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Senate Voting for 9th Time on GOP Plan to Fund Government; Interview Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-CA): White House Pressures GOP-States to Redraw Congressional Maps; Former Special Counsel Jack Smith Defends Trump Prosecutions; Average Cost of New Car Hits Record High. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 15, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Happening right now, the Senate is voting for the ninth time on Republican stopgap spending bill, which is unlikely to pass. And that, of course, means the government shutdown is expected to drag on. It's now in its third week, and the shutdown is showing no signs of ending anytime soon.

The House isn't even in session right now. And today, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent warned that the shutdown is slowing down the U.S. economy.

CNN's Manu Raju is joining us now from Capitol Hill. Manu, any movement behind the scenes? Are Democrats and Republicans talking here?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely no movement. In fact, things are getting worse and worse by the day. And real fears that this could be the longest government shutdown in the history of the United States.

Remember, that one was in 2018 to 2019, lasted 35 days. But much different in that situation. There were actually some level of negotiations, some signs that one side was buckling.

And in this case, there are signs that neither side is buckling, and there are no negotiations. Republicans say vote for their bill to reopen the government until November 21st. Democrats are planning this moment to vote again to block that bill for the ninth time in the United States Senate.

And Republicans say there should be no negotiations whatsoever until Democrats change their positions. Democrats, however, say that the expiring subsidies under the Affordable Care Act to help millions of Americans pay for their health insurance, those set to expire at year's end, must be dealt with now. It must be dealt with as part of this negotiation before they agree to vote to open the government.

And I caught up with a number of those Democrats to ask them whether or not they are feeling pressure back home to back off of their position. And they indicated to me that the opposite was happening. People were pushing them to dig in. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: How much pressure are you feeling back home to change your position?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I feel only pressure to fight. People want us to fight for this democracy. They see it being obliterated on the streets of Chicago.

They watch the growing censorship state. They're worried about their premiums increasing. The pressure that I get, and frankly, I think the feedback for a lot of my Democratic members, is that this is a fight worth having.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): We cannot -- we don't see a world where we allow all these people to go over a cliff with regards to the cost of their health care.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): No, the pressure is completely the opposite. People understand it's over health care.

RAJU: There's no way you'd ever support a clean CR.

MERKLEY: There is no such thing as a clean CR.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): And that last comment is referring to a continuing resolution, which is that stopgap measure to keep the government open. The Republicans did pass what's known on Capitol Hill as a clean CR, meaning that there are no extraneous provisions added to it, and that it would just simply extend government funding.

[14:35:00]

But because of the Democratic contention that health care must be dealt with immediately, otherwise Americans could feel pain over their increased premiums. That is what's causing this dispute between both sides of the aisle. And ultimately, it is the math that requires 60 votes in the Republican controlled Senate to pass a bill.

It is a 53-47 Senate. We've seen one Republican vote against this plan time and again, that's Rand Paul of Kentucky because of his concerns of the deficit, meaning eight Democrats are needed. But so far, just three have broken ranks to support this plan.

And time and time again, including in this vote right now, Brianna, only three are expected to vote for this Republican plan, meaning this is going to drag on for some time as the Senate could be leaving town as soon as tomorrow. And the House is still out of session as the Speaker keeps the house out of session, tried to pressure Senate Democrats to change course. Something they say they absolutely will not do -- Brianna.

KEILAR: They're holding fast. All right, Manu Raju, thank you. BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: This just into CNN. A federal judge just signaled that the layoffs during the government shutdown are unlawful and that she is ready to block them, at least temporarily. This news came into CNN just moments ago.

Also, at the same time, we're hearing from the director of the Office of Management and Budget, Russ Vought, suggesting that those same layoffs could likely reach quote, north of 10,000. Roughly 4,000 layoffs have taken place so far.

Let's dig deeper on this with Congressman Kevin Kylie of California. Congressman, thank you so much for coming into the studio with us today.

Just your reaction to the news that the layoffs of federal workers could go past 10,000 and also the news that a judge in San Francisco is inclined to at least temporarily block this.

REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Yes, I haven't looked at the decision, so I'm not sure whether or not that will stick. But I think it does just underscore the urgency of getting the government back open. I have voted to keep the government open and to avoid a shutdown.

And by the way, I did that during this administration as well as during the Biden administration. And so I voted for the clean CR, even though I'm not a fan of these CRs. I think it's a bad way to govern to keep just extending prior funding rather than actually passing a new budget.

But it's the lesser of two evils because of how severe the consequences of a government shutdown are. So I wish the Senate would just pass that and open the government back up. But at this point, Senator Schumer has indicated he's not willing to do that.

I might believe that's an unreasonable position, but this is politics. Sometimes, you know, you have to work with people who you believe are acting unreasonably in order to do the right thing for the country. And so that's why I think it's absolutely the wrong decision to have the House of Representatives not even here right now.

SANCHEZ: I've seen reporting that you've referred to the way that House Speaker Johnson has reacted to this shutdown, keeping House members away from the Capitol, basically letting the Senate sort this out as embarrassing. You've argued that there should be some form of dialogue between Democrats and Republicans. Some have tied this criticism towards Johnson to his refusal to speak out amid this mid- decade redistricting effort that now threatens your seat.

Are those two tied together?

KILEY: No, they're not. I mean, I obviously am not happy with his refusal to agree on something that I think the vast majority of the House agrees on, which is that a redistricting war is bad for the country. But I'd more liken what this shutdown of the House of Representatives is to what happened during the early days of COVID when I was in the California legislature and our leadership there said we're just not going to convene for week after week after week, even when this big crisis was going on. And I felt we needed to be there to debate and discuss the best path forward.

I was very vocal in protesting the shutdown of our legislature then. And similarly, I'm being vocal in protesting the shutdown of the House of Representatives now, which is not a necessary consequence of the government shutdown. You know, the Senate is still here, carrying on ordinary committee hearings, doing oversight, marking up legislation.

The House was supposed to be here each of the last three weeks, and yet we haven't been.

SANCHEZ: I want to get into some of the specifics about the negotiations and in terms of what you might support. But just a quick note on the redistricting effort. When we last spoke, you'd mentioned that you were trying to get a message out to the White House and to Republicans that effectively over the long term, gerrymandering is a game that no one wins.

KILEY: Right.

SANCHEZ: Have you heard back from either the administration or Republicans? Is there a continuing dialogue about this?

KILEY: I hear from members of our conference all the time who tell me that they absolutely agree with what I'm proposing. That this redistricting war where many, many members now are having their districts upended, butchered with communities just tossed out of their districts that they've represented for a long time. It's a really bad thing for democracy.

My view is gerrymandering is always wrong. It's wrong wherever it occurs. I don't care whether we're talking about Texas or some other state or my state of California. That's why, by the way, I've encouraged people to vote against Proposition 50 in California because you might not agree with what's happening in other states, but this is our one opportunity to actually stop gerrymandering in the one place we can, which is in our own state.

[14:40:00]

But I do think by the time we go to the next decade when we're supposed to be doing redistricting, hopefully we can come up with a bipartisan solution to end gerrymandering in this country once and for all.

SANCHEZ: On the question of potentially extending ACA subsidies, which is something that Democrats have said is a red line for them, subsidies that are set to expire at the end of the year, you've expressed, I wouldn't say a desire to extend those, more so a desire to have a dialogue over them because you're concerned that some of your constituents are going to see their health insurance premiums spike once they start signing up for healthcare during open enrollment. I wonder what is it that you would want from Democrats in order to potentially support extending those subsidies? KILEY: Well, I think a short-term extension is probably something that needs to happen at a bare minimum because I am really concerned -- and I know among a number of people in the Republican conference feel this way as well -- with people seeing just this huge sudden increase in premiums, especially in a state like California where the cost of living is so high already. So I think that there is going to be a deal on this issue, one way or another. I think the President is very concerned about this as well.

So if there's going to be a deal, anyway, then why not at least start talking about it now if at least reaching sort of the initial stages of a deal could provide a pathway out of the shutdown. I don't know why we wouldn't at least explore that.

SANCHEZ: Lastly, Congressman, you serve on the Judiciary Committee in the House. The Chairman, Jim Jordan, has openly talked about having Special Counsel Jack Smith come in and testify. Would you support that?

What would you want to hear from Smith?

KILEY: You know, we've had the special counsels for the last several investigations come in. You know, Mueller came in. We had the gentleman who did the investigation of Joe Biden and the documents, Robert Herr, come in.

So it doesn't seem that unusual to have this special counsel come in. It's kind of a standard part of the process.

SANCHEZ: And you would support? What would you ask him?

KILEY: I haven't thought about it, but I'd have time to prepare. Once the House of Representatives actually opens, that is, this is another reason why I'd like us to be back here because we have a lot of business to conduct. And by the way, having folks in town actually having conversations, I think, would make it more likely that we'll end this shutdown as well.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Kevin Kiley, we appreciate you coming in and sharing your perspective.

KILEY: You bet, any time, thanks.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come into NEWS CENTRAL. But first, be sure to tune in tonight. Kaitlan Collins is going to moderate "SHUT DOWN AMERICA," a CNN town hall with Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alejandra Ocasio-Cortez.

That is live tonight at 9 Eastern only on CNN.

Coming up, former special counsel Jack Smith, as we were just discussing, is now speaking out publicly defending his prosecutions of Donald Trump, slamming the way the president has been targeting his perceived enemies. We'll get into it in just moments.

[14:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. Los Angeles County officials have voted to declare a state of emergency to help those financially hurt by the ongoing immigration raids. The move could mean rent relief for tenants who have fallen behind, provide funds for legal aid and other services.

Immigration operations this summer spread fear in several communities, prompting many people to limit their outings.

Also, former New York Jets All-Pro center Nick Mangold is appealing for a kidney donor. The 41-year-old's shared on social media that he's been battling chronic kidney disease for nearly 19 years because of a genetic defect. He's undergoing dialysis and needs a transplant now.

He's asking fans of teams that he played for to help him if they are able. Mangold says his family is not able to donate at this time.

KEILAR: And about 31,000 health care workers at Kaiser Permanente, including nurses, are on strike, according to their union. Kaiser employees in California, Oregon and Hawaii walked off the job yesterday. They're demanding a 25 percent salary increase to keep up with inflation and better staffing to stave off burnout.

The strike will last five days, and Kaiser says it has hired thousands of temporary workers while negotiations continue.

For the first time, we're hearing from the man who was criminally prosecuting President Trump before Trump's reelection. Former special counsel Jack Smith breaking his silence in London last night, defending his work for the Justice Department and criticizing what's going on right now at the DOJ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: I think the attacks on public servants, particularly nonpartisan public servants, I think it has a cost for our country that is incalculable. And I think that we -- it's hard to communicate to folks how much that is going to cost us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: After Trump was inaugurated, Smith dropped two cases against him. And while the president's allies call the investigations, quote, partisan and politically motivated, Smith insists that politics did not play a role and never have in his work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: The idea that politics would play a role in big cases like this, it's absolutely ludicrous and it's totally contrary to my experience as a prosecutor.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Let's talk to a former leader in the Justice Department, Tom Dupree, who served as deputy assistant attorney general. All right, Tom, first, what do you make of what Smith saying about his work?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, Jack Smith is breaking his long silence and speaking very candidly about what he's seeing going on today in the Justice Department. It surprises me in one sense in that oftentimes special counsels, when their work is done, they kind of fade away and you don't really hear from them again. But at the same time, it doesn't surprise me in that Jack Smith is someone who has really spent his lifetime as a prosecutor, very familiar with the work and the traditions and the way the Justice Department historically operates.

And I think in his view, it warrants him speaking out now is what he sees as serious deviations from the way that the Justice Department has always operated in terms of when to bring indictments and when to charge people criminally.

[14:50:00]

KEILAR: Yes, he's deciding to speak, right, on a lot of topics that are very sensitive to President Trump at a time when Trump's publicly encouraging his AG to go after those that he perceives as his political enemies. Do you think the environment drove this decision for Smith to go ahead and speak?

DUPREE: I do. I do. I think what really drove his decision to speak, in particular, was the dismissal of people in the Justice Department. Either the forced resignations or pressure resignations of career prosecutors, in some cases FBI agents. Other people either who had been involved in helping Jack Smith with his investigation of the president, or simply who kind of got on the wrong side of the Justice Department leadership and were forced out through those needs.

And I think from Jack Smith's perspective, that sort of treatment of career prosecutors, of career FBI officials, again, it deviated from the way the Justice Department historically has operated. And that is really what led him to speak out now.

KEILAR: Yes, he talked about what he called lack of process in multiple cases as well, including the Comey case, including dropping charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. He said process shouldn't be a political issue. This is what he said about the Comey case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: This latest prosecution of the former director of the FBI, you know, there's a process to secure an indictment. But the career prosecutors, the apolitical prosecutors who analyzed this said there wasn't a case. And so they brought somebody in who had never been a criminal prosecutor on day's notice to secure an indictment a day before the statute of limitations ended.

That just reeks of lack of process. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think about his assessment?

DUPREE: Well, look, process is very, very sensitive topic to lawyers and to prosecutors in particular. Traditionally, the way the Justice Department operates and the process that he's talking about is that career prosecutors are the ones who are making these decisions, whether or not there is sufficient evidence to criminally charge someone. Historically, that's the way the Justice Department works.

It's a collaborative enterprise. Prosecutors sit around the table, they kick around the evidence, and they ultimately decide whether they have enough material to go forward. That's not what's been happening lately.

What we've been seeing is prosecutions directed by the very top of our government, by the President of the United States himself, which is a substantial deviation from the way that the Justice Department has historically done it.

So I understand what Jack Smith is saying about process. We live in a very different world now than we did just a few years ago about how these types of cases are brought.

And I think that ultimately is what really was chafing at Jack Smith and led him to start speaking publicly.

KEILAR: Yes, a lot of concerns he has about people leaving the department. Tom Dupree, thank you so much.

And ahead, sticker shock at the dealership. Have you seen this? The average cost of a new vehicle, it is going up. It's actually hitting a record high. So we'll look at what's behind the spike in those prices.

[14:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: People in the market for a new car are getting some sticker shock with some eye-popping prices. According to Kelly Blue Book, the average cost of a new car hit a record high last month.

KEILAR: CNN's Matt Egan is with us now from New York. I mean, wow, Matt, how much should people be expecting to pay here?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Boris and Brianna, if you are in the market for a new car, you should prepare for some sticker shock because cars have never been more expensive. So how expensive? Well, $50,000 expensive.

That is the average transaction price during the month of September, according to Kelly Blue Book. Now, for some context, that's up by 4 percent from the same month last year. Now, 4 percent, that's not a monster increase like what we saw during COVID, but this is the biggest annual increase in two and a half years. And when you look at the trend, you look back at this point of 2016, the average price of a new car was about $36,000. And then in 2021, during COVID-19, during that supply chain crisis and shortage of computer chips, it spiked to $45,000. And here we are now at $50,000.

Now, I should note that this is the average transaction price. So it's before incentives kick in, but still $50,000 is obviously a lot of money. And that's just the average.

I mean, if you're in the market for a full-size car, you're looking at $59,000, a full-size pickup at $66,000. And look at this, full-size SUVs, $76,000. So why is this happening?

Well, Kelly Blue Book says that one of the factors here is, yes, tariffs, right? It's not just those tariffs on cars, it's the tariffs on car parts. And the tariffs on critical components like steel and aluminum and copper that go into building cars.

Another factor is the fact that EV sales really surged during the month of September. In fact, EVs made up a record of nearly 12 percent of all cars sold in the United States during the month of September. And this is related to the fact that a lot of people were trying to beat the clock on the expiration of the federal tax credit for EVs that went away at the end of September.

But I do think that one of the other points here is just the fact that automakers, they're selling more expensive cars these days, right?

The $20,000 affordable car, it's kind of extinct now. It's just not profitable for companies to sell those cars. They're focused on the more profitable, expensive cars.

And so that does mean that a lot of cost-conscious consumers, they've been priced out of the market, right? They're often buying used cars. And that leaves more affluent buyers to buy the more expensive cars.

And so that has driven up ...

END