big promises on the Epstein files and could not deliver.

BOLDUAN: Not so far.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now, CNN's senior political commentator Scott Jennings, and Meghan Hays, the former White House director of message planning under President Biden.

And, Scott, when it comes to the attorney general and this issue of speech, to quote the horror movies, the calls are coming from inside the building, as in the conservative movement. I've read -- I've been surprised, frankly, by some of the criticism from Eric Erickson, from Matt Walsh, from other people online saying that what the attorney general is saying here isn't what we want to be hearing.

[08:35:00]

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what she said to start, and where she wound up, are two different things. And she did end up walking it back. That -- that was a good thing.

But there's a reason they're very upset about this and that they're defensive of free speech, is because conservatives, I think, rightly believe that we have been fighting for free speech absolutism because for years it's been the left who's been trying to suppress speech, censor conservatives and take away our voice. And so, when you hear someone adopting sort of the language of the left, even in the heat of a moment, an emotional moment, which this moment over Charlie Kirk is, you have to recognize that and say, we can't go down that road.

So, the reason you saw all these people speaking out is because they know what the fight for free speech means and has meant to the conservative movement over the last few years.

BERMAN: It's a little curious to me, Meghan, why she's been targeted in a way that Vice President Vance maybe has not and others have not. Vice President Vance, in a podcast, basically told people to call their employers or call employers if they saw comments being made about the assassination of Charlie Kirk there. Yet a lot of people seem more focused on Pam Bondi.

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think people are focused on Pam Bondi because she leads the DOJ and she actually has a lot of power, where the vice president does not have a lot of power. He's a supporting character to the president. So, I think that people are worried that if they are doing something on Twitter or saying something, that the DOJ feels is -- is inappropriate or they -- what they consider hate speech, that they could come after them and make a lot of trouble. And I'm glad she walked the comments back. As Scott said, I think that's really important, since it is protected under the First Amendment.

BERMAN: Let's talk about political conventions, which might be happening like tomorrow if all the people involved get their way. President Trump has been musing about the idea of holding some kind of gathering. I guess -- technically, I mean, I guess they could call it a convention. They could call it whatever they want. But, Meghan, to you. The Democrats, I've heard, talk about this as well before the midterms. What would the utility of it be, do you think?

HAYS: I think it's a way to -- to bring the party together to celebrate some of the wins that they've had, to make sure that people are on message and understand what Democrats actually stand for, not what the right or anyone else paints them to stand for. So, I do think it is really -- it's a good thing to do. I do think it is very costly. I'm not sure that's money well spent when we could be out there organizing and -- with boots on the ground. But that's up to the DNC to do. But I do think it is good to reinforce the message that the Democrats want leading into the midterms.

BERMAN: How would you run a convention for the Republicans, Scott?

JENNINGS: Well, look, I agree with Meghan, I think conventions, as a messaging tool, can be extremely powerful. You put your best speakers, your best messengers up on the stage. You get a chance to tell stories, not in three-minute increments, but in long increments.

So, if it were me, I would certainly be highlighting the successes of the Trump policies. You know, here are the people who are winning under the economy. Here are the successes we're having on the border.

I think actually, in 2024, you know, we covered the conventions live here on CNN. The Republican messaging really, and particularly coming after the assassination attempt, it was one of the best handled messaging vehicles I've ever seen. I've been to a bunch of them. Been a delegate to a bunch of them. So, if you could replicate something like that and tell a real story about, we did policy a, here's result b, it could be a great thing and rally your base.

BERMAN: I guess what I don't know or can't quite figure out is, is how it would be different in a midterm environment where historically you have people turning against the incumbent administration. And so maybe some of the biggest people you could put out are the very people that voters might not be as happy with.

JENNINGS: Well, or on the other hand, you put the people out who are the leaders of your party. You have president. You have the vice president. You have the cabinet. You have leaders in Congress. They're the ones that are entrusted with building the Republican policy machine and building the Republican brand. You give them a chance to talk to the American people about what they're doing. You know, look, it's a chance to fly. It's a chance to soar.

BERMAN: Yes.

JENNINGS: And it's also a chance to highlight everyday people who are feeling the impact, positive impacts of a certain policy.

BERMAN: And again, for the Democrats in the midterms, Meghan, when Democrats have run successful midterm campaigns before, it has been having every candidate run their own race in their own way. If you're having a national convention and a national message, does that make it hard for, you know, you know, Jared Golden in Maine to have the same type of message that -- that a more progressive, you know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would have in Queens, for instance?

HAYS: I think a lot of what the Democrats can do in a midterm sort of convention is, is to push back on the narrative that Republicans want. So, making sure that people know that they were fighting to keep Medicaid and to keep kids on food assistance programs and the big, beautiful bill is cutting that. So, I just think that that's the opportunity there to rewrite a message and a narrative that's being pushed against them. But I do think that all politics is local and what these candidates need in their own districts is going to be very important to getting them re-elected and elected.

JENNINGS: Meghan, are you excited about master of ceremonies, Mamdani, at your convention? Because I think it would be amazing for you guys. I'm all -- we're all for it. Just --

HAYS: Are you excited Donald Trump's not on the ballot, so your midterms might not be as successful as they were -- would be if he was?

JENNINGS: Hey, this is why -- this is why I like the convention because he -- one of the biggest challenges of the Republican Party is to convert Trump-only voters into Republicans.

[08:40:05]

Giving them a convention and a president to rally around in the middle of it when they wouldn't normally have it, I think it's a good thing.

BERMAN: We will see if either party follows through on this, and we will see how we'll cover it. That will be exciting.

All right, Scott Jennings, Meghan Hays, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, it's quite the view this morning from the U.K. The British royal family rolling out the carpet to welcome President Trump to Windsor Castle. The president and the first lady joining the king and queen and the prince and princess of Wales for even a carriage procession this morning -- just look at that -- through the Windsor estate toward the castle. Many more events to come for this second state visit there for President Trump, including Melania Trump making a joint appearance with Princess Catherine.

CNN's Betsy Klein tracking this one for us.

And, Betsy, a source told CNN that the first lady has been preparing for this for months. What are you learning?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, Kate. First Lady Melania Trump and Catherine, the princess of Wales, are both private spouses with massive global platforms. And from this morning's arrival ceremony, to an event we'll see tomorrow with scouts, Melania and Kate are going to have multiple joint appearances during this state visit. And that really underscores the United Kingdom's effort to cultivate ties with the Trump family at what's been a very sensitive, diplomatic time.

And this visit also marks a key moment for both women and the roles that they play on the world stage. For the first lady, one source familiar with state visit planning tells me that getting ready for this trip has been a month's long endeavor, as you mentioned, from the selection of gifts, to meticulously studying her counterparts and even deconflicting outfits. And when she's prepping for a visit like this, she'll receive a memo with biographical information about the leaders she'll be meeting, and then a more substantive binder with details about plans for those outings and her counterpart's personal interests.

And it's important to note that the first lady is going to be seen, as we just saw, and not heard at many of these appearances. So, the message that she is sending through her wardrobe choices can be very significant. One White House source tells us she's been planning her outfits, and particularly her dress for tonight's state banquet for months. And we saw her already nod to her British hosts with that Burberry trench coat at her arrival ceremony yesterday. That source, familiar with the planning, says those details can sometimes be exchanged through diplomatic channels. That source telling me, quote, "we were pretty forthright, calling and saying, is she wearing blue today? And what shade of blue is it? And then we would wear navy if she was wearing sky blue." That source said, "we definitely don't want to clash. We want to compliment."

And then for the princess, who's returned to a lighter schedule of engagements last September after scaling back appearances for cancer treatments, this really marks a meaningful milestone for her recovery, as well as a strategic deployment of her star power. And I spoke with the journalist, Elizabeth Holmes, who has chronicled both U.S. politics and the royal family for many years. She noted that there have long been conversations about the relevancy of the monarchy in these times. But right now, she says, they are there to impress, and they do. Holmes says nobody does it like they do, to have the carriage ride, the state dinner, all of the pomp and circumstances that they're a -- a circumstance they're able to provide the Trump's really is a real asset for the United Kingdom, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And we know that one person that has long been impressed of the royal family is Donald Trump.

It's good to see you, Betsy. Thank you so much. So, the remarkable reunion between a Chilian mother and her twin

daughters who were stolen from her more than 40 years ago. We have the details on this.

And a rescue on the water. Two adults and a teenager pulled to safety after their boat capsizes. The story behind this and how they are doing now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:57]

BERMAN: This morning, a happy reunion 45 years in the making. Maria Soto was just 19 when she gave birth in Chile to twin daughters. This was 1979, under the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet. They were stolen from her after a routine doctor's appointment and adopted by an Italian couple. This happened to thousands of babies during Pinochet's reign. In 2020, Soto contacted a Chilean NGO dedicated to helping Chilean parents reunite with their children. And this year a DNA test she uploaded finally got a match with the son of one of her daughters, her grandson. Soon after, a reunion between Soto and her daughters was set up in Chile. The twins speak Italian. Maria speaks Spanish. But you can see there, the reunion needed no translation.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

So, also new this morning, former President Barack Obama is speaking out about political violence in the wake of the murder of Charlie Kirk and pleading for leaders to lead, saying, quote, "regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, what happened to Charlie Kirk was horrific and a tragedy." The former president also raised concerns over the escalating threat of more violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We are certainly at an inflection point, not just around political violence, but there are a host of larger trends that we, you know, have to be concerned about.

I think it is important for us, at the outset, to acknowledge that political violence is not new. It has happened at certain periods in our history. But it is something that it is anathema to what it means to be a democratic country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now for -- to discuss is the Democratic governor of Kentucky, Governor Andy Beshear.

[08:50:03]

Governor, thank you for being here.

And as we look kind of about on this question of leaders leading in the face of this rhetoric and this horrible tragedy, you are a Democrat who has won twice in a state that Donald Trump won by 30 points in the last election. You know what crossing party lines looks like, navigating tough stuff between people of very different beliefs, what is needed. What is your assessment of how President Trump is navigating this?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Well, I think right now leaders have a choice, to condemn political violence and all violence against anyone at any time, full stop, period, or to only condemn violence against people that look like them, sound like them, or believe like they do.

I think President Trump, right now, is missing the mark. Now is a chance to unify the country, to put our humanity above our political parties, to make sure that we are saying very loud and clear that violence against any human being is wrong, and to remind every American that we are all each other's neighbors and what binds us, what -- what makes us united is much more important than the disagreements we may have that should never escalate to something like we saw last week.

BOLDUAN: Governor, one thing that many Republican -- I know many Republican politicians are pointing to is a recent poll as evidence that it is more a left problem than a right problem. A YouGov poll that showed that Democrats were more likely than Republicans to say it's acceptable to celebrate the death of a public figure. The -- 11 percent of Democrats saying always or usually acceptable to celebrate a death of a public figure, compared to six percent of Republicans, though. I mean it really deserves saying that nine percent of Americans said it was acceptable, while 78 percent in this poll said it was unacceptable, just so we can keep it all in perspective here.

But this is what I know many -- many Republican are pointing to is -- this is saying, this is a more left problem than it is a right problem. What do you do with that?

BESHEAR: Again, they have the option to condemn violence, full stop, period, or try to create more of an us versus them that only makes this country boil that much hotter. Now is the chance to have the opportunity for all of the American people, to see that leaders believe that murder is not partizan, it is just wrong.

And when I think about all of the instances of violence we've seen against political figures, you have the murder of Charlie Kirk, you have the murder of the former speaker of the house of Minnesota, you have the firebombing of the Pennsylvania governor's mansion while Josh Shapiro was there, the plan to -- to kill Gretchen Whitmer, the mayor of -- of Louisville, during his campaign three years ago, was -- was shot at in his office.

BOLDUAN: Oh, that's right.

BESHEAR: This -- this occurs across the political spectrum. And the moment that -- that we try to -- to use it for politics is the moment we lose the chance to declare our humanity and to -- and to call on people to -- to be better. BOLDUAN: Also happening today, Governor, the former CDC director, who was pushed out last month, is testifying on Capitol Hill, and expected to lay out that she was fired, she says, for holding the line on scientific integrity. And -- and point to RFK Jr. as being the problem, that -- trying to force her to rubber stamp vaccine recommendations for a panel that he stacked with vaccine skeptics before she'd even seen the science.

As a governor, how important is the CDC to public health in your state? What is pulling back on vaccine recommendations going to mean for the people of Kentucky?

BESHEAR: Pulling back on vaccine recommendations is going to make living in the United States more dangerous for every single American. It's going to make it more dangerous for our kids to go to school or to come home and to see their grandparents. I mean we're just five years removed from a pandemic that in Kentucky killed more people than World War I, World War II, Vietnam and the Korean War put together. And it was a vaccine that got us out of it.

RFK Jr. is not qualified, should not be that cabinet secretary. What he is doing is -- is dangerous. This is an area where we need experts. And again, science is not red or blue, it's just science. That's why we teach it in school. And we need the actual experts that will put it first to -- to lead that cabinet, and certainly the CDC.

BOLDUAN: Yes, these two topics actually do blend -- blend together, as you're saying. It's not left. It's not right. It is just the facts and just science.

It's interesting, I think I saw that you have some travel plans to New Hampshire, which, of course, gets every political reporter's ears to perk up. Joe Manchin was just on and didn't say no when Berman pushed him on if he is -- if he would consider running for president. What are you -- what are you weighing as you consider the question if you should run for president in 2028?

[08:55:03]

BESHEAR: Well, right now I'm trying to be a voice of reason in the chaos, especially after last week, to be a voice of humanity over partisanship. Next year, head of the Democratic Governors Association. We've got a lot of races to -- to run. After that, we're going to sit down, my family and I, and were going to look at whether or not I'm a candidate that could heal this country.

Now, there's a lot that's going to need to be repaired after this administration. But the most important thing to the United States is that we're able to turn down the temperature, to make sure that neighbors aren't yelling at neighbors anymore, to come back together as Americans, to live out that pledge of allegiance, where we pledge that we're not just one nation under God, but the next word is indivisible.

We've got a lot of healing to do. And if -- if I'm a candidate that can do that, then it's something that we will take a close look at. If it's someone else, I don't mind lining up behind them because I care about this country a lot more than I care about any title.

BOLDUAN: Much more to come. Governor, thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

John.

BERMAN: Texas authorities are looking for a suspect they say attacked a 70 year old person using a walker. According to CNN affiliate KTRK, police say the man fell to the ground after the robber took cash from his pocket, about $6. The victim says he was not hurt and did not even know about the video until news crews knocked on his door.

In California, sparks fly during a high-speed chase from a pickup truck that police say was stolen. California highway police chased the suspect on the 405 freeway through L.A. County. Police say the suspect was going 100 miles per hour during the pursuit, even after they threw a spike strip onto the highway that punctured one of the truck's tires. The suspect eventually did give up and surrendered to authorities.

Three people are safe after the Coast Guard rescued them from a capsized boat. The Coast Guard got a call about the vessel off the coast of Sergeant, Texas. Two adults and a child were on board. A chopper lowered a rescue swimmer to help get them onto a Coast Guard rescue boat nearby.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: An infamous police commander is getting a fresh look in a brand-new CNN podcast. The former Chicago police commander, Jon Burge, led a group of officers called The Midnight Crew. For decades they tortured suspects, leading to several wrongful convictions. He eventually served time for this. Now, this three-part podcast premieres today and follows the story of one of those victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James is one of dozens of black men who were picked up and tortured, sometimes into confessions, over two decades by a group of southside detectives who became known as The Midnight Crew.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people who were in a position to stop it, didn't. And that was a conscious decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I lost everything. So, how do you replace that? Twenty-nine years, four months and seven days. I can't get that back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I can't get that back.

Here with me now the host of "Tortured Justice," CNN's Omar Jimenez.

This is pretty remarkable stuff, Omar. How did you first dive into this and find this story? OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: So, this is actually

something that took -- I've been trying to get to a wider audience for almost a decade at this point.

BOLDUAN: Oh.

JIMENEZ: I first came across this story when I was a student at Northwestern, and I was working with the Chicago Innocence Project investigating potential wrongful convictions. And one of the people I worked with was someone who told me about him being tortured in this era in Chicago by police and served three decades in prison for a crime he says he didn't commit. And he was eventually exonerated. And that sort of sent me down this path of figuring out who this police commander was, what was going on. This happened in the '70s, '80s and early '90s. But what brought me back to the story now was that we're in 2025, and there were still people this year trying to get settlements from the city of Chicago and trying to right their lives again for something that happened decades ago at this point.

BOLDUAN: And as you said, one of them, James Gibson, right, is his name.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Yes.

BOLDUAN: He was -- he spent nearly 30 years --

JIMENEZ: Yes.

BOLDUAN: For something he did -- for a wrongful conviction. What is he saying now? Like, what is his message?

JIMENEZ: Yes, right now it's complicated because we met up with him when he got a $14.75 million settlement from the city of Chicago back in June. So, I don't know about you. That seems great, right? You're excited. He told me, this isn't congratulations for him. He is glad to get the money, obviously, to close sort of that chapter of his life. But you can't replace 30 years.

BOLDUAN: Right. I mean how much -- how much money is 30 years of your life, right?

JIMENEZ: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

JIMENEZ: And when he went in, you know, he told me about how his mom was his rock. He was this college student. He had his whole life ahead of him. His mom dies 12 years into his, again, prison sentence, which was much longer. He gets out. And what is this life now? Where is he starting?

And I should mention that this police commander, he did eventually serve prison time but -- but not directly for leading the torture.

[09:00:08]