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Interview with Sen. Andy Kim (D-NJ): Ex-CDC Director Says Conflict Over Vaccines Led to Firing; Pomp, Grandeur Surround Trump's Second State Visit to UK; Pilot Scolded for Flying too Close to Air Force One; Trump and First Lady Attend State Dinner at Windsor Castle. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 17, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: That the secretary told her he couldn't trust her and that she said that if you can't trust me, then you can fire me. Kennedy testified recently that he said, quote, I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, are you a trustworthy person? And she said no.

Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin suggested that there was actually a recording of the meeting as he was disputing, Monarez has claimed. She again just repeated what she said that she said and what Kennedy said.

Then later -- a short time later, Chairman Cassidy announced that Senator Mullin had actually walked that back about a recording, but asked that if there is any recording, that it be turned over.

Have you heard anything about a recording of these conversations at HHS?

SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ), HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR AND PENSIONS COMMITTEE: I have not heard anything more than what we just heard in the hearing. I was actually the senator that spoke after Senator Mullin. So I was as shocked as anybody else by what I had heard.

I had heard that he had walked some of that back, but I still don't know what the truth is. But like, look, you know, when you look at the different accounts there, I mean, which account can you believe? Of course, no one's going to say to their boss that they are not trustworthy. It just makes zero sense.

And frankly, especially coming from somebody like Secretary Kennedy, who said that Lyme disease is a biological weapon created by the U.S. military. I think it's very clear that the trust side here is with Dr. Monarez and not with RFK Jr. thank you for taking time for us today.

KEILAR: Senator Andy Kim, thank you for taking time for us today. We appreciate it.

KIM: Yes, thanks for having me.

KEILAR: President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump are wrapping up the first day of their historic state visit to the United Kingdom. They are at a state dinner right now at Windsor Castle. Stay with us.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: President Trump and Melania Trump, the first lady being treated to a day of pomp and pageantry in the UK as the royal family welcomes the first couple for a historic second state visit. And among the highlights, a flyover by the Royal Air Force's aerobatic team. And a state dinner at Windsor Castle, which you are seeing those pictures of.

Just a beautiful scene happening right now.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Quite fancy. We're joined now by CNN royal historian Kate Williams. Also CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger of The New York Times. Thank you both for being with us.

Kate, put into perspective the unprecedented nature of this visit and the display that we've seen for Trump today, including how people in the UK generally feel about it.

KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: This is totally unprecedented, Boris. If a U.S. president gets a second term, it's usually the custom that they'll simply have tea with the monarch, just like President Obama did. In this sense, we're having a full, big ceremonial visit.

And in fact, it's bigger than it was in 2019. The level of troops today, we have never seen one. That's the biggest level of troops we've seen in living memory. 1,300 of this parade, the pomp, the pageantry, all against the incredible backdrop of Windsor Castle, the castle built by William the Conqueror in the 11th century. It has been incredibly grand. I think this is the biggest state visit that we have seen, certainly since COVID.

And I really haven't seen one as big and as significant as this. I mean, Windsor is totally taken over by the state visit. And we understand a lot of it was really what President Trump requested in certainly in terms of the military operations, but also when he went this afternoon to lay a wreath on the tomb of Elizabeth II.

That's a very private tomb. You can't just pop in as a tourist. It's for family only. And so he went there. And that's a very significant moment.

And certainly, I think this couldn't have gone better in terms of the planning. I think President Trump and the first lady, Melania Trump, look thrilled by it. But yes, as you say, there is a lot of protest going on, particularly in London.

Buckingham Palace is closed. So the state visit didn't take part in Buckingham Palace because it needs renovations. But there's a lot of protest in London. There has also been protest in Windsor.

And although polls suggest that generally most people in Britain believe the state visit should go ahead because a trade deal is absolutely needed, there are, I think, a lot of protesters who say this shouldn't have happened and he shouldn't have got the red carpet rolled out for him. So certainly I think that people all eyes are going to be on the political outcomes of the state visit. Has it all been worth it?

KEILAR: Yes, but David, I mean, if he didn't have the red carpet rolled out for him, you can see this visit actually going quite poorly, right? This is a strategic decision delivering on what Trump wants.

And I wonder what kind of sway you you might tell us King Charles can have over Trump. And these kinds of big gestures can have when it comes to trade and defense in Ukraine.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Considerable, Brianna. I think it is a pretty big influence, particularly in the trade arena. Look, the president loves pageantry. The British figured this out. There's nothing they do better than what you're seeing on that scene right now in Windsor Castle. And so rare to have one of these in Windsor.

[15:40:00]

And so the I know it impressed the president who talked about it before he left for Britain, that this was in Windsor Castle and he was talking about how much grander that would be than having it in Buckingham Palace.

So they figured him out. They understand his transactional nature. They know that the way the Japanese treated President Trump in his first term made a big difference in the kind of the way President Trump thought about Japan and the relationship that he had at the time with Prime Minister Abe. They've figured out here that they need some help given the tariffs and the sharp differences on Ukraine. So they are stopping at nothing.

And, you know, what we've learned about Donald Trump is he loves nothing more than great pageantry.

SANCHEZ: This obviously a precursor to his meeting with Prime Minister Keir Starmer tomorrow. The two seem to have a pretty good relationship. What are you looking for out of that meeting?

SANGER: Well, the main difference right now, Boris, apart from the trade and tariff questions, has been a very different approach to Ukraine. And Starmer recognizes that Vladimir Putin is getting his greatest gift right now, which is a division inside NATO. And so you've seen the French and the British and the Germans line up much more strongly behind support for President Zelenskyy and President Trump kind of hanging back, you know, declaring again the other day, well, Zelenskyy needs to make a deal.

Not thinking about this the way the Europeans are, which is that if Russia doesn't get stopped in Ukraine, the chance they're going to keep pushing the boundaries with NATO are very, very high. And you saw that with the drone flights into Poland last week.

So they're viewing this very differently. And to the degree that Prime Minister Starmer can use this moment and the good feeling generated by it to bring President Trump over to his side or at least nudge him that way, I think they will believe it's worth it.

KEILAR: Kate, we saw political activists projecting images of President Trump and Jeffrey Epstein onto Windsor Castle. The royal hosts have their own sort of Epstein connection. It's something that actually forced Charles's brother, Prince Andrew, to withdraw from public life in 2020.

How are they viewing this moment? And this, I mean, quite a spectacular protest.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that is, as you say, a spectacular protest. Images of it were beamed all around the world. It wasn't the images that anyone in terms of the royal household or in terms of the Trump party wanted beamed all over the world.

But it really suggests that people aren't going to forget this and they are going to be asking questions about Epstein. It's very much on people's minds now with the birthday book, with all the questions about the birthday book. And yes, as you say, it's very close to the royal family because Prince Andrew, Prince Charles's brother, had to leave public life.

And because he will not be at the banquet. So we've seen these wonderful pictures of the banquet. Prince Andrew will not be there due to the Epstein connection.

And I think questions are going to be eventually asked about this, certainly from the journalists, about what certainly the attitude towards Epstein.

KEILAR: Yes, hard to escape the issue no matter where the president goes. Kate, David, thank you so much to both of you.

Tense moments in the sky as a Spirit Airlines pilot is scolded repeatedly for what he failed to do as Air Force One was flying nearby.

We'll have details ahead.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We are now, for the first time, hearing the audio of an air traffic controller scolding a pilot for flying too close to Air Force One. At one point, the controller saying, get off the iPad. The president was flying to the UK at the time.

KEILAR: That's right. CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is here to break it down. All right, explain what happened. PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is interesting here because of the urgency. To set this up right, you kind of have to hear the audio of the transmission, the exchange between the air traffic controller there in New York center. And he's trying to reach this Spirit flight, Spirit flight 1300 as Air Force One with President Trump on board is in the same airspace.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATC: Pay attention, Spirit 1300. Turn 20 degrees right.

ATC: Spirit 1300 turn 20 degrees right now.

ATC: Spirit wings, 1300 turn 20 degrees right immediately.

ATC: Pay attention. Spirit 1300 traffic off your left wing by eight miles. 747. I'm sure you can see who it is.

ATC: Keep an eye out for him, he's white and blue.

ATC: Pay attention, get off the iPad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: OK, the iPad reference here is pretty critical because -- by the way, we cut that down for time. That was a three minute long exchange. We made that about 25 seconds long.

But the iPad reference here is key because you may be wondering, like, you know, why say get off the iPad. Pilots use iPads all the time. It's really critical nowadays in flying.

The big thing here I want to demonstrate to you is just how far apart these airplanes actually were. So I brought props today. The anchors get nervous when I bring toys.

KEILAR: I love it. I'm not nervous. I'm excited.

MUNTEAN: Boris is going to be our Spirit flight. Right. You're just going to go to this corner, OK.

SANCHEZ: Hanging out in the iPad.

MUNTEAN: Just look pretty. All right. It's not hard for you. And then I'm going to be Air Force One. And so if we're talking, these are about a one to 400 scale.

This is 400 times smaller than the real thing. Corner to corner. The studio is 72 feet.

So if we're talking, we do the math. I did it.

[15:50:00] If we're talking corner to corner, 72 feet to scale here. I'd still have to go another 22 feet to be eight miles apart. So the real question now is kind of the urgency. Why did this controller repeat over and over again, when the planes were so far apart. Good job, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Pete.

MUNTEAN: That was -- you did a nice job.

KEILAR: I'd like to play the ticked off air traffic control. That's my role.

MUNTEAN: And we'll get, we'll get Brea a part eventually.

KEILAR: Get off.

MUNTEAN: But why the urgency here when the airplanes were so far apart? The statement now from the FAA and from Spirit Airlines is that everything was safe. Even the FAA underscores this was not a close call. These planes were pretty far apart at the time.

So it's some real questions here about sort of the professionalism. Why did this controller have a bee in his bonnet about these two airplanes being relatively close together?

Sure, it's Air Force One, but even still.

SANCHEZ: Why didn't the pilot respond? Because multiple times you heard the controller say, hey, nudge, nudge, nudge.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Why not just, hey, you're right.

MUNTEAN: And there are times when, you know, things are going on in the cockpit. You may miss a transmission. The radio might be turned down. Remember, it's a radio, so it's not perfect. So there may be interference. There may be just something else going on where the pilots were briefly distracted.

But iPads typically aren't the distraction. iPads are generally an aid to the flying because they have manuals and charts. And even at Spirit, they have a turbulence reporting.

SANCHEZ: So they're not looking at memes on the iPad.

MUNTEAN: No, they're actually using it for work. They're supposed to not look at memes, but we have a dank meme stash later. We'll do that in the next break.

KEILAR: So could he just be nervous? You know, like he has many things to do, I'm sure.

MUNTEAN: And air traffic controllers are under a lot of stress right now. Remember, they're working mandatory six-day weeks of 12-hour shifts in many cases.

KEILAR: Brutal.

MUNTEAN: And so, you know, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. But some big questions here.

KEILAR: All right.

SANCHEZ: Pete Muntean, thank you so much for the reporting and the interactive demonstration. That was fun.

KEILAR: Loved it.

MUNTEAN: Yes, I tried to make it interesting.

KEILAR: And it's like cardio.

SANCHEZ: Do I have to give this back?

KEILAR: So far.

SANCHEZ: I'm going to keep this one.

MUNTEAN: Yes, you can keep that one as a souvenir.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

MUNTEAN: It's all for you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: So, still to come, Ben and Jerry's without Jerry? One of the ice cream company's legendary co-founders now quitting. The reason, he says, he has to leave his own company brokenhearted after nearly five decades.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We are now getting our first glimpse of President Donald Trump alongside King Charles inside Windsor Castle in the U.K. This is just moments ago. You see Queen Camilla alongside First Lady Melania Trump. A historic visit from President Trump.

These are actually live images of King Charles speaking live alongside President Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Let's go ahead and listen in.

KING CHARLES III, UNITED KINGDOM: ... has made us safer and stronger through the generations. Our people have fought and died together for the values we hold dear. We have innovated, traded and created together, fueling our economies and cultures through myriad forms of exchange.

We have celebrated together, mourned together and stood together in the best and worst of times.

Mr. President, as we approach the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence next year, it is remarkable to think just how far we have come. I cannot help but wonder what our forebears from 1776 would make of this friendship today.

The rebel commander and pioneering first president, George Washington, famously vowed never to set foot on British soil. And my five times great-grandfather, King George III, for his part, did not spare his words when he spoke of the revolutionary leaders. Today, however, we celebrate a relationship between our two countries that surely neither Washington nor King George III could possibly have imagined.

The ocean may still divide us, but in so many other ways we are now the closest of kin. Mr. President, you have spoken of your pride in your British roots. In fact, not only have you set foot on British soil twice in the last two months alone, but I understand that British soil makes for rather splendid golf courses.

Now, for my part, I have always admired the ingenuity of the American people and the principles of freedom which your great democracy has represented since its inception. Throughout my life, from the very first visit to the United States in 1970 and over 20 visits since that time, I have cherished the close ties between the British and American people.

In fact, had the media succeeded in the 1970s in their own attempt to deepen the special relationship, I myself might have been married off within the Nixon family.

Mr. President, from York to New York, from Birmingham, England to Birmingham, Alabama, we are ...

END