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Shutdown to Stretch into Next Week as Senators Leave DC; Senate Fails for 10th Time to Pass GOP's Funding Bill; Trump Authorizes CIA Action in Venezuela, Threatens Land Strikes; Federal Agents Seen Having Violent Encounters in Chicago. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The government shutdown is now set to stretch into next week. No votes are scheduled in the Senate tomorrow or over the weekend. Earlier today, the Senate once again failed to pass the Republicans funding bill on the 10th attempt.

Meantime, the House isn't even in session. But as Democrats and Republicans point fingers, Americans believe there's plenty of blame to go around. According to a new poll, 58 percent say that Republicans and President Trump share a great deal of responsibility for the shutdown, while 54 percent say the same can be said for Democrats.

Let's go live to Capitol Hill with CNN's Manu Raju.

[15:35:00]

Manu, a lot of anger, not enough to lead to a moment of bipartisanship, some form of consensus, some form of deal. Where do things stand now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a lot of finger pointing, a lot of frustration, a lot of back and forth, nowhere near a deal because no one is even talking about a deal right now. They, as you noted, Boris, the Senate is gone until Monday. The House has been gone since September 19th.

The Speaker has canceled session for three weeks, expected to do so next week and beyond, all in an effort to pressure Senate Democrats to vote for the Republican bill to reopen the government up until November 21st with no strings attached. But Democrats want strings attached. They are demanding an extension of expiring Obamacare subsidies in order for their votes to come along with this bill, because they say that they must be dealt with immediately in order to avoid a significant premium increase that many Americans will feel as soon as November 1st, when open enrollment begins.

But Republicans say there should be absolutely no negotiation on a separate policy matter until Democrats first vote to open the government. And I ask Republicans and Democrats today whether or not it is time to move off of those positions, given the fact that we are about to enter week four of this government shutdown with no end in sight, with so many Americans suffering, with thousands of Americans furloughed and not receiving paychecks. Is it time to move off their positions?

And the bottom line is the answer from both sides of the aisle is no.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Do you think it's time for the Republican leadership to negotiate with Democrats now?

SEN. KATIE BRITT (R-AL): No, look, we have said we will absolutely open the government. I mean, think about this. They are stopping people's paychecks, stopping people's paychecks, because they want to have a conversation.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): If we capitulate to their outrageous demands now, can you imagine what it'll be like then? I mean, this is bad behavior.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): That's the whole reason we need to come together. They are saying right now they won't negotiate. But that position is unsustainable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: And that's the belief among Democrats is they believe that ultimately Republicans will be forced to come to the table as Americans do are hit with these higher premium increases. But Republicans say that is just completely misreading the situation here. So what ultimately we will give that is really unclear at this moment.

Today, the Senate voted again on that Republican bill that passed the House last month to reopen the government. Democrats for the 10th time blocked that bill. Just three Democratic members voted for that bill.

They need eight in order to come along. There are no signs that they're anywhere near eight. So a very grim moment here as the government shutdown drags on with real fears as it could well beyond Halloween, even beyond Thanksgiving, if there is no possible deal in sight -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And beyond that November 1st date when so many open enrollments start and people realize they're going to be paying a lot more potentially for their health insurance. Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill. Thank you so much -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And we're joined now by Chuck Todd, host of the Chuck Toddcast. I mean, Chuck, these guys and gals, they're just so dug in here. How do you see it?

Who's got the upper hand? And how might that change over time as open enrollment for insurance gets underway?

CHUCK TODD, HOST, THE CHUCK TODDCAST: Well, you know, this is a reminder that both parties have their own feedback loops now. Right. There is not a we don't have a shared information ecosystem or at least as as widely shared of an information ecosystem as we did even five years ago, as we did the last drawn out shutdown during Trump's first term.

And I think that's feeding into this. Right. You know, Democrats are hearing in their media ecosystem that they're winning and Republicans are hearing in their media ecosystem that they're winning.

So I do think that that is, you know, that that is driving a little bit of this. But, you know, that's a question. And I think Democrats have to figure out how to declare victory here.

I think that they've accomplished if -- let me put it this way. If the goal was to bring the issue of Obamacare subsidies to the main stage, try to make it more front and center. And in Trump's world, nothing gets sold.

You know, nothing is front and center on its own. But if you wanted to bring it up, they've successfully done that. They've got Marjorie Taylor Greene worried about it.

There's clear that there's a whole bunch of Republicans ready to talk about it. The question is whether they're going to have the stomach to watch what Russell Vought does at OMB. The fact that the president is not involved in these talks yet.

And that's the Democrats biggest problem. Nothing is going to happen until Trump's involved. And right now he's got another summit that he's going to be worried about next week.

He's not worried about the shutdown.

[15:40:00]

He is -- does not -- he is not feeling the political pain. It's akin to he's got his hand on the hot stove, but his brain is telling him there's no pain. So don't worry about it.

And that's -- I think that's the trap the Democrats are in, because I think the longer this goes on, the less the health care issue stays front and center. It becomes more of a process issue. And then everybody gets blamed.

And I don't know what political upside the Democrats end up with the longer this goes on.

KEILAR: The president has said that by tomorrow, when you talk about Russell Vought, right, he says that he'll have a list of what he calls Democrat programs that are going to be permanently cut. And I wonder, you know, considering these kind of different feedback loops, how you think that's going to play for the president for Republicans, considering that actually, you know, a lot of government programs actually serve people of both parties?

TODD: Well, and this is something that I think that this is a -- the real life example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. You know, all of the -- you know, I did a whole analysis of this, you know, just just take cutting off funds to L.A., to Los Angeles. Donald Trump got more raw vote in Los Angeles County than he did in 15 states he carried.

And it's just one example. So they may be cutting off federal funding to quote unquote blue cities. But this money is not politically handed out.

It benefits everybody, including a lot of Trump voters. And like I said, there's a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump that live in New York City, live in Chicago, live in L.A. There are more Democrats than there were Trump voters, but there are more Trump voters in L.A. County than in 15 states that he carried places like Arkansas and Idaho and Wyoming. And you get my drift here.

So I do think long term it doesn't help. But this is a case where the base of the Republican Party loves this. So, and the way this White House operates politically is if the base happy base is happy, then things are good.

They don't care what swing voters think right now. They may care down the road, but they don't care at the moment. And I think that's the problem Democrats are facing here, is that the pain points that normally work in politics to get your opponent to negotiate don't work the same way with Donald Trump.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something different because you had Admiral James Stavridis on Sunday night with Chuck Todd to talk about these U.S. missile strikes, these military strikes on these alleged drug boats out of Venezuela, now Colombia. The Pentagon insists, hey, this is totally legal, nothing to see here. How did Stavridis see it?

TODD: Well, you know, it's interesting, you know, he was the head of Southern Command before he was NATO Supreme Allied Commander, which means had he been -- he could have been -- a president, could have ordered him to do this. And he said if he got an order that he wasn't sure whether it was legal or not, he'd work with his his counsel.

My apologies. I have a new dog in my house and she --

KEILAR: That's OK.

TODD: She got a little excited.

KEILAR: We like her.

TODD: I thought we'd make it through the hit. But she's wonderful. She's brand new. She's a rescue. And you're welcome to meet her. Her name's Kelly. She obviously has very strong feelings about this, too.

So the point was, is that -- is that he wouldn't agree to execute a strategy without seeing the legal justification. So, you know, and if he didn't think there was legal justification, then he would have said that the proper thing to do is to resign. If you can't execute an order that you don't think is legal, the honorable thing to do is to resign. So he's assuming that the person in charge of the Southern Command did at least get a legal rationale and a legal explanation. But the problem here is Congress isn't getting it. We have no idea the justification of this.

And this is I have to say it's, you know, we're -- and Brianna, you've done this a long time too. It is shocking what doesn't get attention sometimes in this town. But in any other presidential administration, if you had had military strikes without really giving a justification to Congress, there'd be congressional hearings right now.

These would probably be televised congressional hearings. And this is just the blip on the agenda of Washington.

KEILAR: Yes, no, it is a huge issue, though, and certainly not the last that we've heard of it. Chuck, always great to have you on. Chuck Todd, thank you so much.

TODD: I apologize for bringing a second guest with me, but thanks for being a comment.

KEILAR: We don't mind. We like dogs and cats, but mostly dogs, as Boris will tell you on this show. Thanks, Chuck.

And still ahead, a judge says federal immigration officials in Chicago must now wear body cameras after a series of violent encounters between agents and residents are caught on tape. We're live from Chicago with some new details.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: A federal judge in Chicago is demanding answers from the Trump administration after seeing a series of violent encounters between immigration agents and members of the Chicago community.

One of the disturbing incidents captured on video shows masked agents chasing people through a Walgreens and then tackling a black teenager.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the f*** out of here. Get the f*** out of here.

[15:50:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's an American.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a citizen. He's a citizen. He's a citizen. That's my brother-in-law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get away from me. You don't know what's going on. So get the f*** out.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: So this chaotic and disturbing scene unfolded -- for some more context here -- after a car chase that ended like this -- with Border Patrol agents in a white SUV crashing into that red vehicle as part of an immigration enforcement operation. Two people inside the red car running from the scene. And when crowds started to gather at the corner where the crash happened, federal agents ended up firing tear gas.

So a lot happening in this scene. CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild is in Chicago following this. Whitney, last week, a judge limited the type of force that agents could use.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, this was a pretty clear, you know, pretty clear order that was meant to restrict how federal agents are using chemical munitions and how they are using force against peaceful protesters and members of the press. That order came before this incident that you're looking at on your screen. It came a week ago on Thursday.

And the context of that order was over several weeks. What we've seen are clashes between federal law enforcement and peaceful protesters at the Broadview ICE Facility. That's about 30 minutes west of Chicago.

And what we saw there were, you know, peaceful protesters, members of the press, members of the clergy being pepper-balled over many days, Brianna.

And so what happened, this this all sort of came to a head when a CBS Chicago reporter says that she was pepper-balled by DHS agents while she was sitting in her car, which created obviously a very dangerous. situation. The -- you know, several organizations, including the union that represents journalists here in Chicago, filed a federal lawsuit to try to limit how these federal agents were acting in these scenarios.

And a judge agreed to the restraining order and laid out again in detail that federal agents were not to use chemical agents against peaceful protesters and members of the press. They were not to use excessive force. And then, Brianna, on Tuesday is what you saw there, that another clash between members of the public and federal agents, as well as that video we showed, had this judge very concerned.

So she brought these parties back into court, reiterated the need for, you know, to abide by the restraining order, and now says that she wants agents wearing body cameras. They need to be recording. She admits that, you know, she's a little flexible here.

She admits that, you know, there may be some limits. But for the most part, Brianna, that was the big takeaway. On Monday, we expect to see the ICE field director in court to answer questions from that judge -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Wow. What a scene. What a scene we're seeing there in Chicago. Whitney Wild, thank you for the very latest.

And coming up, Trader Joe's caught in a sticky situation. The trademark lawsuit over a PB&J sandwich stolen at the store.

We'll have details when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: NOAA is out with its seasonal forecast from the National Weather Service.

SANCHEZ: Here's CNN meteorologist Chris Warren with the official predictions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: NOAA did release its winter outlook, and it does say that La Nina is back. Now, it's relatively weak and it's not going to last very long, but it is expected to influence the weather across the U.S. in the coming months. So La Nina, it's the cooler waters here near the equator, while there's also this specific what's being called the blob.

It's kind of this blob of warmer than average water. And water temperature is important because it's at the surface. And the surface temperature, whether it's land or whether it's water, in this case, the big Pacific Ocean, it's a lot of surface.

It can influence the weather patterns. In particular, it can influence the jet stream. So with that, in a typical La Nina weather pattern, this is what we tend to see.

The jet stream bumped up a little bit where the Pacific meets the U.S. here in the Pacific Northwest tends to be a little bit wetter, also a little bit wetter here throughout parts of the Ohio Valley. This is typical.

Now, this is the forecast from NOAA for this winter, the temperature outlook showing likely below average. So this is all about the chances that things can happen here. So likely a little bit cooler than what you might expect in typical winter in the northern tier. Likely a little bit warmer to the south and from the southwest to the southeast. Meanwhile, across the northern tier, that's where things are expected to be a little bit wetter than average.

Pacific Northwest, the Northern Rockies, the Northern Plains, also around the Great Lakes. Now, we are expecting, again, temperatures to be a little bit warmer than average. So while the northeast in a typical La Nina year can see more snow, in this case, that's still up in the air because it could be just a little bit warmer than average as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right, thanks to Chris Warren for that report.

So the peanut butter jelly sandwich is an American classic, but now it's also at the center of a major lawsuit. The J.M. Smucker Company is suing Trader Joe's, alleging that it's crustless PB&Js are too similar to its Uncrustables brand.

KEILAR: Smucker says they both have the same pie-like crimpings -- you see them there. And the Trader Joe's boxes borrow too much from the Smucker's style, with a juicy bite taken out of the sandwich.

[16:00:00]

And Smucker's doesn't just want payback. Check this. It wants Trader Joe's to ship all of its remaining product to Smucker's to be destroyed.

SANCHEZ: That sounds like a huge waste of some delicious PB&Js.

KEILAR: I love a good PB&J.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Why don't they just --

KEILAR: And make them every day for my kids.

SANCHEZ: -- donate them to us. Do you take the crust off? Is that what they prefer?

KEILAR: Either way. Crustable, Uncrustable. Either way.

SANCHEZ: Either way.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

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