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Interview with Rep. Dan Meuser (R-PA): White House Budget Office Threatens Mass Firings if Deal Isn't Reached, Bondi, Prosecutors Have Concerns About Charging Comey; Widespread 911 Outages in Mississippi and Louisiana; Trump Threatens to Sue ABC for Bringing Kimmel Back. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 25, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We're just five days from a potential government shutdown and Democrats say they will not be intimidated by the latest threat. The White House Budget Office sent a memo telling federal agencies to prepare for mass firings if a funding deal is not reached. Typically, government workers head back to work once the deal is done.

And as Republican leaders push a plan that would extend funding through November 20th, Democrats are demanding, among other things, an extension to Obamacare subsidies, which expire at the end of the year. Without those subsidies, health care premiums would skyrocket for many people.

Joining us now is Republican Congressman Dan Meuser of Pennsylvania. He sits on the Financial Services and Small Business Committees.

Sir, thanks for being with us. As I said, we're just a few days out from this potential shutdown. Should the president be talking to Democratic leaders in Congress? This meeting was canceled by the White House.

REP. DAN MEUSER (R-PA): Well, yes, Jeffries and Schumer asked for them, demanded the meeting. The president acquiesced, but then he learned of what their demands were, and the demands were frankly rather nonsensical. It was a retraction of some of the most important provisions in the OBB, the Big, Beautiful Bill.

They were looking to actually cause spending increases of nearly $1.4 trillion. They wanted to remove the Medicaid restrictions on illegals and the work requirements and those who are ineligible. So their demands were nonsensical.

They also said no future rescissions, which basically means no more reduction in costs and spending. But then since, and let me finish, please, there was such nonsensical demands, they then added this about the ACA, the Affordable Care Act, which we as Republicans, I as a member of Congress care a lot about, but this isn't a situation until December 31st. Now, granted, you know, things move quickly, but there was no reason for this to take place now and determine whether or not we were shutting down the government or not. And by the way, the ACA needs a little bit of auditing, a little bit of improving. I'm not saying we're going to throw it out, but as of right now with the way they did it with the Inflation Reduction Act, people over $500,000 are receiving subsidies from the ACA. So it needs some reforms and they're using this to, as an excuse to somehow shut down the government.

KEILAR: It's not really an issue December 31st, right? Because I mean, that's when insurance, that's the seam for insurance, but open enrollment is in November. So isn't it much sooner?

MEUSER: Look, even if that's the case, OK. The fact that even if we could pass this --

KEILAR: Not even if that is the case, I mean, that's just a standard thing, right? That's for most, everyone's aware they do insurance open enrollments in November. So let me, let me walk people through what you're talking about here, because that's the enhanced affordable --

MEUSER: We are not --

(CROSSTALK).

KEILAR: Hold on, let me, I give, I let you talk for a really long time. So let me just explain to viewers what we're talking about, because it's not so clear.

The Enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies that are set to expire at the end of the year, half of the people who get their insurance on the individual market, mostly through these ACA marketplaces are actually connected to small businesses.

So we're talking about small business owners, self-employed Americans. That's according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. You of course care a lot about this. You're on the small business committee.

So when you are looking at that and you know that open enrollment is actually in November, right? So even if your insurance is up at the end of the year, you actually have to have this settled a lot sooner.

Aren't you concerned about getting that addressed really soon here?

MEUSER: They're looking to make those extensions that were made under the Inflation Reduction Act permanent. They were only set to be temporary for good reason because we were in COVID. I'm on the Problem Solvers Caucus.

This only came up about a week ago asking me to sign on to it. And I said, I will if we can make some adjustments to the high-end earners receiving the subsidies. And by the way, there's something else.

[15:35:00]

Over one-third of the recipients of the ACA did not cause any expenses, did not have any care given, yet the federal government paid the insurance companies nearly 33 percent more for not performing any services. So some tweaks and corrections need to be made. We can do that.

But again, back to my point, this never came up in the budget discussions. They had those initial demands, and then they added these because the others were nonsensical, and this can create a buzz throughout their base and throughout the media.

We can fix this. We can do this after we complete the budget.

KEILAR: Are some of those high-end earners small businesses?

MEUSER: Absolutely. OK, so that's true. So that could fall within it. But some of them aren't. And in the neighborhood, we have numbers of about $2 billion or $3 billion a year for those type of subsidies taking place. Now, granted, in the grand scheme of things, $2 billion or $3 billion is not that much, but why not fix it when we can?

KEILAR: How many people are we talking about? I mean, if you're talking about people who are earning oodles of dollars, and how many are we talking about that are small businesses? Because when we look at the numbers, a lot of it is small business owners.

So it might obviously look like a lot of money, but on paper, it's their small business, right, which Republicans always talk about.

MEUSER: You know, well, Democrats talk about the idea of compromising now. Certainly, that wasn't the case for the last four years. So why can't we have an ACA discussion and talk about finding common ground?

Because 90 percent of it is common ground. But the rest of it are corrective measures that should be done. Why would we be paying 33 percent of taxpayers' money to insurance companies that aren't being used to provide health services?

That's what's in the bill now. That needs to be corrected.

KEILAR: So I do want to ask you --

MEUSER: I'm all for it in the end. But right now, we need to pass the CR.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, it's certainly an issue that, like I said, open enrollment in November. While I have you, I do want to turn to former FBI Director Jim Comey and this indictment that we are expecting as soon as today. Big news today.

We're learning that Attorney General Pam Bondi and other federal prosecutors have concerns about the case against Comey, about going forward with this. That's according to sources. Does that give you pause?

MEUSER: Well, Brianna, the only reason I laugh is because James Comey began all of his attacks on the president on a false premise, and that was the Steele dossier. Kash Patel and the FBI has found some credible evidence that shows that they were very well aware -- they mean and Comey and all of them-- in the leadership, Strzok and others, that the Steele dossier was phony. Yet James Comey walked into the president of the United States office at the time, President Trump, and said, sir, we have concerns about this.

KEILAR: That's not what this is about.

MEUSER: He knew the Clintons paid for it, and yet he pursued it like it was real evidence.

KEILAR: Well, can you answer my question?

MEUSER: Everything that he stated to Congress was false. I'm sorry. I thought I did.

KEILAR: Does it give you pause --

MEUSER: What am I concerned about?

KEILAR: Does it give you pause that the Attorney General Pam Bondi and other federal prosecutors had concerns about moving forward with a potential indictment that could come as soon as today?

MEUSER: OK. Yes, I didn't hear the question properly. Sure. And that shows that they have not only open minds, but they're intelligent and they want to follow the Constitution. They want to follow the law. If she has some concerns about it, the Attorney General will work those concerns through and see if it's credible or not.

Sure, that sounds like critical thinking taking place, and that's a good thing.

KEILAR: The president, obviously, you've heard publicly pressured Bondi on True Social to prosecute Jim Comey, and almost uniformly, legal experts looking at that say he really has a case to argue selective prosecution. Has the president gotten himself perhaps into trouble? With all of these public comments.

MEUSER: Well, you know, Brianna, let's see how it plays out. Let's see what the evidence is. If they do bring an indictment and all, and they bring charges, let's see if we have the proof that shows that James Comey lied from the very beginning about the Steele dossier and his pursuit of President Trump and his leak that he admitted to to the press and et cetera, et cetera.

[15:40:00]

I think the evidence that I have as a member of Congress that James Comey did really terrible things and was very deliberate and was very biased, and that's a horrible shame because the credibility of the entire FBI has been eroded. But we're trying to build that back. And you know, when Pam Bondi shows critical thinking against the current FBI director, I think that's healthy.

KEILAR: Congressman Dan Meuser, thank you so much for being with us.

MEUSER: Thank you, Brianna. KEILAR: Still to come, more than 100 former ABC news journalists calling on Disney CEO Bob Iger to defend free speech and stand firm against President Trump's attacks. We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

KEILAR: We have breaking news into CNN. There are 911 outages reported in two states now. CNN's Ryan Young is following this story.

This is not good, Ryan. How widespread is this?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all, Brianna. We're following this right now as we speak. We're told Mississippi and Louisiana both are having issues with 911 calls.

We're talking about a major outage so far. We'll put up on our screen to full screen so you can see what has been put out so far. Both New Orleans and Mississippi putting out tweets just like this due to a regional 911 fiber line cut affecting N.O. callers may not be able to reach 911 and should call this number.

Mississippi also followed their own tweet showing this saying 911 systems are down. We're told this fiber cut has happened somewhere between the two states.

But right now we're trying to figure out was this a construction project? Did someone do this? These are all things that we do not know right now. Just to give you an idea, though, New Orleans received some over 400,000 911 calls in a given year.

So you understand the importance of 911. Clearly, if someone has an emergency right now, they may not know what those alternate numbers are. So this is something that's impacted.

I just talked to a sheriff in Mississippi whose office is dealing with this as well. They're trying to make sure that people who are near the phones to have these phone calls so they can actually help someone if they call 911 -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, all right. Ryan, we know you'll continue to track that. Very concerning -- Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: So South Park has returned to the air with a brutal take last night on a Jimmy Kimmel Live controversy, taking aim at FCC chair Brendan Carr and his role in the pressure campaign that saw late night host Jimmy Kimmel taken off the air temporarily.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the head of the FCC be OK, doctor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His bones are healing, so he may regain full range of motion. But if the toxoplasmosis parasite gets to his brain, I'm afraid he may lose his freedom of speech. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN has now obtained a letter sent by more than 100 ABC News veterans following Kimmel's suspension in which they urged Disney CEO Bob Iger to quote, defend free speech and press freedom against political intimidation.

We're joined now by staff writer at The Atlantic, Adam Serwer. Adam, thank you so much for being with us.

First, what did you think of South Park's depiction of the FCC chair?

ADAM SERWER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, I think that, you know, satire like that is precisely the kind of thing that's protected by the First Amendment. The First Amendment protections are never so strong as when people are making commentary on people in positions of authority, their leaders, whether those leaders are elected or appointed. And so, you know, whether you think it's funny or not, they have a right to do it.

And part of the issue here is that Mr. Carr and Mr. Trump do not believe that people have the right to say whatever they want about their leaders. They believe that they only have the right to say what they want.

SANCHEZ: You write, quote, Kimmel's refusal to capitulate stands out because so many other well-situated people have surrendered, withdrawn or become Trump's sycophants themselves. Who are you referring to?

SERWER: I'm referring to anybody who's in a position of power where they have the resources, the institutional backing or any kind of ability to refuse to submit to unconstitutional orders from this government. I mean, you know, someone like Jimmy Kimmel, like he's a late night host. He was told to shut up and submit to the president, not to make fun of him.

And he came back on and he said, I'm not going to do that. And there are a lot of other people in positions of power in this country, whether they're CEOs, whether they're heads of academic institutions, whether they're politicians, who should be saying the same thing. I'm not going to do that because that's unconstitutional. And I have the right not to do it.

And unfortunately, when you have all these people in positions of power saying, oh, well, I guess I might as well, you know, go without a fight. That gives the impression that what Trump is doing is A, normal or B, legal or C, you know, that everybody else thinks it's fine for him to do.

But when you speak up like Kimmel did, then people have a better understanding of how much this president is exceeding his authority under the Constitution.

SANCHEZ: Disney executives imply that they were trying to save Kimmel from himself before he could escalate things. And for his own part, Kimmel said that he understood that some felt his original monologue was ill-timed or unclear or both. He added that if the situation was reversed, there's a good chance I'd have felt the same way.

You, though, argue that Disney caved when they didn't have to.

SERWER: Well, I think, you know, it's one thing to take a break.

[15:50:00]

But I think the fact that they came back on air, even though several -- even though two of the companies that own many ABC affiliates were still refusing to air Kimmel suggests that they didn't have to cave in the first place and they could have just let him go on and say what he said last night -- or the night before. You know, exactly the way he did last week.

But sorry, he could have said what he said this week, last week, if necessary, to be clear.

SANCHEZ: Point taken. I wonder what you make of the president tweeting that he's going to test out ABC after having reached a settlement following a lawsuit that a lot of experts said were frivolous. Some of the concern among legal experts for these companies was that if they were to move forward and try to fight some of these lawsuits in court, they would wind up in an awkward discovery phase with all kinds of text messages and communications coming out that they thought might tarnish them.

What do you make of the president saying that and the position that it puts companies like ABC in?

SERWER: Yes, I mean, I think those concerns are understandable, but you see what happens when you don't actually fight cases like this. The president thinks that he can intimidate people out of exercising their right to free speech, their right to criticize the president. This is an administration that not only believes that you only have the right to say what they want you to say, but it's also an administration that is trying to shift, you know, the American economy from a government-regulated, market-based economy to one in which you have to play to play, one in which you have to have the favor of the president to avoid all kinds of burdensome regulations and costs.

And to be honest, if I were a CEO, I wouldn't want that kind of economy because it would mean that, you know, the strength of my product or my service is not the thing that makes me successful, but rather my proximity to the president.

SANCHEZ: Adam Serwer, appreciate hearing your perspective. Thanks for joining us.

SERWER: Thank you.

Ahead, a look at the clash between the Trump administration and the country's oldest, richest, and most prestigious university.

We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Harvard has become ground zero in America's culture wars. In his upcoming documentary for "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER," CNN's Omar Jimenez takes us inside the clash between the Trump administration and the country's oldest, richest, and most prestigious university. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VIOLET BARRON, JEWISH STUDENT: A lot of people will film opening their letter. I didn't want to do that. I thought it might jinx it. I remember just like running out of my room, kind of screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was talking to my parents the night I got in and I was like, should I commit? And they're like, are you kidding? You just don't say no to Harvard.

STEVEN LEVITSKY, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Harvard is simply the most influential of U.S. private universities. It's also able to send a message. If, in fact, the Trump administration is able to beat Harvard, every other university and college in the United States is going to know that it cannot afford to take on the Trump administration.

You want to always try to go as high on the chain as possible. And you work your way up. You experiment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You learn. But then eventually, you're going to have to say, we're going to have to go into the ring with the biggest, meanest, baddest, strongest opponent.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And this is that title fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is that title fight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Omar Jimenez is with us. So Omar, where does the funding fight go now?

JIMENEZ (on camera): Yes, so right now, Harvard is actually starting to see millions of dollars coming back in funding that was frozen because a federal judge recently ruled that the Trump administration couldn't freeze the over $2 billion that it has frozen in federal funding.

But what was interesting is the judge actually wrote in that decision that she concluded the Trump administration used anti-Semitism as a smoke screen for a targeted, ideologically motivated assault on this country's premier universities.

And that ruling is significant because it really begins to set the standard for other universities who are watching how this plays out. And they are also feeling settlement pressure from the Trump administration to do something, again, about anti-Semitism, as the administration has said.

As you can imagine, Trump administration says they're going to appeal this. They're going to fight this even further. But right now, a very significant moment to at least get some of this funding back moving forward.

KEILAR: Is there anything that surprised you while you were meeting with students and working on this documentary?

JIMENEZ: Yes, you know, one, I guess I've been out of college a little longer than I thought. I thought I was still in there, but not quite.

KEILAR: You are youthful.

JIMENEZ: Yes, let's go with that. But also that there is this unlikely alliance that formed. We pick up this documentary right after October 7th. Obviously, there was a lot of division on campus, a lot of hate back and forth.

And in the years that followed, the students on either side sort of saw what the Trump administration was doing and said, wait, wait a second. Our battles, we still have them. There's still division there, but we need to figure out what this outside person is doing.

A Republican Harvard student we spoke to said he actually thinks there's a good conservative environment on campus for students, but he thinks it's the professor ranks where there needs to be real reform.

Another student said that no matter what happens with this fight, the real lasting impact is going to be fear because he's an international student. And he says what it's shown is at any moment, visas could be revoked. A ban could be put in place for international students. And that is already starting to have ripple effects in conversations he's had with friends around the world.

SANCHEZ: We look forward to watching it. Omar Jimenez, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Be sure to tune in an all new episode of THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER, THE UNITED STATES VERSUS HARVARD" airs Sunday at 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

[16:00:00]

And thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. Brianna, always a pleasure. I am off tomorrow. So I hope you get to enjoy a Friday sans me.

KEILAR: No, I will not. I always enjoy anchoring with you, Boris, of course.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

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