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How Prices are Impacting Voters in Pennsylvania County Trump Won Twice; Offshore Drilling Plan Ignites Environmental, Political Battles; Interview with Rep. Chrissy Houlahan (D-PA): Trump Attacks Democrats Who Urge Military to Refuse Illegal Orders; Survivors Hopeful After Trump Signs Bill Forcing Epstein Files Release. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired November 21, 2025 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00]
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we're learning that about 800 air traffic controllers and technicians will get a $10,000 bonus for working through the longest government shutdown in U.S. history. The Department of Transportation and the FAA say the award will only go to employees who had perfect attendance during those 44 days. That leaves out about 20,000 other workers.
The bonuses will go out by December 9th. Officials say this is to honor their commitment and service during an exceptionally challenging time -- John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are standing by for the release of a new report on consumer sentiment. Whatever the data shows, clearly over the last few months affordability has become a big issue. Vice President J.D. Vance even conceded Americans are unhappy over prices.
CNN's John King visited Bethlehem, Pennsylvania for this edition of "ALL OVER THE MAP."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bethlehem is blue collar, full of people living paycheck to paycheck. Full of people who come to Jenique Jones for help.
JENIQUE JONES, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: My business assists people in repairing their credit, managing their finances and basically being financially organized.
KING: So if you're busy, times are tough.
JONES: Absolutely, completely.
KING: And you're busy right now?
JONES: Super busy.
KING: What kind of stories are you hearing?
JONES: My husband lost all of his overtime. My kid's daycare went up. Can't afford the cost of food. Using credit cards for everyday expenses. No money left after their bills are paid. Pretty much just a whole bunch of financial mess.
KING: We changed presidents at the beginning of the year.
JONES: We did.
KING: And the guy who moved into the White House said that he was going to fix it. Several times he said it would be easy.
JONES: Absolutely.
KING: Has he fixed it?
JONES: Absolutely not. I'm definitely waiting for him to fix it.
KING (voice-over): Jones is a three-time Trump voter, but she says he has simply failed to keep his promise to lower the cost of living.
JONES: I'm very let down by that. Very, very let down because I feel like it's only gotten worse.
KING: Pennsylvania ranks highest among the states in terms of food inflation. Grocery prices here up more than 8 percent this past year. That is way above the national average.
Housing costs are another piece of the affordability challenge. A one- bedroom apartment here in Bethlehem runs about $1,900 a month on average. That is up nearly 6 percent from last year.
KING (voice-over): This is Gentleman's Barbershop. Customers gripe a lot about rising costs. Ashley Ruiz tries to help.
ASHLEY RUIZ, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: I'll tell the client, hey, if you get it cut a little shorter, the haircut will have a longer lifeline. Because I want them to feel like they're getting a service that will last longer so their money goes further.
KING (voice-over): She gets it because she does the tough math at home. Rent, food, childcare.
KING: All up.
RUIZ: They are a lot higher. So I try to make wiser decisions and hope that things will get better.
KING (voice-over): A mix of politics around this table, but everyone agrees costs are up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Insurance is crazy. It's coming on more crazy than next year. KING (voice-over): Owner Ronald Corales is another three-time Trump voter. When clients or co-workers grumble about costs, Corales urges patience.
RONALD CORALES. PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: Well, hopefully soon. I mean, like --
KING: But it hasn't happened yet?
CORALES: Not really. We don't really see it at the moment. Like I said, I think we have to give him some time.
KING: Back in Bethlehem's heyday, this was its economic powerhouse, Bethlehem Steel. But the blast furnace here last fired 30 years ago, November 1995. A lot of change, but Bethlehem still matters politically.
This is Pennsylvania's bellwether, Northampton County, a place known for picking winners. The winner here in Northampton has gone on to win statewide and win the White House in the last five presidential elections. And in 29 of the 32 presidential elections dating back to 1900.
[08:35:00]
Trump's win here in 2024 also helped flip this congressional district, Pennsylvania's seventh, from blue to red. Now, the margin in that House race was just 4,000 votes. And so, with affordability as issue number one, Democrats have this district high on the target list as they try to retake the House in next year's midterms.
KING (voice-over): John and Lisa Ronca own Cutter's Bike Shop. Their teenage daughter rides competitively. Sometimes gets injured. They get their health insurance through the Obamacare exchange, and their renewal letter just came.
LISA RONCA, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: It's going to be triple and --
JOHN RONCA, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: Triple this year.
L. RONCA: -- which equates to double the cost of what we pay for our mortgage for our house. So that's so we can't keep that plan, to say the least.
KING (voice-over): Health care costs going up, their profit margin already down.
KING: Why? Is this a tariff question?
J. RONCA: Every, like, two to three months, we get letters from the companies, you know, we got to increase. We're having a 10 percent increase, another 10 percent increase. And it just keeps, keeps escalating.
KING (voice-over): Sales tend to spike around Christmas, but they're worried this year.
L. RONCA: 20 inch single speed kids bike was $250, which is still decent, decently high. $400 just in the last couple of months. So it's kind of tough. I don't know how many kids bikes we're getting for Christmas. I mean, who's going to spend?
KING: From $250 --
L. RONCA: To $400.
KING: -- to $400 in a couple of months --
L. RONCA: Yes.
KING: -- this year.
L. RONCA: Yes.
KING (voice-over): The Roncas don't like Trump and tend to vote blue. But they did support moderate Republican Charlie Dent a few years back when he was the congressman here.
J. RONCA: And it's like I have no problem voting for either side if the person's good for the area.
KING (voice-over): But their stress this November shapes their early thoughts about next November.
L. RONCA: Yes, just this year, it's a big change.
KING: He keeps saying that that's a myth, that prices are down, that, you know, they're gone. Inflation's over.
L. RONCA: He doesn't go food shopping. I mean, I don't know. Yes, it's hard.
KING: How do you vote? Local or national?
J. RONCA: I would -- to me, I'm going to vote for a person who puts a check on them. You know what I mean? Who's going to --
L. RONCA: Yes.
J. RONCA: -- who's going to reign --
KING: Right.
J. RONCA: -- the President in.
KING (voice-over): Frustration with prices and with the President in one of those places that tends to decide whether the country stays the course or shifts gears.
John King, CNN, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BOLDUAN: John King, thank you so much for that.
Let's turn to this. A new plan from the Trump administration could reshape America's coastlines from California to Florida. It all has to do with opening up federal waters to offshore drilling for the first time in decades.
CNN's Bill Weir has new reporting on this. He's joining us right now with that. Bill, walk us through what's on the table here.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, this is a big thumb in the eye of environmentalists and Western governors like Gavin Newsom. There hasn't been offshore oil drilling in California since the late 1960s when an oil spill there really launched the modern environmental movement.
So while much of the world is gathered in Belem, those climate negotiators down there trying to get developing countries away from this very idea, the Trump administration announces 1.3 billion acres of land they want to open up, the entire California coast. It would be the entire Alaskan coast. And for the first time ever, the icy high Arctic is hundreds of miles north of Alaska.
And then there is the eastern part of the Gulf of Mexico, you know, not far from the Deepwater Horizon spill, the worst oil spill in U.S. history. There, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis last year -- or during the first Trump term really pushed back at any drilling around there but seems to have made peace over this idea.
Of course, the resistance is going to be fierce, especially from the West Coast there. This, we got a quote from Attorney General Rob Bonta. Time and again, President Trump has shown the interest lies with his big oil friends profiting at the expense of our environment and public health. We won't stand for this. We're exploring our legal options.
Both Senator Alex Padilla and Representative Jared Huffman says, "This plan targets California, the whole West Coast, because they think we will roll over. They are wrong. We're going to fight this with everything we have."
And of course, environmental groups launching their legal pushback as well. "This plan draft plan is an oil spill nightmare." Its campaign director, Joseph Gordon of the Oceans nonprofit. "The last thing America needs now is a massive expansion of offshore drilling that could shut down our shores with catastrophic oil spills."
So but just for perspective, there is less than 20 offshore rigs working in the U.S. right now. Two years ago, there was 750 onshore oil wells working.
Now there's less than 550. So the market for this is not screaming with demand. Oil is near $60 a barrel.
These are hugely expensive things that will take years and much resistance between now and then. But right now, which is the latest example of that Project 2025 playbook, which is go maximum against all environmental concerns.
BOLDUAN: Yes, and you point out the timing.
[08:40:00]
The timing on this is a critical piece of it. How long do they open it up? How long do you see any perceived benefit from it? Long time. Bill, great to see you. Thank you so much -- John.
BERMAN: All right. This morning, fresh reaction after the president accused six Democrats of seditious behavior, and he later said their behavior was punishable by death. These Democrats have posted a video reminding military service members that they can, in fact, some cases must disobey illegal orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can refuse illegal orders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must refuse illegal orders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law --
REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): -- or our Constitution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, one of the Democratic lawmakers in that video, Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan from Pennsylvania, joins us now. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us.
There is concern after the president said that this behavior could result in death. There is concern over safety. What precautions are you taking this morning?
REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Good morning, and thanks for having me under really difficult circumstances. I will be honest. Being a member of Congress is always something where your safety is at risk.
And so for me, this isn't really a very different posture than before. You know, of course, I'm very worried about this office and my team and my family. But I think I'm just continually stunned by the fact that I'm worried about it is because the commander in chief, the president of the United States, has called for my death.
And that's something that should just be chilling for everybody. And everybody should be worried about their safety in this nation when the president can wield that sort of a statement.
BERMAN: The Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, was asked about this last night. I want you to listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: The words that the president chose are not the ones that I would use, OK. Obviously, I don't think that this is -- these are crimes punishable by death or any of that. OK. But what -- what the point that isn't -- that we need to emphasize here is that members of Congress and the Senate and the House should not be telling troops to disobey orders.
It is dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now he left out the word illegal there. But what did you think of his response there, saying that he would not have used the words the president did?
HOULAHAN: Yes, and yet another mealy mouthed response from our speaker of the House who continues to disappoint me with his inability to lead the entire House. What he's basically said is I wouldn't have said that. The problem is, is this president says things and then means it.
And so it's really hard for him to kind of come across with that and then to say, as you mentioned, something as inaccurate as the fact that we are asking for people to disobey orders. We indeed are asking people to make sure that they don't obey illegal orders. And that is something that each one of us learns when we're a young lieutenant or a young, enlisted person about the U.S. Military Code of Justice, that we are required to disobey illegal orders. And that's simply what this message said.
BERMAN: Yes, the Uniform Court of Military Justice, part of training for every service member. You have been asked repeatedly if you were referring to something specific, correct? And you have said, all six of you have said, no, this wasn't a reference to something specific.
But let me ask this in a different way. The strikes on drug boats or so-called drug boats off the coast of Venezuela. Do you believe that any of those orders are illegal?
HOULAHAN: You know, there's certainly the possibility that there is there there. I serve on the Intelligence Committee. I serve on the Armed Services Committee here.
One of the biggest problems with having had the government shuttered for so long is that a lot of the oversight that we are required to do or are supposed to do just simply didn't happen, hasn't happened in that area. Another one of the problems of this majority is that they haven't even asked for it. You know, I'm very, very willing and very ready to have those briefings about the intelligence that is being used and collected in execution of those sorts of attacks.
Very, very willing to have that kind of briefing about the rationale and the reasoning behind those kinds of attacks. But this administration hasn't been forthcoming, and this leadership hasn't been demanding of that. And so this administration has done hundreds of things that have ended
up in the courts for their potential illegality. And in many cases, they've been ruled as being illegal. And so this isn't about one event. It's about the culmination of a lot of things and the future of where we're heading with those.
BERMAN: If a sailor in the Caribbean right now is given an order that you think possibly could, there may be some there in terms of legality is what you said there. What are they to do?
HOULAHAN: So I tell this story of a very critical, crucial, sharp memory in my childhood where my dad was explaining this to me. My dad served a career in the Navy as did my grandfather.
[08:45:00]
And he explained to me as a girl that if you receive an order that you are not sure of, you have a duty to question your commander, the person next in your chain of command. If that person says, nope, this is what the order is and you still have an issue, you do have a duty to go up your chain of command to ask those questions. And you have an ability to go to the JAG and talk to them about that as well.
Listen, I think that this is an amazing turn of events. Again, when we're talking about the fact that we're being threatened with death for asking people to follow the law, it is a case in point of why we were concerned to begin with.
BERMAN: What do you want to hear from other elected leaders today? Look, I'm sure we'll hear from the president at some point today. What do you want to hear from him?
What do you want to hear now from other elected leaders, specifically Republicans?
HOULAHAN: Sure, sure. I'm kind of known as -- not even kind of -- I am known as one of the most bipartisan members of Congress. I work very, very hard with my relationship across the aisle and work very, very hard to be pragmatic and reasonable, very supportive of the work of this Congress and its gravitas and the fact that it is so sober.
I'm just stunned by the fact that not a single Republican has reached out to me, either privately or publicly, to decry this amazing, amazing turn of events with this president. And that is also damning and telling, either for fear or for -- I can't even explain the reason why this would not have ended up with somebody reaching out to me, either publicly or privately, to say that this is wrong. Enormously disappointing.
BERMAN: No one's reached out to you at all, no texts, no phone calls, no nothing.
HOULAHAN: Not on the Republican side, no.
BERMAN: All right, Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan from Pennsylvania, I think your ride may be there. I heard the honking outside. We appreciate you being with us.
Thank you so much -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Apocalyptic scenes playing out in Texas. One town gets hit by a wall of dirt and dust. We're going to show you a little bit more about that.
And a Miss Universe contestant taken to the hospital after falling on the stage. Be right back.
[08:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SIDNER: The survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse are feeling something they haven't in decades. Hope that there are people behind their abuse will finally be exposed and perhaps face justice.
This week, Congress passed a bill. Trump signed it, ordering the Justice Department to release all of its files on Jeffrey Epstein. The DOJ has less than 30 days to make that happen.
But this morning, there is concern among lawmakers and the survivors of Epstein about what the DOJ will actually put out, given there are exceptions in the bill. With me now is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, Lisa Phillips. Thank you so much for joining me this morning.
First off, what has all this meant to you, to see Congress push this through, to see the president signing this bill, and to have it out there now it's in the hands of the DOJ and they have 30 days to comply?
LISA PHILLIPS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN ABUSE SURVIVOR: Well, first of all, it means a lot to me. We've worked really hard to get to this point. As the DOJ starts combing through the files, this is where the concerns become real for us.
I believe there will be battles over redactions between Congress, the DOJ, the courts, also survivor groups. I also believe oversight hearings are likely. Members of Congress can subpoena the DOJ officials to justify redactions.
And so this is the time when the public pressure will really matter. And the more vocal survivors are, and the more vocal the public is, the harder it becomes to hide anything.
SIDNER: I do want to ask you about that, as you said, there are some exceptions. One of those exceptions is that if something is under investigation, that those files could be withheld. Trump has pushed the DOJ to investigate Democrats specifically with ties to Epstein.
And now the DOJ is going ahead and doing that. Are you concerned that that is one of those things, that it's going to keep these files from public view?
PHILLIPS: I mean historically, the DOJ withholds portions of sensitive files. They use national security classifications, privacy protections, ongoing investigation exemptions. And as we know, these exemptions they're used narrowly or broadly.
And I personally worry about over-redaction that could hide the names of powerful individuals, enablers, financiers, recruiters, high- profile clients abroad, institutions, universities who enabled or participated in Epstein's network.
SIDNER: You were 21 when you met Epstein and you came to New York hoping to be a successful model. And you've said you'd had a complicated relationship with Epstein because he was your abuser, but he was also acting as your mentor at the same time. Give us a sense of what you went through.
PHILLIPS: I believe the majority of survivors feel that way because he wasn't just abusing, he was ultimately the majority of the time helping you. I know a lot of the underage girls, they were helping their families out immensely in many different ways.
And also for the young women in their, you know, 18 to 24 year olds in New York, they were helping out with the career because they were, you know, working on their careers. So that was the way of, you know, abusing them through getting things for them. And so, yes, he was a mentor to me.
And it was -- the whole process is very confusing. But what I will tell you is, I started speaking out in 2019. I've only started unraveling what's part of my past from speaking out to other survivors.
And even just this last week, finding out more information. So it's an ongoing battle for us. And the release of the files helps us complete our stories.
SIDNER: I am wondering what you thought of what former Fox News host, Megyn Kelly said on her podcast about whether Epstein was a true pedophile. Let me let you listen to what was said.
[08:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW: This is this person's view, who was there for a lot of this, but that he was into the barely legal type. Like he liked 15 year old girls.
I don't know what's true about him, but we have yet to see anybody come forward and say, I was a, like a, I was under 10. I was under 14 when I first came within his purview.
Look, it's -- you can say that's a distinction without a difference.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it's not. It's not.
KELLY: I think there is a difference. There's a difference between a 15 year old and a five year old. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: What did you make of her making that distinction here?
PHILLIPS: I don't know how to answer that question. I mean, I can see her point. You know, he wasn't a pedophile in the way that he was abusing prepubescent girls, but he's a pedophile.
And what him and Ghislaine were doing is only interested in bringing in underage girls. So, I mean, it's all pedophilia in a way that he's not a normal man and going after at least 18 years old and older. So I just -- I don't, it's a tough one in a way that I can understand what she's saying, but it just doesn't sound good either.
Because I mean, this is pretty disgusting going after -- I have a 14 year old child. They're children. So, yes, I don't know.
Everything that Jeffrey did was disgusting. Pedophilia, so.
SIDNER: And you've been dealing with the consequences. So all the other survivors have been as well. Lisa Phillips, I do appreciate you taking the time to talk us through it. I know it can be really hard. Appreciate it -- John.
BERMAN: All right, this morning, time lapse images of a huge dust storm in Texas. This, of course, is known as a haboob. It happened very quickly.
The person who took the video said they just stopped recording to go chase lawn furniture.
Starting December 2nd, McDonald's is rolling out a limited time Grinch meal that includes dill pickle "Grinch Salt" McShaker Fries. They may want to shorten that name.
Just an idea. Every box also comes with a pair of Grinch socks in holiday colors.
This morning, a Miss Universe contestant is recovering after falling off the stage in the middle of a competition. It's terrible. Miss Jamaica, Gabrielle Henry, was taken away on a stretcher.
This was during the preliminary evening gown competition. The competition did go on. The winner ended up being 26-year-old Miss Mexico, Fatima Bosch -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Thanks so much, John.
You've probably seen tons of scary movies about exorcisms over the years. The religious practice of expelling evil spirits from people or places.
CNN's David Culver recently found one real life priest who says he's performing more exorcisms today than any time in the past 20 years.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you give me a sense early on 26 years or so ago? What were you seeing as far as the request for exorcisms? And what have you seen since?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What there has been is a surge in requests.
CULVER: How often every week or month back then versus now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say when I began, maybe there were three to five every one to three months. And now I'm going to guess it would be three to five maybe every week.
CULVER: It's I assume nonstop for you then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. I find that Satan is very astute.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: Wow. David joins us now with much more on this. David, this is fascinating.
That man that you spoke with is just one exorcist of several that you spoke to. What are they -- what else did they tell you?
CULVER (on camera): And I will tell you, Kate, I think this is one of these stories that when I first heard about the idea of modern day exorcisms, immediately we go to that Hollywood image and that portrayal. I mean, what we experienced blew all of that away. I mean, this took us into depths of humanity that we really weren't prepared for, quite frankly.
So he is one of several exorcists we spoke with. Some of them are very private, like that individual Catholic priest. Others are extremely public.
They like to be out in front of the cameras. They do things online. They share their exorcisms in live streams even.
And all of them are consistently saying that they have seen a surge in exorcisms. Now we have to be careful because there aren't recorded and documented databases with the number of exorcisms, or as some call them, deliverances, essentially the same thing, casting out demons. There's no database that records this, right?
So a lot of this is anecdotal. You're relying on these individuals who are carrying these out. Nonetheless, they're seeing more and more.
