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HuffPost: Leavitt Posting Heated Exchange with Reporter Backfires; Trump's Hope for Quick Second Summit with Putin Have Stalled Out; Interview with Sen. Jackie Rosen (D-NV); Schumer Says He and Jeffries Reached Out to Trump Today to Urge Him to Sit Down and Negotiate; Pardoned Capitol Rioter Arrested for Allegedly Threatening to Kill Democratic House Minority Leader Jeffries. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

S.V. DATE, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, HUFFPOST: I mean, I routinely say that the president lies. He does. He does.

What can I do? I mean, that's who he is. And so I don't apologize for that at all.

In fact, "The Useful Idiot," the title, of course, is from an old Russian phrase about people who do things because they're being used by others. And that's, honestly, it's what it seemed in the first term that's what was going on with President Trump.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: I wonder whether you think her publishing this exchange has either galvanized the base or potentially backfired, because it seems like politics nowadays in a lot of ways are a Rorschach test, right? What you interpret, you're seeing, says a lot about you, because some people see that and they think, oh, she's standing up to this reporter that misrepresents things or whatnot. Some people see it and think, boy, that's childish.

A press secretary at the White House should not be responding that way, insulting someone's mother.

DATE: Right. Well, you know, as far as the folks who think Donald Trump can do no wrong and never has, you know, that's not my audience. That's not your audience, probably.

And there's nothing I can do about that. All I can do is do my reporting. And part of that is asking them for their view of it, for their explanation of it, for some sort of background as to why this happened, et cetera.

Did it help her base? Probably. I mean, you know, as you saw on Twitter, she got a bunch of retweets and people are calling me names, et cetera, et cetera.

And that happens now. I mean, that's the world we live in.

SANCHEZ: It is the world we live in. S.V. Date, please let us know if you get an answer as to why Budapest. DATE: If you do, I'd love to hear it as well.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much. Appreciate your time.

DATE: Sure.

SANCHEZ: So what changed between last week and when Trump announced a second meeting with Putin? And today, Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he has an idea and it has to do with Tomahawk missiles. We'll discuss in just a moment.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A Trump administration official now says there are no immediate plans for a second summit between President Trump and Russian President Putin. Sources familiar with the matter tell CNN an expected pre-meeting between Secretary of State Marco Rubio and his Russian counterpart, Sergey Lavrov, is also not happening.

We're joined now by CNN military analyst, retired Admiral James Stavridis. He's a former NATO Supreme Allied Commander. He's also a partner at the Carlyle Group, which is an international investment firm. And he serves on the board or advises for a handful of defense related companies.

Admiral, the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is putting it this way. He says Russia became less interested in diplomacy after the U.S. declined to provide Tomahawks to Ukraine. Do you think that's a correct read on this?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I do. My sense would be quite simple. Putin was concerned about the Tomahawks, picked up the phone, called Donald Trump, tried to arrange this Budapest summit, which, as was just discussed on your show, a terrible choice in a lot of different ways, symbolically, practically.

But it quickly became clear, I think, to Washington that Putin was simply going to continue with his maximalist demands, that it was nothing but a delaying tactic. So Brianna, what I hope is that we're back where we were a week ago before the Putin phone call and that President Trump will, in fact, strongly consider sending Tomahawks to Ukraine. I hope he does.

And I hope he also considers strongly further economic pressure on Moscow. Until we do that, Putin will not be serious about coming to the negotiating table.

KEILAR: I mean, would a summit like this just have been a waste of time?

STAVRIDIS: I think that's a pretty good way to categorize it, just like the summit in Alaska ultimately became a waste of time. And you know, in addition to wasting the valuable time of the U.S. president, I think it also gives Russia, and particularly Vladimir Putin, look at that strut. Look at the smug look on his face.

It gives him a platform he richly does not deserve. He's someone who has invaded his neighbors, murdered his political enemies, and is a malevolent actor in every dimension. So yes, it would have been a waste of time and the side benefit to Russia of giving someone like Putin that kind of stage again, really distasteful to many.

KEILAR: So what should the conditions be for Trump to have a meeting with Putin in the future?

STAVRIDIS: I'm all for President Trump, who is a skilled negotiator, going to meetings with Putin. But the groundwork has to be laid. And noticeably, Marco Rubio, who is developing quite a skill set as well, look at the outcome in the Middle East, at least thus far, send Secretary Rubio to deal with Lavrov, get the conditions right.

And I think what our president should demand is freeze the front lines where they are right now, put in place a ceasefire, and let's have a negotiation about how to end the conflict. But until we put pressure on Putin, he's simply not going to be willing. He, Putin, is not going to be willing until he sees us as serious.

[15:40:00]

So bottom line, it's Teddy Roosevelt all over again, walk softly, but carry a big stick. In this case, President Trump has a big stick, Tomahawks, economic sanctions.

I think he's got the cards, the leverage. I hope he plays them.

KEILAR: How are you seeing the war in Ukraine right now, especially with the knowledge, this reporting, that things did get testy between Zelenskyy and Trump at this White House meeting as they started getting into some of the specifics of ceding land to Russia?

STAVRIDIS: I'll point out that the map you're showing has essentially not changed at all in about two years. There has been very little movement, a little bit of gains for Russia, but not much. So Russia, which has vastly larger armed forces, supposedly much more experience in combat operations from the Middle East, ought to have strikingly moved across that map.

Just not happening. Why? Because we, the West, have given the Ukrainians the tools because they have the fighting spirit, because Russia at the end of the day in many ways is a broken nation that can throw resources at this problem, but not simply grind away as long as we continue to provide the weapons systems to Ukraine.

I'll close on this, Brianna, back to the most recent meeting of President Zelenskyy and President Trump in the White House. At least this time he got lunch. He didn't get thrown out.

They had a, by all accounts, a zesty conversation. But I think if you listen to what Zelenskyy is saying about the meeting, it was productive. Not the outcome Zelenskyy wanted in terms of Tomahawks, but the conversation continues. I for one consider it a better meeting than the previous one that really was broken in the White House.

KEILAR: Yes, no, no doubt. Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much for being with us.

STAVRIDIS: You bet, Brianna.

KEILAR: And the head Senate Republicans say they want to vote this week on legislation that would guarantee essential government employees are paid during the shutdown. Will Democratic lawmakers support that?

We're going to ask right after this.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Last hour after meeting with President Trump at the White House to discuss the government shutdown, Senate Majority Leader John Thune was asked if the president would be more willing to get involved in negotiations with Democrats. Here was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I think the president is willing to sit down with the government. And yes, I would expect that we would all want to participate in any such meeting. But as we said, open up the government and that can happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer says he and his House counterpart, Hakeem Jeffries, reached out to President Trump earlier today, urging him to sit down and negotiate.

With me now to discuss is Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen of Nevada. Senator, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

I first want to ask you about the bill that Leader Thune has proposed that he wants to bring to the floor within the next week or so.

SEN. JACKY ROSEN (D-NV), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I lost their feed. Audio went out. Audio is out.

SANCHEZ: Hey, Senator, can you hear me? Senator? It seems like we've had a technical difficulty with the senator.

We're going to try to address it in the next few moments. Senator, can you hear me?

ROSEN: I can hear you. You went out for a second, but I hear you now.

SANCHEZ: I apologize for that, Senator.

ROSEN: I believe you were asking a question. No, that's OK. Technical difficulties happen.

SANCHEZ: They do happen. I want to ask you about this bill being proposed by Leader Thune that would pay essential employees during the shutdown. It would not pay all furloughed workers, which is something that Democrats have pushed for.

Where do you stand on Thune's bill?

ROSEN: Well, first of all, I can tell you this is a fully Republican shutdown. As you said, and even Leader Thune says this, Trump, it's Trump's call. Trump can stop this at any moment by bringing us to the table and having a discussion.

In fact, Speaker, do-nothing Speaker Johnson in the House, God knows when they'll come back to work. They've barely been here since August. He's fully capitulated to Donald Trump.

And Thune is again kind of saying, well, we're going to leave it to the president. Thune needs to bring us together. We can open the government now by opening up conversations about getting people's health care coverage that they can afford.

All people deserve to get paid, not just the ones that Trump likes versus the one he doesn't like. And I want to talk about the clip you just showed, all of those Republicans coming out of the White House. They, while people are worrying, not getting a paycheck, grocery prices going up, health care going through the roof, they're celebrating the big, beautiful ballroom.

So they're over there and some gold-plated lunch, gold-plated lunch, while people are suffering, prices are going up, and they're not doing a damn thing. Oh, and maybe they signed the check for Kristi Noem's two -- count them, two airplanes that she doesn't need.

She'd come fly Southwest with me. I'll even take the middle seat. The pretzels are fantastic. They're made in Nevada.

SANCHEZ: I may have to fact-check you on the pretzels. I haven't tried them myself. Senator, I'm curious --

ROSEN: They are, they are.

SANCHEZ: -- I'm curious to get your thoughts on the president talking for years about his desire to repeal and replace Obamacare. It is something that he has tried unsuccessfully to do in the past.

[15:50:00]

Don't you think it's going to be an uphill battle to get him to extend subsidies for it, given that it is a piece of legislation that he is pretty consistently against?

ROSEN: Well, what I want to say is this. When I'm about to quote Marjorie Taylor Greene and say that she's absolutely correct, when she saw her kids' insurance premiums going up by double, and she said, this isn't sustainable, and reasonable, responsible people everywhere have to get together to fix this, you know that the tide has shifted. Over the course of so many years, more and more people get insurance coverage, whether they use the tax credits or not.

We've changed so many things. You can't be kicked off for preexisting conditions and the like. You can't just rip health care away from people. It is the number one thing people call into my office about. And so people are worried.

You know, I live in Las Vegas, right outside Las Vegas, and we like to say we love when people come and roll the dice, but nobody should be rolling the dice to not get their health care.

I've literally had people say, I'll just roll the dice and hope I don't get sick. That's not the kind of rolling the dice we want.

And so, to be clear, President Trump, with Leader Thune, Speaker Johnson, all the other Republicans have to come to their senses, because I can't imagine that their constituents in their states have any less worries or anxieties about their health care than the folks in Nevada.

So I know my why. Everyone's asking me to please help them get insurance coverage. That's all they're asking. I want insurance coverage. I want to go to the doctor and get my medicine. People are going to die if they don't.

SANCHEZ: The argument from Republicans has been that that's a conversation that can be had after the government is reopened. It seems like you don't have faith in those assurances. I also wonder what you make of their argument that these are COVID-era subsidies that are going to expire and that because of a lifted cap on income during COVID, these subsidies have disproportionately helped wealthy people and not those who need it most.

What's your response?

ROSEN: Well, I can tell you that has any -- has any costs come down since COVID? Has insurance premiums come down since COVID? Is the price of anything come down since Donald Trump's been the president?

No. And so that my faith in Republicans is low. Why?

Because in March, we kept the government open, hoping to have these conversations, understanding that November 1st, just a couple of weeks away, everyone's going to have to make one of the most important decisions they can make for themselves and their family. What kind of insurance, if any, can they afford or do they get? And what choices will they have to make?

And so, again, I'm focused on the kitchen table. Every important thing in people's lives happens at the kitchen table, from the morning breakfast every day with your family to all the joys, all the parties, also those tough conversations about what bills you pay and what bills you won't, what you'll give up and what you'll take care of. And so it is important when it comes to people's health that we make sure that they can afford that. That's why we want a conversation. They've had six months to discuss it with us. No news that this was coming.

They haven't chosen to do that. Our faith is a little bit low right now. They invite us into Thune's office, a group of us.

We can put some issues on the table. They put theirs. We put ours.

I bet we can come to agreement on quite a few things to get the government open and get some health care back in people's pockets.

SANCHEZ: Nevada Senator Jackie Rosen, thank you so much for sharing your time and perspective. We look forward to the next round of conversations.

ROSEN: Thank you for having me.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Ahead, a pardoned Capitol rioter is back behind bars after allegedly threatening to kill House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Details in just moments.

[15:55:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: This just into CNN. A pardoned January 6th rioter has been arrested for allegedly threatening to kill House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.

KEILAR: According to New York State Police, an anonymous source told the FBI that the suspect said he would kill Jeffries, quote, for the future.

CNN's Kara Scannell is with us now. Kara, what are you learning about this?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris and Brianna, we just got a copy of the felony complaint filed in this case. And according to it, this 34-year-old man who was a pardoned January 6th rioter was arrested and charged with making a terroristic threat. And it relates to text messages he sent just last Friday about the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.

In these text messages, this man allegedly writes, "Hakeem Jeffries makes a speech in a few days in New York City. I cannot allow this terrorist to live. Even if I am hated, he must be eliminated. I will kill him for the future."

And according to the New York State Police, this anonymous tip was brought to the FBI's attention about these threats that Moynihan allegedly made. And then they swiftly arrested him. He is still in custody until he appears in court on Thursday for a hearing.

No attorney has been listed for Moynihan, so we've been unable to get any sort of comment or reaction to these charges. He is one of the January 6th rioters who was pardoned by President Donald Trump when Trump came into office this year.

Moynihan, at the time in connection with the January 6th cases, was not accused of any physical violence that day against any officers. But he was convicted of obstructing an official proceeding, as well as other related charges. He was among one of the first people to breach the Capitol.

And he was seen taking photos of items on a lawmaker's desk. He was pardoned in that case. But, you know, all of this getting, of course, a lot of attention because of the rise in political violence and seeing some violence actually being carried through on -- guys.

KEILAR: So he was actually there in the Capitol, in the Senate chamber, right, Kara? You see that he was in a very prominent position.

[16:00:00]

SCANNELL: Yes, he was. He was one of the people that was there inside the chamber that day, but he was not accused of any violence that day. Of course, these threats now being taken very seriously by the New York state authorities.

KEILAR: All right, Kara Scannell, thank you so much.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END