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Sanders, AOC Slam Dem Leaders For Not Backing Mamdani; Trump Details Decision To Authorize CIA To Operate In Venezuela; Federal Workers Express Shutdown Concerns In Latest TikTok Trend. Aired 7:30- 8a ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I do worry about the example it sets when our leaders do not support the party nominee because in the future we will need -- we will need folks to rally behind the presidential nominee.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): He is bringing people out who never voted. He is bringing Blacks and whites, and Latinos, and Asians -- everybody together around a really strong agenda talking about affordability in New York. What is not to like?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That, of course, from a CNN town hall. Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talking about how some national Democrats are not backing New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani.

With us now is CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers. Also, Republican strategist Melik Abdul.

Bakari, let me just start with you. You know, how do you balance that? How should national Democrats, do you think, balance the energy that Mamdani has versus the risk that some see with some of his positions?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE, ATTORNEY (via Webex by Cisco): First of all, I think you have to learn from Mamdani. I think that what he talked about is the biggest issue that we have in the country, which is affordability. The way that he took that message and he packaged that message and he was able to reach voters, as Bernie Sanders said, who usually are not touched by a Democratic message. He was about to do that.

But to AOC's point, it's a little rich because Mamdani is someone who didn't even support Kamala Haris for president. Mamdani is somebody who actually believes in the purity test that we're trying to move away from. And there are many people who have issue with whether or not he will

be a mayor that's inclusive for all of New York. Many people are questioning his ability to lead and whether or not he will be a good mayor during this time when you need somebody who is fierce and who is going to be a fighter. And whether or not he is going to somewhat renounce the positions he's taken when it comes to Jewish communities around the country.

And so I think those are questions that leaders have and those are questions that Mamdani has to answer if he's going to be a leader for all of New York City.

BERMAN: Melik, to what extent do Republicans have to be a little careful here of -- you know, be careful what you wish for? Because Democrats in the past have sort of wished for more radical Republicans to run against only to have it backfire for them in some cases because of the energy produced there.

What do you think, Melik?

MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think that's a fair point. And I'm going to be consistent with Bakari this morning. No need to fight. I'm going to agree with a lot of the things that he said. And you're right. We've seen similar things on the Republican side.

Now, I just say this. I'm a -- I'm a party guy and this is much to the chagrin of a number of people. I don't think that it's appropriate that any major Democrat shouldn't be, at this point, backing Mamdani. They -- of course, they should.

I understand many of the things that he's said in the past and many of the things that he's done in the past. He has, to some degree, denounced some of the things that he's said in the past, but I think that we're talking about a different era.

I think the Republicans have to be concerned about what does this mean, to Bakari's point, on the larger scale because he is talking about some of the many things that actually was responsible for Donald Trump being elected into office. Paying lowering prices. Having more money in your pocket. So he is talking about those things. And so Republicans do have to be concerned about it from a national perspective.

BERMAN: I'm a different kind of party guy. I prefer chips and nachos at all my parties. If they're there, then I'm good.

Bakari, I want to play for you some sound of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez being asked about whether or not she's basically going to primary Chuck Schumer and whether Schumer is pushing this shutdown to try to avoid that -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: It is, honestly, astonishing to me that the Speaker of the House would waste his time on something so inane and silly instead of actually worrying about his own constituents who are suffering at the hands of his leadership.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: But are you saying that Sen. Schumer should not be worried about a primary challenge from you?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I'm -- no. Because I don't think this is about --

SANDERS: Let me jump in on this one. Let me -- this is --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: This is what I'm talking about.

SANDERS: It's exactly what we're talking about.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: This is what we're talking about.

SANDERS: You have a country that is falling apart. You have a housing crisis, a health care crisis, an education crisis. Massive income and wealth inequality and corrupt campaign finances. And the media says are you going to run? What are you going to run for? Nobody cares.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: No answer detected there I will note, Bakari. But let me shift this if I can.

SELLERS: Oh, no. Listen, that's not --

BERMAN: Hang on. Hang on.

SELLERS: That's not true, John. She --

BERMAN: Look --

SELLERS: -- answered the question.

BERMAN: But she didn't say yes or no.

SELLERS: She said no.

BERMAN: She didn't say -- she didn't say no, that she wasn't running against --

SELLERS: She said no.

BERMAN: She didn't say no; she wasn't going to run against Chuck Schumer.

SELLERS: She did say no.

BERMAN: She did -- what she did say is she said the focus should be somewhere else.

SELLERS: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: She absolutely did not rule out a primary campaign against Chuck Schumer there.

SELLERS: She said no.

[07:35:00]

BERMAN: She said she didn't think his motivations were about it.

But this is the issue -- Bakari, what I want to get to is generational politics in the Democratic Party, and I'm looking right at you here. Because obviously, you have this possibility of Congresswoman Cortez running against Chuck Schumer. In Massachusetts you have Congressman Seth Moulton who may primary Sen. Ed Markey.

In Maine you've got this race between Janet Mills, the incumbent governor who may run for Senate. I think we actually pictures of these people we can put up. Janet Mills, the incumbent Democratic governor who may run for Senate there. And Graham Platner right there may run against her.

Bakari, for the Democrats, how important is it to have a generational shift?

SELLERS: Oh, very important. I used to say that the Republicans gave breath to the young people in their party. I remember the "Young Guns." I don't know if we remember the "Young Guns" -- Eric Cantor, Matt Ryan, Kevin McCarthy. All of them have since been fired. But there was a Bobby Jindal, a Marco Rubio, a Nikki Haley, the former governor of -- oh, I mentioned Bobbi Jindal -- a Ted Cruz, for example.

They actually gave breath to a lot of young individuals coming into leadership in their party. And the Democratic Party, for a long period of time, was extremely old.

And what I think people are realizing now is that leadership right now, regardless of age, is not meeting the moment. Whether or not it's Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer, the question is are they prepared for this moment. And so you're going to see a new wave of young people run and I'm glad to see this. I'm glad to see younger members come into the CDC. I'm glad to see youngers members challenged for the caucus, and you're going to see that.

I mean, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a part of the future of the Republican Party. I think her sitting next to Bernie Sanders shows you the dichotomy of what was and what could be, and I think we're going to have of that. Seth Moulton, another example. And people are going to have challenges as they go forward.

BERMAN: Melik, quick last word on that?

ABDUL: Yeah. I think that it will be eventually a problem for the Democratic Party. They've had a number of people, whether it was Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman. So they've had younger people in the party. But I think on both sides, both Republican and Democrat, it is time for people to actually move on.

And at a time where Congress is closed -- even though they still are getting paid, the government is shut down -- the people who are responsible for closing our government down at this point, I think that it's time for all of them to go.

BERMAN: Well, it's nice to be a part of this discussion on three young people here.

Bakari Sellers, Melik Abdul, I appreciate it very much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you, John.

New this morning Venezuela is condemning President Trump's comments as "warmongering" after Trump confirmed he authorized the CIA to conduct operations inside that country. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I authorized it for two reasons, really. Number one, they have emptied their prisons into the United States of America. They came in through the -- well, they came in through the border. And the other thing are drugs. We have a lot of drugs coming in from Venezuela. And a lot of the Venezuelan drugs come in through the sea.

REPORTER: Does the CIA have authority to take out Maduro?

TRUMP: Oh, I don't want to answer a question like that. That's a ridiculous question for me to be given.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: You heard there that Trump stopped just short of saying that they would have authority to remove President Nicolas Maduro.

Joining me now, CNN global affairs commentator Sabrina Singh, and Dana Stroul, former deputy assistant secretary of defense for the Middle East.

I'll start with you, Dana. The U.S., it's no stranger to covert operations in other countries. But what are your concerns about this very public and bold move towards serious meddling in another country's politics?

DANA STROUL, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST: Well, first of all, the United States doesn't have a great track record of covert operations overthrowing rulers in any country and the outcome actually being better for the region -- for the people of that country or for the security of the United States.

SIDNER: Oh, I'm so sorry. I thought that my mic went -- or my earpiece went down -- all right.

Sabrina, I'm curious from you -- Trump is meeting with the Ukrainian president Friday, who he says wants to go offensive, as he put it, on Russia.

In the meantime, we heard this from Defense Sec. Pete Hegseth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Firepower -- that's what is coming. We expect it is coming from NATO. You get peace when you are strong, not when you use strong words or wag your finger. You get it when you have strong and real capabilities that adversaries respect. And I believe that's what NATO is doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Do you think this indicates the U.S. is now leaning towards Ukraine getting weapons like those Tomahawk missiles that can strike deep inside of Russia?

[07:40:00]

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR, FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY (via Webex by Cisco): Well look, it's a very different tune that we saw from the Pete Hegseth that went to the NATO death mint earlier this year today. At least there is now support from the United States saying that they are going to continue to supply Ukraine with arms. But what that arms -- those arms look like I think is still meant to -- you know, is going to be determined potentially by this Oval Office meeting between President Trump and President Zelenskyy.

Whether the Tomahawk missiles is something that the U.S. gives to Ukraine through NATO does remain to be seen but it's certainly another capability in their deep arsenal. It would give Ukraine more capability to conduct longer-range strikes.

But I think it's important to note that it's how these capabilities are all used on the battlefield that would have advanced Ukraine's fight against Russia. And at the end of the day this has been a long war. It's a slog. The battlefield lines really haven't changed that much in the past year.

And so ultimately, I think what we need to see is the United States using its diplomatic, economic, military mite to bring Russia to the negotiating table when Ukraine is also ready to do that but positioning Ukraine in the best position to negotiate to conclude an end to this war.

SIDNER: Speaking of which, Dana, Trump is saying that India's prime minister has assured him now that India will stop buying Russian oil. We haven't gotten confirmation from the prime minister. But he went on to sort of say look, the prime minister can't do this immediately, but the process is happening.

If that's true, how significant is that when it comes to the war in Ukraine and the funding of the war in Ukraine?

STROUL: It would certainly be very significant. Two of the most significant purchasers of Russian oil are India and China. And when you look at those two, the one that the United States obviously is favorable in terms of a strategic partnership is India. But I think President Trump's comments -- you know, he tends sometimes

to get out ahead of where the facts actually are and there seemed actually to be some backtracking and nuancing of that assertion from leadership in New Delhi yesterday. Because, of course, you can't just stop purchasing from Russia or any single source immediately or overnight. It takes a long time.

India is a huge population. Huge -- a very significant economic growth plans. And it needs energy to achieve and meet what the government is trying to provide for its people. So this isn't going to be an immediate thing.

And meanwhile, Trump has this priority in the meeting on Friday between President Zelenskyy and himself of what he can do further to pressure Russia to return to the negotiating table.

SIDNER: Um, let me ask you, Sabrina, about what's happening Israel. You have this issue where Hamas has not kept up its end of the bargain by returning all of the bodies of the deceased hostages. And we're seeing Israel respond, taking away half or so of the aid that has been sent into Gaza. And then we hear this from Trump that he says look, operations there could resume as soon as he says the word.

What do you think about how this is going down and what it says about this ceasefire deal and whether or not you think that it is precarious right now? That it could fall apart.

SINGH: Look, Trump put a lot of political capital on the line. I mean, he flew halfway around the world during a government shutdown to basically close this deal and say peace has been brought to the Middle East.

So there's a lot riding on this deal in terms of this administration wanting to see the ceasefire continue to hold and move into the next phases when it comes to not only the returning of remains of the bodies of those hostages that are still in Gaza but also what does a governing structure look like.

I think what's important here is that while Hamas has not necessarily met that deadline to return all the bodies, they were clear that it was going to take some time. It's something that is likely going to require the U.S. military, which has now surged personnel to Israel to help with some of that intelligence and recovery of some of those bodies.

But I think politically, this administration not only wants to see the ceasefire hold but there's still a lot that remains to be seen in terms of governance that needs to happen within Gaza. We don't know what a peacekeeping force will look like within Gaza.

And also, I think when you talk about Israel withholding aid, we cannot slide back. We cannot see this weaponization of humanitarian aid being withheld from Palestinians who need it -- who are innocent. Who actually don't want to see Hamas continue to govern within Gaza.

So look, there's a lot here. This deal could fall apart but I think this administration politically, especially for Donald Trump who we know has been pushing for that Nobel Peace Prize, wants to see it move forward and will keep applying that pressure to both sides.

[07:45:05]

SIDNER: Yeah, there is a lot riding on it for all sides.

Sabrina Singh and Dana Stroul, thank you both so much. Appreciate your time this morning -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning also, reality is setting in for federal employees -- those forced to show up to work without being paid for it right now -- millions of workers who often go without notoriety or recognition. And now, though, some are taking that frustration to social media to sound off to TikTok.

CNN's Clare Duffy tracking this one for us and she's here now. What are you hearing? What are they saying?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah. This is a fight that we've largely seen play out on this high-level among lawmakers on --

BOLDUAN: Totally.

DUFFY: -- Capitol Hill. But TikTok has emerged as this window where federal workers can give people a better sense of what it is that they do, why their work is so important, and also what it means for them to have this government shutdown --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

DUFFY: -- and to not be getting paid for their work right now.

There are now about 10,000 posts on TikTok under the hashtag #FEDERALEMPLOYEES --

BOLDUAN: Really?

DUFFY: -- as we've seen this growing trend. And it's everything from federal employees saying look at a day in my life as a furloughed federal employee to people showing what they're shopping for at the grocery store and how they're having to cut back on their spending.

There are also folks who are trying to address misconceptions about government work. I spoke with one air traffic controller named Ashton who said that he's been addressing questions from commenters about why he can't just stop showing up to work at the airport.

BOLDUAN: Oh, that's really interesting.

DUFFY: I also spoke to a federal worker named Aubrey who is -- works in public health. She told me, "I really want people to see that federal workers are real people, and their lives are being impacted. I felt like no one was hearing us or seeing us."

And so you really get the sense of how much they want people to understand the human impact of this even as lawmakers continue to sort of drag out this fight.

And, of course, there are some people who do hope to make some extra money on TikTok as their paychecks are not coming in. This is seen as a potential side hustle for people because they don't have a timeline for their next paycheck.

BOLDUAN: It is an interesting -- which I would say is different than any shutdown we've had in the past, which is just like the faceless -- putting a face to it in a way that we have not seen previously. This will be an interesting avenue for people to speak out --

DUFFY: Um-hum.

BOLDUAN: -- and how they are allowed to, and all -- you know, all the things that -- I think this is something really interesting to watch as this continues to drag on.

DUFFY: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: It's good to have you, Clare.

DUFFY: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, as always -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

Still ahead, new reporting on what appears to be hackers gaining control of the speaker system at four North American airports. We'll reveal the messages that they sent to passengers.

And later, meet a man who has explored the United States like few others have, hiking to the summits of 72 mountains in just 31 days. We will talk to him about his journey.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:52:08]

BERMAN: All right. New this morning one of the biggest bankers in the world warning about cockroaches.

CNN's Matt Egan is with us now. Not sure if he was being literal but I think Jamie Dimon was making an important point.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, he was -- he was. And he wasn't talking about making a late career change to pest control. Jamie Dimon was making a colorful analogy when talking about some recent troubling bankruptcies in the United States and the risk that there could be more trouble beneath the surface in financial markets.

Take a listen to what the JPMorgan CEO told Wall Street analysts earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN: My antenna goes up when things like that happen. And I probably shouldn't say this, but when you see one cockroach, there are probably more, you know. And so we should -- everyone should be forewarned on this one."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now look, Dimon is America's most powerful banker and he's no stranger to financial trouble in the United States, so when he speaks everyone does listen.

And so the first issue that he's referring to is the bankruptcy last month of a subprime auto lender called Tricolor, right? It went under. This crash was fueled by a lot of

risky loans. It was a lot of risky loans to borrowers with weaker credit scores. Also, driven allegedly by what one lawyer in bankruptcy court described as pervasive fraud of extraordinary proportion.

It really underscores this k-shaped economy where a lot of people are struggling right now. We just talked about it yesterday. Car prices have never been higher than right now. Some people are falling behind on their loans.

Even JPMorgan lost $170 million on this bankruptcy.

But then there was another bankruptcy also last month. This was an Ohio auto parts supplier called First Brands. They were built on these complex hidden loans. The creditor has claimed that as much $2.3 billion just vanished in this bankruptcy. The DOJ is reportedly investigating potential fraud here.

And, you know, John, history shows that sometimes trouble on Main Street can actually start in some shadowy corners on Wall Street. I mean, look at what happened in 2007. There were Bear Stearns hedge funds that went under.

BERMAN: Yeah.

EGAN: A lot of people kind of shrugged it off. But in hindsight those were the first of many shoes to drop in what would end up being the Great Recession.

I'm not saying that's going to happen here. This could just be one- offs, company-specific issues. We may forget about these bankruptcies in a year. But if nothing else, this has been a wake-up call, and it has certainly got the attention of the most powerful banker in the U.S.

BERMAN: And to be clear, the auto lenders are the cockroach in this metaphor.

EGAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Some of them.

EGAN: Well, in this -- in this instance the companies that went under, right?

BERMAN: All right, Matt Egan. Thank you very much.

EGAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Great explanation -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. New this morning look at this dramatic video. It's showing the moment a massive concrete grain silo elevator collapses in Illinois. You can see the corn spilling out in that huge cloud. It was about halfway up the silo the gash existed and huge clouds of dust.

[07:55:15]

As workers are -- you see them there running for their lives trying to keep from being crushed.

Officials say the bin brought down several power lines as well. Thankfully, nobody was hurt. The cause of the collapse under investigation.

All right. Apparent hackers took over the public address system at four airports in North American broadcasting pro-Palestinian messages and using graphic language to blast leaders of Israel and the United States. And, of course, it was caught on cellphone video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PSA: Netanyahu and Trump, Turkish hacker and cyber risk loan was here. Telegram channel cyber was one. Free, free Palestine. Free, free Palestine. Free, free Palestine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: This happened at the airport in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and three Canadian airports. The FAA and Transportation Department are now investigating that.

And a close call caught on camera. A woman pulled to safety by a security guard moments before a tram coming into the station almost hit her. This all happened in Turkey. Here is another angle from inside the tram. It turns out the woman was wearing headphones. She didn't hear or see the train coming. Thankfully, she's doing just fine this morning.

But it is a warning to all of us we've got to start paying attention. Don't look down at your phone. Don't have your headphones in when you're crossing the street. It can be really dangerous as we see here every day in New York, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank God for Good Samaritans though. Someone's looking out for them.

SIDNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: My goodness. OK, try this one on for size. These numbers on for size. Four hundred ninety hours, climbing all 72 accessible 14,000-foot peaks in the lower 48, meaning all told, you've traveled 3,200 miles and climbed more than 400,000 feet in 31 days. For perspective, it's a feat described as running a marathon and riding a Tour de France stage every day for a month.

And that is exactly what Spanish ultrarunner Kilian Jornet just completed -- a project that he calls "The State of Elevation." And seeing just awe-inspiring vistas and views all along the way, which he's provided to us and we're going to show as we welcome Kilian to join us now probably in the only place you should be -- outdoors, Kilian. It's really wonderful to meet you.

KILIAN JORNET, MOUNTAIN ATHLETE (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, thank you very much for having me here. It's been a great experience the last month.

BOLDUAN: I mean, amazing. The statistics -- the numbers are wild. Add to it you biked in between each of these climbs just adding to the challenge.

How does it feel to have a truly amazing feat completed?

JORNET: Um, it's always like kind of a lot of satisfaction of the -- of the memories that I have. But also like it's kind of sad when you finish something like that because you want to continue somehow. It feels like kind of small emptiness but that's the time, like, to reflect on everything that I have lived there. And the body feels good. That's the most amazing that the body really adapts to everything that you give. If you give enough time to adapt.

BOLDUAN: One way it was written about you, Kilian, is "Kilian Jornet has set a new benchmark in insane endurance feats."

I mean, what drives you? Is there a singular reason why you took this project on right now?

JORNET: Well, what drives me first is like this connection that we have with nature. And for me it has been always like climbing mountains. Mountains is where I feel home. It's where I feel like that I'm myself.

And then I really wanted to. I have been coming to the U.S. for many years to the races and to the projects. but I realized that I didn't really know -- knew the landscapes and the culture of many of the places, so I wanted to explore most of the western of the U.S. like on a way that it's slow enough, like biking and running, to be able to appreciate all of these landscapes and the people living on them.

BOLDUAN: I mean, if someone is watching they're going to think this man is superhuman, which you may well be. The tests are still out. But how would you respond to just this idea of -- I mean, could anyone do what you do if they put their time and energy into it? I don't think I could. JORNET: I think in some way, of course, like, for doing what I did. I have been spending like 30 years of my life training and preparing for things like that. You need to get the confidence and the -- and the navigate on the technical terrain to do all the efforts and the physical capacities.

But I mean, like, you don't need to go fast. You don't need to go in one month. You can do projects that in longer time. I think everybody can do in his way. And it's not at all like going faster, but it's about, like, the experiences that you live.

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