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Commander Overseeing U.S. Forces in Caribbean to Retire; U.S. Says It's Striking Drug-Trafficking Boats Tied to Venezuela; Bolton Pleads Not Guilty to Mishandling Classified Information; Trump Meeting with Zelenskyy at the White House; Prince Andrew Gives Up Royal Titles After Series of Scandals. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 17, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL), OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY COMMITTEE: Well, let's also be very clear, drugs coming into our country, no matter where they come and how they come, none of that's going to be tolerated. I would also say that this might be -- no pun intended -- an opening salvo about how the United States might take a stronger stance when it comes to drugs coming into the United States, which are killing our people and are, frankly, destroying families in our country. So the president, in my view, is doing the right thing by using the military might of the United States to defend the people of the United States.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Congressman Byron Donalds, we have to leave the conversation there. Look forward to the next one.

DONALDS: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, the U.S. commander overseeing strikes on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean is stepping down after less than a year on the job. At the same time, we're learning the U.S. is holding a pair of survivors from one of those strikes. We'll discuss next.

[15:35:00]

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The military commander overseeing U.S. Southern Command and the Pentagon's escalating attacks on alleged drug boats off Venezuela's coast is retiring barely a year into his tenure. One source tells CNN tensions have been simmering for weeks between Admiral Alvin Holsey and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, and that Hegseth did not believe the admiral was moving aggressively enough to take on alleged drug traffickers in the Caribbean.

Today, according to Reuters, relatives of a Trinidadian man believed killed in the U.S. military strike on a boat in the Caribbean this week are demanding the U.S. provide evidence to back up President Trump's claim that those who died were trafficking drugs.

Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Admiral James Stavridis joins U.S. now. He served himself as a commander of USSOUTHCOM. He is also a partner at Carlisle Group, an international investment firm, and he serves on the board of advisors for a handful of defense-related companies.

Thank you so much for being with us, Admiral. First off, just put this into context for us. How unusual is this, and why would a commander of SOUTHCOM retire well ahead of schedule in the controversial offensive of questionable legality?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: It's very unusual. The last one I can think about was just under 20 years ago. That was Admiral Fox Fallon at U.S. Central Command. He had policy disagreements with the administration at the time about how to approach Iran.

But for a combatant commander, normally he or she would be in the job three years minimum. I was four years as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, three years Commander of Southern Command. So, Brianna, very unusual.

I don't have any insight. I haven't talked to Admiral Holsey, but certainly one would think he would be considering whether he wanted to continue in the job.

The Secretary of Defense might have decided he wasn't the right person in the job. We're just going to have to get more information, but it's a highly unusual situation.

KEILAR: Trump had said just a short time ago at the White House that this was a submarine that was struck in this latest case where someone survived. He said, I don't know too many people who have subs. You have said that there is reason to worry about whether the Geneva Conventions are being adhered to with these strikes on alleged drug vessels.

Why do you think the strikes might be illegal?

STAVRIDIS: Well, let's start with the submarines. I'll tell you who do have submarines are drug runners. I captured any number of them when I was Commander of Southern Command.

They build these kind of primitive but somewhat effective semi- submersible in effect submarines. So, it's not in any sense unusual to have one of those involved in the drug trafficking. I think it is also correct to say if it is a semi-submersible running through the Caribbean, that's almost a guarantee it is a drug runner.

But here's the problem for the administration. They haven't provided any evidence to back up the claims that these drug runners are not only moving drugs toward the United States, but also are part of large, organized entities that have directed campaigns against our nation. And their argument is that drugs kill Americans, therefore we kill drug traffickers.

That has an attractive simplicity to it, but it doesn't in any way stand up unless you've got the intelligence. And finally, Brianna, this is where Congress ought to be involved because they can look at that classified information. They can help make a judgment as to whether these actions are legitimate under the laws of war in the Geneva Conventions or not.

KEILAR: What can you tell U.S. just about Admiral Holsey? A lot of people aren't going to know who he is. They certainly are going to probably know who he is now.

STAVRIDIS: Well, you can see he's African American. He is highly well regarded inside the U.S. Navy. He's a helicopter pilot.

He's operated in combat. And I think most to the point here, before taking over U.S. Southern Command, he spent close to three years as the deputy of U.S. Southern Command. So he has deep, deep experience in the region.

He enjoys a lot of respect from the Admiralty.

[15:40:00]

And I think universally, we're sorry to see him step aside, whatever the reason is.

KEILAR: And, you know, he's only been a four-star, an admiral, right, for about a year. So is that your understanding? He's actually giving up a star in retirement and he goes back to being a vice admiral for the purposes not only of honorifics, but, you know, benefits, et cetera?

STAVRIDIS: That'll be a decision for the secretary of defense. I think also the Senate gets a final call on that. So it's not certain, but as a general proposition, Brianna, you are correct.

He would have had to serve normally three years in grade in order to accrue the benefits, the title of admiral, and a full admiral's retirement. That'll be a decision the Pentagon will have to make.

KEILAR: Yes, I bring that up because it's a lot to give up for people who don't know. It's a lot to give up if you're going to step aside. What broader questions for you is this raising about how the military is being utilized and how it might react to how it's being utilized by our civilian leaders?

STAVRIDIS: The military as a group will always swear allegiance to the Constitution of the United States. They'll follow the Constitution, meaning they will obey legal orders, and I believe they will not obey illegal orders.

Whenever an order is on the border, as a senior officer in particular, you always have the option of declining to obey it. Put your stars on the table and walk away.

KEILAR: Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much for joining us on this very important story. We do appreciate it.

STAVRIDIS: You bet. KEILAR: Coming up, President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, making his first court appearance after being indicted for allegedly mishandling classified information. We're going to bring you the latest next.

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SANCHEZ: President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, today pleading not guilty to charges of mishandling classified information, 18 counts that he's facing in all. Prosecutors accuse him of sharing or retaining sensitive materials, including some classified as top secret.

KEILAR: Bolton is now the third high-profile Trump critic to be indicted over the last month, and he says he's a victim of weaponization by Trump's Justice Department.

Let's talk about this now with former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Congressman, I wonder what you think. Trump has explicitly accused Bolton of crimes and suggested that he should be prosecuted.

He hasn't, though, publicly pushed as hard for Bolton to be prosecuted, and you also, I think, what we're hearing in some reporting from prosecutors is they do think there's more of a case here than you would see with Letitia James or James Comey. What do you think?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, the irony of it is this is exactly what Donald Trump was charged with, and, you know, with classified documents issues after a year of not turning them over. Look, I think the context of this, obviously the court case is going to bear out the facts here. I think the concern is in the context of everything else.

So if it was just John Bolton, you know, out of nothing, it would be a little different than the fact that what you have is, you know, as you mentioned, James Comey, Letitia James, all in the same time period. And then you have Kash Patel, the director of the FBI, tweeting about this, which is obviously something that usually never happens. The FBI back in the olden days, like eight minutes ago, used to keep kind of quiet and let this stuff go into the court system.

And so it feels very political. Obviously, I think the court case will bear out whether or not it is, but it certainly feels that way.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, while we have you, we have to ask about the ongoing meeting at the White House. We understand it's still happening right now between President Trump and President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. Do you think the U.S. needs to send Tomahawk missiles to Kyiv in order to get Putin to end this war?

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, Putin is very concerned about it because he obviously reached out to Trump yesterday, did the old, you know, thing where he can now stall another couple weeks with Donald Trump. Tomahawk missiles are going to be very important. They're very accurate.

Now, what Russia is trying to say is, well, these can be nuclear capable, and so we don't know if a nuclear missile is coming in. But let's keep in mind, Boris, about 40 of those missiles are shot every day by Russia into Ukraine, missiles that could be nuclear capable. So it's kind of ironic that Russia would use that as any kind of an argument.

Hopefully Donald Trump comes out of this and says they can buy them at least soon. But we'll see.

KEILAR: There have been some other contributions of the U.S. since the Alaska summit, according to reporting by our colleagues, Jim Sciutto and Zach Cohen. There's been a strategic shift in giving more intel to Ukraine by the U.S., and that includes for targets inside of Russia so that they can target this energy infrastructure. It's notable.

I wonder, though, if you see this Hungary summit happening and not much comes out of it and Trump doesn't grant the Tomahawks, what's the impact then of that?

KINZINGER: Well, the impact is that Vladimir Putin will have won that round. I mean, here's the reality. Russians have lost over a million men, which is absolutely unthinkable, by the way. It's incredible. And gained almost no territory.

[15:50:00]

And so it's really whether their economy can grind through this. And we're seeing indications of their economy, and it's why these energy infrastructure hits are so important.

And so every time Donald Trump meets with Vladimir Putin, he gives a psychological win to Vladimir Putin. He convinces Putin he could still possibly win this war.

And what we've heard -- I saw this through some European intel reports -- that Vladimir Putin's people are telling him that the situation on the battlefield is much better than it actually is. And so if Donald Trump meets with him, that adds that kind of, I don't know, energy to Putin.

The big thing is to make it clear to Vladimir Putin; you can't win. We're going to sell Tomahawks. We're going to increase sanctions. You need to understand this now.

Vladimir Putin is a smart guy, and if he knows the situation is unwinnable, he'll look for a way out.

SANCHEZ: Pivoting back to domestic politics, Congressman, the No Kings protests are set to be held across the country, I think within 2,000 cities and towns. In response to this, President Trump made the argument that he is not a king. I wonder what you make of that back and forth.

KINZINGER: I mean, I think a number of months ago he kind of said he was, or there was some comment he made about that. I mean, look, whether you call Donald Trump a king or not, here's the interesting thing. I think the Constitution understood, the founders understood that there would be a guy like Donald Trump that would come along.

And so they put a Congress in place, a Congress that's supposed to be jealous of its own power. I think what the founders never estimated was that a Congress would so willingly give up its power like it has. And so is Donald Trump a king by definition?

No. Is Donald Trump a king by default? It feels like that sometimes, especially when he plays around with this idea that he's going to run again or not leave office, which I don't think is true, by the way. It's kind of a troll.

But yes, the problem here is not even so much Donald Trump -- although that is -- it's the fact that Congress has just kind of rolled over and let him do whatever he wants.

You can see this by the boat strikes in Venezuela. You can see it by everywhere else. It's really a sad thing.

And as a former congressman, it's sad to watch the institution be really discredited like it has been.

KEILAR: Yes, Adam Kinzinger, always great to speak with you. Thanks for being with us.

KINZINGER: You bet. Yep.

KEILAR: Next, some breaking royal news. Prince Andrew is giving up his royal titles. Hear why right after this.

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KEILAR: This Sunday, you can take your taste buds on a trip to southern France with an all new episode of the CNN original series, "TONY SHALHOUB, BREAKING BREAD."

SANCHEZ: Yes. Tony tries out some French classics like baguettes and other things I can't pronounce.

KEILAR: Bouillabaisse.

SANCHEZ: Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY'S BROTHER: How did you eat? What did you do?

JOE: I remember the food in France. It was delicious. Garlic and hummus and all.

TONY'S SISTER: Is that right?

JOE: Yes. I remember the bread.

TONY'S SISTER: Who fixed it? Who made it?

JOE: The odor, the smell.

TONY SHALHOUB, HOST BREAKING BREAD: I mean, you know, part of the reason why I wanted to do this food show was because I mean, he was great with food, with all kinds of all food. But bread was really his thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.

SHALHOUB: And just the fact that he says, I remember the bread. But now we're doing the bread.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

SHALHOUB: That is so amazing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Oh, be sure to tune in for moments like that and more. A new episode of "TONY SHALHOUB, BREAKING BREAD" premieres Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

So there has been a major announcement from the British royal family. The King's brother, Prince Andrew, says that he's giving up his royal titles following a series of scandals, including one involving the late pedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

KEILAR: The now former Duke of York, stepping back from royal duties in 2019 after Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre testified that she was forced to have sex with the Prince when she was underage. It's an allegation he has denied.

CNN's Max Foster has been following the story from the very beginning. Max, these accusations go back years. Why take this step now?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: So it seems as though the British royal family has finally had enough of the scandal engulfing Prince Andrew, which just does not seem to go away. All his associations with Jeffrey Epstein. They came up again more recently with a new set of e- mails published in the British newspapers.

According to Prince Andrew, in discussion with the King and my immediate and wider family, we have concluded the continued accusations about me distract from the work of His Majesty and the royal family.

I'm told by royal sources that the King, King Charles, Andrew's brother, is glad of the outcome. Now, what does this mean in terms of titles?

Because the reality is that technically Prince Andrew hasn't been stripped of any of his titles. He's just agreed to stop using them. Titles like the Duke of York. He has many other titles as well. He's going to stop using those titles, but they still exist.

Crucially, he will still be Prince Andrew because that title came to him at birth as the son, as the grandson of a monarch. So that won't go away.

He will still be living in his grand house on the Windsor Estate Royal Lodge. He has a private lease there. We're saying that isn't affected.

In terms of his public appearances. They're literally going to dry up. We have seen him at family events, not necessarily state events, but family events on camera. But we're told that this year he won't even be invited to Christmas.

So Prince Andrew, the scandal around Jeffrey Epstein has gone on and on and on. And he's agreed to basically give up his entire public role now.

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SANCHEZ: Our thanks to Max Foster for that update from the U.K.

An important note for you. We've just learned that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has departed the White House. These are images of Zelenskyy leaving the Oval Office.

The meeting was held in the Cabinet Room. It lasted over two hours. The crux of it, whether President Trump will send Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine, we'll keep following the story on "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt, which starts right now.

END