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Numbers on Trump, Epstein and the GOP Base; Lisa Bloom is Interviewed about the Epstein Files; Dana Stroul is Interviewed about the Saudi Crown Prince's Visit; Jodi Cohen is Interviewed about ICE Raids; A.I. Could Fix Air Traffic Controller Shortage. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 18, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:34]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: New for you this morning, the TSA investigating how someone managed to board a plane in Portland, Oregon, with a meat cleaver in their carry on. The heavy-duty knife was in a carry on and made it through TSA checks somehow. It wasn't discovered until Delta's staff reported its presence after a passenger brought it onto a flight to Salt Lake City. All passengers ended up having to be taken off the plane and rescreened by TSA before it took off. No arrests were made. And officials are trying to get to the bottom of two things, how the meat cleaver got through security and why the passenger had it with them in the first place. The flight, as you might imagine, it arrived in Salt Lake City a couple of hours late.

Now, from meat cleavers to magic mushrooms. A former Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to cut the engines off a passenger flight, who had taken psychedelic mushrooms, will serve no prison time. The pilot was riding off duty in the cockpit. The case drew massive attention after Joseph Emerson tried to cut the engines off a Horizon Air flight from Everett, Washington, to San Francisco on October 22, 2023. He told police he was despondent over a friend's recent death and had taken psychedelic mushrooms about two days earlier and hadn't slept in more than 40 hours. The judge sentenced Emerson to credit for time served and supervised release for three years. The judge called the case a cautionary tale, and that, quote, "pilots are not perfect. They are human. They are people. And all people need a little help sometimes."

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sara, thank you so much.

Today, the House will finally vote to force the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files from the Justice Department. President Trump now says that he will sign that bill if it reaches his desk. It is quite a 180 and reversal from the stance that he had just a few days ago and held for many, many months. Republican leaders were bracing last week for its -- for many members, many Republican members, to vote in support of the files. And now, with Trump's blessing, it's expected to receive even more Republican support.

What are the numbers behind this? CNN's Harry Enten is running the numbers for you on this. Why were Republicans willing, from the numbers that you see on this one to go against what Donald Trump wanted?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, usually Donald Trump has his pulse on the Republican base, but he did not on this issue.

Because what are we talking about, Kate Bolduan? Well, GOP on the Epstein files, approve of Trump. We're used to seeing approval of Trump among Republicans being 85, 90 percent. But when it came to the Epstein files, look at this, just 44 percent. South of 50 percent of Republicans actually approved on Donald Trump when it came to the Epstein files. Compare that to this. How -- what was the percentage of Republicans that wanted all of the Epstein files released, 67 percent. So, what we were dealing with is simple mathematics. The Republican base was against Donald Trump on the Epstein files. They were with the idea of releasing them. The Republican representatives saw that and therefore were not afraid to go against Donald Trump because this was the rare instance in which the Republican base was not with Donald Trump, they were actually with the idea of being against Donald Trump and releasing the Epstein files.

BOLDUAN: And one way that you have long been able to kind of gauge, at least if people are really interested in something, is how you're gauging on Google searches. What has that shown (INAUDIBLE)?

ENTEN: Yes, what is that showing? You know, back in July there was this idea, there was this push, right, to release the Epstein files. And Mike Johnson said, you know what, I'm sending the House home. Adios, amigos, goodbye. There was interest in it, but not to the degree that we're seeing right now.

OK, Google searches for Jeffrey Epstein versus a week ago, up nearly 1,200 percent. That -- we have seen more searches over the last five day period for Jeffrey Epstein than any five-day period this entire year. Much more so than we saw even in July. And more than that, the top associated search topic with Jeffrey Epstein was Donald Trump. This problem, simply put, was not going away. So, what you were dealing with was, many Republicans unhappy with how Trump was dealing with the Epstein files. Many Republicans wanting those Epstein files released. And more than that, it was climbing in the interest levels. So, it wasn't going away. So, all of a sudden the Republican representatives are saying, jailbreak time. Adios, amigos. We're going to leave Donald Trump. We are going to vote to release those files long before Donald Trump even said, you know what, you should release them all.

BOLDUAN: What are you seeing in terms of what people think really are the chances that the files will be released now?

ENTEN: OK, so we're going to hold this House vote, right?

BOLDUAN: Right. ENTEN: Right. And we expect that a lot of House Republicans are going

to say release them. But there is still a problem insofar as getting them released.

[08:35:02]

That is the united -- one of the biggest problems is the United States Senate. They may not even vote on it. And so, here we go. This is a, I think, a good sort of baseline understanding of will Donald Trump actually release any more Epstein files before the end of his second term?

On Saturday it was 50 percent. Now Trump says, you know, we should release them all. If a bill gets to my desk, I would sign it. But even so, it's still 72 percent. So, majority chance that we will see more Epstein files, and these are a good use of prediction markets, because it's conventional wisdom baseline where people are putting their money, but it's still far less than 100 percent because, hey, look, we got to still wait and see if the United States Senate actually gets a vote on this.

BOLDUAN: Yes, there's a lot that still does need to happen before that's a sure thing.

It's good to see you, Harry. Thank you so much.

ENTEN: Nice to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is Lisa Bloom, a victims rights attorney who has represented 11 Epstein survivors.

Lisa, good to see you.

we are expecting to hear from a group of survivors up on Capitol Hill very shortly in advance of this House vote. Wondering if you have a sense of how the survivor community is feeling now? Because a lot has happened in just the last week between the emails that came out, this sudden reversal from the president, this imminent house vote. What's the feeling in the community?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY FOR EPSTEIN VICTIMS: Well, thanks, John.

I can tell you that the 11 very brave women who I've been representing since 2019 are really suffering as this is thrown around like a political football. And all they have ever wanted was accountability and transparency. Release the files, redact the name of the survivors, and let's have accountability for everybody who was involved with this predator.

BERMAN: So, accountability. And you say they are still suffering because it's being used as a political football.

I want to play for you how the president said he would handle it if this bill does reach his desk. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm all for it. You know, we've already given 50,000 pages. You do know that.

They can do whatever they want. Well give them everything.

REPORTER: You would sign it if it comes to your desk?

TRUMP: Sure I would. Let the -- let the Senate look at it. Let anybody look at it. But don't talk about it too much, because, honestly, I don't want to take it away from us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: But don't talk about it too much because I don't want it to take away from us. And what struck me there is, because of what you were saying before, the survivors feel like they're being dragged through a political morass right now.

BLOOM: I mean, look, does anyone really think that Donald Trump cares about sexual assault victims? This is a man that a jury found liable for sexual assault a few years ago. He said very recently that the release of the files was a Democratic hoax and a hostile act. He tried to get a congresswoman to flip. That didn't work.

If Donald Trump really cared and really wanted the files released, he could order that on his own without Congress. But he's continuing to play political games, and the trauma of the victims continues.

BERMAN: With the revelations, and I use that word, not with a capital r, but what -- with what has been revealed in the last week inside the emails there, you've been involved with these cases for a long time. You know, how much more information do you think there is that will come to light?

BLOOM: Listen, we've been surprised each time there has been a release. I mean, Epstein is now speaking from the grave and pointing a finger at Donald Trump, saying in the recent release that he spent time -- he, Trump, spent time alone with one of the victims for hours, that Jeffrey Epstein could finish Donald Trump, take him down. In one of the tapes, Epstein said that he was Donald Trump's best friend for ten years. So, these are really striking revelations. We can only imagine what's going to come next.

But instead of the drip, drip, drip of the release of documents that continues to retraumatize the survivors, let's release it all. Let the advocates like me pour over it and we can go after anybody else who is accountable. There should be congressional investigations. I mean the release of the files is only just the beginning. That's what we, on behalf of the survivors, are hoping.

BERMAN: Just in terms of the emails that were released, the name that was redacted from those files, where Jeffrey Epstein said that Donald Trump had spent a lot of time with one of the survivors, Republicans have said that redacted name was Virginia Giuffre, who has taken her own life now. But she had consistently said that Donald Trump did nothing wrong with her. That said, it was there in the emails.

You used the term drip, drip, drip of information. Things continue to come out piecemeal. You think it would be different if it were all out at once. Why?

BLOOM: Absolutely. Because again, we're talking about real human beings. I mean the 11 victims, who I represent, are everyday people who are still dealing with the trauma, the substance abuse, the problems in their relationships, depression. You mentioned Virginia Giuffre, suicidality.

[08:40:03]

They're trying to move on and live their lives.

We were able to fight for and get for them substantial compensation against the Epstein estate and against JP Morgan, the bank that was found to have been complicit. But they can't move on every time they, you know, look at the news and they see there's more information that's coming to light. So, that's why we need to get this done. We need to get full accountability for anybody who's involved.

BERMAN: Yes, it's real life for these women, many of whom we're going to hear from today.

BLOOM: Yes.

BERMAN: This isn't about scoring political points. This is about living their lives.

BLOOM: Yes.

BERMAN: Lisa Bloom, thanks so much for being with us this morning. I appreciate it.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, today, President Trump is pulling out all the stops to welcome the Saudi crown prince to the White House. It is the first time Mohammed bin Salman has been welcomed to the White House since the killing and dismemberment of "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi Arabian consulate in Turkey. The crown prince, often referred to as MBS, is set to arrive to a ceremony involving military bands, a bilateral meeting and a black-tie dinner.

Ahead of the visit today, President Trump announced the U.S. would be selling F-35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia.

Joining us now is Dana Stroul, the former deputy assistant secretary of defense for the Middle East.

Thank you so much for being here.

What does this mean in -- what does this meeting signify to you as someone who has long studied Middle East relations?

DANA STROUL, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, "THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: Good to be with you this morning.

I think it signifies a real shift in how Washington and the United States views the necessity of a partnership with Saudi Arabia. So, when we used to talk about the Middle East, we'd talk about counterterrorism, about Iran, about bad things. But now the elite consensus here is that you need a relationship with Saudi Arabia for economic security, for commercial, for A.I., in addition to the really important security relationship. And so, what's interesting about the meeting today is how it's really continuity from previous President Joe Biden visiting Saudi Arabia in 2022, to Donald Trump, in his second administration, making it his first presidential stop. And now all of the pageantry of this reciprocal visit today.

SIDNER: Can you take us back to the murder and dismemberment of journalist Khashoggi? I mean, how did Mohammed bin Salman go from, as you wrote, pariah to partner after all of that, because the Biden administration also softened its stance during -- towards MBS.

STROUL: Absolutely. So, during the first Trump administration, there was obviously bipartisan outcry about that heinous act, the murder of a "Washington Post" columnist. There was also a lot of concern about the nature of military operations that Saudi Arabia was carrying out in Yemen. And what we've seen over these past seven years is a real shift in President Biden's administration. He went from suspending certain arms sales and really criticizing Saudi Arabia, to realizing that for U.S. security interests, not only in the Middle East, but globally, you need a really strong, resilient partnership with Saudi Arabia that spans not just security, not just defense, but economics as well.

SIDNER: There were some serious negotiations during the first Trump administration for a deal that would normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Then came the October 7th attack by Hamas and the subsequent war in Gaza. What are the chances of that being back on the table and of that succeeding?

STROUL: Well, I think normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel is definitely on the table. But here's what's different. During the Biden administration, what was contemplated was a whole suite of agreements. So, while Saudi Arabia and Israel normalized relations with each other, there would also be all of these U.S. commitments to Saudi Arabia, a defense treaty, a civilian nuclear agreement, all of these other things.

What's different this time is that the Trump administration is decoupling those. So, it's going to move forward. We're going to see really big announcements about U.S. commitment to Saudi security. We're going to see the sale of F-35s in an announcement. We're going to see things about a civilian nuclear agreement. But President Trump is not demanding that those happen at the same time as normalization with Israel. They're decoupled.

SIDNER: Will you also be watching for the fact that there are some personal things to gain for the Trumps? We know that, for example, Jared Kushner had a huge deal where he got several billion dollars, or a couple billion dollars, of Saudi money. Will you be watching to see how this plays out on a personal level as well?

STROUL: Absolutely. I think what's completely unprecedented about the current administration, about the Trump administration, is this blending of the political, the personal and the business and official.

[08:45:01]

So, at the same time that we are deepening U.S. security and economic and technology engagements between American private sector, American government, American military, and Saudi Arabia, you also have the Trump Organization, Trump's sons, those around him announcing resorts, big real estate development, cryptocurrency, all of these things. So, the blending of the personal and the official is unprecedented.

But, of course, when you think about a country like Saudi Arabia, or others in the gulf, these are monarchies. They're not a democracy like ours. And they are always blending the personal and the official. And so they're more than happy to reciprocate with the Trump administration to get what MBS wants here.

SIDNER: Dana Stroul, thank you so much for your analysis. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The government is open, but air travel is still battling with very challenging air traffic control staffing issues. Could A.I. be the thing to help?

Plus, it is the last thing you would expect to face at the dollar store.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like, I'm probably going to get eaten by a bear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The trip to the store that one Pennsylvania boy will never forget.

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[08:51:07]

SIDNER: It was a spectacle straight out of a crime drama. A Black Hawk helicopter hovering above as federal agents burst into an apartment building in the middle of the night, dragging out and zip tying residents. But in Chicago, it was real. This is video released by the Department of Homeland Security. The Trump administration hailed this as a success to rid the place of Venezuelan Tren de Aragua gang members.

But what happened after the raid? ProPublica investigated and says it found little to support the government's claims. ProPublica reporter Jodi Cohen joins me now.

You and your colleagues looked into this, and you reported that the SWAT teams were there. There were some 300 federal agents. Many people were detained, including American citizens, but ultimately 37 immigrants were arrested. So, how many of the arrests actually resulted in criminal charges?

JODI COHEN, PROPUBLICA REPORTER: No arrests resulted in any criminal charges since that raid took place about two months ago now.

SIDNER: None?

COHEN: There were none. And no criminal charges. Many of the men have been through immigration court, where the government can say if there is criminal history, none have that -- in the cases that we have been able to watch, which is -- which is eight of them so far, there have been no demonstration of criminal history, no affiliations with gang ties. And we were able to background many of the 37 because we were able to identify them and we could look at their backgrounds, their records. And there has been no -- no official record we could find of any terrorist ties or gang activity.

SIDNER: The Trump administration has deemed Tren de Aragua a terrorist organization. So, how did you manage to speak with these family members and some of those who were arrested? What did they tell you, and how did the claims stack up against the actual criminal histories of those who you spoke with?

COHEN: So, the claims so far have not stacked up. We, at ProPublica, we've spoken with 12 of the people taken that night, including some of the women who were taken. Remember, it was -- there were women and children who were taken out of that building, immigrants and U.S. citizens. Men and women were zip tied and taken away. It was dark, obviously, you can see. It was after midnight. There were at least 17 who were put on a bus and taken straight to a jail in Indiana.

And we have, as you said, we have spoken to some of them, and there were -- you know, the building was known as a problem that, you know, it's a building that's been around for a long time in the south shore neighborhood of Chicago. Theres's crime there. Theres's poverty. And it wasn't, you know, the perfect building, but there were also, like, hard-working families there, immigrants and citizens. We spoke to one family. The man washed dishes in Chinatown. Another, you know, took busses and trains to Home Depot. They -- some of them are still in jail. Some have left the country. They've asked to be voluntary -- for voluntary departure, and the government has said OK. That is not granted to people with big, criminal histories. And, yes.

SIDNER: Yes. I do want to ask you what you learned about the intelligence that the government relied on to justify what really is an extraordinary operation when you consider the Black Hawk helicopter and the number of agents that went in. And the comments that you're hearing from people who were there that night of how disturbing this all was and the way it took place.

COHEN: So, we don't have a, you know, we don't know all the intelligence that they relied on.

[08:55:04]

They invited a camera crew -- the Department of Homeland Security invited a camera crew along. They gave an interview prior to entering the building and afterward saying they were there because the building was filled with terrorists, that they were going to make this neighborhood safer.

And, you know, they're -- like I said, there was crime in the building. There had been a murder earlier in the year not linked to Tren de Aragua. There were 911 calls. Three one -- like 311 calls for help. 311 being for things like the elevators not working and problems in the building. And so it was known as a building with problems. But the idea that this was a gang-filled building has not been proven by the government.

SIDNER: Jodi Cohen, thank you to you and your colleagues for your reporting on this. Thank you so much. I do appreciate you coming on this morning.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: There is new video in this morning of fire crews responding to a home in the Los Angeles area. The reports -- two reports of an explosion very clearly. Investigators say eight people, including children, were injured in the blast, which also damaged two homes nearby. Fire officials say the explosion was caused by a gas leak.

In Pennsylvania, a young boy narrowly escaped a black bear at the local dollar store. Eleven years old, he says that he ran into a store with a bear hot on his heels. The moment the bear jumped over the store counter was actually caught on camera. This is crazy looking. The boy was eventually able to make it -- the boy and his father were eventually able to make it to the car to hide before the bear had had enough and walked out on its own.

A 39-year-old man is also now back in custody after he escaped from jail. Florida police launched a manhunt Sunday after the inmate managed to slip out during kitchen work detail. He ditched his prison uniform, took off on an e-bike and then eventually stole a vehicle. Police eventually then tracked him down near a pond, where he tried to make one last ditch effort for freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop! Get on the ground! Get on the -- let me see your hands!

He's running. He's running back towards 675.

He's running. He's running towards this body of water, this pond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Inmate back behind bars. The sheriff's office now says new security measures are in place to make sure this does not happen again.

John.

BERMAN: Kind of obsessed with the bear in the dollar store. I mean, apparently it's just a bear who likes a good bargain.

BOLDUAN: Yes. But, John, you can't climb over the counter, no matter what.

BERMAN: That's a good point. That's a good point. Etiquette still matters, even when you are looking for a bargain.

Thank you so much.

All right, new this morning, the government shutdown may be over, but airports across the country are still dealing with a shortage of air traffic controllers. This is an issue that's been a problem for years. And controllers have been under stress for years. So, could artificial intelligence be the solution here?

CNN business tech editor Lisa Eadicicco is with us now.

So, how is A.I. going to save us here?

LISA EADICICCO, CNN BUSINESS TECH EDITOR: So, there are ways where A.I. can help, but more in an assistive capacity rather than automating or taking over certain parts of the job. And that's because with a job like air traffic control, there's really no room for error or uncertainty because the safety risks, of course, are enormous.

So, there are certain parts of the job, especially when it comes to communication, that it's just unclear if A.I. is going to be as good at those things as humans. For example, a big part of the job is communicating with pilots. And if you're an air traffic controller, if you hear panic or uncertainty in a pilot's voice or in a fellow controller's voice, you know something's wrong. You know you might have to step in. You know you might need to get help.

It's unclear if A.I. is really going to be able to help with those things, or detect those cues in the same way. And plus, A.I. is moving so quickly that it would be difficult to certify the technology for that kind of use because there isn't much regulation and the technology is moving really, really quickly.

BERMAN: That's a really good point, actually. I hadn't thought about that. You know, air traffic control, yes, it is a science. You're looking at radar and you're actually communicating. But there's an art to it also where you have to be able to interpret the things and the people that you're interacting with. And that's something that A.I. isn't seen as doing as well?

EADICICCO: It's something that I think we have a lot more faith in humans to do right now, and you get a lot of similar comparisons when it comes to self-driving cars as well. There's been similar concerns that have been brought up about whether these vehicles can detect things like hand signals and eye contact with other drivers as well. But like you mentioned, there are some useful applications, especially

when it comes to analyzing data and weather patterns and things like that.

BERMAN: They can go through it very, very quickly.

The other thing with A.I., for those who use it, you know, in research and whatnot, it's a zero fail -- it needs to be a zero fail operation. And you can't always trust A.I. to never fail, right?

EADICICCO: Exactly.

BERMAN: And in air traffic control, that's what you need.

Lisa Eadicicco, great to see you. Thank you so much.

Brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

[09:00:05]

BOLDUAN: This morning we're standing by for the House and a long awaited.