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GOP Funding Bill To Reopen Government Fails In Senate For 12th Time; Trump Aims To Expand Strikes On Alleged Drug Traffickers To Land; King Charles Meets With Pope Leo XIV During Historic Vatican Visit. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 23, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: We're in day 23 of the government shutdown and today the Senate is expected to vote on a GOP-backed bill to pay certain essential federal workers.

The vote comes just a day before millions are expected to miss their first full paycheck tomorrow. The GOP bill would require the government to pay workers who are required to work, including members of the military, border patrol, for example -- the TSA.

A competing bill from Democrats would pay all federal workers during the shutdown. Republican lawmakers have pushed back on that saying if Democrats really want to pay all federal workers, they can just vote to reopen the government by supporting the GOP funding gap bill. That bill failed in the Senate for a 12th time yesterday.

Joining us now, Sophia Cai, the White House reporter for Politico. Sophia, what are you learning on the latest? Is there any movement here?

SOPHIA CAI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Look, I think there are some Democrats who are really hoping that Democratic leaders will meet with Trump before he leaves for Asia. We just saw Republicans at the White House getting a pat on the back for essentially having a united front, but Democrats feel like they need to go the very top because Republicans won't negotiate without a blessing from President Trump.

SIDNER: Is there any sign from the White House that a meeting will happen? That the president feels like this is imminent and needs to take care of this and jump in? Both Republicans and Democrats have asked the president to weigh in here.

CAI: Yeah. I think the White House line is this. They're saying yes, the president is happy to get involved as long as Democrats reopen the government. So from what I'm hearing it doesn't seem like there's going to be a meeting before Trump leaves for Asia for another week, and that's going to be likely another week of a government shutdown.

SIDNER: Are there any signs that either side is just getting exhausted by this, seeing what is happening to their constituents and to the country, and that they are coming forward in any way to negotiate with one another?

CAI: Look, I think there is some signs that senators -- they want to talk to each other. We have a bipartisan lunch that's being organized by Sen. Paul from Kentucky and Sen. Gary Peters from Michigan. And they've invited the entire Senate -- all 100 of their colleagues -- to come and join them, and we're hearing that a majority of senators may show up. You know, that's not explicitly we're going to sit down to negotiate this bill, but it's -- it could be an opportunity to lower tensions in the Senate.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about something Mike Johnson said to our Kaitlan Collins about the Republicans' plan for dealing with expiring health care subsidies. He said look, we have a plan. We are ready to go right after Democrats vote to open the government and vote for the Republican spending gap bill.

Have you heard anything about this plan or is there -- is there any talk about this on the Hill or at the White House?

CAI: So what we know is that Speaker Johnson has not brought his members back. He's had one phone call with Hakeem Jeffries. We don't know what that phone call -- what came out of it. But he's saying look, we're not -- I'm not going to talk to Democrats because this is in the Senate.

So, no, I haven't heard about that bill.

SIDNER: All right, Sophia Cai. Thank you so much for being here this morning. I appreciate it -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So several hundred protesters hit the streets in New York last night to protest the ICE raids taking place -- that have been taking place in Chinatown's famous Canal Street. It all started this week as federal agents carried out a crackdown on Canal Street targeting illegal street vending, according to federal law enforcement officials. This is an area typically busy with merchants selling t-shirts, and perfumes, and designer knockoffs, if you will.

But it devolved into -- take a look at this -- a chaotic scene of New Yorkers facing off with federal ICE agents. Traffic forced to a standstill there with cars trapped between law enforcement and bystanders watching as the arrests unfold.

And new today we now have Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi saying that federal agents in San Francisco could face local criminal charges if they violate the rights of citizens. Critical because a source tells CNN that President Trump plans to send dozens of agents to San Francisco this week, which is Pelosi's district. Pelosi is saying police may arrest federal agents who violate California law.

Joining me right now is May Mailman, former Trump White House associate counsel, and Democratic strategist Matt Bennett. It's good to see you, guys.

So Matt, on the San Francisco situation the mayor of San Fran says that it's going to remain a sanctuary city in which local police are barred from assisting federal immigration enforcement. The governor vowed yesterday, very clearly, to sue the Trump administration. He held up a this is the lawsuit I'll file the moment -- the moment Trump sends in any military deployment.

[07:35:00]

I mean, this keeps expanding. Do you think Democrats have been effective in pushing back against these efforts to far?

MATT BENNETT, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS AND CO- FOUNDER, THIRD WAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY ASSISTANT, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Well, I don't think there is much Democrats can do substantively. The president can order troops and ICE agents onto the streets when he feels like it, as he's made clear and as we've seen. The question is whether this is having any political impact.

And I think it's important to emphasize two things. One is Democrats are not opposed to enforcing immigration laws. Barack Obama deported 3.1 million people during his time in office, which was more year- over-year than Trump did in his first term.

So it's not a question of whether or not the laws should be enforced. The question is how they should be enforced. And what we're seeing in city after city is this kind of thuggish enforcement with ICE agents not only going after sometimes citizens or legal aliens but when they are enforcing the law against people who are here illegally they're doing it in ways that are incredibly violent and, in many cases, violate the rights of the people that they're arresting.

So that, I think, is the problem the Democrats are really trying to address.

BOLDUAN: May, is, like, the law of diminishing returns starting to apply here? I mean, the president is sending agents in to crack down on street vendors now in New York City, something the NYPD could handle. And now he wants to go into San Francisco.

I mean, as a political show of force, do you believe this is still working in his favor?

MAY MAILMAN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ASSOCIATE COUNSEL (via Webex by Cisco): I do. Because if you think about the numbers, during President Biden's -- let's just talk about President Biden's four years -- we know that not only were there 11 million illegal encounters at the border that were recorded, but there were 1.7 million got-aways, meaning these are actually not encounters. These are people who never -- we don't even know who they are, we just know that they crossed the border illegally.

And so to then say well, now that you're here, I guess it's too hard to get you. It's too hard to remove you. Well then that means there is no border security. It's like telling your kid well, don't eat the chocolate. Well, OK, I guess now that you have, I guess have as much as you want. So then you actually don't have a no-chocolate policy. And that's exactly what's happening here. If you're going to have a

secure border, if you're going to say that crossing the border illegally is wrong, then there have to be consequences on the other side. And just because we like counterfeit goods, that type of illegal behavior is OK.

And in New York these people are robbers, they were burglars, they were drug traffickers, drug sellers. So this consequences for being here illegally and for breaking the law is something that Americans are behind.

BOLDUAN: But it's kind of to the degree is the -- is where kind of -- when you see this video of just, like, these encounters on the streets of New York just as the latest example, it's just like to the degree of how it's going down.

And we do know that DHS is very open and happy to have video and press releases, and this show because they like to put this out.

But there is also reporting of things that we're not seeing that is coming out. That -- when I read it I just -- I need to raise it. I mean, there's this reporting about how women are -- say they're being treated or mistreated while they are in ICE custody after these operations. The ACLU just sent a letter to multiple Senate committees and ICE demanding accountability here.

There's one account of a pregnant woman and how she says she was treated described in CNN reporting like this from this letter from the ACLU.

One woman referred to as Lucia reportedly spent a night bleeding and cramping without medical attention despite repeated pleas for help, according to this letter.

"Medical staff did not give her any food, water, or pain medication for several hours. Much later that evening, after a significant loss of blood, Lucia was transported to an emergency room about an hour away, with her arms and legs shackled. She later returned -- required a blood transfusion and was then informed she had miscarried. Returned to custody still in pain and bleeding, she was eventually deported," the letter said.

I mean, how should a Republican lawmaker or White House respond to that?

BENNETT: Well, literally --

MAILMAN: I don't think that anyone is saying that people --

BOLDUAN: Go ahead. That was to May.

MAILMAN: Yeah. Nobody's saying that people should be mistreated. If they are here illegally, they should be removed. And so there is always the option, and President Trump has been very clear about this about self-deportation. In fact, ICE will help facilitate air flights and costs even to get to where you need to go. And -- but being detained is obviously no place for somebody who is pregnant. For somebody who has a medical condition. And so it just brings up the point that if you are in the United States illegally, if the Trump administration is willing to facilitate your return back to your country where you are a citizen, then you should take them up on that offer.

[07:40:07]

BOLDUAN: Or you should risk miscarrying if you are in custody because we don't know this -- we don't actually know the deal of her status. I mean, that shouldn't be the options just when it comes to just a human being.

Matt, final word.

BENNETT: Right. I mean, the Trump administration has made clear that the cruelty here is part of the plan. They want to make these stories known. They want to show kids being taken away and zip-tied. They want moms yanked out of pickup lines at schools because they want people to self-deport. That is not how law enforcement is supposed to go in the United States. That is barbaric and that is the problem.

BOLDUAN: And it continues.

It's good to see you both. Thank you so much for coming in -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. New this morning, President Trump defending the deadly U.S. attacks on alleged drug runners as the campaign expands to a whole different ocean. New video showing the second of two strikes on boats in the eastern Pacific this week. The previous seven strikes that we know about all happened in the Caribbean Sea. Officials say at least 37 people have been killed in these strikes.

The president claims he has the authority to order these strikes, though that's not entirely clear. And now he says he may go to Congress to widen his campaign to targets on land.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will hit them very hard when they come in by land. And they haven't experienced that yet but now we're totally prepared to do that. We'll probably go back to Congress and explain exactly what we're doing when we come to the land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Joining me now is retired Army Major Mike Lyons. When you hear the president saying that he is looking at potentially hitting targets on land does that not set the stage for a conflict, if not war?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well Sara, yes, no question. This is a doctrinal change using the military now as a combatant force and combatant -- I guess, combatant narco terrorists here. It's a big change. It would require an authorized use from Congress to do this. According to the administration, they haven't started the war powers notification process yet.

But it's -- but it's a very big change and it's going to enforce the military to put assets in that region that they don't have. And now that it's expanded to the Pacific it's even now two channels. Two channels of ways that these drugs are being exported right now. So it's a very big shift with regard to U.S. policy.

SIDNER: Let me ask you about the White House saying that these strikes are legal and fall within existing authority. From a military standpoint, what kind of authorization typically would cover actions like these where you're seeing strikes happen in international waters?

LYONS: Well, the doctrine has changed where if he's calling them enemy combatants the law of armed warfare would apply here. But he would have the responsibility to report this back to Congress that he's using U.S. forces to do that by the War Powers Act. And then again, the clock starts within 60 days to get that authorization of use of military force or withdraw forces that are there.

He said he was going to go to Congress, so it looks like he's going to expand it. So I'm thinking this is looking like the way the U.S. fought ISIS against Afghanistan, and I think that's where the president wants to go here. Now, whether or not he'll be successful remains to be seen.

Right now these strikes are on these small boats that are really not impacting overall the movement of these drugs.

And he's got to recognize that with Colombia producing something like 2,500 metric tons of cocaine a year that to go in on the ground would be a very significant operation that if we're going to also isolate Colombia, which is another thing he said -- he's cutting them off --

SIDNER: Right.

LYONS: -- and we're going lose our eyes and ears that are there.

So I'm not sure where this is going. Over the horizon this is turning out to be a very large military operation.

SIDNER: I am curious from you if you are in any way surprised that we're seeing this from this president talking about hitting targets on land, talking about CIA operations inside Venezuela, and talking about striking wherever he wants, basically, in international waters.

From a president who has said he wanted to stay out of wars, does this strike you as a major, major shift?

LYONS: Yes, absolutely. This is not like going after Noriega in Panama in 1989 with three million people in Panama at that time. If we decide to do something inside of Venezuela with 30 million people, a layered military, it's a significant military operation. It's more than just some marines on a -- on a ship out in the Caribbean deciding that they're going to invade. So it is not a small task on any measure.

I think right now they're trying to project power and show deterrence to these cartels that they're going to do what they can to interdict. But that land bridge that exists between South America into Mexico is just as -- is just as hardy when it comes to moving these drugs.

[07:45:05]

So again, I'm not sure where this is going and I'm not even sure they know where it's going. Right now it's just looking like it's projecting power. But for them to bring more military assets into the region, which is what they'll need to go after those land assets, is just going to be a large military operation.

SIDNER: All right, Major Mike Lyons. It is a pleasure to have you here this morning. Thank you. I appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also this morning a huge moment for the Catholic Church and the British monarchy. King Charles and Queen Camilla just attended a service at the Vatican. Leading the service, Pope Leo. Their state visit marks the first time in 500 years a British monarch has prayed publicly with a pope.

CNN Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb joins us now from Rome. Quite a moment, Christopher. What happened today?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well Kate, yeah, truly historic to see an English monarch praying with a pope for the first time in at least 500 years, possibly longer. Pope Leo and the king prayer together in the Sistine Chapel -- a prayer service focused on care for creation, something that is a longstanding concern of the king and is a priority for Pope Leo.

In a few moments -- very soon the king will arrive here to the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls, papal basilica where he will be formally given a new title, which has been given by -- or approved by the pope.

This whole visit all about unity -- overcoming the divisions of the past. Of course, it was 500 years ago when King Henry VIII broke with Rome and established the Church of England -- or established himself as the leader of the Church of England. This trip seeing to overcome those past divisions -- a period when, of course, there was a lot of conflict between the papacy and the monarchy.

King Charles, a man of deep personal faith and also very keen to engage with the Catholic Church and with Pope Leo. A really historic moment in Rome, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. History playing out right before our eyes.

It's great to see you, Christopher. So thankful that you could be there. I really appreciate it -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Kate.

Still ahead how Suzanne Somers' husband is trying to keep her memory alive. And yes, AI is involved. Also, a tow truck hanging off an overpass in Texas. These are

incredible pictures here. There is also a rescue that you'll not want to miss. That coming up.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:51:40]

SIDNER: Suzanne Somers' husband says he has found a way to keep her memory alive two years after her death. Somers died in 2023 at the age of 76 after having survived an aggressive form of breast cancer for 23 years.

Now her husband of 55 years, Alan Hamel, says he's been working on an artificial intelligence clone of his late wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN HAMEL, WIDOWER OF SUZANNE SOMERS: Suzanne and I would talk about it and wonder when is it going to happen. And so we talked about doing it -- her doing it. She said I think I should do it. I think it's important. It's a new way to communicate, et cetera.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN's tech reporter Clare Duffy is with me now. This is both heartbreaking and strange, you know, at the same time.

How do you -- how do you see this? What are -- what are you learning about it?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah, it's really fascinating because you can understand the sort of appeal that this has. The desire to reconnect with loved ones who have passed.

And it's interesting to hear Alan Hamel there talk about the fact that he and Suzanne talked about this before her death. They actually learned about this concept from the computer scientist and writer Ray Kurzweil years ago.

And so he said that she was on board with his and since her death they've trained this AI twin on her books, hundreds of interviews that she's done. And now he says it's hard for him to tell the difference between sort of the real Suzanne that he knew and this AI twin.

Take a look at what he said about his experience using this for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMEL: So I talked to her for two minutes and it was little odd. And then after about two to three minutes I totally forgot I was talking to her twin. I was talking to a robot. And it was amazing -- really amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DUFFY: And it is kind of remarkable, right, that we can now create these sort of AI replicas of people. This is a new but growing trend. There are a number of people who are trying out this kind of idea.

But I will note a word of caution on this. I spoke on the podcast a few months ago with a young woman who tried to do this -- create the replica of her late father -- and she said it was not a positive experience. She said that AI started hallucinating memories that they'd had together, and it affected her real memory of her father.

SIDNER: I was going to ask you about that. This is one of those things where you could create this relationship that is with a bot -- and we're seeing that, right? Isn't that one of the biggest reasons, like, people go on and speak with bots?

DUFFY: Absolutely.

SIDNER: So the problems that this could also create.

DUFFY: Yeah.

And I spoke with an expert on grief who talked about that, sort of, this could be a positive thing in some ways for people to reconnect with their loved ones. But if it pulls you away from the real humans in your life -- the other support people in your life -- that there could be a real challenge here in terms of it's sort of isolating people around these past relationships and folks who are gone.

I also think there's a real question here around the sort of consent piece of this puzzle because if you've passed --

SIDNER: She consented. She wanted this.

DUFFY: Exactly. In this case, Suzanne did.

But I think as we see this growing trend of people trying to recreate AI replicas of people who have passed, I think there's a real question around can dead people consent to being recreated with AI and how do we deal with that as a society going forward?

[07:55:00]

I mean, we saw OpenAI pull back on recreations of Martin Luther King Jr. --

SIDNER: Right.

DUFFY: -- on its Sora app because his family said this is not the kind of thing that we want for our father.

And so I think this is a real thing that we're going to have to grapple with as this technology becomes more advanced.

SIDNER: Yeah. People who are also using Martin Luther King Jr. in a really negative light.

DUFFY: In offensive ways.

SIDNER: Offensive ways. So that's a possibility, too.

Clare Duffy, thank you so much. Great reporting.

DUFFY: Thank you.

SIDNER: Over to you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, darling.

New overnight, the Louvre didn't have security cameras monitoring the very spot where thieves broke in and stole $100 million in jewels this week. That is some of the information now coming out as part of this investigation and hearings that are taking place.

The museum's director offered her resignation over this historic robbery. That was rejected though. She also admitted that the security measures at the museum are "absolutely obsolete, even absent."

The last major renovation at the world-famous museum was back in the 1980s when the glass pyramid was added. You can be sure that is top of discussion now.

So if your Coca-Cola has got a little extra sparkle to it today it is not the fizz and it is also not a good thing. The FDA has announced a recall of certain Coca-Cola, Coke Zero, and Sprite cans. The reason, possible metal contamination.

The recall involves 35-pack and 12-pack cases distributed by Coca- Cola's Southwest Beverages. More than 4,000 cases are affected. They were only sold in Texas, so take note.

And taking her final turns and final bow right into history standing in front of what may be the absolute largest, most beautiful pile of flowers I have ever seen. Ballerina Misty Copeland said farewell to the American Ballet Theatre last night. Her performance, the first in five years on that stage, raised $6 million for the ballet company. The star-studded fall gala also featured tributes from Oprah Winfrey and choreographer extraordinaire Debbie Allen.

Copeland forever changed ballet, becoming ABT's first Black woman principal dancer back in 2015 and continuing even today to champion diversity across the art form.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY COPELAND, BALLERINA: I wouldn't be who I am if I hadn't been introduced to this incredible art form at a Boy's and Girl's Club. I just felt like we have to keep this going and give other children the same opportunities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Also this morning incredible video. A truck driver lucky to be alive after a crash left him and his truck just -- look at that -- dangling over a Texas overpass. You can see -- just look at -- I mean, that would be terrifying. And look at that concrete barrier and what happened to it.

It happened just north of Dallas. Police say the driver swerved to avoid a disabled vehicle, lost control, and slammed into that concrete barrier. After a careful rescue the driver was lowered to the ground, thankfully.

OK, so you also have this. Two political heavyweights are feuding and honestly, who knows when this is going to simmer down or where it actually goes from here. California Gov. Gavin Newsom and wildly popular podcaster Joe Rogan basically spending time and clearly enjoying trolling each other at this point, trading insults on their respective podcasts and also laying down challenges.

Elex Michaelson explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D) CALIFORNIA: Well, you start with Joe Rogan and I'm going to start cursing.

JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": He wants to be president so bad.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The governor of the most populous state and the host of one of the most popular podcasts are feuding.

NEWSOM: This is Gavin Newsom.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): California Gov. Gavin Newsom, who hosts his own podcast, has invited Joe Rogan onto his show and publicly asked to be invited onto Rogan's show.

NEWSOM: Joe, why won't you have me on the show? He won't have me on the show. It's a one-way and he has guests coming in attacking and bashing. But he will not have me on the show, period, full stop. He should have me on the show. Come on my show, Joe.

ROGAN: I think I'll probably vote for Bernie.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): Rogan expressing support for Bernie Sanders' presidential run in 2020 --

ROGAN: It's standup. It's funny stuff.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): -- and backed President Trump in 2024, though he's criticized some of his policies in recent months.

NEWSOM: What we're experiencing is America in reverse.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): But Rogan doesn't seem impressed by a potential Newsom presidential run in 2028.

ROGAN: You can't ruin a city and then go on to ruin a state and say guys, that was just practice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.

ROGAN: Once I get in as the president I'm going to fix it. I'm going to fix it all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, it's so crazy. But he's such as great politician. I mean, he's so smooth.

ROGAN: No, he's not. He's not, though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think so?

ROGAN: No, no. I think he's terrible.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): Rogan attacking Newsom's job performance in California.

ROGAN: You have the highest unemployment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

ROGAN: You have the highest homelessness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at even Hollywood. You have --

ROGAN: What is missing? He killed Hollywood. Like, Hollywood doesn't exist anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nah.

ROGAN: It's literally gone.

MICHAELSON (voiceover): Newsom responding to Rogan on X posting, "California is the fourth largest economy in the world, but number one in manufacturing, farming new business starts, tech and VC investments, Fortune 500 companies, public higher education. I could continue. Invite me on any time, Joe Rogan."

ROGAN: It was all that (bleep) before you were there. It was all that (bleep) forever. It's because the weather is perfect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

ROGAN: It has nothing to do with you.