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Recent Audit Warned About Issues with Louvre's Security Systems; V.A. Therapists and Patients Say Treatment Sessions are Being Limited; Memoir: Virginia Giuffre Raped by Well-Known Prime Minister; Trump Blames Homebuilders for U.S. Housing Shortage; Biden Rings Bell After He Completes Course of Radiation Therapy. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

MICHAEL FINKEL, AUTHOR, THE ART THIEF: ... states, the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum heist of $500 million worth of pieces was done in 1990. That's 35 years ago, and none of those have been recovered. So the track record for a superlative heist like this is not great.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Yes, Michael, one last quick question. I was shocked that they could get away with this. When I imagined security at the Louvre, I pictured lasers, I pictured a trip wire, like all kinds of, you know, almost like home alone level gadgetry, obviously beyond that, like of a --

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: High tech home alone.

SANCHEZ: High tech home alone, right?

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And we're learning based on this audit, that in fact, the opposite is true, that security was like, almost an afterthought. What do you make of that?

FINKEL: I mean, a couple of things. First of all, before any blame is put on the Louvre, it really isn't stolen from that often, considering what, 30,000 visitors a day, the immense size of the museum itself. But more importantly, the mission of a museum is almost at odds with security.

The point of a museum is to allow us, the visitors, to come as close as possible to some of the most valuable works of art and cultural heritage in the world. We don't want to feel encumbered by security. We want to commune.

The more security, the less effective the museum experience is. And I don't think that museum curators want you to really know this, but museums are not as difficult to steal from as, say, banks or even jewelry stores often. And all art crime could be eliminated, or almost all art crime could be immediately eliminated, rather simply, which would be by locking up all these works of art in vaults.

But then, of course, we'd have no more museums. We'd just have very large banks. So there is this tug of war between access to these amazing items and security that unfortunately will never be quite won, no matter how many pieces -- how many security devices you put in.

There'll probably be thieves that may be able to thwart them. So it's going to be a push and pull. And I think the price we pay for having these amazing museums and this access is that every once in a while, there will be a theft like this.

KEILAR: No gymnastics, nothing.

SANCHEZ: Yes, no trapezing, like, you know, rappelling down Mission Impossible. And I don't mean to blame the Louvre.

FINKEL: Yes, no Tom Cruise in this one.

SANCHEZ: Yes, I don't mean to blame the Louvre more than anything. It's just the audacity of these folks to just walk in there and, you know, start banging glass and taking stuff. It's crazy.

Michael Finkel, thanks so much for the expertise.

FINKEL: Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, more revelations coming out from the book by Jeffrey Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre, including new allegations against what she called a well-known prime minister.

[14:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Some new CNN reporting finds some Veterans Affairs patients and therapists raising alarms. A growing number say their long term therapy sessions are being limited, with one combat veteran saying it feels like he's, quote, being abandoned.

CNN's Brian Todd is joining U.S. now on this. Brian, tell U.S. a little bit more about the issue that you're discovering.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, we've learned that some VA hospitals, not all of them, but some of them have stepped up the enforcement of a policy that limits the number of long term mental health sessions available to individual veterans. That's according to four VA mental health providers and two patients who we spoke with from VA facilities across the U.S. Most of them did not want to give their names for fear of retaliation.

Now, we have to say this policy did not begin in the current Trump administration. It goes at least as far back as the Biden administration and likely further back than that. But our sources tell us the enforcement of that policy has become more strict during this Trump administration. We also need to say this is not occurring at every VA facility in the U.S. We have learned of this occurring at a few facilities.

Now, essentially, it's working like this. At those places, patients get a certain number of one on one therapy sessions, which can vary between four and 24 individual sessions. The mental health providers at these facilities tell us that whereas in the past they had discretion to extend the number of sessions based on their assessments of their patients, the VA is now pressing them in some cases to stop one on one sessions at the end of the allotted series.

And more broadly, to reduce the number of patients who get this long long term care -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And have you spoken to veterans who have gone through this?

TODD: We did. We spoke to one Marine combat veteran, Michael, that is a pseudonym for him. Michael's one on one sessions with his VA mental health provider were suddenly terminated recently. He told me it felt, quote, "Like being abandoned, thrown away like yesterday's trash." He says, quote, "I'm not ready to address all my issues on my own yet. It feels like they took the training wheels off before I'm ready."

Now, Michael says it took him time, a long time to find the right VA therapist and to build trust with that therapist after he had struggled with addiction and was hospitalized following multiple suicide attempts -- Brianna.

KEILAR: What's the VA saying?

TODD: The VA is pushing back fairly hard on this. They are denying that veterans are not getting the care that they need. VA spokesperson Peter Casper, which said there are, "No limits on the number of VA appointments a veteran can have in mental health or any other areas."

[14:40:00]

Casper said the VA, "Works with veterans over an initial eight to 15 mental health sessions and collaboratively plans on any needed follow on care. As part of this process, veterans and their health care team decide together how to address ongoing needs, including whether to step down to other types of care and self maintenance or continue with VA therapy."

But we have indeed been told by VA mental health providers that they were told to stop seeing some veterans for longer open ended periods. In some cases, they say they're having to offer veterans options like group therapy, which many veterans do not want to do or the chance to reapply for one on one treatment. But if they reapply, they could wait months to get that treatment. And it's not guaranteed that they'll get back with their trusted therapists.

These providers tell us that for some veterans with severe PTSD, suicidal ideations and other conditions, that's just not clinically appropriate, that some of them are going to need this treatment for the rest of their lives -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, and that's what you would expect and not appropriate for what is a very high risk community for sure. Brian Todd, excellent reporting. Thank you so much for that. And if you feel you are in crisis, call or text nine eight eight to reach the 24 hour suicide crisis lifeline. Veterans and their loved ones can dial 988, then press one or text 838255 to reach the veterans crisis line -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: The posthumous memoir by prominent Jeffrey Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre is out today and in it, Giuffre reveals harrowing new details of the alleged sexual abuse she suffered while being trafficked by Epstein. Among the new allegations that she was raped and beaten by a well-known prime minister. Giuffre also details multiple sexual encounters she claims she had with Britain's Prince Andrew, who's vehemently denied those accusations. Prince Andrew did renounce his royal title last week amid the growing scandal.

CNN royal correspondent Max Foster joins us now live. To this accusation about a well-known prime minister, Max. Does Giuffre actually identify him? She she doesn't, right?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: She doesn't. I'll give you the reason for that in a moment, but it is, for me, the most searing part of this book. I mean, it's incredibly difficult to read and there are some really dark moments.

And this is a particularly awful one. So trafficked by Epstein to this prime minister, as she calls it in the American book. I have to say in the U.K. book, it's just minister.

But she talks about a prime minister repeatedly choked her until I lost consciousness and took pleasure in seeing me fear for my life. Horrifically, the prime minister laughed when he hurt me and got more aroused when I begged him to stop.

We can't give much more because it's so gruesome. You know, it's not an appropriate place to talk about. But to warn anyone that actually reads the book, she doesn't name him. We can't ask her because she knows is no longer around.

But her co-author is very clear. She says that victims and survivors of abuse shouldn't be the ones to call out their abusers. They can hand the information to the authorities, which they say they've done. The authorities should then release it.

So that's why they're calling for the Epstein files, as they're called, to be released. So a big pressure on that front.

You mentioned Prince Andrew. There is some narrative there about how he tried to undermine her using trolls. This ties with a story that the police are investigating in the U.K. here that Prince Andrew tried to undermine her story by asking a police officer to dig some dirt on Giuffre's criminal past around the time that this photo was released.

And the plot thickens there because now I understand it, that the head of Royal Protection Police is now one of King Charles's closest aides, not suggesting that he's done anything wrong here. That's for the police investigation. But it does show how the royal family have a problem here in that it keeps coming back to them and questions about what they knew when and how this Prince Andrew story is completely distracting them from their work.

So Prince Andrew, as you say, denying all of the allegations around this.

SANCHEZ: Max Foster live in London. Thank you so much.

Still to come, buying a home has become more difficult for many Americans. We have new CNN reporting showing it may soon get even harder.

[14:45:00]

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SANCHEZ: A critical housing shortage is deferring the dream of homeownership for many Americans. President Trump is blaming homebuilders, accusing them of sitting on empty lots to keep home prices artificially high. Some economists, though, say the issue is not that simple.

CNN's Matt Egan is here with new reporting on why buying a home may soon get even harder. Matt, isn't there a risk the president's tariffs actually add to the cost of buying a home because of the cost of things like lumber?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, Boris, that is certainly a concern at this point. And look, I mean, there's no doubt the American dream of homeownership, it's just feels like it's too far out of reach for far too many people. And the president is right to focus on supply because, yes, there is this massive housing shortage.

And the problem is that home building, it never really recovered from the 2008 financial crisis. This looks -- this is a look at construction starts of private housing units. And 20 years ago, there was a boom here, right?

It was two point one million units. Now, in hindsight, that was too high because there was actually a housing glut to many homes. But now we have the opposite problem with just 1.3 million, even though demand has largely recovered.

[14:50:00]

Now, the president has blamed homebuilders and accused them of being like OPEC by holding back production. But economists and housing industry experts, they tell us that it's more complicated than that. Part of the problem here is that financing costs are very high. And the other thing here is that regulation is too strenuous, especially at the local level, right? Red tape. It's not only slowing down the building of homes, but it's also making it more expensive.

Now, Goldman Sachs has said that the U.S. needs between three and four million additional homes to address this housing shortage. Now, the good news is they do think that this is something that could be largely addressed if land use regulations were relaxed. However, the bad news is a lot of those regulations are at the local level. So this is not something that can just be fixed with a True Social post or an executive order.

Now, to your question about tariffs, that is a big concern here, right, because tariffs are adding to the cost of building homes. Right now, we've got tariffs on key building materials, including steel, aluminum, copper and lumber.

It's kind of an odd time to put tariffs on building materials if what you're trying to do is inspire a housing boom. In fact, UBS estimates that these tariffs are adding almost $9,000 to the average cost of building a home.

And so, Boris, bottom line here is it's taken a very long time to get into this housing affordability crisis. And this is not something that's going to be fixed overnight.

SANCHEZ: Yes, may get -- may take a while to get out of it. Matt Egan, thanks so much for walking us through that report.

EGAN: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still to come, former President Biden moving on to the next phase in his fight against prostate cancer. We have details on what's next for the former president's therapy.

[14:55:00]

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KEILAR: Former President Joe Biden has completed a course of radiation therapy as he is fighting prostate cancer. Biden's daughter, Ashley, posting a short video of her father ringing the bell, the tradition after cancer patients finish a round of treatment. Along with pictures of Dr. Jill Biden and two grandchildren captioning the photos. Dad has been so damn brave throughout this treatment. Grateful.

Earlier this year, the former president was diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer that had spread to his bones.

CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner is with us now. Dr. Reiner, he's completed this course of radiation therapy. He had a pill regimen to treat the cancer earlier this year. You know, tell us a little bit about this and what the next steps are in a typical patient.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: So, Brianna, earlier this year, after President Biden was diagnosed with prostate cancer, he was started on a form of hormone therapy, which is basically designed to decrease the amount of testosterone produced. Testosterone is basically the fuel for prostate cancer. And many men with advanced prostate cancer will take that indefinitely.

It was also disclosed that President Biden had metastases to his bones. Bone metastases are often the first site for spread of prostate cancer. And radiation therapy is used to treat that cancer spread. And it's effective at reducing pain and also preventing local spread. The fact that he is now finished with radiation therapy is a nice milestone. And ringing the bell is a very empowering thing for a cancer patient.

KEILAR: So, yes, it seems like a really lovely kind of marking of the moment. We know that President Biden, former President Biden, is speaking on Sunday in Boston. He's receiving an award.

What is the downtime after radiation therapy? Is there normally some?

REINER: Well, I think it depends on, you know, the organs being treated, the, you know, extent of the body being treated with radiation therapy and the person's overall status. President Biden, you know, is a pretty trim, pretty, pretty fit man. And if they're targeting relatively select, perhaps long bone metastases, then, you know, he he may feel pretty good.

But most people who are treated with radiation therapy, you know, do feel fairly knocked out after the treatments. And it takes, you know, several days to recover. But this weekend he may look quite good.

KEILAR: So what are the early signs that people should be looking for? You know what preventative measures could someone who might be concerned about this take?

REINER: So there are a variety of guidelines now, and some of the cancer organizations differ on when men should be tested for prostate cancer. Some organizations like the American Cancer Society recommend that men over the age of 50 have a discussion with their doctor about beginning perhaps testing using something called a PSA or prostate specific antigen to look for any sign -- early signs of prostate cancer.

African-Americans have a higher risk of prostate cancer. And typically the recommendations are to have that discussion about testing five five years earlier or at about age 45. And men who have a first degree relative with prostate cancer can even start testing even earlier at age 40. So these are the kinds ...

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