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Trump Says He Could Be Seeking $230 Million in Compensation from DOJ; Trump to Meet With NATO Chief Amid Push to End Ukraine War; Under Stress, Americans Falling Behind on Car Payments. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 22, 2025 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: $230 million. President Trump says the DOJ owes him those taxpayer dollars because of its prior investigations of him.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: They're coming and they're coming fast. That is from Amazon's CEO not mincing words about how A.I. agents, as he calls them, are on the way, and will replace hundreds of thousands of human workers

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In a life-saving moment caught on camera, two police officers, rescue a ten-month-old boy choking.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN News Central.

SIDNER: This morning, as President Trump on the verge of essentially paying himself $230 million in taxpayer monies, all kinds of ethical questions are being raised after the president appeared to confirm a New York Times report that he's seeking damages from his own Justice Department over past investigations involving himself, specifically Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian election interference and the probe into the classified documents the FBI seized from Mar-a- Lago.

CNN asked the president about that $230 million figure, and he says that it could be accurate, but the, he didn't know all the specifics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't know what the numbers are. I don't even talk to them about it. All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money, but I don't -- I'm not looking for money. I'd give it to charity.

Now, with the country, it's interesting, because I'm the one that makes a decision, right? And, you know, that decision would have to go across my desk. And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER: Joining me now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. Ellie, thank you so much for coming in this morning.

Does the president have any legitimate grounds for this claim saying, you know, this is about damages for someone who went through these investigations and had to pay their lawyers, obviously?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Sara, ordinarily, any person who gets charged by the Justice Department can make one of these claims, can eventually file a lawsuit. However, the legal bar is very high here. It's not enough to show that you were, for example, investigated but not charged, as Trump was, with respect to 2016 election interference, it's not even enough to show that you were charged but not convicted, as with the two indictments against Donald Trump. You have to show something more. You have to show a higher level of ill intent or malice by the U.S. government. That's a really high bar of meat. Not at all clear Trump could meet that.

But more to the point, Sara, there are massive, enormous conflicts of interest here. As Donald Trump said, it's strange to be in a position where you're deciding whether to pay yourself. The key decision-makers at the Justice Department are Trump's own defense lawyers, Todd Blanche, or this guy, Stanley Woodward, who represented one of Trump's co-defendants in the Mar-a-Lago criminal case. So, we've got a massive, I believe, intractable conflict of interest problem here.

SIDNER: The Trump administration's also asking for money because of the claims that the FBI violated his privacy for searching Mar-a-Lago for those classified documents. But the FBI did find classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Does that matter at all?

HONIG: Oh, absolutely. And that's a perfect example of why it's really hard to win on these cases. I mean, Trump's got nothing on that aspect of his claim. First of all, that search of Mar-a-Lago was reviewed and authorized in advance by a federal judge, and, second of all, the FBI and Justice Department found the evidence they were looking for. They said in their application, we're looking for classified documents. Guess what? They found tons of classified documents.

So, that's a great example of why it's really difficult. To win on these claims, and especially in some of the claims that Donald Trump is claiming he's going to bring.

SIDNER: I'm just curious if you expect Todd Blanche, for example, to recuse himself. Would that be the expectation if this goes forward?

HONIG: Well, he 100 percent should. It would be the easiest recusal decision in the Justice Department history. I mean, he's the person who represented Donald Trump and Donald Trump's private capacity in these criminal cases. But important to keep in mind, Sara, even if he does recuse, even if Stanley Woodward, the other guy who represented Walt Nauta, recuses, this decision will fall to somebody in the Justice Department. And you can bet that person will be well aware that the person making the claim is the president of the United States, and that his boss at the Justice Department, including Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi have all done work privately for Donald Trump before and are all loyalists to Donald Trump.

[07:05:06]

So, that conflict of interest is almost impossible to cure, in my view.

SIDNER: All right. Elie Honig, it's great to have you this morning. Thank you for breaking that all down for us. Kate?

BOLDUAN: So, also breaking overnight, big headlines we are watching, a kindergarten in Kharkiv, Ukraine, is among what was hit in a large scale in deadly Russian air attack. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, we're going to show you, he posted these images. Just take a look at this. This is showing firefighters rescuing children. At least six people were killed, including, we're told, a six month old baby across that country.

Russia used drones, missiles, fighter jets to target energy infrastructure, and clearly target cities. Zelenskyy calling the strikes a spit in the face to everyone who insists on a peaceful resolution.

All the while this morning, there is more mixed messaging coming from the Kremlin. Moscow saying it's preparing for another summit with President Trump even though very clearly President Trump tabled the idea yesterday saying he didn't want to waste time. Today, President Trump will be hosting the NATO secretary general at the White House. European leaders now accusing Putin of stalling so he can keep waging this war and gain -- try and gain ground on the battlefields in Ukraine.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Well, it seems at times that it takes a backseat to other headlines, Ukraine, Russia, and the stalled talks, and what happens next, front and center today at the White House.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely. And I think those strikes overnight, particularly the ones hitting a daycare in Ukraine are, of course, going to add even more urgency to this. Now, Mark Rutte, he is the NATO secretary general, he's coming today for a 4:00 P.M. meeting at the White House with the president.

I'd argue this was a pretty, you know, hastily arranged kind of emergency meeting. It came after that phone call the president had with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday. Now, part of this is because, you know, the U.S. had been considering -- Trump had been publicly floating this idea of providing more offensive weapons, these long-range missiles, we call them Tomahawks, to Ukraine, that kind of got lost after the president's call with Putin, and it raised a lot of concerns among the United States' European allies who, of course, have been supporting Ukraine through this entire process about whether or not the president was still committed in the way that they believed he should be in the way that they want to end this war.

Now, I think one point, of course, is that this all comes as we're seeing the Trump administration, which you heard the president himself argue he was going to have a meeting with Putin in roughly two weeks after that call in Budapest, they tabled that meeting after the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, on Monday had a call with for Russia's foreign secretary, Sergey Lavrov. That meeting did not really make headway. From our conversations with our sources about that call, they essentially said, it doesn't seem like Russia is further along than they had been in the past.

All to say, this does seem like another case potentially where, you know, the president gets on the phone with Putin. He seems to be kind of, promised things, told things, and then Putin does something else in his actions. And so I'm sure there'll be some frustration here, all of that being discussed in that meeting with Rutte today.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Very important to hear what they say going in and as well when they come out of this meeting today.

Alayna, it's great to see you. Thanks for being here. John?

BERMAN: We've got some live pictures now from the Senate floor that is Oregon Senator Jeff Merkley. He has been speaking now for 13 hours and counting. He started last night around 6:00 P.M. and has been talking just like this all throughout the night. He says he is protesting, quote, grave threats to democracy from President Trump, whom he says is, quote, shredding the Constitution.

All right, a troubling sign of serious cracks in the economy, a crucial group of Americans falling behind in car payments.

And new research about how you might prevent an early death. Here's a hint. It's good news for those of us who have a job without chairs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:10:00]

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, a flashing warning sign for the economy, more Americans struggling to make their monthly car payments.

CNN's Matt Egan is here. And this is a specific group of lenders here or borrowers, I should say.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. Well, look, John, this is definitely more evidence of financial stress on Main Street, especially for Americans with lower credit scores, right? So, if you're looking at subprime auto borrowers, 6.4 percent are at least 60 days late on their car payments. This is three. It should say 6.4 percent. So, that's the second highest level on record. It's higher than during COVID, higher than during the 2008 financial crisis. The only time it was higher was back in January. So, this is a very elevated figure.

Now, it's not a brand new trend, subprime auto delinquencies. They've been high for about the last two years or so. But it's one that has not gotten any better and it's getting some more focus right now because of that bankruptcy by a Texas subprime auto lender that we talked about. That happened in September, but it really rattled investors on Wall Street.

And what's notable is we're not seeing the same problem among people who have stronger credit scores, right? Prime borrowers, their auto delinquencies, they've come up a little bit but they're still pretty low. So, this is more evidence of that K-shaped economy that we talk about, where people who have money in the market and they own their increasingly valuable homes, they're doing okay, but others on Main Street, they're struggling just to stay afloat right now.

[07:15:05]

BERMAN: So, why does it seem like they're falling behind?

EGAN: Well, first of all, it's just how expensive life is, right? I mean, groceries, daycare, housing, it's very expensive, but it's also how expensive it is to have a car, right? Car prices have never been higher. The average payment on a car loan has increased to above $700, $749. But then there's all the other costs that go along with having a car, right? You look at the cost of car insurance. That's gone up over the last 12 months by about 5 percent. That's well above the overall rate of inflation. And then the cost of repairing your car, look at this, up by 15 percent just in the past year, right? That is a two- year high.

Now, the fact that more Americans are falling behind on their car loans, that has kept the repo business very busy, right? We saw stats that last year, 1.7 million cars were repossessed. That's the most since 2009 during the great recession.

BERMAN: And you don't want to be comparing to that era at all in anything.

EGAN: No, not at all. I talked to a guy who owns a repo business in Detroit and he told me it is a target-rich environment right now.

And one last point here, John, is this just was another reminder of how, despite the record highs on Wall Street, the stock market, there's a lot of people on Main Street that are hurting right now, especially because, historically, car payments is the last thing that people would want to miss, but some of them are behind right now.

BERMAN: We'll be watching this very closely to see if this grows as an issue.

Matt Egan, thank you very much.

EGAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Thank you to both of you.

Ahead, Amazon gearing up to replace humans with robots, a new report shows just how many jobs may go A.I.

And a goat gets a new title. Why you're going to hear a lot more from Michael Jordan this NBA season.

Those stories are more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It is sports time, friends. Kevin Durant was really hoping to show up his old team while making his debut with the Rockets. Instead, he got a double overtime shocker.

CNN's Andy Scholes is here with more on this. Double overtime shocker, it sounds like a great moniker for something. I don't know. Tell me what happened.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Well, Kate, my Rockets, unfortunately, had multiple chances to win this game, but just couldn't pull it out in the end. But if this opener is a sign of things to come, I mean, this Western Conference this year, it's going to be as tough as ever. And before tipoff, the Thunder, they're raising their first ever championship banner and then they got their fancy rings.

Now, the Rockets, they rolled out the tallest starting lineup for an opener ever, average height, 6'10", Kevin Durant playing shooting guard.

Now, reigning MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, he had just 11 points through three quarters, but then he really turned it on this bucket here, tied the game with two seconds left. So, we go to overtime. Fast forward to double O.T. and K.D. to Alperen Sengun, puts the Rockets up by one with 11 seconds. Sengun had 39 points. But then SGA showing off those handles finally gets K.D. to foul him here. It would end up making both free throws. SGA scored 24 of his 35 points in the fourth quarter and overtime. The Thunder, they win a thriller to open this season, 125-124.

Elsewhere, the Lakers hosting the Warriors, and the other matchup of opening night, LeBron missing this one with sciatica, first time in his career he's missed a season opener. Without him, Luka leading the way, he poured in 43 points for the Lakers, but it was Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry just too much in this one. Steph putting the game away with a deep three here in the final minute. Warriors end up winning 119-109.

Now, as a part of the NBA being back on NBC, Michael Jordan is going to be making appearances as a contributor. And last night, he sat down with Mike Tirico. And Tirico, he asked Jordan when was the last time he played basketball, and Jordan said, well, he never plays, but he picked up a ball while staying at someone's house during the Ryder Cup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JORDAN, SIX-TIME NBA CHAMPION: He says, I want you to shoot one free throw. I said, really? I already paid for the house, like you got to see me. So, when I stepped up to shoot your free throw, that's the most nervous I've been in years. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it.

JORDAN: In years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it. Come on.

JORDAN: And reason being is those kids heard the stories from their parents about what I did 30 years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

JORDAN: So, their expectation is 30 years prior, and I haven't touched the basketball.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope you swished it.

JORDAN: Absolutely.

JORDAN: I got the most gratifying of -- that made my whole week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Can you imagine Michael Jordan nervous? Of course, he swished it. But, Kate, I thought that was -- so I think these are so cool because we never hear from Jordan. We haven't heard -- we barely hear from him in the last 20 years. So, really looking forward to hearing him in these conversations throughout the season.

BOLDUAN: It made me think of the Jordan doc that I watched. I think it was during COVID when that amazing series came out.

SCHOLES: Oh, yes, Last Dance.

BOLDUAN: That was so good. I can't wait to hear more from him. Of course, he swished it. I mean, (INAUDIBLE), right, Berman?

BERMAN: There was a 0 percent chance he was going to miss that shot. And then I bet he took the kids on in one-on-one and dunked all over them, like repeatedly. Knowing Jordan, he didn't let them get any shots off, dunked on them repeatedly and then walked off the court.

BOLDUAN: It's also like that ask like go shoot a basketball for me. It's like when people come up and they're like, so what's in the news today, John?

BERMAN: And I give them a newscast. I just deliver the news, like Jordan.

BOLDUAN: Well, I'd say, you won the cape (ph) from 30 years ago. I can't possibly today.

BERMAN: But you do it. I'm sure you nail that newscast for them and then walk up --

BOLDUAN: Swish it, nothing but net, baby.

BERMAN: Andy, you're the best. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Oh, yes. Thanks Andy.

[07:25:00]

BERMAN: All right. The Louvre jewel heist now estimated to be at more than a $100 million haul. This morning, two new clues that are driving the manhunt.

And from NFL Star to Taylor Swift's fiance, to Rollercoaster tycoon, Travis Kelce, his latest investment may have some twists and turns, literally.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: All right. This morning, in his quest to deploy the National Guard to more American cities, President Trump has made a series of new claims this week as he threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act.

[07:30:08]