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Hungarian Leader to Designate Antifa as Terrorist Organization; Trump Floats Pulling TV Licenses, Says Networks are Against Him; Confusion, Delays as RFK's Handpicked Vaccine Advisers Meet; New York Officials Arrested After Protest at ICE Facility. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired September 19, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: New today, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban says he will follow President Donald Trump's lead and designate Antifa a terrorist organization. Orban, a right-wing populist, a staunch ally of President Trump, has a long history of cracking down on critics, including media outlets and civil rights groups. President Trump has praised Orban as a very great leader and very strong man, while critics have accused Trump of deploying the kind of tactics Orban has used in Hungary.

With us now is Ian Bremmer. He's the president and founder of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media. Ian, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

Help us understand the relationship between Trump and Orban, whether they're close and whether you think Trump is taking a page from Orban's playbook.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, EURASIA GROUP AND GZERO MEDIA: They're close-ish in the sense that Orban has been, you know, sort of this anti-liberal, anti-woke nationalist who is interested in using, pursuing power in ways that undermine checks and balances in his own country on the executive. He's been very proactive in supporting Trump politically. The biggest geopolitical difference in foreign policy between Trump and predecessors is probably that Trump is not a supporter of a strong Europe, wants a weak and divided Europe.

He liked Brexit very much, asked other leaders when they were going to leave, thinks that the Americans are much stronger if they're dealing with individual European countries that are weak than a common EU with trade capabilities than the rest. And in that regard, Hungary and Orban, who has been a considerable thorn in the side of Ursula von der Leyen and those who want the EU to be a common, sovereign, supranational authority, has been very much singing from Trump's hymn sheet. So those are the things I think that bring them together.

SANCHEZ: To the point about Orban's moves when it comes to the press and critics of his, you recently posted, quote, cancelling Jimmy Kimmel isn't about an offensive line in a monologue, it's about wielding state power to silence political opposition. If that is the case, then what is in place to protect political opposition in this country, to protect the First Amendment? BREMMER: Well, an independent judiciary, I mean, it is not a political organ of the United States. There are many countries, many democracies that have become less so, including Mexico, by undermining the independent judiciary. That's a big part of why there's been a massive fight, huge demonstrations in Israel, is a very strong independent judiciary is something that Prime Minister Netanyahu is trying to undermine and make subservient to his own authority.

That is not true in the United States. But the judiciary is unequal in power. And we are seeing that the Supreme Court has been very careful, very cautious about what cases they want to take up and just how much of a direct fight they want to have with Trump on issues that, frankly, whether or not rule of law is on the Supreme Court side, a lot of Trump's policies are quite popular. Like when he goes after Harvard or he goes after, you know, sort of an illegal immigrant and deports him illegally to El Salvador.

I mean, these are areas where the Supreme Court has the potential to lose a lot of popular support, even as they're upholding rule of law in the U.S. Constitution.

SANCHEZ: I wonder what you make of where cancel culture, so-called cancel culture, stands in the United States right now, because you also made this point on social media. A lot of the folks that were espousing freedom of speech as of a few years ago are now celebrating Kimmel suspension.

BREMMER: Well, cancel culture became a much bigger thing under the left, of course. And we saw with political correctness and safe spaces and the rest that there were a whole bunch of people that, you know, were pilloried by the braying masses for saying things that they didn't like.

People lost jobs. People lost university professorships. People lost their columns in the media, these sorts of things. Now, the difference, of course, is now you have cancel culture being driven not just by a political movement, but directly by the president of the United States.

[14:35:00]

I mean, when Trump says to a journalist that, well, so much of what I see in the media is negative about me, and so maybe these networks should have their licenses taken away, that would be my preference. You know, that's the kind of thing that does happen with elected leaders, but not with freely and fairly elected leaders.

That's what happens in Turkey. That's what happens in Hungary. It doesn't happen in the United Kingdom. Now, in the United Kingdom, people get arrested for saying things and posting things that are seen to be inappropriate, but it's not about the political opposition to the prime minister. It's about the fact that the UK just doesn't stand for full freedom of speech the way the United States does.

Here, you have a constitutional right to freedom of speech, but if that freedom of speech is not seen to be politically well-oriented, you can be deplatformed. Just like President Trump was deplatformed by Twitter and by Facebook while he was president by decisions of individual corporate leaders, which I thought was incredibly irresponsible, so too did Chancellor Angela Merkel from Germany at the time.

Now we see Jimmy Kimmel getting deplatformed because the head of the FCC is saying to the companies that want to merge, hey, nice merger you have there. Wouldn't it be a shame if something were to happen to it?

SANCHEZ: Ian Bremmer, always appreciate the nuanced point of view. Thanks for joining us.

BREMMER: My pleasure.

SANCHEZ: Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour. Authorities in Washington State believe that they have found the remains of Travis Decker, the man accused of killing his three young daughters. The remains, which include bone fragments, were near the campground where the girls' bodies were found back in June. The items have since been turned over to a crime lab for DNA confirmation.

The manhunt began in May when Decker didn't return his girls after what should have been a three-hour custody visit.

Also, just a wild scene in a Florida courtroom. Eyes on the guy in the stripes there. A routine hearing turning chaotic when that inmate lunged and spit at the judge. Deputies were able to subdue him, remove him from the courtroom. The judge not heard in this case. The inmate now facing felony battery charges.

And the music world is in mourning for Grammy-winning songwriter Brett James. He is best known for writing hits like Carrie Underwood's Jesus Take the Wheel. He died in a plane crash yesterday, according to the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. The FAA says a small plane registered under James' name crashed into a field in Franklin, North Carolina, killing the pilot and two passengers.

The FAA is investigating. Brett James was 57 years old.

And still to come, mudslides, trapping cars, burying homes in Southern California. But the threat of more severe weather, it is not over.

[14:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We may be close to a key decision on the COVID vaccine from a government advisory committee. The members who were handpicked by known vaccine skeptic, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. In the last hour, they just heard this concern from a doctor on the board of the American Medical Association.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANDRA FRYHOFER, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: It's troubling to see the erosion of the committee's integrity. We're concerned about how vaccine recommendations are being developed by this new panel. Data is being selectively used to justify specific conclusions rather than considering all of the available evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The committee is nearing the end of this two-day meeting that has seen confusion. There have been delays about longstanding childhood immunizations and the schedule for them. So much so that the panel actually delayed a vote on the hepatitis B vaccine that is given to babies as soon as they're born. On the table, recommending that parents wait for the infant to be at least a month old before getting the shot.

With us now is Dr. Demetre Daskalakis. In August, he resigned from the CDC with two other senior officials in protest of Secretary Kennedy firing CDC Director Susan Monarez.

Doctor, you have been watching this very carefully. What is the big takeaway for you from this meeting over the last two days?

DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS, CDC SENIOR OFFICIAL WHO RESIGNED OVER CONCERNS ABOUT RFK JR.: I think for me, the biggest takeaway is that you've seen some chaos that really is unprecedented in vaccine policymaking. I think that we've seen a lot of data that's been presented that has not been adequately vetted. We've seen decisions that were unclear.

We've seen people who made votes that didn't understand what they were voting for. And I think right now, as the meeting continues, we just came off a presentation that literally went through all sorts of data, much of which is unvetted and may actually be looked at as conspiratorial. So I don't know what this is, but it certainly isn't a serious advisory committee.

KEILAR: Can you point just -- and it sounds like you're saying there's a lot of data that's not vetted, but can you give us some examples that really stood out to you?

DASKALAKIS: Sure. I mean, I think that there are sort of data that were presented around impurities in COVID vaccine, in vaccine-related injury that has not really been vetted, that is not necessarily even peer-reviewed. It's not gone through any process at CDC that is the standard of going through the data to look at the quality of the data, and then to, you know, bring together the totality of the information so that the advisory committee can actually make an informed decision. This is not normal.

[14:45:00]

KEILAR: And when you say there's people voting on things they don't understand, are you saying that they are not qualified to be on the committee, or is there something more that you're saying there? DASKALAKIS: I think that that could mean two things. So I do think

that there are some folks who don't actually have the expertise to be able to make, frankly, vaccine policy for the country that reflects the health of the people. But yesterday, at the very end of the meeting, there was a moment where someone didn't understand what the vote meant and then proceeded to vote.

So I feel like that is pretty problematic. They had to backtrack a vote this morning. They appropriately tabled the discussion about the hepatitis B vaccine because they in no way had done the process that would make you confident in any recommendation coming from the committee.

So, I mean, I've got to say, I worked with this committee for several years. I've been to all of the meetings and I'm very concerned that this new advisory committee for vaccines for the country really should not be listened to given the fact that it is so chaotic.

KEILAR: Talk to us about the hep B vaccine in infancy. Why is there some resistance to giving it right away? What happens if you don't?

DASKALAKIS: You know, it's a great question. I mean, one of the first things that you do at this advisory committee is ask what's the public health problem that we're solving for? And I don't see what the public health problem is.

We had a very safe vaccine that has prevented hepatitis B in children. And that means preventing liver cancer, liver scarring, and liver transplants in adults. So I don't know what the question is.

And yesterday, you know, people on the committee were asked over and over again, like, what is the problem for which we're solving? And they weren't able to answer that. So I don't know why they're talking about hepatitis B vaccine at the birth dose again, since that seems to be really good public health practice that has changed the story for so many people's health in America.

KEILAR: And what is your concern about breaking off MMR and V, right? Measles, mumps, rubella from varicella or chickenpox?

DASKALAKIS: Yes, so I mean, the good news is that there is a measles, mumps, rubella vaccine and a separate chickenpox vaccine. So people are going to be able to make sure their kids have those vaccines. What happened by removing the possibility of using the combination vaccine that is measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox is it's limited choice.

So 15 percent of pediatricians and their patients last year decided that they needed that vaccine for one reason or another, convenience. It's really about that clinical interaction with the pediatrician where that decision was made. So this committee just removed that option.

So though it's not a vaccine that's used very frequently, it is one that clearly pediatricians want to use in certain situations. This committee has removed that option and has also removed coverage by insurance and also the Vaccines for Children's program. So they have limited choice and frankly have limited the ability of a medical provider to tailor their care to what their patient needs.

KEILAR: Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis, there are many more questions I will say that we would like to cover and we are going to continue to as we are following this meeting. But thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it.

DASKALAKIS: Thank you for having me and back to hear what happens with COVID. Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Certainly, we're awaiting that -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Cleanup efforts are underway in Southern California after tropical moisture triggered flash flooding and powerful mudslides on Thursday. San Bernardino County was hit especially hard as debris flows covered roadways and buried homes.

Several vehicles got trapped on Highway 38 when mud barreled in from both directions. Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking the latest conditions. Allison, the thunderstorms had helped from tropical moisture.

Help us understand what that means.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, so the remnants from Tropical Storm Mario that were out in the Eastern Pacific is what fueled a lot of this moisture to kind of surge into not just Southern California, but a lot of the nearby states as well. And here you could see the storm again as it kind of tracked up the Baja California Peninsula. And even though it weakened down, it lost its tropical storm status, it still sent all of that moisture into portions of Southern California.

And for a lot of these areas, they got all of that rain in a very short period of time. And so getting all of that rain in a very quick succession leads to images like this, where you can see again, all of that water just flowing down at very fast speeds. It's also picking up debris along the way.

So it's picking up trees, branches, things like that. And even in some cases, picking up a few cars and taking it with it as that water continues to flow down.

SANCHEZ: Allison Chinchar, thank you so much for walking us through that.

Still to come, protests outside an ICE facility turn into arrests of some New York elected officials. That and much more coming your way in just minutes.

[14:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Eleven local and state officials in New York are facing charges after being arrested when they demanded access to an ICE facility in Manhattan. They're accused of blocking entrances. They're due in court next month.

And there were a number of other arrests after a protest nearby broke out. New York City Comptroller Brad Lander was one of the officials arrested yesterday. He joins us now to discuss.

Thanks so much for being with us, sir. First, what was your concern about what was happening in that ICE facility? What were you suspicious of and why were you demanding access to it?

[14:55:00]

BRAD LANDER, NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER: On Wednesday, a federal judge, Lewis Kaplan, indicated that there are cruel and humane conditions on the 10th floor at 26 Federal Plaza.

People are being forced to sleep on the floor. There are no showers. They aren't getting meals. They're in spaces that are too small. And no one has been allowed to see what conditions really look like.

Just today, we learned an ICE detainee died in custody on Long Island. And we just wanted to see. We showed up and said, let us take a look at conditions. And if you let us observe and make sure that the law is not being violated, then of course we'll leave peacefully.

But they refused to let us in. And we said, we're not leaving until we can make sure that the law is being followed.

SANCHEZ: Just for the sake of clarity, was there a prior request to enter or was it sort of showing up unannounced?

LANDER: Well, yesterday we showed up. I've been going to this building pretty much every week for the last three months to go to immigration hearings, which take place on the 12th and 14th floor. That's where ICE agents wait in the hallway.

And people who are following the law, coming to their hearings, get a new court date from a judge, have been told they'll get the chance to explain why they fear persecution, are then roughly grabbed by ICE agents and then hustled down to the 10th floor. So we were in the building appropriately.

We went to the 10th floor to ask to see conditions as we have done in writing, as we have done in person, as members of Congress have done in writing and in person. And ICE has denied every single request.

Yesterday, they even put duct tape over the crack in between the double doors. What are they hiding?

SANCHEZ: I want to get your reaction to a DHS spokesperson telling CNN that some of the rhetoric that's out there about ICE has caused an increase in assaults. That's an assertion that the department has repeated multiple times. What is your response to that, that the reaction from community leaders and from the general public has led to violence against these federal agents? LANDER: I'll be honest. I believe they're lying. They have produced no data. They have produced no evidence. They haven't shown the case files they're referring to. They are making up numbers.

And you know, in fact, the federal judge, Judge Lewis Kaplan, in his ruling on Wednesday, essentially admonished ICE for lying about conditions on the 10th floor and failing to respond to what's taking place there. So ICE has made clear that they don't care about telling the truth. That's why we thought it was important to go bear witness in person.

Let me be clear. We did not present a danger to anyone yesterday. We did not threaten anyone. We asked to see conditions. And we said we were going to stay until we were allowed. And then we waited peacefully. And then we were arrested.

The only illegal thing, the only threatening thing, the only violent thing, the only dangerous thing being done at 26 Federal Plaza is what ICE agents are doing to people who are trying to follow the law and the cruel and illegal conditions that they're keeping people in on the 10th floor.

SANCHEZ: This charge is a misdemeanor. I'm wondering if you have any concerns about the case or if this is going to dissuade you from doing more of this in the future.

LANDER: I'm going to keep showing up to bear witness to attend those hearings. In many cases, I've been able to connect asylum seekers to attorneys to make sure they know their rights. When someone's ripped, I had one guy was ripped from the arms of his wife who was eight months pregnant.

So we're continuing in the nonviolent tradition of Dr. King. And we're not going to stop showing up until they stop abducting and cruelly and illegally detaining our neighbors.

SANCHEZ: Brad Lander, we have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much for joining us.

LANDER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: CNN has an upcoming special this weekend that you do not want to miss. Sara Sidner's "THE SIMRIL(L)S," a family in black and white. The two sides of an old Southern family, one black and one white, who took a deep dive into their shared history and discovered some heroes.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You went to search for his grave. Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something happens to you inside when you're there in the presence of historical greatness. It's why people reenact battles. It's why people go on pilgrimages. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, these people were buried before --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where Elias is buried is still unknown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is possible that Elias Hill's grave could be right here.

SIDNER (voice-over): Elias's African dreams did not become reality, but he brought his nephew Solomon Hill and Solomon's business partner to Liberia, and they hit the dream jackpot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They amassed a fortune as coffee barons. They had some land. And then once their coffee trees came to harvest, that's when the money started coming in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Tune in for the whole story with Anderson Cooper, "THE SIMRIL(L)S" ...

END