Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Sources Say, FBI Makes Arrest in D.C. Pipe-Bombing Investigation; Trump to End Biden-Era Fuel Economy Standards for Cars; Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA) Faces Increasing Anger from House Republicans. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 04, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We do have breaking news. CNN has learned that an arrest has been made in the Washington, D.C., January 6th pipe bomb investigation. You will remember that in the morning of the riots around the Capitol, there were also pipe bombs that were found at both the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee Headquarters. CNN has now learned that an arrest has been made.

Let's get right to CNN's Evan Perez for the latest on this. And what are you learning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. This has been a long running investigation, a five-year investigation that the FBI has focused dozens of agents. They've looked at thousands of tips that have come in video, hundreds of pieces of video. And this morning, the FBI has made an arrest, we're told. The -- we expect to, to see some charges later today. But this is obviously something that has eluded the FBI despite all of their efforts.

Part of the problem has been that you see that some of the grainy video, I think we have some of that that the FBI has released from the placement of that bomb. These bombs were placed outside of the DNC headquarters, outside of the RNC headquarters. These were just a couple blocks from the U.S. Capitol. And when they were discovered, what happened was the police from the Capitol complex rushed over there. And that happened to be just at about the time that some of the crowds of Donald Trump supporters who were outside the Capitol began breaking through some of the cordons to break into that building and attack the Capitol on January 6th.

So, obviously, it's been the source of a lot of conspiracies over the years, but, finally, the FBI believes that they have the person who planted these bombs.

Now, the bombs were viable, according to the FBI. And if they had gone off, they could have harmed someone. And that included Kamala Harris, who was then the vice president and, you know, the -- I'm sorry, she was incoming vice president. And the concern obviously was that she passed about 20 feet away from when one of these bombs was planted near the DNC headquarters.

The FBI has tried everything, from releasing different pieces of video from the alleys and some of the streets, scenes there. You'll see the bomber walking along the streets. He was wearing some very distinctive black and gray Nike Air Max shoes. The FBI even found that there was about 25,000 of those shoes that were sold around the time of the placement of those bombs, and they still could not find this person.

So, we'll expect to hear more from the Justice Department later today, possibly some charges against this person, which we'll explain a little bit about how they went about finally solving this case, and obviously something that the FBI has been very focused, even the new incoming leadership of Kash Patel and Dan Bongino. They brought in a new team, new set of fresh eyes to look at the evidence. And it appears that has brought forward some new clues that helped them solve this case today. John?

BERMAN: Evan, I have to ask, because there've been a lot of conspiracy theories, one way or another, about this investigation.

[08:30:01]

Do you have any information about the identity and possibly, you know, the implications of who this person is at this time?

PEREZ: Well, if it is who we believe it is, it should at least put to bed some of this conspiracy. At least theoretically, it should calm some of those conspiracies. If you remember, certainly on the right wing in -- in right wing social media, there's been a lot of speculation that this perhaps was an inside job. It's a theory that even Dan Bongino, the now deputy director of the FBI, he even mentioned some of this on his podcast saying that it was possibly FBI knew who this bomber was, but wasn't making an arrest because this person was an insider.

Again, no indication that is the case from what we know so far. We don't have an identification of that person yet from the FBI or from the Justice Department. But from everything we know, it seems to indicate that this is not somebody who is an insider. Again, we're waiting to hear more from prosecutors, from the FBI in the coming hours.

BERMAN: Evan Perez, terrific reporting. Obviously, we're standing by for more information. You are working your sources. I'm sure we will hear from you soon.

In the meantime, I'm joined by CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams. What charges, what kind of charges are we talking about here?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right. It's the explosives, John. It would probably be for, well, what's on the table, the creation of an explosive device and manufacturer of an explosive device, perhaps conspiracy to construct some such thing, and also the potential destruction of property.

Now, all of these would be attempts because of the fact that the bomb did not go off, but the individual could be charged for attempted destruction of property.

Now, a lot of this will depend on what the FBI actually has, what do you know? Did he send emails? Did he send texts to sort of indicate what his plans were? But we'll see.

BERMAN: Let me ask kind of an esoteric question here. This happened January 6th. What if this person was at the riots on Capitol Hill on January 6th, for which everyone has now been pardoned?

WILLIAMS: That's one of the many constitutional questions we don't know the answer to. Would this be considered a January 6th-related crime of the sort of, you know, destruction of property at the Capitol or something totally different?

Now, again, that becomes a political question, as much as a legal one. Does the president really wish to say that someone who wanted to bomb both the RNC, or potentially bomb, both the RNC and the DNC ought to be pardoned for that offense? That's an open question.

BERMAN: I will say the fact that we are going to get an announcement of charge, the public announcement indicates that the Justice Department doesn't think so.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BERMAN: Probably?

WILLIAMS: Yes, a good point. Yes.

BERMAN: However, it's something to think about, right? It is something to think about when we still don't know the identity of this person or what they then did later that day.

WILLIAMS: One other big thing, there is no federal domestic terrorism charge. You can't be charged for being a terrorist in the United States.

Now, that could be an enhancement at sentencing if it is determined that this was designed to coerce or intimidate a civilian population or influence government, which kind of seems like it was if you're going after the RNC and the DMC, then that could bump up sentencing of this individual if he or she is convicted quite dramatically.

BERMAN: All right. This is a major development. Obviously, we still got a lot of questions. More information, no doubt will be coming. Our thanks to Evan Perez on the reporting, our thanks to Elliot Williams for helping us maybe understand some of the consequences. As I said, a lot of breaking news.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Major changes could be coming to the auto industry. And President Trump is calling it a reset, announcing his new plan to gut fuel efficiency standards set during the Biden administration. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're officially terminating Joe Biden's ridiculously burdensome, horrible, actually cafe standards that imposed expensive restrictions and all sorts of problems, gave all sorts of problems to automakers.

These policies forced automakers to build cars using expensive technologies that drove up costs, drove up prices and made the car much worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Fuel economy standards were first set in 1975. President Biden proposed increases to vehicle requirements during his term and effort to battle the climate crisis and promote a move more to electric vehicles. Top automakers, like Stellantis and Ford, they're praising Trump's rollback. So, what is the impact going to be here?

CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir is looking into this. What is happening?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Imagine, Kate, if we go back over 100 years ago, just as the Model T was reaching popularity, if William Howard Taft said, no, we're going with the horse, we're sticking with horses and saddles, and (INAUDIBLE) for everybody. This is the latest tug-of-war with Donald Trump when it comes to fossil fuels and the machines that burn them.

What's so interesting, Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, was in the room praising this as meeting the reality of the moment, but the moment is created by Donald Trump by taking away incentives for E.V.s that the rest of the world is moving to.

And let me show you a car --

BOLDUAN: Yes, because isn't the -- I'm sorry, but isn't the reality that the rest of the world is moving to E.V.s? I mean, just look in China what they're doing.

WEIR: Exactly. Let me show you the car Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, drives. Here it is. It's called a Xiamoi. It's made by an electronics maker, a phone company, and he praises this. He says it's an existential threat, not just sedans like this, but look at this. This is the BYD Dolphin, an E.V. car that is getting rave reviews in Europe and the rest of the world that sells for less than $15,000 in Asia, less than $18,000 in Europe.

[08:45:05]

And the fear is if these cars were allowed in the American market, it would kill the big three. In fact, Jim Farley said so. Listen to the CEO of Ford. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM FARLEY, FORD CEO: They have enough capacity in China with the existing factories to serve the entire North America market, put us all out of business. Japan never had that. So, this is a completely different level of risk for our industry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: And, of course, the Trump administration is trying to shut down all things, batteries, all things electric, all things that aren't fossil fuels right now.

BOLDUAN: What it comes down to for -- people care about the environment.

WEIR: Sure.

BOLDUAN: But it also comes down to price for a lot of people in the reality of that today. Between a gas guzzler and an E.V. Where are we?

WEIR: Let's use the Chevy Equinox as an example. The electric version of that car, small, affordable car, $35,000, $5,000 more than the gas version. But when it comes to fuel and maintenance, because electric motors are so much easier to maintain, after 5 years, you've saved about a thousand dollars, after 10 years, $6,000 after 15 years, you've saved $12,000 over time.

You know, humanity, Kate has always moved toward the most efficient machine available at the time. And the rest of the world is doing this. This is all politics coming out of the White House and the president's promises to big fossil fuel companies.

BOLDUAN: And maybe not a surprise that automakers are applauding it.

WEIR: They're going along with the populism of the moment.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Great to see you, Bill.

WEIR: Good to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: That is an important comparison. John, Sarah, who wants it?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I'll take it. Why not? Sure, no problem.

New this morning, President Trump once again downplaying the issue of affordability, repeating his line, that it's a, as he puts it, con job by the Democrats. But a growing number of Trump allies are now urging the Republican Party to sharpen its message on the cost of living heading into the midterm.

CNN Chief Data Analyst Harry Enten, joining me now. Look, ultimately, it's the American public who is going to decide if this is a major issue. What are you learning from some of the numbers you've been looking at as to how people really feel about this? HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: Yes. I mean, look, you can bloviate as much as you want in Washington, D.C., but at the end of the day, it's the American people who make the ultimate decision at the ballot box like they did last month in Virginia, in New Jersey. And this is what it's all about, baby, Google searches for affordability up 110 percent versus a year ago. More folks search for affordability in the last month than at any point since the Great Recession, all the way back in 2009.

This is no con job. This is the American people going online, searching for affordability. It's the American people going to the ballot box, voting on affordability. They think it is an important issue to touch on. Donald Trump might want to make the argument it's a con job, but the American people don't think so.

SIDNER: When it comes to things like high prices, I mean, what is the top issue that Americans say they are facing, bar none?

ENTEN: Yes. You named it. You named it. I mean, ta-dah, it's the cost of living, most important to you right now, 36 percent. What's right behind it? The economy, 20 percent. And then I combined here, healthcare or Medicare and Social Security, right down there, number three, 17 percent. What do these all have in common? It's do, re, mi. It's all about the economy, spending, cost of living, entitlement, all about being able to afford things. That's what we're talking about, Sara Sidner. This is the name of the game. It was the name of the game last month, and it is very likely to be the name of the game come 11 months from now in the election. And it's not the Democrats making up. It's the American people that the Democrats are following.

And if Donald Trump and the Republicans don't start following the American people, well, you get results like you did last month in Virginia and New Jersey, and that is Republicans losing by double digits in races that they thought would be considerably closer, especially in New Jersey.

SIDNER: Look, it was the name of the game in the presidential race, right?

ENTEN: Yes, Sara.

SIDNER: I mean, I had to bring that up. I mean, that is part of this.

So, when you look at this, what is sort of there -- there are lots of things. People -- back then, it was eggs, it was groceries, and people were really frustrated. But there is so much more to what the cost of living is and how it affects us.

ENTEN: That's exactly right. You know, we think of cost of living, we think of groceries, but it's also about housing, affordable housing. We saw that last month in the New York City mayoral election, and it was something that we saw in the 2024 presidential election as well. Good, affordable housing, satisfied with access to it.

You know, you look back a decade ago, it was 69 percent, 59 percent, we're going down the slide here in 2019. Look at where we were last year when Donald Trump won another term, all the way down to 36 percent. That's a 33-point drop in just a decade of time. Affordable housing is such a key component to this. It is such a key component. And Donald Trump won on affordability, even if he didn't use that word.

[08:50:02]

He won on affordability. He won on the cost of living in 2024, and he has completely lost the plot. And it's not just about groceries, it is also about people putting a roofs over their heads, and that is going to be a big issue, in my mind, going in to 2026, because it was a big issue in Tennessee 7 as well. It's going to be a very big issue when all of a sudden you see falls like this from 69 to 36, that is a siren. That is a flashing red siren. If the politicians don't follow it, they're going to be in big trouble with the American people.

SIDNER: It's a big deal partly too, because this is the biggest bill that most people have, either their rent or their mortgage. That is the highest thing that they pay, never mind the groceries and everything else.

Harry Enten, it is a pleasure to see you this morning. Thank you for bringing us that. John?

BERMAN: All right. This morning, there appear to be some growing rifts inside the Republican Conference in the House of Representatives. House Speaker Mike Johnson is facing growing anger, very public anger from with his own party, including from a number of Republican women. The latest is Congresswoman and Candidate for New York Governor Elise Stefanik, who told The Wall Street Journal, quote, he certainly wouldn't have the votes to be speaker if there was a roll call vote tomorrow. I believe that the majority of Republicans would vote for new leadership. It's that widespread.

With us now, Ken Barkoff, the former press secretary to then-Vice President Joe Biden and Maura Gillespie, the former press adviser to then-House Speaker John Boehner.

First, let me answer a question from both of you. That's every morning from Harry Enten. That's not coffee. That's just the way he is. So, that's --

KENDRA BARKOFF, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO THEN-V.P. JOE BIDEN: Enjoyable. It's enjoyable.

BERMAN: Maura, you worked for John Boehner, you know, you're a creature of the House. Elise Stefanik did this on the record to The Wall Street Journal. What does it tell you that people are taking these very public swipes at Speaker Johnson?

MAURA GILLESPIE, FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL, BLUESTACK STRATEGIES: She knows what she's doing, but it also unfortunately tells me that member services in the speaker's office is lacking. They're not doing their job because this needs to be handled in-house. I think that, you know, when there are grumbles between the conference that needs to be handled internally. It's always a bad decision when you see it come out publicly like this.

That's calculated, I think, as well. Elise Stefanik knows what she's doing. She's running for New York mayor, as you mentioned.

BERMAN: New York governor, yes.

GILLESPIE: Governor. And she's -- you know, she's trying to kind of separate herself from the pack, because right now people are frustrated with Speaker Johnson. That's not a secret. American people are also looking for somebody else to blame because those who voted for Donald Trump, they don't want to blame Donald Trump. And you're hearing that from members. They don't want to blame Donald Trump because they need his voters. So, they're going to go after Mike Johnson.

BERMAN: I mean, but in New York, does it help her? Is she trying to say, I stood up to Leader Johnson? Because she's sort of positioning herself almost to the right of him a little bit? Does that help in New York? I can't tell.

GILLESPIE: If she's banking on those voters, again, the Trump voters, that's how she's going to play it. I do think that's the play you're going to see from other members as well who are looking for a way out, a way off the ramp essentially, and that's the avenue she's chosen.

BERMAN: Ken, let me read another quote, again, on the record to The Wall Street Journal. It's all bubbling over, Elise Stefanik says, whereas Kevin McCarthy was a political animal, Mike Johnson is a political novice, and, boy, does it show with the House of Republicans underperforming for the first time in the Trump era.

I've covered politics for a long time. You're just not used to seeing stuff like this.

BARKOFF: No, you're not used to seeing stuff like this, but it has shown you that it is, the house is ungovernable. It's a big word to use, but it is -- they -- she's clearly frustrated. She wanted the House to come back in session during the shutdown. There's an affordability argument here that everybody is making except for Donald Trump who thinks it's a con job, and I hope he says that from now until eternity next election, because there is a real problem. We just saw it with Harry. Prices are not going down. They're up. And she is starting to read the writing on the walls. You said she's not the first person to come out and speak about the problems that you're seeing in the House of Representatives. It's a big issue that she went to The Wall Street Journal for the Republican Party, but I love it.

GILLESPIE: I think it's also important to remember that she's also pretty angry at leadership given the fact that she no longer has her conference position because she's supposed to be ambassador to the United Nations. That didn't pan out. And she's increasingly frustrated by the lack of a role she has, and she's been trying to carve something out for herself and she hasn't been able to do it. And with her running to be governor, this is the way she's carving out a spot for herself to get back in the limelight. BERMAN: So, it's not just Elise Stefanik either. We now have Nancy Mace, member from South Carolina who is running for governor in that state. This is what Axios says. Already forgoing a reelection bid to run for governor, plans to speak with Marjorie Taylor Greene next week, sources familiar with the matter told Axios, Mace wants to pick her brain about the B.S. that is the House, the sources said, including members being taken for granted, the need to use discharge petitions, blah, blah, blah. But the implication here is that Marjorie Taylor Greene, and now she's resigning, and maybe Nancy Mace is considering resigning midterm. I mean, is this going to be something we see?

BARKOFF: I think there's just a lot of anger amongst the Republican Party. I think that there's a lot of infighting. Clearly, Marjorie Taylor Greene is frustrated and angry and I think she's sad, frankly, that she had to -- is not going to be able to do what she came to Congress to do, which is cut these prices down, give Americans health insurance, do all the things that she came to do to govern.

[08:55:05]

And, clearly, Republicans aren't governing. You have control in the House. You have control in the Senate. Laws are not being passed in the way that I think people come to expect as we've seen in the past.

BERMAN: You know, Jake Sherman reported that more Republicans are grumbling a Punchbowl and said there may be actual more resignations there. I think a lot of people scoffed to the notion there could ever be enough resignations for Republicans to lose their majority, but is that possibility growing?

GILLESPIE: I've heard of a couple members aside from just Nancy Mace, who have been thinking about it, because they are frustrated. And to your point about being not able to govern, when you give up all your power to the president and you give your gavel essentially to President Trump, this is -- again, it comes back to Mike Johnson and his inability to lead.

BERMAN: Maura Gillespie, Barkoff, thank you -- sorry, Kendra Barkoff, brain freeze, great to see you both. Thank you.

BARKOFF: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate?

BOLDUAN: This morning, the Somali community is on edge as federal immigration agents are beginning a new operation in Minneapolis and St. Paul. The Twin Cities are home to the nation's biggest population of people of Somali descent, a community that the president has repeatedly slammed, even calling them garbage.

President Trump also accused Somali Americans this week of destroying the country yesterday, stepping up that attack, and calling Minneapolis a hellhole. The city's mayor responded to the president on CNN last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D-MINNEAPOLIS, MN): Come out to Minneapolis. What you won't find is a hellhole but a beautiful city. It is a city in a park. You won't find a community that is tearing down Minneapolis in our Somali Americans, you will find a group of people that is uplifting Minneapolis and is proud to be here. They are proud to call this extraordinary place home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now for the latest on what is happening on the ground is the Democratic lieutenant governor of Minnesota, Peggy Flanagan. Thank you so much for coming in.

From what we have seen so far, there are no signs of large scale arrests and operations around the Twin Cities in this new operation. Do you know what the roughly 100 federal agents are doing in your state right now?

LT. GOV. PEGGY FLANAGAN (D-MN): Well, what I can tell you is they're certainly not letting us know their plans. But what we do see is that they're coming in quickly scooping people up. We're hearing reports of that from folks on the ground.

But, really, what this is all about is striking fear into the hearts of Minnesotans. I just find it completely abhorrent the comments that came from President Trump out of the cabinet meeting the other day and just yesterday, just the vile, dehumanizing things that he had to say about our neighbors, about Minnesotans.

And, listen, we've heard Donald Trump say a lot of nasty, terrible things over the years, but this felt different. And it feels like a real attack on the State of Minnesota as a whole. And people who make Minnesota Minnesota.

BOLDUAN: You say that this is about -- this isn't about actual immigration enforcement in what we're seeing, but I want to compare it to what we're seeing in other cities around the country. You have operations unfolding in multiple states, multiple cities, an operation handled by Border Patrol unfolding in New Orleans, in the area right now, but in your state it's ICE agents. And when you think about it, the pool of people that could be arrested is relatively small for what they're targeting as the vast majority of Somalis in Minnesota have legal status in the United States. So, what do you think the operation is really going to do in the end?

FLANAGAN: Well, I think, you know, they continue to say this is about safety. But what you just said is absolutely right. The overwhelming majority of Somalis in Minnesota are citizens and are here legally. So, when you talk about safety and yet are kind of coming into communities willy-nilly, we know that the Trump administration has actually removed public safety resources from Minnesota. I think they're telling on themselves like this is about division, it's about stoking fear.

And, ultimately, I think it's about distraction from the failed record of Donald Trump. People are deeply concerned right now about the cost of living. He doesn't want to talk about that. He wants to distract us. The conversation has started about war crimes this week. Oh, let's find an entire group of people to demonize. This is, you know, the -- his sort of playbook, and it's making us all less safe.

And, ultimately, I want my neighbors to feel like they can call the police if they see something happening, that if my house is on fire, they feel like they can reach out to first responders.

[09:00:00]

People are afraid right now, and it's putting us all at risk.

And so, you know, this is just about making people afraid of folks who are, you know, healthcare professionals, our teachers, our congresswomen, our mayors our neighbors, and it's disgusting.

BOLDUAN: We'll see what happens. As you said, they're not communicating with state officials on what the operations are going to look like.

Lieutenant Governor, thank you for coming in. I appreciate your time.