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ICE Operations Underway in New Orleans and Minnesota; Federal Agents' Aggressive Tactics Nationwide Under Scrutiny; Videos, Photos From Epstein's Private Island Released. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 03, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:33:18]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": So we're learning that new immigration crackdowns are officially underway in New Orleans and in Minneapolis.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Yeah, these are coming as immigration advocates argue that many of the heavy handed tactics used by federal agents cross the line. The administration, however, says the law is clearly on its side. CNN takes a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a citizen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Have you seen videos like this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you're doing is kidnapping. What you're doing is kidnapping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the (expletive) is wrong with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Or this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put the gun down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been seeing them on social media and wondering, are immigration officers really allowed to do this? The people in charge are saying it's all in bounds.

STEPHEN MILLER, UNITED STATES HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR: To all ICE officers, you have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But where's the constitution in all this, especially when it comes to U.S. citizens. That's at the crux of the immigration debate today, and the answer is complicated.

RAFIE SHOUHED, OWNER, VALLEY CAR WASH: Three of them, 200 pound each sitting on me, holding me on the ground like I'm murderer or something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to be placed under arrest. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Here's why federal officials can be so aggressive toward people, including U.S. citizens. And what some folks are trying to do to rein it in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're talking about is the balance between what they're allowed to do and certain inalienable rights that are enshrined in the constitution. Now, pay attention, the word 'reasonable' is going to come up a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The Constitution says authorities must have probable cause for a warrant, which requires actual evidence. But in 1968, the Supreme Court decided in Terry v. Ohio that police could use reasonableness, a lower standard to stop people.

[13:35:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's why reasonable suspicion is what guides immigration officers. And when it comes to use of force, reasonableness plays a pretty key role too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): In 1989, the Supreme Court said in Graham v. Connor, the rule for whether a police officer has used excessive force is to ask, was it objectively reasonable from the perspective of a reasonable officer at that very moment.

DESIMONE: No looking backwards in hindsight and picking it apart, no setting standards beyond what officers think is reasonable. That might have caused the situation in the first place. But in Graham v. Connor, the Supreme Court said we don't want any of that nitpicking. We don't want any of that 20/20 hindsight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the latest Department of Homeland Security use of force guidelines were issued in 2023 and stipulate that immigration authorities are not required to wait for an attack to use force. Plus, if officers think they're in danger, they're under no obligation to meet that expected danger with equal or lesser force. Even if an officer kills someone, they're only obligated to show they had reasonable belief that someone posed an imminent threat.

And there's more. In U.S. Code, there's language that protects agents of the federal government from interference and being impeded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea is quite simple, which means they've got a job to do. You may agree with it; you may disagree with it. We may have different views, but while they're doing their job and acting lawfully, individuals can't get in the way of doing that. The hard question isn't whether that's a law or even whether that law makes sense. But where's the line? What constitutes impeding or opposing as opposed to, for example, protesting or expressing one's distaste for what's happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So on balance, you'd say that the rules as interpreted by courts over the decades and centuries tip towards law enforcement?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, very heavily. We could debate whether that makes sense. I think it's pretty well acknowledged that there's a lot of leeway given to the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So let's sum this up. Between reasonable suspicion to arrest people, the objective reasonableness standard for use of force and the federal law protecting agents, officers have wide discretion and that can be enough to pin you to the ground, put you in a squad car, and bring you to a holding facility.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Just ask Rafie Shouhed, a 79-year-old U.S. citizen who owns a car wash in Van Nuys, California.

SHOUHED: Actually, the whole thing started from here. As I was coming to go toward my office, which is right over here, and the moment I got here, one of those gentlemen, or what can I say, the ICE men, whoever they are, attacked me and throw me on the floor here. Really hit me really hard. Like you'd see it on the football field.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know that he was an immigration authority?

SHOUHED: No. I didn't know. I was just coming to go to my office and I was trying to open the door here and he attacked me. He threw me right on the ground over here. And then he just stepped over me and he went outside. And then I followed him, tried to see what has happened, who they are, what they want. I said, what can I do? Boom, I was gone. That's all it took. That's maybe half a second. What can I? Boom. Three of them were sitting on me and putting my head down. I didn't try to grab him. I didn't try to fight with him. I didn't try to do any -- nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the position of the Immigration Authority, did you pose a threat to them?

SHOUHED: No, sir. When the police comes here, they treat you with respect. They don't just throw you down and take you to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they say anything to you?

SHOUHED: No. No. But when I was over here and they were throwing me down, they were just telling, don't (expletive) with the ice. Don't (expletive) with ICE.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Shouhed was arrested and taken to the Metropolitan Detention Center in downtown Los Angeles. He says authorities verified his citizenship and then held him for around 11 hours before letting him go. In a statement to CNN, DHS wrote "On September 9th, U.S. Border Patrol conducted a targeted immigration enforcement operation in Van Nuys, California that resulted in the arrest of five illegal aliens. The owner of Valley Car Wash, a U.S. citizen, impeded the operation and was arrested for assaulting and impeding a federal officer."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shouhed was never charged.

SHOUHED: They have no right to do that to me. I haven't done anything. I didn't do anything wrong. You come into my property, you come into my home, and just arrest me and take me away. That's not right. I don't think so. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are looking at these images on your surveillance cameras in the hindsight. And we can see, you're an older gentleman, you're a U.S. citizen. We know that now. But in the moment, they didn't know that.

SHOUHED: Well, they should have waited and asked who you are, what you are, what you doing here? You know?

[13:40:00]

I'm here. My name is my paper. This is my ID. I own the place. No, sir. Boom, boom, boom.

JAMES DESIMONE, ATTORNEY FOR RAFIE SHOUHED: Now, the law is clear. If you believe someone is even a suspect of a crime, you cannot just run up to them and tackle them, if you believe that they ought to be arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me push you a little bit on that interaction in the hallway. Because from the surveillance footage that I've seen and that you guys have released, it could be interpreted that Mr. Shouhed is running towards the officer. And that in running towards the officer, that would pose that officer a threat.

DESIMONE: The officer comes into physical contact with him first. This man is armed to the teeth. Mr. Shouhed is not going to attack that person. Officers are trained in de-escalation techniques, to speak to the person, to let them know that they need to give them commands. These ICE agents, DHS agents, Custom and Border Patrol, they're not giving commands to people. They're being brutal first, taking people down and then blaming them for their brutality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (voice-over): To be fair, DHS agents often give commands and orders to protesters and onlookers and agents train in de-escalation techniques. But use of force guidelines suggest agents de-escalate situations. Policy does not say they must. Shouhed has filed a claim under the Federal Torts Claim Act, a law that allows individuals to get relief from the federal government after negligent or wrongful acts from its employees.

The federal government has six months to respond. If they deny the claim, Shouhed plans on suing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to remember that President Donald Trump won election promising the biggest deportation effort ever. And it appears the administration is trying to keep that promise as quickly as they can.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Immigration, in the many years that I've covered it, is often a numbers game. Now, the White House has imposed a goal of 3,000 arrests a day. In my time covering this, I have never seen that type of quota imposed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much pressure is being put on agencies and individual agents to meet these quotas?

ALVAREZ: Massive. I really don't think that I can overstate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, connect the dots for me on that, because if there's quotas and there's more pressure on these agents to make more arrests, how does that make them more aggressive or use more aggressive tactics?

ALVAREZ: Well, a big part of any law enforcement sort of thinking is discretion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And different agencies, are they known to use their discretion differently?

ALVAREZ: Yes. Essentially, what they're doing is taking veterans of ICE and placing them elsewhere and putting Border Patrol at the lead of those offices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tear gassing all of you (ph) park.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So Border Patrol who oftentimes have a lower bar for how and when they can approach and arrest a person, they're getting put in charge more?

PRISCILLA: Yes, Bovino is a Border Patrol Agent. The White House love what they're seeing and the work that he's doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): She's talking about Gregory Bovino, the Border Patrol leader who said this to CNN.

GREGORY BOVINO, THE BORDER PATROL LEADER: When you see a Border Patrol agent, perhaps you look scared, perhaps your demeanor changes, perhaps you're gripping the steering wheel so tightly that I can see the whites of your knuckles. There's a myriad of factors that we would look at to develop articulable facts for reasonable suspicion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): His agents have been at the forefront of immigration enforcement pushes in U.S. cities like Charlotte, North Carolina.

PRISCILLA: I anticipate that we'll see much more litigation moving forward as this crackdown continues and as the White House gives a stamp of approval of the way that the agents are conducting themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): While the balance of constitutional rights and what federal immigration authorities can do continues to tilt, the White House is saying it's not about to stop anytime soon.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, I think they haven't gone far enough because we've been held back by the judges, by the liberal judges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): And earlier this year, the administration shuttered three DHS offices that investigate abuses.

PRISCILLA: I have only seen one scenario where we got a statement from the Department of Homeland Security where they appear to take issue with the way that an agent conducted himself. And that was an immigration court situation where an agent tackled a woman in the immigration courtroom hallway.

I think what's critical is what public polling has shown. The polling suggests that there has been some souring among the American public in how federal agents are conducting this mass deportation campaign. That's not to say they don't agree that undocumented immigrants should be deported, but there is some concern that is bubbling up on how they do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): While a majority of Americans still support mass deportations, whether the tactics being used are reasonable is still very much up for debate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: A really eye-opening report.

[13:45:00]

So immigration operation targeting undocumented Somali immigrants in Minnesota is officially underway just one day after President Trump called that community garbage, people who don't work and people who we do not want in our country.

KEILAR: A Minneapolis official, who's also a Somali American, will join us right after this.

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KEILAR: Immigration and Customs Enforcement is launching a new operation targeting undocumented Somali immigrants in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota.

[13:50:00]

President Trump has been singling out Somalis for years. And during a cabinet meeting yesterday, he made a xenophobic attack against Somalis in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't want them in our country, I'll be honest with you. OK? Somebody would say, oh, that's not politically correct. I don't care. I don't want them in our country. Their country is no good for a reason. Their country stinks. We're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country. When they come from hell and they complain and do nothing but bitch, we don't want them in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Minnesota is home to almost 80,000 Somalis and roughly 80 percent live in the Twin Cities. This ICE operation coming after reports by prosecutors of a major fraud investigation involving Somalis that the president has certainly zeroed in on rhetorically, we have Minneapolis City Council Member, Jamal Osman joining us now. He's a Somali refugee whose family moved to the U.S. 26 years ago. Councilman, I saw you there, shaking your head. What's your reaction to what the president said?

JAMAL OSMAN, (D) MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Thank you so much for having me first. My reaction is that it's really shocking, someone who is the leader of the country, United States, speaking to another human being as garbage. No human being as garbage and that kind of language is dangerous. It's not just the politics. It's dangerous. It puts people's lives in danger. And he's othering (ph) us a fellow American. History teaches us that dividing us versus them, that shows that nation is falling.

KEILAR: A federal official tells CNN that a new ICE operation is going to target undocumented Somali immigrants in Minneapolis and St. Paul. Can you talk to us about your concerns and if city leaders have any indication on when exactly this is going to start?

OSMAN: Well, I'll tell you that thousands of residents, many of them U.S. Americans, U.S. citizens are living in real fear because of the comments our president made and also, the threats of ICE being here. ICE is here and they have been here. They start going to the community yesterday. The reports I'm getting with my residents and people, Somali people that live in Minneapolis, is that they have been here early yesterday morning. They start going house to house. And they are not just targeting so-called undocumented immigrants, they are targeting all Somalis.

Somali citizens had been stopped on the street, asked documentation to provide documentation. Let me just educate people, 95 percent of the Somali residents in Minnesota are U.S. citizen. Over 50 percent of those are born here. So, there's a small number that are looking for asylum, that are waiting their asylum court date, and those folks are also in danger. They are the one who has been arrested so far. But the call we're getting right now is that they are on the street. Yesterday actually, saw three vehicles myself on the street, driving around, and terrorizing the community.

KEILAR: Jamal, what the president said about Somalis was shocking. It happened live during our show. Xenophobic, yes. There is this massive fraud scheme in Minnesota, which you're aware of. It's very real. It's appalling where dozens of people have been convicted, many more charged, and the vast majority are members of your state Somali community. The fraud scheme centers around non-profit fleecing of COVID funds that were supposed to feed needy children, among other things.

Your wife founded a non-profit that was forcibly shut down by the state. And in his 2023 civil lawsuit against her non-profit, Minnesota Attorney General, Keith Ellison said that it was created by your wife for the purpose of directing funds to herself, her family members, and her co-conspirators in a scheme that the federal government has described as an egregious plot to steal public funds meant to care for children. According to Ellison's office, your wife's organization ultimately reached a civil settlement. She has not been criminally charged, but what Ellison alleges your wife did and what others are charged with or convicted of related to this massive fraud scheme, has that contributed to making the broader Somali community in Minnesota vulnerable?

[13:55:00]

OSMAN: No, Somali community have shown a growth in this state. They have contributed a lot to the state of Minnesota and the city of Minneapolis. And yes, folks have done horrible things and people have committed crimes, but we should not be painting the entire community in one brush and being singled out of (ph) fellow Americans. There's a justice, there's a process of due process and I believe those folks have been dealt with by the state leaders. And but now, President Donald Trump singling out and attacking one group of people and ICE being on our streets and asking people documentation, it feels like we are in 1930s, 1940s, in Germany. Never thought there will be a time where I will tell my community to carry their passport around because you look like Somali, you might be stopped by ICE.

KEILAR: And that is certainly what a lot of folks are doing. Council Member Jamal Osman, thank you for being with us. We really appreciate your time today and we know that this story will continue and we'll be checking in with you. Thank you.

OSMAN: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Next, some new photos and videos from Jeffrey Epstein's private island have just been released. What they reveal, ahead.

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