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Fired CDC Director to Testify; Michael Osterholm is Interviewed About the CDC; Kirk Shooting Suspect Charged; Rep. Jimmy Gomez (D-CA) is Interviewed about a Government Shutdown; Trump Visits the U.K. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired September 17, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Police commander. He did eventually serve prison time but -- but not directly for leading the torture. There was a very creative, legal strategy that federal prosecutors did, that I won't spoil. But if you listen to the podcast, you will see kind of how prosecutors were able to find some accountability here. But it does leave us with the question, what is justice in a situation like this?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: "Tortured Justice."

Omar, great work. It's great to see this -- this side of you. Thank you so much for doing this and coming in.

JIMENEZ: Thanks. Good to see you.

BOLDUAN: You can listen to "Tortured Justice" wherever you get your podcasts.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are standing by to hear from the fired CDC director. Dr. Susan Monarez expected to lay out what happened with Robert Kennedy Jr. before she was fired after less than one month on the job.

It is decision day for the Federal Reserve, and the expectation is the first interest rate cut in months. But this is expected to be one of the strangest hearings we have ever seen.

And an extremely close call for one man at a gas station. A car going, oh, right at a man right there. Somehow missing him, luckily.

Sara is out today. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

We are standing by to hear from the fired former CDC director who lost her job just 29 days into her tenure. Dr. Susan Monarez set to testify before a Senate committee about her clashes with her former boss, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. Ahead of her testimony, she has already said that Kennedy put politics before public health. She also said that Kennedy told her to approve vaccine recommendations without looking at the scientific evidence. CNN obtained a preview of her prepared remarks. She says, in part, "I was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity.

Let's get to CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

What more do we expect from Dr. Monarez?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we'll see if we get some -- some answers to the questions about what exactly happened over that -- that month. As you sort of laid out there, you're hearing two different things. You're hearing Dr. Monarez say basically, hey, she was asked to rubber stamp recommendations from a committee that not only had not even met yet, but wasn't even fully formed yet. And she was also asked to fire people over vaccine policy.

Secretary Kennedy, you know, he was asked about this, as you well remember, John, during those hearings about Dr. Monarez, and here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNED JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said, no. So, if you had an employee who told you they weren't trustworthy, would you ask them to resign, Senator?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: I'm really going to be interested to hear how Dr. Monarez sort of represents what happened there.

She did -- she did talk about this in an op-ed regarding that exchange. And she said -- she said this, "regarding trustworthiness, I cannot define that word for Secretary Kennedy. I made commitments to this committee that I would lead with integrity, transparency and purpose and work with Congress to maximize health outcomes and protect the American people."

So, we'll see, John.

I should just point out, it was not a contentious confirmation for Dr. Monarez. In fact, Secretary Kennedy said that her credentials were unimpeachable. She has a PHD in immunology and microbiology from the University of Wisconsin.

So, we'll see. The headline here is, they want to restore radical transparency. We'll see if that happens, John.

BERMAN: And this is just a huge week in terms of vaccine policy --

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Because the CDC advisory panel meets, Sanjay. What are we expecting there?

GUPTA: I think they're going to make recommendations about specific vaccines. And the ones that we're going to be looking at I think most closely are MMRV, which is measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella, which is chicken pox. The Hepatitis B vaccine. That's -- you know, a lot of people have been talking about that lately. And, obviously, Covid-19 vaccines. Can you get them? How hard is it to get them? Do you need a prescription? I think that's where a lot of the focus is going to be.

I mean this is a health hearing, you know, in so many ways. But I think much of the focus will be on vaccines, John.

BERMAN: And what's the potential impact of whatever they decide?

GUPTA: I -- you know, so, you know, people do listen to these recommendations. First of all, we'll see if the CDC director, who's now acting, then does approve of ACIP's recommendations. But it makes an impact overall on insurance coverage. There are programs in place to -- to pay for children's vaccines no matter what. Will they be affected by this?

And then, you know, John, we're used to this being sort of federal. You know, national sort of policies.

[09:05:00]

Will states adopt their own vaccine policy as a result of this? Those are the things that I'll be looking for over the next couple of days.

BERMAN: It really is going to require an investigation here because big changes could be on the way.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, great to see you. Thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk more about this. Joining us right now is Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

It's good to see you again.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY CENTER: Hey, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, she is expected to essentially say that RFK is putting politics before health. And that she was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity. How serious and significant do you think this statement is coming from now the former CDC director as she's about to testify?

OSTERHOLM: Well, I think as we focus on this single issue, it's very important. But I think there's even a bigger issue here. We're at an inflection point, as we just discussed in a previous segment, in this country. And specifically around public health. We are literally watching public health being destroyed day after day after day with regard to any number of issues, not just vaccines, but general ability to respond to infectious disease outbreaks, to deal with chronic diseases as such. And public health really is at risk right now of losing 50 to 70 years of gain.

BOLDUAN: RFK Jr. -- on one of the issues at hand this week is, as Sanjay was talking about with John, is this vaccine panel that RFK Jr. has basically hand selected. They're going to meet tomorrow and Friday to consider among -- delaying the recommended timing for when children should have the Hepatitis B vaccine. How big of an impact do you think this vaccine advisory panel can have?

OSTERHOLM: Well, I think it can have a very big impact because much of America doesn't quite understand what this all means. What does this advisory committee really tell us. How -- how do we believe them or not believe them. And the bottom line is, is that you can't trust anything that this committee puts out. At this point, for the vast majority of public health in this country. We no longer look to the CDC for factual information, for the directions that we need to go forward to protect all of our citizens in this country.

So, in some ways I'm not suggesting that this is necessary a circus, but, in fact, it is not something that any of us take -- put any credence in.

BOLDUAN: You -- you really -- you really do not think people should trust what comes out of this vaccine advisory panel now?

OSTERHOLM: Absolutely not. It is stacked with anti-vaccine individuals. Even in the very first meeting of -- of an appointment of these anti-vaccine participants several months ago, we saw presentations that were factually, absolutely incorrect. They were all based on what was really an anti-vaccine approach to whether it be influenza vaccines, et cetera. So, at this point, this group has no credibility. And I can tell you that this is really a challenge, because if there was ever a time we need to have an agency that has high credibility based on science is now. And we don't have that.

And it's not just about vaccines (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: But to that point, I was actually just looking at another former CDC director, Rochelle Walensky is also speaking up. She wrote a piece for "Stat News." It's titled "I'm a Former CDC Director. I'm Deeply Concerned About the Future of Vaccines in the United States." And in it she writes, "in a divided America, one point of near- universal agreement remains even today, 92 percent of parents vaccinate their children. Surely, we can all agree we do not want our children to die. But unless action is taken quickly, we may be lured into believing that vaccines are still here, yet they may not be within our collective reach for much longer."

What do you think when she -- that last part caught my attention, "may not be within our reach much longer." What do you think she's so concerned about and do you see it as well? OSTERHOLM: Not only do I see it as well, but back in November of last year I wrote an op-ed piece in "The New York Times" saying, wake up America, it's likely Mr. Kennedy is going to try to take your vaccines from you. And at that point I think many people thought, well, that can't happen. But we're watching that happen. And there's many different ways to do it. One, you can make recommendations that people shouldn't get the vaccine in certain groups. You can make it difficult for payers to provide the resources to support payment of these vaccines. You can even take away the injury compensation program, a program that makes it possible for companies to continue to make vaccines and being covered with liability. There's any number of ways that he is attacking the system right now that is really meant to bring out and under the vaccine programs that we have in this country.

BOLDUAN: Michael Osterholm, thank you for your time.

John.

BERMAN: This morning, new information on the investigation into Charlie Kirk's murder. Prosecutors say they plan to see the death penalty. The charges include aggravated murder. Prosecutors also provided several text messages allegedly sent between the suspect and his roommate. In one exchange the roommate says, quote, "you weren't the one who did it, right?," in reference to Kirk's murder, to which the suspect allegedly replies, quote, "I am, I'm sorry." The roommate then asks why. The alleged answer, quote, "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."

[09:10:07]

Let's get right to CNN's Josh Campbell.

A lot of new information here, Josh.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're right. And, you know, oftentimes prosecutors will note that every defendant is innocent until proven guilty. That said, you look at the evidence that was laid out. This appears to be a very strong case evidence wise. As you mentioned, authorities had unearthed that text exchange between the suspected shooter and his romantic partner in which he actually talks about his animus for Charlie Kirk before this shooting actually took place.

We're also learning that DNA evidence that was found near where the firearm was recovered allegedly matched DNA from the suspect.

And we're also getting just incredible new insight in the role that the shooter's own family played in leading to his apprehension. We've been reporting previously that the father was involved in trying to bring his son to police. We're now learning that the mother here played an instrumental role in seeing the photo of her son in the news media and then working with the family, conferring with the suspected shooter to turn himself in.

So, a lot of new details there. Final point I'll note is that the investigation is not yet over. There is still work to be done, particularly surrounding the suspect's conversations with other individuals ono an online chatroom called Discord.

Take a listen here to FBI Director Kash Patel testifying yesterday in the Senate. He says that this case if far from over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: We're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved in that Discord chat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, very good. I see the public reports that the Discord thread has as many as 20 additional users.

PATEL: It's a lot more than that and we're running them all down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a lot more than 20?

PATEL: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're running all of that to bear.

PATEL: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, more than 20 people here that they are looking into. Again, no indication that there was anyone else involved in this assassination, but authorities have to do their due diligence. That includes interviewing anyone who may have been in communication with the suspect.

It looks like they have, you know, over 20 people they still need to talk to in order to try to unearth what the motivation was exactly, and where the investigation goes, all in an effort to try to build this case, as the prosecution now gets underway.

BERMAN: Yes, more work to do. All right, Josh Campbell, thank you very much for that update.

So, will it be a new day of shouting and finger pointing? We've got new reporting on what we'll hear today from the FBI director on Capitol Hill.

And the most famous Jerry in ice cream quitting his namesake company after he says the brand's parent company stopped him from speaking on social issues.

And home runs, high jinks and some seriously smooth dance moves. How the Savannah Bananas are capturing hearts across the country. Have you seen how they're packing stadiums?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:24]

BERMAN: This morning, concerns rising in Washington about a potential government shutdown. The clock is ticking to pass legislation to keep the doors open and running past September 30th. Republicans have presented a stopgap plan that would last until just before Thanksgiving, but it does seem that Democrats might be digging in for a fight.

With us is Congressman Jimmy Gomez, a Democrat from California.

Congressman, great to see you.

So back in March, then Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer opted not to fight basically, to reach a deal and not shut the government down. What are you hearing from leadership this time?

REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D-CA): Well, I think that leadership is really focused on one thing, stopping the economic and personal financial pain that the American family is experiencing. We've seen prices go up, up and up. Donald Trump has done nothing to actually address it. So, what the leadership is saying, that is, if you want our support on the Senate side and the House side, you need to take care of these enhanced ACA subsidies. If they don't do that, the subsidies, when it comes to families and the ACA on the coverage, on the -- on the exchanges will go up. People's health care premiums go up. That means that they're going to be paying more out of pocket. Anywhere from -- it goes from $250 to $1,800 a month for a family of four. That's outrageous.

So, the leadership is focused on making sure that this economic pain and the financial pain that American families are feeling ends, at least is blunted under this administration.

BERMAN: Yes, what you're talking about is these Obamacare -- enhanced Obamacare subsidies that were passed during the Biden administration. If action is not taken, they expire, which could, depending on how you look at it, lead to a cut in health care benefits for a lot of Americans. You're saying, if an extension is not included, you think that's worth shutting the government down?

GOMEZ: I think that the leadership is what -- that's their position. I think that we have to see what happens. But right now, we're not hearing much from the Senate majority leader, and we're not seeing -- hearing much from the House speaker. So, we have to see what they say. But we're not hearing much from their side of the aisle either.

BERMAN: What do you think about government shutdowns in general? Who wins?

GOMEZ: Well, I think nobody wins in the end. But what we need to do is basically say what our values are. And one of the things that we've seen with the Republicans is, we know where they've -- what their values are. They passed one big billionaire bill that gave massive tax breaks to the highest income earners and corporations, while taking away Medicaid from 17 million people, as well as food assistance.

[09:20:05]

So, it's about values. And one of the things we know is that they talk a lot about family values, but they don't actually value families.

BERMAN: One of the things that's been happening the last week in Congress is a lot of introspection, right? Discussions following the violence that we saw there. And it does make me wonder how much Democrats and Republicans work together and maybe could work together more.

What are you working on with Republicans? What efforts do you personally have where you've reached across the aisle to work with Republican members?

GOMEZ: I'm actually working with a gentleman named Mike Carey, a Republican from Ohio. We have a piece of legislation that will give a tax credit to convert underutilized commercial real estate and office space to housing, because the housing crisis is impacting every state, every community. And we believe that we have to tackle it head on. So, that's just one example where I'm working with people.

I'm also a part of a bipartisan group to tackle the paid family leave issue. We might not agree on that issue on how to do it, but we agree that it is a problem that we have to solve that for the American people.

BERMAN: Do you ever hang out with Republican members in Washington? You know, this is something that used to happen, you know, 30, 40 years ago before people went home every weekend. There -- there used to be collegiality. What about that?

GOMEZ: Do I -- no, not really. I'll be honest with you, I don't really hang out with them. I talk to them in my committee, and that's where I spend most of my time. Outside the -- outside of Congress, it's really work, work, work, or family. So, I don't spend time outside. But I have taken trips where I had interacted with them.

And, you know what, we disagree on a lot of different issues. But here's the one thing, I don't think that any harm should come to any of them. That people should be able to speak their voice, represent their constituents, full throttle, and not be worried if they're going to come home at night or not.

BERMAN: Yes. And I appreciate you being honest with me there. But you do also appreciate why I'm asking, because it is a different time in Congress right now where you don't quite see some of that interaction that you might have seen years ago. There are other reasons for it, but one of the reasons is increased partisanship to be sure. So, I do appreciate the honest answer there.

Listen, back to the shutdown for a moment, if I can. What concerns do you have that it could actually empower President Trump, empower the executive? Because one of the things that could happen is, in a vacuum, with certain things shut down, maybe the president could try to do even more. GOMEZ: Well, the president isn't bound -- has been -- not been bound

by the Constitution or the rule of law. Remember, this guy is federalizing the National Guard and sending in Marines to American cities. He doesn't care about the law. So, what -- he's going to do what he wants to do no matter what.

And then when we pass spending, he still decided not to use that money. So, this president, it doesn't matter if the government is open or not, he is in -- we believe that he's been constantly in violation of the law. The money that's been appropriated by Congress, as well as the -- I would say the Constitution itself.

So, if it's shut down or it's not, this guy is going to do what he wants anyways, especially with the Republican majority here in the House that capitulates on every single issue, from the authority to impose tariffs, to spending. You name it, this Republican majority has basically thrown up their hands in saying, we have no say in our -- in our government and what Donald Trump actually does.

BERMAN: Congressman Jimmy Gomez from California, thanks for being with us today. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The first rate cut of the second term, that could be coming from the Federal Reserve today, and what it could mean for you.

And President Trump is getting a royal welcome this morning in a very big way, meeting King Charles and Queen Camilla. We are live at Windsor Castle with special coverage of the president's historic second state visit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:49]

BERMAN: All right, the breaking news this morning, President Trump and the first lady getting the royal treatment in the United Kingdom. This is an historic second state visit for him. The British honor guard led a procession as the president and first lady watched alongside King Charles and Queen Camilla.

The visit, though, being met with some protests, including a van driving around with an image of the president and Jeffrey Epstein plastered on it. There was also an image of Trump and Epstein projected onto Windsor Castle itself for his arrival.

CNN royal correspondent Max Foster is with us.

We can see the castle right behind you, Max. And this is an historic visit in so many ways.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is on -- in terms of scale. We saw this extraordinary scene in the courtyard where we had three companies of soldiers there for the honor guard, which we've never seen before. They actually crammed the courtyard full of as many soldiers and bands people as they could really to give Donald Trump the sense that this is historic. We've never had a state visit like this.

I think what is interesting, you're talking about the protests there. Trump isn't going to see any of it because he's so protected. He was flown in to the Windsor estate.

[09:30:00]

All of that's happening outside the estate. And then we have this procession going through Windsor Great Park without any members of the public, but still lined by the military.