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Interview with Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA): Trump Meeting with Zelenskyy at White House; GOP Rep.: Office Targeted with Flags Depicting Vile Symbol. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): ... undermining Zelenskyy and Ukraine, which is certainly a huge improvement from where we were at at that first meeting, what, six months ago now. So that's a step in the right direction. You've seen Secretary Hegseth, you know, use rhetoric that holds Russia accountable for the war.

Secretary Bessent was complaining about China giving too much support to Russia during the war. So the tone of the Trump administration seems to be a little bit better. I do worry about this next meeting with Putin.

What is he going to get out of it? But every time he meets with Putin, he seems to back off of the one thing that he needs to do, which is put pressure on Putin, whether it's through selling Tomahawks or putting sanctions on him. You know, that's the pressure that Putin needs to get him to change his mind.

President Zelenskyy is right right now. Putin doesn't want to end the war. He wants to win the war.

Got to change his mind on that by making it clear that he can't win the war. And President Trump could help push Putin in that direction.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: From this call that Trump had with Putin yesterday, what did you think of Putin's reasoning on the call that Tomahawks, which obviously could put Moscow and St. Petersburg in range for Ukraine, would have no significant impact on the battlefield, but he said they would damage the U.S.-Russian relationship severely?

SMITH: Yes, I don't believe the first part. He wouldn't have made the call after President Trump made the threat to sell the Tomahawks or give the Tomahawks to Ukraine if he didn't think it was a problem. And also just from a military standpoint, it would clearly be a problem.

Now, look, Zelenskyy and Ukraine are already able to reach Moscow and St. Petersburg with drones. They've done that effectively. But this could certainly put even more pressure on Russia.

So no, I don't believe President Putin when he says that Tomahawks would not have an impact on the battlefield. KEILAR: And our Jim Sciutto and Zach Cohen are reporting about some of the other contributions to consider, right? There's a strategic shift in intel sharing with Ukraine, including sharing information on targets that are inside of Russia, as Ukraine has adopted this very concerted approach of targeting Russian energy infrastructure.

How necessary are these Tomahawk missiles? How do you see what the president has done to increase some of those contributions since the Alaska summit?

SMITH: Yes, I think the Tomahawks would be helpful, but I don't think they're decisive. A very underreported story here in the last month or so is the degree to which Ukraine has really stopped Russia in their tracks in eastern Ukraine. You know, two, three months ago, there was like this sort of inevitability.

Russia's gaining, you know, however small amount of ground, but it's sort of relentless and inevitable. They've been stopped. And also Ukraine has been able to really inflict damage on Russia's energy infrastructure. It's having an impact.

Russia's economy is in trouble. So the war has really shifted in the last month or two in Ukraine's favor and against Russia.

And the reason that's important is because it gives us the opportunity to get to peace in an end of the war. It gives us an opportunity to make it clear to Putin and Russia they are not going to achieve their objective of taking over Ukraine. It's time to negotiate.

KEILAR: So I want to ask you about the shutdown. Republican chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, Mike Rogers, said this about the National Nuclear Security Administration just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-AL), CHAIR, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: In the group that handles and manages our nuclear stockpile, that the carryover funding they've been using is about to run out. They will have to lay off 80 percent of their employees. These are not employees that you want to go home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What is your reaction to that?

SMITH: I think the shutdown is a major problem that's only going to get worse day after day. Certainly the NNSA is part of it, but the broader defense establishment is going to be impacted, as are all manner of different services across this country.

But, you know, I have a lot of respect for Mike Rogers. I work very closely with him. I would ask him to tell Mike Johnson, bring the House back in session. Mike Johnson has shut down the United States House of Representatives.

I'm here. Republicans are not here, all right. If we want to get this government open, negotiate with us.

I said a couple days ago, you know, Trump will negotiate with Hamas and Putin in North Korea, but he won't negotiate with Democrats. It's just, here's our budget, take it or leave it. We're supposed to negotiate.

As long as they need Democratic votes, which they do in the Senate, then they have to talk to us if we're going to resolve this. So I would say, Mike Johnson, stop shutting down the United States Congress. You know, we need to get back in session and we need to start negotiating to end this shutdown, which is a major problem for this country. No doubt.

KEILAR: Congressman Adam Smith, thank you so much for being with us today. We really appreciate it.

SMITH: Thanks for the chance.

KEILAR: Still to come, more on this meeting between President Trump and President Zelenskyy. The two leaders meeting at the White House right now, and we will discuss that with our panel next.

[14:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We're back now with our panel as we monitor the breaking news. The ongoing meeting between President Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine at the White House. We're joined now again by our panel.

[14:40:00]

Thank you so much for sticking around with us. Jim, I'm curious to get your thoughts on what Zelenskyy said regarding drones, offering the U.S. drones as a potential incentive for a return of U.S. Tomahawk missiles.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: They're already sharing. They are. And the U.S. is learning a great deal from drone warfare. And not just the U.S., by the way. China is watching very closely. And I'm sure Russia is sharing what it wants, too, with China and Iran, too.

It is a -- it's become a laboratory of drone technology, this war. We've seen the dawn of drone warfare here. And Ukraine has really developed so much of this on their own, right?

And the U.S. is behind. There's no question. I speak to the various services.

They're all pushing into the drone space, but they just don't have the numbers. They don't have the experience. Ukraine is experimenting with it in real time to great success and holding back a much larger invading army. So Zelenskyy is absolutely right. There's much that it could share in terms of technology and hardware. And I'm sure, I know that the services are interested in getting that.

And I'm sure that Trump would be as well. So it's not an undue, you know, offer of a quid pro quo.

KEILAR: Yes, a sense that this could go two ways here in terms of the assistance. I wonder as we look towards this meeting in Hungary, and we heard a little bit -- you know, we heard a lot about it during this discussion in the cabinet room.

And Trump was sort of talking about how it would be two bilats -- is sort of how he set it up. What did you take away from what this is going to look like?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: So he keeps saying that they don't like each other. Trump says that Putin and Zelenskyy don't like each other. Right.

I mean, Zelenskyy is leading a country that Putin has killed many of his people, of his citizens, not to mention his soldiers. So it's probably difficult to get him in the same room. Zelenskyy has said he'll sit down and talk.

Zelenskyy has said he'll be there. Putin has not. Putin does not recognize that this is going to be.

So that's why Trump may be talking about two bilateral rather than one trilateral.

KEILAR: Can we ask, you know, what is it like for Zelenskyy to sit in that room where last night Putin has strikes raining down on his hometown, clearly to make a point before he comes to the White House? And he's here listening to they don't like each other. What's the effect of that?

TAYLOR: So Ukrainians hate it that their president, Zelenskyy, is going to sit down and talk with Putin. They don't like that. They hate Putin.

But Zelenskyy is taking some real risk and showing some courage to sit there -- to offer to sit down with Putin. And as you say, Putin is not making it easy. He is just barraging, bombarding the Ukrainians every night.

SCIUTTO: There's a framing of this war that Trump always sticks to is that this war happened, that a war happened. He does not say the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine. Right.

For the second time, going back to 2014 and again in 2022, Russia attempted to absorb a country by force of arms. Trump describes it as a thing that happened while he wasn't president and oftentimes will direct more fire at President Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin as if, you know, it was Biden's fault for this war to happen, but not Putin, as if it's two equal players here in this. And to that same point, no acknowledgment that what's at the root of that bad blood.

The root of the bad blood is spilled blood of tens of thousands of Ukrainians, men, women and children. That's not just, you know, a business dispute, right, or difficult, conflicting personalities. It's the result of a bloody invasion.

SANCHEZ: Jeff, I wonder how you would rate the potential for success, given what we know about the format of a potential meeting in Hungary, this sort of double meeting or a double overlapping bilat. How do you think that's going to work out?

JEFFREY EDMONDS, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR RUSSIA, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Near zero, honestly. I don't think Putin believes if he does, if he continues to do what he's doing in Ukraine, he's eventually going to win. He hasn't changed any of his goals.

I don't think he'd meet with Zelenskyy. It would be a huge concession on his part. He doesn't even recognize Zelenskyy.

One of their goals, stated goals, is regime change. So that would be a pretty awkward meeting when you think about it. And so I just don't think there's -- I think Putin is just trying to play Trump.

And I think he's just trying to delay this as much as he can.

SANCHEZ: Major Lyons, I wonder, do you, given that after the summit in Alaska and the lack of tangible results toward a resolution, the administration allowed Ukraine to go after Russian energy infrastructure and resources. Is that enough to alter the course of a negotiations or is the actual delivery of Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine what will get Putin to finally end this war?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Boris, that was a slight escalation only, but I just don't think Donald Trump feels it like he did in against Hamas, where he had a clear leverage advantage over them.

[14:45:00]

He doesn't feel that there's enough leverage over Russia, even delivering Tomahawks. It's going to take that plus the economic sanctions in order to possibly feel that there's some kind of leverage against Russia.

But it's so -- you know, it's not tangible to him enough for him to kind of go forward with it.

So, no, I think that to say we're going to deliver Tomahawk weapons, we're going to have to deliver hundreds of them, not just five or six. When we were providing Patriot batteries, for example, we were caviling over whether we're going to send three or four. The kind of weapons that have to be deployed in order for Russia to feel any kind of leverage, every kind of pressure is going to have to be in the hundreds when it comes to that system.

Plus, those economic sanctions, hard power with going with diplomacy. And again, I don't think he feels it because he doesn't know what's the next step after that. He doesn't know what card he plays after he does deploy Tomahawk weapons.

KEILAR: Jeff, what would that look like? Take us through. I mean, if Tomahawks are something, I mean, it's not the end all be all, but it's something that got Vladimir Putin on the phone.

If Ukraine had that at its disposal, what then are we watching happen on TV? What then are people in Moscow, St. Petersburg experiencing? What would that look like?

EDMONDS: So I think when you look at Russian refined fuels, they're the lowest they've been since 2022. And in large part, that's because of Ukrainian attacks against energy infrastructure inside Russia. The different -- the main difference between the Tomahawks and the missiles that Ukraine has now is that they're much -- the range is much longer, right? With a much larger warhead.

And so I think you would see greater attacks against Russian energy infrastructure. And while they may not fundamentally change the battlefield, I do think it would really increase the pressure on Putin.

SANCHEZ: And quickly, Jim, to the thought that providing these Tomahawks to Ukraine might somehow deprecate or limit U.S. capabilities. Is that actually the case?

SCIUTTO: Well, it is true that our industrial base is just not at a place, even with years of attempting to address it, to produce enough missiles for the possibility, right, of a conflict with Russia or China. I mean, you would just deplete them so quickly.

So it's not -- it's not an unfair point for the president to make. And he's made it about previous systems. I think he said quite the same thing when he was talking about sending more air defense missiles.

He's like, yes, well, we need Patriot missiles, too, which is true to some extent. But I suppose one could say they really need them now.

TAYLOR: But but it's also true that we've been manufacturing Tomahawk missiles since the 70s. We deployed them first in the 80s. There are a lot of them out there.

There are a lot of those out there. And there's not just the United States. There are several of our allies have Tomahawks as well.

KEILAR: Yes, very interesting point. Thank you guys so much for that discussion. Really appreciate it. And we'll have much more on this meeting at the White House next hour.

And another story that we are following this afternoon, a congressman says some Republicans were sent American flags with a vile image hidden on them. We have the latest on this investigation.

[14:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Congressman Dave Taylor of Ohio is claiming that his office was targeted after an American flag altered to include a swastika was found in his office earlier this week. Taylor says that similar flags have been found in other Republican offices and that a full scale internal investigation was held. He refrained from identifying the swastika, instead calling it a, quote, vile symbol.

CNN senior reporter Annie Grayer joins U.S. now. So, Annie, what do we know about the incident and the other offices that were targeted?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Boris, this investigation is ongoing both by Taylor's office and by the United States Capitol Police. So just to backtrack on how we got here. On Wednesday, Congressman Taylor released a statement that his office had found a, quote, vile and deeply inappropriate symbol in his office and was immediately investigating it. Taylor denounced it immediately and said Capitol Police was also investigating it.

But then -- and this was after Politico had reported that an American flag with an alleged swastika in the middle of it was identified behind a staffer's desk. But then last night we got a new update where now Taylor -- Republican Congressman Taylor is claiming that this may be a, quote, ruse. Let me read for you a part of his statement that he put out last night.

He said, quote, "Numerous Republican offices have confirmed that they were targeted by an unidentified group or individual who disrupted American flags bearing a similar symbol, which were initially indistinguishable from an ordinary American flag to the naked eye. My office was among those that were subjected to this ruse," end quote.

Now, no other offices are named in this statement and no other offices have come forward since then. But Taylor says he's confident that no one in his office would knowingly display this symbol and has again denounced the existence of such a such a thing in his office.

But this investigation remains ongoing. I've reached out to Capitol Police about their investigation, but because of the government shutdown, their public information office remains closed.

So this is an investigation we're going to be following closely as it continues to make unexpected turns here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we'll see where this investigation goes. Annie Grayer, thank you so much.

After a quick break, we're going to turn back to the White House and that meeting between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. That is ongoing. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

[14:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour. OpenAI says you'll no longer be able to create videos of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on its artificial intelligence tool, Sora. The company had received backlash over what critics called disrespectful depictions of the civil rights icon.

In a statement, OpenAI says while it supports free speech, public figures and their families should have control over how their image is used. The company just launched Sora 2, which lets users make AI generated videos using real and historical people.

Also, heroic officers acting quickly in Los Angeles, California Highway Patrol rushed to the scene of this car fire. They began using their batons to break the windows. Inside they found an unconscious driver. They managed to pull the person out before those flames took over.

Right now, we don't know what caused the crash and we do not know the condition of the driver.

And an investigation is underway after a Pablo Picasso painting vanished right before it was set to go on exhibit in Spain. Authorities say the 1919 work called Still Life with Guitar arrived at the Caja Granada Cultural Center the Friday before the exhibition.

But the exhibit's curator discovered that the painting ...

END