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Trump: Hamas Must Disarm or We Will Disarm Them; Red Cross to Receive More Remains of Hostages in Gaza Soon; Crowd, Federal Officials Face Off in Chicago After Car Crash; Planet Hits First Climate Tipping Point, Enters New Reality. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 14, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... The episode is over, but Governor Shapiro said we cannot become numb to political violence -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Danny, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Just ahead here, President Trump says phase two of the Gaza ceasefire deal, quote, begins right now, while also adding the job is not done.

So what that second phase could actually look like remains unclear. We'll try to get a better answer just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: We are following breaking news out of Gaza. Just moments ago, Israel's military confirming the Red Cross is traveling into Gaza where it will receive the remains of additional hostages. It is not clear at this moment how many of those deceased hostages and the remains may be involved in this transfer.

[15:35:00]

Of course, at the moment, the remains of 24 deceased hostages have not been returned.

Just moments ago, we also got a new warning from President Trump saying that Hamas, in his words, must disarm or, quote, we will disarm them. He then suggested it could happen quickly and in his words, perhaps violently.

Joining me now is Andrew P. Miller, former Deputy Assistant Secretary for Israeli-Palestinian Affairs under President Biden. Andrew, it's good to have you here with us in studio. So the president was asked when he was taking questions just a short time ago about this.

He said Hamas has to disarm. They will disarm. And as you just heard, said he thinks it could happen pretty quickly, possibly violently. He was pressed on a timeline and he said it would be a reasonable period of time.

Do you have an understanding of how it would happen that Hamas could be disarmed?

ANDREW P. MILLER, FORMER DEP. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ISRAELI- PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS UNDER BIDEN: Hamas has been very clear that they will not relinquish their weapons until the, quote, occupation has ended. And by occupation, they not only mean the Israeli presence in Gaza, but also in Jerusalem and the West Bank. So it doesn't appear to be on their agenda.

When Hamas accepted the Trump proposal, one of their reservations was demobilization and they indicated they weren't, you know, prepared to do that immediately. They needed it for self-defense. It's going to be extremely difficult to achieve, all the more so when you consider that President Trump has now said he is allowing the Hamas police in Gaza to patrol the streets until an international stabilization force is available to take it on.

So that you're sending conflicting messages to this group and they can simultaneously be disarmed and provide for security in the streets.

HILL: He was pressed by a reporter saying, well, how will you disarm them? He said, I can't tell you that. But there is to your point about sort of conflicting messages, but also broader questions.

This international stabilization force is not yet formed. It is not in place. The 200 U.S. troops who are there in a support mechanism to help with logistics, to help with organization of aid, the administration has been very clear they will not set foot in Gaza. And yet you have Egypt's foreign minister yesterday telling my colleague, Becky Anderson, he thinks they should, that it would be good to have them there on the ground.

Do you ever see a scenario where that changes, that in order to disarm Hamas, President Trump could say U.S. troops are going to go in to make that happen?

MILLER: I think the U.S. military does have an important role to play, but as an enabler of other forces. Based on the last 25 years of experience, I think most foreign policy experts would be extremely reluctant recommending that U.S. military forces should enter into any type of occupation scenario in lieu of forces that are more familiar with the region, that are more culturally acceptable.

The Egyptians want the U.S. to be there with them as a show of support. That's understandable. But under the Biden administration, we considered this possibility and we were prepared to limit our role to enablement from outside. President Trump seems to be in the same place.

Everything is possible with him, but, you know, one of the central planks that he's run on since he emerged on the scene has been staying out of Middle East wars. If we do wind up in a scenario with a major U.S. military contingent in Gaza, of all places, I think that's going to test his support from his base.

HILL: As I just noted, the IDF has said that the Red Cross is going into Gaza to receive additional remains. We also have new reporting that Israel at this point is weighing its options if Hamas does not infect all the deceased hostages. What do you believe could happen if all of the remains of these 24 hostages are not returned?

MILLER: It's very possible that may not happen even if Hamas is being sincere. It's difficult to identify the locations of deceased individuals. This was one of the risks of continuing the war.

Not only that more hostages could be killed, but those who had already died could be buried in additional rubble. So it's possible that Hamas is deliberately deceiving the Israelis and holding onto them. It's also possible that at least some of these hostages have not been identified as of yet.

Israel has already announced that it's not reopening the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt, which is an important entry point for goods and people. They've also said that they're not going to allow the full 600 truckloads of assistance into Gaza that they promised. That's deeply unfortunate because Gaza is dealing with a famine and any loss in aid is going to have immediate material consequences for the physical welfare of the population.

HILL: Andrew P. Miller, really important to have your perspective. Thank you.

MILLER: Thank you for having me.

HILL: Boris.

[15:40:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're following some breaking news out of Chicago right now. A tense scene playing out this afternoon as a large crowd faced off with federal agents there. Our affiliate WLS says that rocks were thrown and a chemical agent was deployed. The crowd had gathered after a car crash that reportedly involved those federal agents.

CNN's Whitney Wild is following this story for us. So Whitney, what can you tell us about what happened, how this all started?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Boris, we're still learning more about what led up to this incident, but we have reached out to the Department of Homeland Security because our understanding is that these were potentially Customs and Border Patrol agents. Obviously, DHS is the overall big department that CPB is a component of.

The question we have is obviously what led up to this and what prompted this action from Customs and Border Patrol agents.

Again, we've reached out to federal officials. We are waiting to hear back for an on-the-record statement, but we did just minutes ago receive the Chicago side of this. We've reached out to the mayor's office as well as the Chicago Police Department.

The mayor's office says that members of the mayor's office are on site. They're trying to gather as much information as possible. The Chicago Police Department says that this incident, as they understand it, began at 1:07 a.m. That's when they got a call of an auto accident involving federal authorities.

Again, witnesses are saying that this started after a crash between federal agents and another vehicle. We did see video of two damaged vehicles being towed away.

The Chicago Police Department says that it was not involved in any of the federal operations occurring at that location. They did go to the scene. They documented the traffic crash. Additional Chicago Police Department supervisors arrived on scene to make sure that they are -- ensuring that there's the correct crowd control response, that the traffic investigation is moving smoothly.

While they were doing that, a crowd began to form as federal authorities were leaving the scene. And again, Chicago police say that members of CPD tried to de-escalate that situation so that everybody would remain safe.

Community members were continuing to gather at that location. That's when individuals began throwing objects at the federal agents. And the Chicago Police Department says that federal agents deployed tear gas into the street. They say 13 of their own officers were exposed to the tear gas. They will complete exposure reports.

Boris, this is the, you know, second time in about two weeks that Chicago Police Department officers have been exposed to chemical agents deployed by federal law enforcement. In a prior incident that was very similar to this, that looked very similar to this, 27 officers were exposed to chemical agents detonated by federal agents.

After that, the superintendent said that he had a call with federal agents to say how these things were going to go. So, Boris, there are many more questions to answer here. But at this point, what I've laid out for you is our first official on the record narrative.

Again, this is coming from the Chicago Police Department -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And we will await further answers and reporting. Whitney Wild, thank you so much for that update.

I had a stark warning to share with you from climate scientists around the world. They say the planet has reached a catastrophic and potentially irreversible tipping point. We'll explain next.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: A new climate report shows coral reefs are dying around the planet at an alarming rate. Since 2023, 80 percent of the world's reefs have experienced mass bleaching due to the ocean's record high temperatures. And this is just one of the environmental tipping points. Experts say the Amazon rainforest, polar ice sheets and more are at risk right now of irreversible damage. CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir joins us now. So, Bill, this report, also important to note, this is a report from scientists all around the world.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This was actually funded by the Jeff Bezos Earth Fund, Erica, led by the University of Exeter in the U.K., includes 160 scientists from 87 different institutions and 23 different countries to give you a scope of the study. And they're looking at these tipping points, these big events that once they happen are irreversible and really bad, like the die off of the Amazon, for example, or the Greenland ice sheet melting.

But the one they have announced is already underway is the die off of these warm water coral reefs. I'll give you the quote here from the report.

That is: Unless we return to a global mean temperature, surface temperature of the oceans of one point two degrees Celsius as fast as possible, we will not retain warm water reefs on our planet at any meaningful scale.

We are at one point four degrees of global warming right now, headed way past two. And this is what we're already seeing in 80 countries around the world, 80 percent of reefs. It's too warm for the coral polyps to to create life, to build these unbelievable structures.

These are the nurseries of the ocean. Twenty five percent of sea life is in the reefs. And if you've been in the Caribbean or even the Florida Keys, those those sorts of things in better days, you've seen how they have changed.

Let me show you. This is the Galapagos, a protected marine area, just to remind you of what the ocean should look like in healthier times right now. But this is trillions of dollars, not only in people who live off the sea, off of fisheries and tourism as well, but even places like the Galapagos that are relatively healthy now share the same ocean with the really, you know, overheating parts, the acidic parts.

In addition to the warming, of course, pollution from fossil fuels from oil, gas and coal changes the chemistry of the oceans, makes them more acidic and harder on sea life there.

[15:50:00]

So another sobering report right now saying that we're not headed towards a tipping point. We're living in it right now and the rest could follow.

HILL: I mean, also sobering when you look at what has changed in terms of commitments when it comes to dealing with the climate. The annual climate conference is coming up, I know, in Brazil. What is the state of, I guess, climate diplomacy in this moment? WEIR: Well, we're about to find out what it looks like without the biggest, richest country in the world. Of course, Donald Trump has declared war on climate science, has pulled the U.S. out of all these negotiations. Now, China is the big player when it comes to electrifying economies and so forth.

The Trump administration just quietly killed a solar project in Nevada that would have brought enough power for two million homes. And you got to come up with that power somewhere these days. So that's a favor to oil gas. And it just feeds right back into the ocean story we started with here.

But it is while everything else is happening in the news, we're reminded again and again that mother nature bats last and she is under assault from human activity right now. And these things are happening, even if we're not talking about it as much as we are other stuff.

HILL: Yes, but important that we are still talking about at least somewhat. So thanks for staying on it, Bill. Good to see you, thanks.

WEIR: You bet.

HILL: Just ahead here, SpaceX takes another critical step. It's powerful Starship rocket making its second straight successful flight. So what does this mean for the company's goal to send astronauts back to the moon? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Breaking news into CNN. The Israeli military just said that four more coffins carrying the remains of deceased hostages have been handed to the Red Cross in Gaza. Now these are live images from the Forensic Institute in Tel Aviv, where the remains are set to be identified.

We understand the coffins are on their way to be received by the IDF and the Israel Security Agency. This would make eight total remains returned to Israel by Hamas. There are some disagreements about just the exact number that Hamas is going to hand over as both sides in the mediations over this first phase of the ceasefire deal have acknowledged that it is not likely that all of the remains will be returned.

A major point of contention, especially when it comes to getting relief into the enclave as well.

HILL: Absolutely. So we'll continue to follow those developments.

SANCHEZ: So SpaceX is celebrating a second successful test flight of its Starship rocket after a string of failures. The company made this picture-perfect launch of its Starship flight system, the most powerful rocket ever built.

HILL: The rocket ship did seem to have a little trouble. It caught fire as it landed in the ocean. But still, this step was really critical as SpaceX tries to build a rocket that can return astronauts to the moon and potentially take them even further all the way to Mars.

CNN Space and Defense analyst Kristin Fisher joins us now. So Kristen, just put this in perspective for us. How big of a deal is this?

How much of an achievement is it for SpaceX?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's definitely a step in the right direction, a big step in the right direction. Two successful test flights in a row after that string of failures that you mentioned.

You know, this was the last flight of Starship's troubled version two. And I think everybody at SpaceX excited to put this version of Starship to bed because version three is going to be what you're going to see on the next test flight. And what's so important now is that, yes, we've had these two consecutive successful test flights.

But Boris and Erica, what's really critical now -- and this is what you're going to see with version three -- is transferring propellant from one Starship to another. Is that even possible?

No one's ever done it before. So we're going to see if SpaceX can pull that off, because that is what is needed in order to eventually land NASA astronauts to the moon as part of the Artemis program.

SANCHEZ: And to that point, NASA wants to do that by 2027. This is part of a space race with China. Do we think that SpaceX is going to make that deadline, given that we're in the final months of 2025?

FISHER: On paper, that is what everybody's saying. But when you talk to people who really know what they're talking about and how these things work, people inside the space industry, almost everybody agrees that 2027 is not going to happen for a crude lunar landing. That doesn't mean that the U.S. is necessarily going to lose this next space race to China. I mean, China still has a ways to go. They've said they want to land taikonauts on the moon before 2030, likely in 2029. And they are on pace to do that.

But what you have to keep in mind is just a few weeks ago, the former NASA administrator in the Trump administration, the first Trump administration, Jim Bridenstine, he testified in a Senate hearing that he believes it is now highly unlikely that the U.S. is going to beat China back to the moon. That was a big, bold statement.

And so SpaceX either has to drastically pick up the pace in which they are developing this Starship human lander version, or NASA is going to have to look elsewhere, perhaps somewhere like, oh, I don't know, Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin.

That's a company that you're hearing talked about with much more frequency in terms of the Artemis program. And they already have a contract with NASA to do that.

HILL: So is that something that then you're saying you're hearing it talked about with more frequency? Is it already under consideration to make that switch? FISHER: It is. So NASA is all about redundancy, Erica, right? Like they want to -- they don't want to be totally reliant upon SpaceX to have a human lander.

But Blue Origin was awarded this contract after SpaceX. So they're farther behind. So, you know, you really need SpaceX to come through because they were given the contract first.

But now if Starship can't land humans on the moon in time, there are conversations that are being had within industry. I don't know if they're necessarily happening between NASA and Blue Origin yet.

[16:00:00]

But within industry, certainly conversations are starting to be had about could Blue Origin ramp up the production of its lunar lander in time to make that deadline and beat China back to the moon, guys?

SANCHEZ: Yes, a huge difference between taking William Shatner and Katy Perry and other celebrities to space or what some describe as space, and then actually to the moon and beyond.

FISHER: Right.

SANCHEZ: Kristin Fisher, so great to get your expertise. Thanks so much for being with us.

FISHER: Thanks, guys.

SANCHEZ: Great to be with you as always, Erica.

HILL: Always a pleasure, my friend.

SANCHEZ: We have to hand it off to "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt, which starts right now.

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