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Luigi Mangione Fights To Block Evidence In CEO Murder Case; Accused National Guard Shooter Makes First Court Appearance From Hospital; Trump Holds Cabinet Meeting Amid Questions Over Boat Strikes; Trump Pardons Former Honduran President, Juan Orlando Hernandez. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 02, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He has to be in custody. I think even though the officer said in one of his testimony that he was not -- he did not tell him he was not free to leave. The reality is he was not going anywhere. So for our purposes, he was in custody. Then the question is, was it an interrogation? He could say, what -- how is the weather outside? And if Mangione starts giving some information, that's not an interrogation.

I think where they crossed the line may be that when they said, have you been in New York? Why was that question asked if not to future the investigation? And I think that that was a mistake and may well be a Miranda violation. But let's not forget, the, sanction for Miranda violation just means they don't get that statement. The arrest doesn't go away, other statements don't go away, other evidence does not go away. But his answer, yes or no, it was no, which now will be shown as a falsity, that may not ever get in front of the jury if it's determined to be Miranda violation.

But Miranda sanctions, the relief for a Miranda violation is quite specific to the statements that you should not have gotten but for your failure to Mirandize.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": And give us some context around how -- what could potentially happen with the evidence in this state case can have an impact on the federal case. Is it -- is there a chance that this does change the shape of the federal case?

O'MARA: Yes, it very well may because even though the federal court will have their own opportunity to review evidence, they quite honestly can come up with different decisions based upon federal law versus state law. I'll give you an example. In Pennsylvania, back in 2020, a case called Lutz came out and limited the law enforcement ability to search items like a car or maybe a backpack. That doesn't exist in federal law. So the federal judge may have a more open policy during allowing that evidence.

And yes, it could have an effect because if a state judge says no, this is not going anywhere near a courtroom. It is such a Miranda violation or such a Fourth Amendment violation, that may carry a weight in the federal court. So yes, I'm certain that the federal prosecutors are looking very closely at what this state judge is going to do to their case.

SANCHEZ: Mark O'Mara, appreciate the analysis. Thanks so much.

O'MARA: Great to be here.

SANCHEZ: So we are monitoring the final White House cabinet meeting of the year. We'll see if and when President Trump takes questions. You see HHS Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. speaking there. Stay tuned to CNN for the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:36:43]

SANCHEZ: Breaking news to CNN, the suspect in the shooting of two National Guard members in Washington, D.C. last week is now making his first court appearance. CNN's Evan Perez is following the story for us. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, that hearing is now ongoing right now. All we see is Rahmanullah Lakanwal appearing in a hospital bed. He hasn't really -- there hasn't been any response yet from him. But that hearing is just now getting underway. We know that this is his first real court appearance, it being handled via remote because he's still in the hospital recovering from gunshot wounds from that shooting the day before Thanksgiving.

What we know is that the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, Jeanine Pirro has said that he is going to face murder -- first degree murder charges for that one National Guard member who was killed in the shooting. There's still a second National Guard member who is recovering in the hospital. So depending on how that person's recovery goes on, there could be additional charges that could be brought. And again, this is the first court appearance or the first court hearing that this suspect is now facing.

We expect that it's simply a pretty perfunctory hearing where the judge will advise him of the pending charges that they have right now and will hold him at least until the next court hearing. So, we are anticipating to see how this goes in the next few minutes, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Evan Perez, please keep us posted. Thank you so much. Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Happening now, President Trump convening top officials at the White House as tensions with Venezuela threatens to boil over. This cabinet meeting is underway just hours after the president met with national security officials about next steps for the South American nation. And also, after the White House admitted to striking an alleged drug boat twice in September, killing remaining survivors. It was a decision that some lawmakers say could be a war crime.

We're joined now by Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden of Wisconsin. He's also a retired Navy SEAL. Sir, thank you so much for being with us. What do you want to learn about this second strike? REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN, (R-WI) ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I appreciate you having me.

KEILAR: Yeah. Thank you so much for being with us. What do you want to learn about this second strike?

VAN ORDEN: Well, let me put this in a way that people who have not been to war can kind of visualize it better. If you're on the battlefield and there's an enemy tank and you launch a javelin missile, for instance, and it doesn't completely destroy the tank, you'll launch another one regardless if there are tank crewmen hanging out of the hatch. So as long as there was a fraction of that boat floating, it was a viable military target.

KEILAR: So, we've heard from others who talk about the fact that the boat was disabled or that these individuals were no longer in the fight that, that makes it clear that perhaps there shouldn't have been a second strike. I want to play something that the president said about what he would've done as it pertained to a second strike. Here's President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We'll look into it. But no, I wouldn't have wanted that, not a second strike. The first strike was very lethal. It was fine.

[13:40:00]

And if there were two people around, but Pete said that didn't happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Hearing that from the president, does that give you pause? He said he wouldn't have done a second strike.

VAN ORDEN: No, not at all. Absolutely not. As long as there's part of that vessel, it was a viable, lawfully targeted enemy combatant vessel. That is a terrorist -- those folks have been designated as terrorists by the State Department and they are viable targets. And let's remember, these drug kingpins are responsible for killing more Americans than the combined casualties of all of the wars we've had as a nation. About 50,000 American citizens are dying every year from fentanyl overdose.

And so, those are the people that I think about, the mothers and the fathers and the cousins and the sisters and the brothers that have all had to go to funerals because of the scourge of illicit drugs. And so, I stand firmly behind President Donald Trump and the leadership that he's exhibited and also the authority that he has delegated to Secretary Pete Hegseth.

KEILAR: Yeah, it's horrific, the people who have died. And I think everyone knows someone or knows someone who has someone in their family who's been impacted by that. The president also pardoned the former or actually, if you can hold on, Congressman, Secretary Rubio is speaking now in the cabinet room. Let's listen.

MARCO RUBIO, (R) UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: -- American and American workers and American farmers have been ripped off. They've been ripped off. And what he's saying is, we want to have a trade with the world, but it has to be a trade in which American businesses and American workers and the products they make, and what American farmers grow and produce has a fair shot to be sold around the world. On issue after issue, that's been the case.

You talk about foreign aid reforms. This is not our money; this is taxpayer money. When the president says is we're going to do foreign aid, but we're going to do foreign aid for countries that are aligned with the United States and in a way that doesn't waste the taxpayer's money. Mr. President, you deserve tremendous credit for that. Many of us, the vice president, by the way, I want to acknowledge, has played an extraordinary role in our foreign policy. And he too has been a witness to all of this as it's been occurring. And he's been a big part of it as well.

You talk about NATO, president is not against NATO. He went to NATO and basically said, look, you guys, we're paying all the money. And he got them to do the 5 percent commitment, which everybody said was never going to happen. It was impossible. Everything this president does is driven by the American people, whether you -- you don't have to agree with the actual move, but understand the motivation. The motivation is always you, the American people, and what's good for you, for your family, for the country, and for our economy.

But the president is also committed to peace in a way that all of us have seen. He achieved in Gaza and he does it, by the way, not just because he hates war and he thinks wars are a waste of money and lives, but because he's the only leader in the world that can. No other leader in the world could have pulled off what happened in Gaza. And I can tell you, I can't get into the details, the vice President knows what I'm talking about. That deal doesn't happen without the president's direct interaction with the leaders that were involved in this decision making.

And everyone said that deal couldn't hold. And then the president shepherded through the United Nations of all places to get a global coalition of countries to line up behind the peace deal, behind the board of peace. And it's still -- every day is a challenge, but it's been driven personally by the president. It's the reason why we're involved in this whole Ukraine-Russia conflict. That's not our war. It's not the president's war. This war started -- it never would've happened if he'd been president.

But this war's going on and the president is trying to end it, not because -- listen, we got a million things to focus on in the world as a country, but he's the only leader in the world that can help end it. And that's why we're -- that's why even as we speak to you now, Steve Witkoff is in Moscow, trying to find a way to end this war, to save lives of 8,000 to 9,000 people, Mr. President, as you all know are dying every week. More people are dying a week in that war than have died in the entirety of the U.S.' involvement in Afghanistan or Iraq, just think about that, how bloody and destructive it is. The president has taken on this issue of Sudan personally, not send out deputies to do it, again, far away from the United States because he's the only leader in the world that could bring it about to an end. Not to mention all the other peace deals, very dangerous ones like India and Pakistan or Cambodia and Thailand and so on. On all these things, Mr. President, I think you deserve tremendous credit for the transformational aspect of our foreign policy. For the first time in probably four decades, the American foreign policy is driven by what is good for America and Americans, whether it makes it safer and stronger and more prosperous. If it is, he's for it. If it doesn't, he's against it. And that sort of clarity is transformational.

I close with this and I know I'm last, so I wanted to be fast, but there was a lot to cover. I do want to say this is the most wonderful magical time of the year. By that, of course, I'm referring to the college football playoffs, and I just want to say this as a point of personal privilege. If -- and I'm a Florida Gator, but if the University of Miami gets screwed out of the football playoffs after going 10-2 and beating Notre Dame, the whole thing should be scrapped. And you're going to have to take over next, Mr. President.

TRUMP: Thanks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.

(LAUGH)

TRUMP: Thank you all very much. That's terrific. I hope it wasn't too long, but it was very concise and we've done a lot.

[13:45:00]

This group has done a lot, as everyone, everybody at this table has done --

KEILAR: All right. We are listening to this cabinet meeting and we'll be following to see if there are any questions that we need to dip into. I want to go back now to Congressman Derrick Van Orden. And we were just talking about these boat strikes, specifically this boat strike of September 2nd in the Caribbean. I do want to ask you, because you're talking about, and I've heard you talk about this, that this comes down to these deaths of so many tens of thousands of Americans. And it truly is an epidemic in our country.

So, can you square for us, as people are questioning the objectives of what the administration is doing here? The president pardoned the former Honduran president who was convicted of helping traffic hundreds of thousands of kilos of cocaine toward the U.S. for millions of dollars in bribes. He was going through a 45-year sentence, had just begun it, and the president pardoned him last night. Can you square that for us? As you were talking about this objective of fighting this scourge of drugs.

VAN ORDEN: Well, honestly, I don't know the specific details of this case and what happened, but I'm a firm believer, if you are selling drugs or smuggling drugs into the United States, you need to pay a very, very heavy price. And my primary concern, and I will never apologize for it, is protecting American citizens. And I know that Donald Trump is doing that too. But in fact, no, I can't, because I don't know the details.

VAN ORDEN: OK. I would love to speak with you about the details. And there aren't too many of them, but I understand. I'm being told that you have to go vote, so I want to let you go.

VAN ORDEN: That's correct, ma'am.

KEILAR: Take care of that. Unfortunately, that's sort of gotten in the way of our conversation here. But Congressman Van Orden, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it.

VAN ORDEN: You're welcome, ma'am. You have a wonderful day and God bless you and your viewers.

KEILAR: You too. All right, let's go back now to the White House.

TRUMP: -- And they didn't end it when -- look, they lost in a landslide. We won every swing state. We won the popular vote; we won everything. You take a look at districts, it was 2,750 to 525, because that was an affordability problem. We brought it down. Look at energy. Look at the gasoline price. That's like the simplest and it's the biggest because if energy comes down, everything comes down. That's the way it works.

We are going to be at $2.50. You said $1.99 in some places in the country, right? You said it. I didn't say it. And they won't check you; they'll check me So, I'd like to use your number $1.99 a gallon, unthinkable. If you go back a year and a half ago, it's unthinkable. So now, we are bringing the prices down, way down.

Beef is coming down now. We've done certain magic and beef is coming down. But we inherited horrible prices. We inherited really the worst, again, the worst inflation in history. We inherited that. When I came in, that's what he had. And we fixed inflation and we fixed almost everything. If you want to know the truth, including eight wars. We got one to go, but including eight wars. But when -- they always say, I watched today where they have a race going on right now in Tennessee and this woman goes affordability, affordability. They're the ones that caused the problem. The prices were way high. We're bringing the prices down.

But they're like scam artists. They con -- I call them con men and women. They come out and they say affordability like, oh, I see price. We're going to get prices down still further. But we brought them down from the prices they caused. The reason that they had the highest inflation in the history of our country is because they had the highest prices. But we brought them down and now we have normal inflation. Yeah?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, thank you so much for taking questions with your assembled cabinet. I wanted to clarify something that you had said on Sunday regarding the boat strikes near Venezuela. You had said that you didn't know if the second strike on that one boat had happened, but you wouldn't have wanted it. Now that your administration has acknowledged that it happened, do you support that second strike? And Mr. Secretary, I want to clarify something you had said in an interview back in September, I believe, on Fox News, you said that you had watched that strike live on television in real time. Did you know that there were survivors after the initial strike?

TRUMP: Well, look, all I know is this, every boat that you see get blown up, we save 25,000 on average lives. 25,000 lives. They've been sending enough of this horrible fentanyl and other things like cocaine and other things. But fentanyl right now is the leader of the pack, to kill our entire nation because a little speck of the head of a pin can kill somebody.

[13:50:00]

It is very dangerous stuff. I know so many people where their sons were drug addicts. They had one little sample and they died. They died. They were -- they couldn't believe it. As far as the attack is concerned, I still haven't gotten a lot of information because I rely on Pete. But to me, it was an attack. It wasn't one strike, two strikes, three strikes. Somebody asked me a question about the second strike, I didn't know about the second strike. I didn't know anything about people. I wasn't involved in it.

I knew they took out a boat, but I would say this, they had a strike. I hear the gentleman that was in charge of that is extraordinary. He's an extraordinary person. I'll let Pete speak about him, but Pete was satisfied. Pete didn't know about second attack having to do with two people. And I guess, Pete would have to speak to it. I can say this. I want those boats taken out. And if we have to, we'll attack on land also, just like we attack on sea and there's very little coming in by sea. I think we've knocked out over 90 percent of it. There's very little coming. And I understand that there's very little.

We're saving hundreds of thousands of lives with those pinpoint attacks. It's an amazing thing when you see a boat going along. And a lot of the press would like to say, they're not -- you see the boat, they're not maybe drugs. You see these boats, first of all, who has five engines on the back of a boat going in weird directions and loaded up with lots of white containers. They're (inaudible), they're bags of things. Now, they've done an amazing job. And Pete has done an amazing job. But Pete, you could probably better answer the question.

PETE HEGSETH, (R) UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You're spot on, sir. I think you got to start with the baseline, which Marco laid out, everybody has laid out. You've got 20 million people invading our country over four years. We don't know where they're coming from. That includes Tren de Aragua and cartels and violent criminals. They bring drugs. And you mentioned it, Mr. President, poisoning -- an intentional poisoning of the American people, killing hundreds of thousands of Americans. So the president had the courage to designate these cartels as designated terrorist organizations.

Now, a number of us here served for the military and spent 20 years fighting terrorists like Al-Qaeda and ISIS on the other side of the world. How do you treat Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Do you arrest them and treat them, pat them on the head and say, don't do that again? Or do you end the problem directly by taking a lethal kinetic approach? And that's the way President Trump has authorized the war department to look at these cartels.

And I wish everybody could be in the room watching our professionals, our professionals like Mitch Bradley, Admiral Mitch Bradley, and others at JSOC and SOCOM and other commanders. The deliberative process, the detail, the rigorous, the intel, the legal, the evidence- based way that we're able to, with sources and methods that we can't reveal here, that make sure that every one of those drug boats is tied to a designated terrorist organization. We know who's on it, what they're doing, what they're carrying, all these white bales (ph) are not Christmas gifts from Santa. This is drugs running on four-motor fast boats or submarines that we've also struck. No one's fishing on a submarine.

And I have empowered them to make that call. Now, the first couple of strikes, as you would, as any leader would want, you want to own that responsibility. So I said, I'm going to be the one to make the call after getting all the information and making sure it's the right strike. That was September 2nd. There's a lot of intelligence that goes into that, building that case and understanding that, a lot of people providing information. I watched that first strike live. As you can imagine at the Department of War, we got a lot of things to do.

So I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, where all the sensitive site exploitation digitally occurs. So I moved on to my next meeting. A couple of hours later, I learned that that commander had made the -- which he had the complete authority to do. And by the way, Admiral Bradley made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat. He sunk the boat, sunk the boat and eliminated the threat. And it was the right call. We have his back and the American people are safer because narco terrorists know you can't bring drugs through the water and eventually on land, if necessary --

TRUMP: I have to do it (ph).

HEGSETH: -- to the American people. We will eliminate that threat and we're proud to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you didn't see any survivors, to be clear, after that first strike? You personally.

HEGSETH: I did not personally see survivors. But I stand -- because the thing was on fire, it was exploded and fire and smoke. You can't see anything. You got digital -- this is called the fog of war. This is what you and the press don't understand. You sit in your air conditioned offices or up on Capitol Hill and you nitpick and you plant fake stories in The Washington Post about kill everybody, phrases on anonymous sources, not based in anything, not based in any truth at all.

And then you want to throw out really irresponsible terms about American heroes, about the judgment that they made.

[13:55:00]

I wrote a whole book on this topic because of what politicians and the press does to war fighters. President Trump has empowered commanders, commanders to do what is necessary, which is dark and difficult things in the dead of night on behalf of the American people. We support them and we will stop the poisoning of the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Mr. Secretary, on the second strike, you said it happened more than an hour after the first. Did I hear it correctly?

HEGSETH: I couldn't tell you the exact amount of time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Minutes, you went off the room is what you're saying.

HEGSETH: I already stated my answer quite clearly.

TRUMP: So remember this, we lost last year. I think it was more than that. But people don't like saying it. Because they always said 100,000 -- 115,000, numbers we've been hearing for years. So we lost last year more than 200,000 people, dead people, ruined families beyond the 200,000 and those 200,000, that family will never be the same. But these people have killed over 200,000 people, actually killed over 200,000 people last year. And those numbers are down. Those numbers are down. They're way down. And they're down because we are doing these strikes. And we're going to start doing those strikes on land too.

The land is much easier. It's much easier. And we know the routes they take. We know everything about them. We know where they live. We know where the bad ones live. And we're going to start that very soon too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President? Thank so much Mr. President.

TRUMP: Do you want to know (ph) when we start that. We're going to grab those (ph) things down so low and then you're going to have families be able to live without the fear of their son or daughter just having a pill to have a little fun and ending up dying within a period of 60 seconds. Right? No, we're not going to let that happen. We're not going to let it continue to happen.

What Biden did to this country by allowing all these people, and I call them animals in many cases. I think they're animals to come into our country and destroy our country, and let all those drugs pour in. Let people just walk across the border like it was nothing. You look at them, a lot of them, they say, oh, let's not discriminate. I'm not talking about color. I'm just talking about you looking to the eyes of some of these people. We're smart and you see a killer, come on in, just come on in.

11,888 murderers, many of them committed more than one murder. He allowed them into our country, totally unvetted, totally unchecked. But he also allowed drugs to come in at record numbers, and hundreds of thousands of people a year died. And we are taking those sons of bitches out, you know? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you so much, Mr. President, for taking all the questions. I think this is the most transparent demonstration I've ever seen.

TRUMP: I'm impressed by these people that -- I'll tell you. How strong are you? You've been holding --

(LAUGH)

TRUMP: -- for two hours. There are very few physically -- there are very few people who could do that. I'm very proud of you. I have no idea who you are, but you're strong.

(LAUGH)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you Mr. President. Mr. President, last week, militia groups in Iraq attacked the Kurdistan region gas field, the largest gas field, which even the U.S. companies invested in the energy sector in the Kurdistan region. And the Kurdistan Prime Minister requested the United States to provide them some sorts of means and defense system to defending their civilian infrastructure and U.S. investment in the Kurdistan region. Are you willing to providing them the support? And (inaudible) tomorrow, the United States is going to open and integrate one of --

TRUMP: The latter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, of course.

TRUMP: Is that possible? You have the most gentle, beautiful voice. You're a very gentle person. Go ahead. Just take fewer words and louder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, sure. I'll repeat my first question. Last week, the Iraqi militia shared groups attacked one of the largest gas fields in the Kurdistan region of Iraq, which even the U.S. companies have invested in these gas fields.

TRUMP: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then --

TRUMP: Are you from Iraq?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm from Kurdistan, Iraqi Kurdistan.

TRUMP: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Working for (inaudible) network and the Kurdistan region Prime Minister, he requested the United States to providing them some sorts of defense system to defending these gas fields and U.S. investment in the Kurdistan region. Are you willing to helping them?

TRUMP: Well, we're going to look at it. I heard about it and I'm hearing about it more now, frankly, it wasn't at the top of my list. It's a very unusual question, I think. But I assume you are from the area. And to you, it's a very important question. And to me, it is also because people are being killed. I will say this, Iraq has been much different in terms of us than they were prior to us taking out the nuclear capability of Iran.

Iran has gone down many, many steps in terms of its fear factor. They were the bully of the Middle East and they're really not the bully of the Middle East anymore. And Iraq was being bullied by Iran. We had a president that thought it was brilliant to blow them up and they blew them up. And all of a sudden, instead of having a power that was basically equal to Iran, they had Iran ruling the Middle East for a long period of time.

But Iraq, from the day we hit them with those B-2 bombers and knocked out and obliterated -- because CNN said, well, maybe it wasn't total obliteration.