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Interview with Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI): Navy Admiral Who Oversaw Double-Tap Boat Strike Briefs Congress; Watchdog Finds Hegseth Signal Chat Risked Endangering Troops; CDC Advisers Set to Vote on Changes to Childhood Vaccines; Ghislaine Maxwell Says She Will Ask Judge to Free Her From Prison. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 04, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DAVIS GOULD, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: ... There were two areas of visible staining that I noted, one being a red brown stain on the front driver side visor, and then there was brown stains noted on the front passenger side visor. On the passenger side of the vehicle on the floor, there were two examination style gloves. Of all the areas I examined, there were five that tested positive for blood screening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So that was his car. Red brown stains in numerous locations, building that case.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Building their case. A lot more to learn. Thank you so much, Jean, and do not miss a moment of this trial. Jean's coverage has been remarkable. Coverage is streaming on CNN All Access on CNN app all the time.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking this morning, a new report on what the Admiral being questioned about possible war crimes plans to say to Congress. Why he says the two survivors of an initial attack were legitimate targets.

We're standing by for Robert Kennedy's hand-picked vaccine advisors to issue new recommendations. We've heard this morning from medical experts who are already alarmed.

And who will emerge victorious at the World Excel Championship? It is admiringly being called the golden age of spreadsheet geekery.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Congress has been demanding answers about that deadly double-tap strike on an alleged drug boat off the coast of Venezuela. Today, it may finally get some answers. The Admiral, the White House says, gave the order for that follow-up strike on the boat with survivors, is set to give a classified briefing on Capitol Hill, and that is what he will tell them. According to the Wall Street Journal, this is the reason he says that the two survivors killed in that second strike were still trying to continue their drug running mission even after the initial attack.

Both President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth have distanced themselves from the follow-up strike, saying they didn't know about it until later. The White House maintains the Admiral had full legal authority to do what he did, but even some lawmakers in the president's own party aren't sure about that.

Also, today, we're expecting to get the unclassified version of a Pentagon watchdog report on Hegseth's use of the messaging app Signal to discuss highly sensitive military plans. As we told you first on CNN, sources say the report found Hegseth messages risked endangering U.S. troops.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Seth Magaziner of Rhode Island. Thank you so much for being here. First to you, what questions do you have that you want answered from Admiral Bradley?

REP. SETH MAGAZINER (D-RI), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Well, first, let me make clear, we need to hear from Pete Hegseth. He has changed his story multiple times. Whether he was in the room, not in the room, where he was, he still has not said. You know, the Secretary of Defense has subjected pretty much everyone who works for him, around him, under him to lie detector tests, but he refuses to come in here and answer questions under oath about what his role is -- was in this strike.

In addition, this is the only one of the boat strikes where the administration has refused to release the video and audio. I have not seen it as a member of Congress, the public hasn't seen it, and it raises questions about what exactly they're hiding. Listen, Pete Hegseff needs to understand that sending in an admiral or other people to take responsibility for his decisions is the coward's way out. And so we need to hear from the secretary directly about where he was, what his role was, and there's also the broader question here of what are we even doing this for?

Understand that the vast majority of illegal drugs that come into the United States do not come from Venezuela. They come through Mexico. They come directly from Colombia. They come from other sources. And, of course, President Trump just pardoned an actual narco-terrorist and the former president of Honduras. This is not about the drugs. This is about oil.

And we need to hear directly from the administration under oath, not just about this strike, which very well could have been a war crime, but also about what the larger goal and the larger strategy is here.

SIDNER: I do want to go back to what we're expecting is going to happen on Capitol Hill today with the Admiral in this -- in this meeting on Capitol Hill. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the reason the Admiral will likely give for the second strike that killed survivors of the first strike, is that they were trying to continue their nefarious work. What do you make of that claim if that is what is told to your colleagues there in Congress?

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MAGAZINER: Well, it's hard to believe, but listen, show us the video. Show us the audio. They have done that not just for members of Congress, but for every other person in the general public, for every other strike. They have not done it for this. So show us the evidence.

And I'll say, I mean, they gave us the classified briefing last week, the administration did, about the boat strikes. They had us all go down to a secure facility where we received classified information, and it was a whole lot of nothing. They haven't even really shown us what the intelligence is that leads them to believe that these boats were carrying drugs.

Maybe some were, maybe some weren't, but we know very little about what the standard is that they are using to determine when it's appropriate to strike or not. So again, yes, this alleged double-tap potential war crime is very serious, but there's a lot of other serious questions around this, including why are we even doing any of this to begin with.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you because you are the second member of Congress that we've spoken to this week that has said they went down to the skiff and they really saw no evidence of drug paraphernalia or, you know, drug traffickers necessarily on those boats.

But I do want to shift to to this the the classified Inspector General's report. CNN's learned that sources telling them that it determined already that due to Pete Hegseth Signal chat, the Secretary of Defense risked compromising sensitive military information which could have endangered American troops and the mission objectives.

We are hearing also from White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, who told CNN that President Trump stands by, Secretary Hegseth, and argued that the IG report proved no classified information was leaked and operational security was not jeopardized. How do you square these two versions of events?

MAGAZINER: Well, clearly the White House is lying. I mean, listen, all of us saw through public reporting what was in those Signal texts, right? The timing, the location, the method of the strikes and having that information accessible potentially to our adversaries could have disrupted the success of the operations but also put American pilots in particular at risk.

The other thing is -- apparently, according to this unclassified inspector general's report, the secretary refused to hand over his phone to investigators. He refused to sit under oath and be interviewed by the investigators. So just like with the boat strike, it raises the question, what is Secretary Hegseth hiding?

And we all know that he is unprepared, unqualified for this very big and important role that he has. But on both Signalgate and now on this potential double-tap boat strike, he is refusing to release key information to investigators, to Congress, and to the public. SIDNER: I do want to move on because you're on the Department of Homeland -- you're on the Homeland Security Committee. I do want to ask you about what we are hearing about new ICE raids that are going to be happening and sort of the ones that have already happened. We heard from the spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security who told our John Berman this about what their focus will be in the latest ice raids.

Basically, Tricia McLaughlin said that it will just be the worst of the worst. What in your experience -- because Rhode Island has seen some of these raids -- is that what the administration is going after mostly?

MAGAZINER: Absolutely not. And they've been lying about this from the beginning. You know, Secretary Noem said the same thing. We're going to go after the worst of the worst during her confirmation hearing a year ago. And that is not what they have done.

They have been going after grandmothers, children. They deported a four-year-old U.S. citizen child with cancer so that he couldn't get his cancer treatment. They are deporting veterans. Legal green card holders who have served this country honorably.

Listen, by the administration's own data, 70 percent of the people that ICE has detained this year were not convicted of any crime. And so, by all means, get rid of the worst of the worst. If someone is here illegally and they've committed a violent crime, by all means, those people should be deported and must be. But what is happening is that Stephen Miller has set an arbitrary quota of the number of immigrants who he wants to see removed from the country.

He does not care whether they are legal immigrants, illegal, whether they are naturalized, whether they've committed crimes or not. So the administration has been totally indiscriminate in going after not just the worst of the worst, which we should be going after, but primarily going after innocent people, including U.S. citizens, including legal green card holders, people who are just trying to work for a living and diverting resources away from other important Homeland Security priorities.

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Listen DHS is a lot more than immigration enforcement. It includes counterterrorism. It includes going after retail theft. They are pulling resources away from all of that to go after gardeners and grandmothers and children and I have no reason to believe that they're going to change course in that approach.

SIDNER: All right congressman Seth Magaziner, thank you so much for taking the time with us this morning. I know there are a lot of questions you want answered today -- Kate

BOLDUAN: The doctor who gave the drugs to Matthew Perry before his overdose and death comes face-to-face now with the actor's family before hearing his prison sentence. The details on that are ahead. Also happening this morning the vaccine schedule for children in the

United States could be on the brink of a major changes as a federal advisory committee is meeting to change guidance on the hepatitis B vaccine -- B vaccine and babies.

A generation under profound strain. That is the takeaway why a new survey out this morning says Americans under 30 are so over stressed.

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BOLDUAN: Happening today, major changes could be coming to recommendations in children's health and how and when kids are vaccinated in the United States. Giving newborns a dose of the hepatitis B vaccine has been the universal guidance since 1991. It's credited with virtually eradicating the disease among children in this country.

Now, HHS Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr.'s handpicked CDC vaccine advisors, they're gathering to meet for two days of meetings to consider whether to push that dose back by months or even years. This move would be the most significant change yet to the childhood vaccine schedule under Secretary Kennedy.

CNN's Meg Tirrell is tracking this one. She's also inside the CDC headquarters in Atlanta where it's all happening. What is expected? What are we going to see today?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate. So the meeting just got underway here in a room behind me and they are scheduled to talk about the hepatitis B vaccine all day today and to take a vote at the end of the day. And we've talked with public health experts and also somebody who has lived with hepatitis B infection about what the consequences of this vote could be.

Take a look.

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TIRELL (voice-over): At 16, John Ellis went to the doctor with severe stomach pain and left with a diagnosis no one expected. Incurable chronic liver disease caused by the hepatitis B virus.

JOHN ELLIS, HEPATITIS B PATIENT: You know, at 16 years old, there was conversations around what it would look like for me to get a liver transplant. To be blunt, I thought I was going to die.

TIRRELL (voice-over): John was born in 1990, one year before the U.S. recommended that all newborns receive the hepatitis B vaccine. So he hadn't been vaccinated by age three or four, the time his doctors think he contracted the virus based on the scars on his liver. John and his family don't know how he was infected.

Hepatitis B is incredibly infectious and people who don't even know they have it can transmit it to babies and young kids. ELLIS: I would much rather vaccinations be available at birth than, you know, to have someone else live the experience that I've lived.

TIRRELL (voice-over): But now some people might. Advisors to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, handpicked this year by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., may recommend delaying the shots by months or years after expressing skepticism of the vaccine in previous meetings.

VICKY PEBSWORTH, CDC VACCINE ADVISER: There are gaps in what we know and understand about the effects of hepatitis B, particularly on very young infants. And I think that the conclusion that we know that it is safe is perhaps premature.

TIRRELL (voice-over): But experts say it has a more than three decade track record of safety and delaying the birth dose could result in an estimated 1,400 or more preventable infections in kids each year. Dr. Anthony Fiori, a former CDC infectious disease specialist, tells CNN there's no rational justification for changing the recommendation.

DR. ANTHONY FIORE, FORMER CDC INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: We've seen tremendous reductions in childhood infections with hepatitis B. This saves lives. We're afraid we're going to move back to the time when children were slipping through.

TIRRELL (voice-over): The virus is strongly linked to liver damage and cancer. John Ellis is now 35. Right now his viral load is low and he's been able to lead a generally healthy life.

He hopes the vaccine that wasn't yet recommended for newborns like him remains available for newborns today.

ELLIS: The perceived fear of the risk of vaccination has outweighed the real fear of the hepatitis B virus.

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TIRRELL (on camera): And Kate, we've seen the voting language that the committee is going to consider today and it would essentially remove that universal recommendation for a birth dose of the hepatitis B vaccine and introduce a lot more variability into the recommendations. And we should say this is just day one of a two-day meeting. Tomorrow, they're going to discuss the entire childhood vaccine schedule -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Big day today for sure. Meg, thank you so much for being there. That is playing out behind her, the meeting underway as we speak. We'll bring you updates as it comes -- John.

BERMAN: All right, House Democrats released never-before-seen photos and videos from the private island that Jeffrey Epstein once owned.

And finally, recognizing important achievement in spreadsheets. The World Excel Championships get underway.

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SIDNER: Some new developments in the Jeffrey Epstein case. We're learning that Epstein's former girlfriend and accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, is planning to ask a judge to release her from prison. She's currently serving a 20-year sentence for her sex trafficking conviction.

The Justice Department has about two weeks left before it must release the Epstein-related documents in its possession, as required by the bill Congress passed and President Trump signed into law.

With me now, CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams. It is good to see you bright and early this morning.

Ghislaine Maxwell is planning to file a pro se habeas petition. What does that mean?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A couple things. So pro se, let's talk a little bit of Latin this morning, Sara. Pro se is when someone represents themselves.

Now, in most circumstances, pro se petitions don't end well. It's very hard to represent yourself in court, particularly when you're talking about a habeas corpus petition. That is to release herself from the terms of her confinement, or saying that her civil rights were violated, or saying that she got ineffective assistance of counsel, that her lawyers did not serve her well.

Those are all complex constitutional questions, and representing yourself isn't a great way to go. But, you know, the court got a letter saying that she's planning on doing that, so we'll see where it goes.

SIDNER: What possible arguments even sort of exist for her at this point?

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I mean, she was convicted of these crimes, and then she was also given sort of a, I don't know, she's put into a nicer, if you can say, prison.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SIDNER: And now she's saying, I should be let out.

WILLIAMS: Yes, so let's go back to the Constitution way back two centuries ago. The big habeas term is the terms of one's confinement, right? It's really hard to say that you're being, you've been given inhumane conditions when you have now been put in a less secure facility.

Another big one is ineffective assistance of counsel. She might be saying, and if you notice, It was her attorney who filed it but said that she would be representing herself. Now, maybe, and this is just maybe, she plans on making an argument that she was not served well by her attorneys earlier in the trial. Therefore, she needs to now file this habeas petition.

Now, those are also really hard to win. You have to prove that there was absolutely no chance. And that your attorney's conduct was so poor that you, you know, need to be let out.

SIDNER: I do want to get to something that the public is seeing, and that is a lot of video that has come from Jeffrey Epstein's island.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SIDNER: And you know, when you're looking at this video, you're seeing sort of the outside, then you see inside where you're seeing, you know, the furniture, you see the beds. It feels a bit creepy, but is there any legal reason that this could be used at any point in time for any more charges?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SIDNER: Or is this just something that you know the public has demanded to see how this investigation went and what was going on? Does this help in any legal way?

WILLIAMS: Sara Sidner, are you asking me if Congress is taking an action that doesn't have a legal impact and is just to whip up the public? Maybe I think you are. It's hard to see how anything legal comes out of it unless you see a defendant or more evidence. But really, this is just good for PR. And also, you're so many years past the statute of limitations for most crimes, it's hard to see any new crime charts.

SIDNER: And to be fair to Congress at this point, you know, people have demanded to see as much evidence as was gathered.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SIDNER: And this is some of it. And we're, of course, expecting a lot more to be released in the next couple of weeks. That is what the bill demands. Elliot, we demand more Elliot. Thank you so much for being here.

WILLIAMS: Take care, Sara.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Border Patrol is now on the ground in New Orleans, the latest target of the president's immigration crackdown and the new move by the city asking residents to report possible abuse and misconduct by federal agents.

And the cost of living is everything to so many Americans right now. How that is showing up in a new way online?

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