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VP Vance Visits Israel Amid Negotiations For Phase Two Of Ceasefire; Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC) On NC GOP Push For New Map To Gain House Seat; Appeals Court Rules Trump Can Send Troops To Portland. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

So the breaking news this morning, Vice President J.D. Vance has arrived in Israel. His visit comes at another critical moment for the region. There are growing concerns the Gaza ceasefire is on shaking footing.

The New York Times is now reporting from several Trump officials speaking on the condition of anonymity that there is concern within the administration that the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may vacate the deal.

The ceasefire did survive its first major test over the weekend when two Israeli soldiers were killed in Gaza and Israel responded with deadly airstrikes. That flareup led to, well, a new warning from President Trump to Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're going to behave and they're going to be nice, and if they're not we're going to go in and we're going to eradicate them if we have to. They'll be eradicated, and they know that. If they keep doing it, then we're going to go in and straighten it out and it'll happen very quickly and pretty violently, unfortunately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about where things stand right now. Joining me right now is retired Army Major Mike Lyons. It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

So this is kind of like a line that isn't, and maybe shouldn't yet be overly defined, if you will. Where is the point of no return in terms of violating a ceasefire? You've got this major test from over the weekend. But in your experience, at what point do you think Israel would go back in as the fear is that Netanyahu may want to vacate the deal and go back in and Hamas would then start back up?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, good morning, Kate. This is the tenuous part of this plan -- this ceasefire plan that Trump really coerced -- used leverage to coerce Hamas to sign it. And phase two now includes governance. Them giving up their weapons -- an international force coming into play to reinforce this. If you look at history, only times when you've had this reinforcement of security to make sure the ceasefire holds. If it doesn't, it just turns into a pause that, in this case, again the Israeli military likely has the advantage over.

So Trump wants this to succeed. He sent this team to go there. He's looking for more leverage to impart upon Hamas in order to maintain their part of the deal. But they control some of the smaller units that are out there still antagonizing the Israeli forces.

I think the United States has got to tell Israel that they have to let this go on for many more days and likely weeks in order to reinforce this situation before they decide to go back in full force.

BOLDUAN: And when you -- and when you think of reinforcing the situation and getting it to hold, I had retired Admiral James Stavridis on yesterday and he said that the key, in his view, for the Gaza peace plan to actually succeed is U.S. troops.

Let me play this -- how he explained it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: It is U.S. troops as leverage -- a small number of U.S. troops, Kate. In the context of previous deployments of 150,000 troops to Iraq or 100,000 troops to Afghanistan, no. But 3,000 U.S. troops -- a lot of them offshore on warships to operate helicopters. A lot of them doing the back-office work. You could use those 3,000 U.S. troops as leverage to get 30,000 Arab troops to patrol Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Is there any way around that? What do you think of that?

LYONS: Well, there's the operative word again -- leverage.

BOLDUAN: Right.

LYONS: I think that the admiral has a great point. We can't have U.S. troops on the ground there. That would immediately invoke mission creep and all the mistakes that the United States has made in the past 20 years.

But Egypt becomes the indispensable nation here, leading the security forces of those Arab nations on the ground. And we show the Arab countries that look, the United States is already in support of this mission. We already have those sailors and marines out in the Mediterranean out supporting this mission. They have been Israel's ally. So to say that the United States is not invested with its troops and its sailors is -- doesn't make any sense. We just have to make that much more known. I would just -- I don't believe we should put any U.S. troops on the

ground there. That would invoke a lot of bad things that the United States has not a great history of.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I think Stavridis agrees with you on that one.

In -- I mean, you've got this great framing today of kind of leverage and where it stands. Let's apply that to the latest developments with Russia and Ukraine.

You've got -- specifically, you've got the president seeming now to go back to being more in line with Russian thinking once again after his latest call with Putin. We've seen this kind of pendulum swing or head fake or whatever you want to -- whiplash -- whatever you want to call it so many times at this point. So many times. Now saying, you know, that he sees Ukraine ceding some territory to Russia and that the battle lines -- his news take seems to be that the battle lines should freeze.

Where is the leverage here at this moment?

LYONS: Well Kate, I don't think Trump feels the leverage in Ukraine like he felt it in Gaza and because of that he's willing to make these concessions, and he's hesitating.

[07:35:00]

He recognizes that the Tomahawk cruise missiles are not this leverage point that will make Russia negotiate. And he somewhat gave away their game when he first met with Zelenskyy a few months ago and he said, "You don't have the cards."

So the only leverage that the United States has there is with economic sanctions and pouring in military equipment. We'd have to pour in hundreds of Tomahawk cruise missiles in order for Russia to pay attention to that, not four or five like we did with some of the Patriot batteries that are there. Logistical support and sanctions by the other European countries would help.

But I think Trump looks at that as that's a too long solution. He wants to get to an endgame there quickly, as he speaks to all the time, but he knows he doesn't have the same leverage so he's hesitating -- looking for Zelenskyy to give up. He's given up that battlefield leverage, if he does that, because he just wants to get a deal done.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. The funny thing is you've got that bipartisan sanctions bill on Capitol Hill that they are now, once again, even though they said -- suggested they were going to be moving forward with it -- just yesterday now suggesting that they're going to pump the brakes on it once again, which you wonder what message they received from the White House on that one.

It's good to see you. Thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This morning tragedy averted in Atlanta. That is what the city's mayor is saying after police arrested a possible mass shooting suspect at the airport. The family of Billy Joe Cagle called police to report that he was armed, livestreaming on social media, and headed to the airport to "shoot it up."

Surveillance images show him walking around Hartsfield-Jackson -- well, the Atlanta airport's crowded south terminal before being confronted by officers. Police say they found Cagle's truck parked outside. He was not armed when he was arrested but police later found an AR-15 with 27 rounds of ammunition in his truck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ANDRE DICKENS, (D) ATLANTA: This individual did have a semiautomatic weapon, and this individual was mentally challenged. And when you have those combinations together it can turn out to be deadly.

CHIEF DARIN SCHLERBAUM, ATLANTA POLICE: I do believe that Mr. Cagle was headed back to his truck to retrieve it, and I do believe he was likely to use that weapon inside the crowded terminal that he had just seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Cagle is charged with making terroristic threats and possession of a firearm by a felon.

In Nebraska, pilots onboard an American Airlines flight made an emergency landing in Omaha after they could not reach flight attendants, and they heard someone knocking on the cockpit door. The flight was enroute to Los Angeles from Omaha but almost immediately turned around and landed just 18 minutes later. The FAA says the flight crew later learned it was actually a problem with the interphone system. They couldn't communicate with the cockpit and that's why they were knocking on the cockpit door.

Former President Joe Biden has finished a course of radiation treatment for prostate cancer. His daughter Ashley shared a video of him ringing the bell at Penn Medical -- Penn Medicine in Philadelphia -- a tradition marking the end of treatment. This round of radiation was part of a broader plan to fight what doctors call an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. Biden was diagnosed earlier this year.

And his office says he's feeling good and remains optimistic. It is unclear what his next treatment steps will be, but he is expected to appear in Boston this weekend to receive a lifetime achievement award.

This morning Kenny Loggins is angry. The legendary singer-songwriter, yacht rock icon, and overall gift to humanity is upset that President Trump is sharing an AI-generated video set to Loggins' famous "Top Gun" theme song "Danger Zone."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Trump's AI-generated video featuring "Danger Zone" that he posted on Truth Social as an apparent reply to the widespread No Kings protests that took place across the U.S. on Saturday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Loggins posted on his website that he was not asked to use his song. He would have said no. He wants it taken down. He also said, "I can't imagine why anybody would want their music used or associated with something created with the sole purpose of dividing us."

Kate, Kenny Loggins is a lover, not a fighter.

BOLDUAN: I mean, yacht rock is about love. Yacht rock is about love and yacht rock leads us to the sports. Would you like to say here?

BERMAN: I'll watch.

BOLDUAN: Oh, geez. Endorsement, hello.

This morning Blue Jays fans are flying high after a comeback for the ages. Toronto rallied late to beat Seattle in game seven sending them back to the World Series for the first time in more than 30 years.

CNN's Coy Wire -- can you make it more exciting than John Berman just tried to poo-poo our sports segment?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: I think I can, Kate, because I'm going to show you perhaps the greatest locker room celebration we've ever seen.

After a spectacular 7-game come-from-behind series sealing showdown against the Mariners, Toronto takes the World Series north of the border. And in the seventh it was a Springer dinger who put the Blue Jays ahead for good. George Springer, 23rd career postseason home run. Tied for third most all-time. A 3-run smash giving them a 4-3 lead, which they would not lose.

Sublime sight for Toronto fans as their long wait comes to an end. The Blue Jays ALCS champs flying to the Fall Classic for the first time since '93. And is this Vegas? Is this South Beach, Kate? I don't know. Whatever it is it looks like a lot of fun. They'll face the Dodgers in the Fall Classic.

[07:40:05]

Here is George Springer on what he'll remember most about the moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE SPRINGER, OUTFIELDER, TORONTO BLUE JAYS: They have bats before me. I mean, if it's not for those guys at bat that moment doesn't happen. I'm just also happy for our team, our fans, out city, our country. I'm so happy right now.

VLADIMIR GUERRERO JR., FIRST BASEMAN, TORONTO BLUE JAYS, NAMED ALCS MVP: This means a lot, you know. We've been working so hard for this and thanks to the fans who bring the energy. The job is not finished. We've got four more to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: All right, from diamond drama to the gridiron. The Lions mauled the Bucs despite not having any of their opening day starters in their secondary. Kelvin Sheppard's defense held MVP candidate Baker Mayfield and the Bucs to just three points at halftime.

And Detroit's self-proclaimed Sonic the Hedgehog Jahmyr Gibbs and his stunning speed could not be stopped. He hit 22 miles per hour on that run. He had two touchdowns in the game and 218 total yards.

The Lions win 24-9 sending a serious message to the rest of the NFC.

The nightcap, the Seahawks gave Seattle fans some solace. Jaxon Smith- Njigba went off for 123 yards and a score, capped off with that -- an electrifying penalized dunk over the goal post. Run game was rocking to Zach Charbonnet, plunging into the end zone twice. Seattle's defense punished C.J. Stroud, sacking him thrice, intercepting him once in a 27-19 win. The Seahawks are now 5-2 on the season.

Did that locker room celebration kind of pump things up a bit for you, Kate?

BOLDUAN: I mean, you always deliver. You always deliver. And by the way, you brought in a thrice. I mean, what do I do with you? I don't even know.

WIRE: Well, I saw they were trying to speed me up in prompters, you know, three times. Thrice was shorter. And here I go. I'm making this segment longer.

BOLDUAN: Well see, you're also kind. When they -- when people try to do that, I just talk slower in order to have control.

Um, wait. Let's throw up that -- can we throw that up one more time because I think at 7:00 in the morning we need another little celebration like that. So I have questions.

WIRE: There you go.

BOLDUAN: One, can we do this? Coy, can you please host it? And J.B., can you pay for the lighting?

BERMAN: Well, I just think this looks like, you know, our offices after every show. Like, 10:03 every morning we put the lights on. Sidner is up there dancing with the goggles on.

BOLDUAN: I always bring my ski goggles.

Wait, is that an actual locker room? Like, legitimate question.

WIRE: Yes. That is their locker room there in Toronto.

BOLDUAN: I mean --

WIRE: Epic. BOLDUAN: -- wow. That's what happens when you make money. Got it, OK, because that thing is enormous. Wow, that's really cool. I mean, seriously guys, this is what we're doing Friday. Taking it to the house.

WIRE: Sounds good.

BOLDUAN: All right. Thanks, buddy.

WIRE: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: J.B.

BERMAN: I'll say they don't have any chairs either, so it would be easy for us to emulate.

BOLDUAN: Please, don't make me laugh.

BERMAN: All right. This morning North Carolina lawmakers are redrawing the state's congressional map and they are not hiding why. Republican leaders say the goal is to lock in another Republican seat ahead of next year's midterms, part of a broader push by President Trump to keep control of Congress. Democrats and voters are trying to fight back in some cases, calling it an attack on fair representation.

With us now from Charlotte is Congresswoman Alma Adams, a Democrat from North Carolina. Congresswoman, great to see you this morning.

What's your feeling about Republicans seem now likely to do in your state?

REP. ALMA ADAMS (D-NC) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, thank you for having me.

You know, they're up to their same old tricks. We've continued to have gerrymandering in North Carolina. We are the most gerrymandered state in the country. We've had -- I've had five. Since I have served in Congress since 2014 there have been five.

We had a fair, equal-equal 7-7 split. They didn't like to have to a fair split. Of course, that certainly would be more reflective of our state being that we have pretty much the same number -- percentage of Democrats as we do Republicans.

So they're really trying to disenfranchise people, and we don't think that's fair. We're fighting back on that.

BERMAN: Yeah. Right now you're at 10-4. I don't know what's on our screen but right now you're at 10-4 and I think this move would move it to 11-3.

Um, if they do go through with this -- and again, all signs are -- a) will you run again? Do you vow to run for re-election?

ADAMS: Oh, yes. I've already announced I am going to run for re- election. BERMAN: And what do you think national Democrats should do about this. This -- you know, obviously, this has happened in Texas. There was a response by Democrats in California. Now if Republicans do this in North Carolina, what and where do you want Democrats to fight back?

ADAMS: Well, first of all, I think we need to make sure that we send the right people to our general assemblies because that's where those decisions are made. I mean, when you think about it -- like, right now, it was the Supreme Court that overturned it.

[07:45:00]

At that time there was a -- it was a Democratic Supreme Court. Now the Supreme Court in North Carolina is Republican. And so we've got to fix that. We've got to make sure that we get a court that's going to be concerned about the people and wanting to make sure that everyone is heard.

This is going to not only disenfranchise folks but if -- we lost three seats. Just think about that -- just recently -- three seats. We had a 7-7 split. They came in, they took -- they stole, which they're doing -- getting ready to do again. They stole three seats. They weren't satisfied. We do have a -- 10 Republicans and four Democrats right now and they're trying to continue to even make that worse by reducing it to 3-11 and maybe they'll try to go even further.

But I do think that all of it starts at the state. We've got to make sure that we have our courts right. That those are folks who are -- who are serving in the courts who understand that we have to have fair representation.

And because we lost those three seats, it wasn't just the three seats that we lost. It also meant that we really lost the House -- the U.S. House and -- because we could have made some changes there. We could have fought back on this big, ugly bill and a lot of other things that have been going on in the U.S. House.

So we're going to fight it as we have done over and over and over again.

BERMAN: But yes or no, do you want to see Illinois redistrict? Do you want to see New York move to redistrict? States where Democrats are in control.

ADAMS: Well, I don't think we should be redistricting outside of the timeframe to do it. I mean, we do it every 10 years. Of course, they're changing the rules as they go, so no. And I think each state -- each of these Democrat states are going to stand up and fight back.

BERMAN: All right, Congresswoman Alma Adams. Nice to see you this morning. Thank you very much.

New this morning a new book by Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre comes out today detailing the abuses she faced by Jeffrey Epstein and others.

And new reporting on the root causes that are making houses so unaffordable.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:51:28]

BOLDUAN: New this morning Oregon National Guard troops could soon be on the streets of Portland. This after a win in court for the Trump White House, which had overturned a lower court's order barring that deployment. The legal fight though not over. Boots won't be on the ground immediately as another restraining order halting the troops is still in place, at least for now.

The majority of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, both nominees of President Trump, writing this in the majority opinion. "Even if the president may exaggerate the extent of the problem on social media, this does not change that other facts provide a colorable basis," they go no to say, "to support his decision."

The president has cited protests outside of Portland's ICE facility to justify the need for federal troops.

CNN's Nick Watt was at the facility last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why did the judges rule this way? Well, there was damage to this building in the summer. There was some violence here in the summer. Federal protection service officers had to be sent in. So these two judges -- two of the three judges ruled that the president was acting within his authority to send federal troops to execute the rule of law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Local leaders and residents continue to say Trump's description of a war-ravaged city is not the reality now.

Oregon's governor said this about this latest ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TINA KOTEK, (D) OREGON: This decision from the dissenting point of view attacks the sovereign authority of states to control their militia. Also, takes away the First Amendment rights to assemble and object to government actions that we don't agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So where does this go now? Joining me right now is former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson. It's good to see you. Thank you for being here.

This ruling -- you have the majority saying even if Trump's exaggerating there is evidence to support what he's trying to do. And then this third judge on the panel writing in the dissent that their take on that is absurd. What's your take on this ruling?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, ADJUNCT ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, WASHINGTON COLLEGE OF LAW, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, Kate. This ruling was not surprising to me because this was very similar to the ruling we saw in Newsome. This is actually the exact same court that ruled in the Newsome case. And essentially what the court has done is said that the president enjoys a lot of discretion and power under this law. And it's a very specific statute 12406.

Now, my take on this is I think that panel is probably correct, or at least that's what the Supreme Court is going to find, because in the Seventh Circuit that's the appeals court where Illinois is a part of. Remember, they're fighting the same battle in Chicago.

The Seventh circle -- Circuit, rather, also applied the exact same framework in denying a stay. They said basically, yeah, the president has the discretion to make the determination as to whether or not things are really bad enough on the ground to federalize and deploy these National Guard troops. So, so long as there's some evidence, the president is allowed to do that. So that is not what a lot of people want to hear, Kate, but that seems to be the way that a lot of judges are interpreting this law.

BOLDUAN: You know, and the thing is there's multiple legal -- and to your point, multiple legal battles on this front in multiple different jurisdictions and states.

You mentioned Chicago and I did find it interesting that the judges here ruling on Portland made a distinction when it comes from the -- with the Portland case from Chicago, essentially making the point that Portland's ICE facility was forced to close for three weeks because of demonstrations. Chicago's ICE facility has remained open despite protests.

[07:55:10]

Do you see that as a legally relevant distinction?

ADAMSON: Yes, Kate, that's a fabulous question, and absolutely. And that's because this law that gives the president the authority to federalize the Guard, 12406 -- there's basically three things and one of them has to be true for them to do that.

Either there needs to be a foreign invasion. Not here a rebellion. There's no rebellion. I don't -- you know, I don't care what the Trump administration says, there's no rebellion.

But the third is more interesting. It's whether or not there is basically an impediment for the federal government to enforce the law.

So when we're talking about closing an ICE facility, Kate -- when we're talking about ICE agents not able to effectuate arrests or transfer arrestees or detainees, that is an impediment. And that is why it is significant. And what the court -- the lower court in Chicago did not find, to your point, is any of that to have been true, at least with the evidence that was submitted to it at these very early stages in the proceedings. So that is a very critical distinguishing factor. So if Chicago -- if the Trump administration is to point to situations in Chicago where ICE has been impeded, then ultimately the court may rule in the Trump administration's favor there as well.

BOLDUAN: And clearly, this legally not over but every step is a critical point along the way to understand.

Alyse Adamson, it's good to see you. Thank you very much -- John.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning President Trump has repeatedly blamed homebuilders for America's housing shortage, accusing them of sitting on empty lots to keep home prices artificially high, but some economists say the affordability crisis goes much deeper than that.

CNN's Matt Egan here with the latest on this. What are you hearing, Matt?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well John, the president is right to be focused on supply because yes, there is this chronic underbuilding at the heart of the shortage. I mean, the problem is that homebuilding -- it never recovered from the 2008 financial crisis even though demand largely had, right?

Twenty years ago homebuilding was booming, right? The construction starts were at an annual rate of 2.1 million. Now in hindsight that was too high, all right, because of the glut. But look at this. We're way lower know at 1.3 million.

But builders and economists say that this isn't happening because builders are acting like OPEC by sitting on empty lots. They say there's been this perfect storm of factors, right? You have sky-high demand, high interest rates, and you also have a lot of regulations and that might be the biggest issue of all. Red tape, especially at the local level -- it can not only slow the process down, but it can really add to the costs, including in areas that desperately need homes.

And there's starting to be a bipartisan consensus that some of this regulation has got to be streamlined and some of the obstacles to adding supply have to be eased.

Goldman Sachs says that you need three to four million more homes to address this shortage. Now the good news is they say most of that can be addressed if you reform and relax some of those land use regulations. The bad news is those regulations are really at the local level and they're not going to be easy to relax.

Now there's also concerns about some new Trump policies starting with tariffs, right? There's tariffs on building materials like lumber, and copper, and steel, and aluminum.

BERMAN: The stuff that goes into houses. EGAN: Exactly.

UBS says that tariffs from this administration adding on average almost $9,000 to the cost of building an average home. Homebuilders might not have to eat all of that but still it's not going to help.

And then there's the immigration crackdown, which could stand in the way of a building boom. One homebuilder in Texas -- he told CNN that he fears that this immigration crackdown -- it's going to backfire by slowing down the process of homebuilding and shrinking the already small pool of workers.

And look, meanwhile, Americans -- they're just struggling right now to buy. My colleague Samantha Delouya -- she spoke to a woman in Rochester, New York who -- it took her five months of bidding on house, and she is one of lucky ones because she eventually got a house. But it took five months, and she had to spend $100,000 over asking price to outbid 36 other offers.

BERMAN: I've got to say the level of frustration around the country -- you now, irrespective of politics, it is palpable.

EGAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Matt Egan, thank you very much.

EGAN: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning six months after her death by suicide one of Jeffrey Epstein's most prominent accusers publishing a memoir. "Nobody's Girl," written by Virginia Giuffre, is out today. And in it, Giuffre, in her own words, details the abuse she says she suffered as part of the sex trafficking ring run by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. The book is also grabbing attention because of the details that she includes about Prince Andrew as well.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz joins us now with much more on this. What are you hearing about this, Salma?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even after her death, Virginia Giuffre's fight for justice, accountability, and truth today continues, perhaps reaching its pinnacle with the publication of this book -- this memoir -- "Nobody's Girl," which is available in bookstores as of today.