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Questions Grow About Boat Strikes; Major Vaccination Change; Trump Attends World Cup Draw. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 05, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Soccer, statesmanship and stars. President Trump taking center stage at the FIFA World Cup draw as the world watches.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus: a major court appearance. The suspected D.C. pipe bomber has a hearing this hour, as sources tell CNN he has been speaking with investigators,even potentially revealing a motive.

And it's a big change that health experts warn could have tragic consequences, RFK Jr.'s handpicked vaccine advisory panel voting to abandon universal hepatitis B vaccinations for newborns.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Flattery, fanfare and for President Trump a Peace Prize that he has been yearning for courtesy of FIFA.

Right now, the world's most popular sport is taking Washington by storm, possibly billions of people tuning in, as the 2026 World Cup draw puts President Trump in the spotlight as he just moments ago received an award that FIFA created just a few weeks ago after the president did not win this year's Nobel Peace Prize.

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GIANNI INFANTINO, PRESIDENT, FIFA: And you definitely deserve the first FIFA Peace Prize for your action, for what you have obtained in your way, but you obtained it in an incredible way.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is truly one of the great honors of my life. The world is a safer place now. The United States one year ago was not doing too well, and now I have to say we're the hottest country anywhere in the world. And we're going to keep it that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Of course, next summer the U.S., Mexico and Canada are co- hosting an event that 16 cities across the continent have long been preparing for, including 11 in the United States.

Moments ago, President Trump, Mexico's president and Canada's prime minister kicked off the draw.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny and Jim Sciutto are joining us now.

Jeff, the president there relishing the moment. This is significant for Trump on the world stage.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, and literally standing on stage at the Kennedy Center, which he has taken over, basking in the glow of an award that we have never heard of, an award that did not exist until at this moment.

But, look, seeing him walk into the Kennedy Center today on the red carpet, he was stopping at reporters from around the world, saying niceties, that he's not really talking of many specifics or making news.

But this is an event that the U.S. president maybe wouldn't normally attend, certainly at this length, but he is very proud of the fact that the U.S. is one of the host countries, obviously North America hosting this.

But there's also been some questions, some deep, substantive questions about immigration, the activities of his administration, what impact that is going to have. And he was actually asked about the crime and immigration impacts in some of the U.S. cities and if it would be a problem or not. And this is what he said.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't want to do that. But I will tell you, if they do have a problem by the time we get there, we will take care of that problem. We can solve that problem. I have proven that in D.C. and everywhere else we went.

So we will take care of that very easily. So, if they have a problem, hopefully, they will let us know that, and we will solve any problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: And that, of course, was the question of if he would change any of the host cities because of immigration issues or crime issues. He said that he would not. All 11 cities are slated to host it.

But there are many, many big questions about -- the world of soccer is a very multicultural world, and it really is drawing into some sharp relief as he's getting this Peace Prize. He's threatening war with Venezuela and launching some very aggressive immigration enforcement on some U.S. citizens and some other migrants here to the U.S.

[13:05:10] So quite a split screen here, putting everything into sort of focus.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's an example of -- the pomp and circumstance, as we know, is enormously important to him. Kennedy Center, red carpet, a made-up Peace Prize, let's be frank, didn't exist before.

And it contrasts with the substance of his quite consequential moves, I mean, one being immigration, questions about who's welcome in this country and who's not, as you have an event that is designed to welcome people into your country, right? It is the World Cup.

But he also is currently in a trade war that he started with America's two closest allies, its neighbors, Mexico and Canada, ones that he is inflicting great economic damage on their countries as a tool of leverage, right?

I mean, that's certainly the way the Canadians and the Mexicans see it. So that contrast, with whatever you say about the tournament, et cetera, is quite severe and quite consequential. And, again, on the Peace Prize thing, so he has a medal, but he currently has more than a fifth of America's military might in the Caribbean, threatening at least military action, in effect to start another war, while he is claiming to have ended -- is the latest count eight?

Even though we have, of course, fact-checked that. While he's claiming to have ended others, he's at least threatening to begin another.

KEILAR: And when you look at the travel ban that his administration instituted in June, a travel ban on citizens from 12 countries, including Iran, the list also included Haiti, which qualified last week for the World Cup.

Iran's decided to boycott the 2026 World Cup draw in Washington, D.C. What impact do you think the travel ban could be having on the matches?

SCIUTTO: Well, for one, it might not allow people to come see games, right? It might be as simple as an immigration question, can they get visas to come in? There's also the -- people have agency in these decisions as well.

It cost a lot of money to buy tickets. I have looked at some of them myself. But I don't have to travel into the country to get to some of these games. Travel costs money. Are people going to want to do that? We know that countries such as Canada, tourism has dropped off significantly in this country because of the relationship with the U.S.

So that is very much an open question. And at the same time, you have a president who continues to dismiss entire categories of people as garbage, right? I know Somalia is, of course, not competing in this Olympics, but they're not the only ones who have been the targets of that kind of language and policy over the course of many years.

ZELENY: I mean, even though President Trump is at the center of this today, it's hard to imagine he will be at the center of the World Cup. There aren't many things bigger than him, but the World Cup is actually bigger than him, I think.

SCIUTTO: Good point.

ZELENY: So I do believe that the reality here of his immigration policies will be front center by next summer. The games don't start until June.

But also, consequently, this afternoon, he's likely scheduled to meet with the Mexican president and the Canadian prime minister, who are in Washington. It would be his first face-to-face meeting with Claudia Sheinbaum of Mexico, so many, many substantive issues outside of soccer to talk about.

SANCHEZ: As he's floated the idea of letting the USMCA expire next year.

ZELENY: Right.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SANCHEZ: So we will see if that forms any part of the discussion.

Jeff Zeleny, Jim Sciutto, thank you both so much.

SCIUTTO: Thanks.

ZELENY: Sure.

SANCHEZ: We're also following breaking news in the D.C. pipe bomber case, the man accused of being behind the attempted attack appearing in federal court right now.

KEILAR: The FBI says 30-year-old Brian Cole Jr. has been talking to investigators at length. And sources say that, during these conversations, Cole told agents he believed the 2020 election was stolen. Cameras are not allowed in federal court, though we will provide updates as we get them. We have reporters there in the courtroom.

And still to come: RFK Jr.'s handpicked vaccine advisory panel voting to abandon universal hepatitis B vaccinations for newborns. What this means for parents, including those who want to vaccinate their kids.

Plus, the military official who oversaw a controversial second strike against an alleged drug boat in September is giving his account of the events, and it does differ from other defense officials' accounts. We will have some new details about yesterday's classified briefings on the Hill.

SANCHEZ: And later: It's a case that's captured national attention. We're following all the chilling twists and morbid turns in the Brian Walshe murder trial.

That and much more coming your way on CNN NEWS CENTRAL. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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SANCHEZ: Breaking news: a controversial change at the CDC, the agency's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices voting to abandon universal hepatitis B vaccine recommendations for newborns.

The panel, which was handpicked by HHS Secretary and noted vaccine skeptic Robert of Kennedy Jr. approved the measure by an 8-3 vote. One of the no-votes issued this protest. Watch.

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DR. CODY MEISSNER, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: And I will just say, we have heard do no harm is a moral imperative. We are doing harm by changing this wording. And I vote no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Local health departments across the country are now bracing for the impacts, including how this could affect access to vaccines for families who want to immunize their kids.

It's important to point out the hep B shot is a preventative vaccination that's been given to newborns since the early 1990s. A study published by the CDC just last year found the routine shot had prevented more than six million hepatitis B illnesses over the last three decades.

Trusted studies, though, were not the only data presented to the panel ahead of this vote. Several members raised serious concerns about the information they were shown, which included presentations from nonexperts whose own research has been discredited.

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DR. JOSEPH HIBBELN, ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: This is unconscionable. How can we go forward when this is a specific issue that was supposed to be identified? It's unconscionable.

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SANCHEZ: Joining us now is former CDC Director Tom Frieden. He's now the president and CEO of the nonprofit global health organization Resolve to Save Lives.

Sir, thanks so much for being with us.

What do you see as the impact of ACIP effectively abandoning these hepatitis B shots for newborns?

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: This is a big mistake that would endanger American children.

Don't mess with success. The universal recommendation since it's been applied has not resulted in any significant harm to children. It has prevented thousands, maybe millions of children from being infected. And let me be very clear.

Hepatitis B is a serious infection, and it's not only spread from the mother. That's why universal birth dose is the standard of care. This is basically infusing fiction-based, rather than fact-based, recommendations into the protection of our children. It's a big mistake.

And what I hope will happen is that insurers, states, cities, obstetricians, pediatricians will look at this and say, there is no scientific credibility to this recommendation. It's a violation of all of the basic principles of effective protection. Every vaccine is given with informed consent, and let's not mess with success.

Continue universal birth dose, and, frankly, ignore what this handpicked, unscientific group of people who are currently in the ACIP are recommending.

SANCHEZ: So the recommendation focuses on babies born to hep B- negative women, but I wonder, how frequently do mothers not know they're hep B-positive while they're pregnant? Is that something common?

FRIEDEN: There are three big problems with that approach. And, frankly, we tried it. We tried it before 1990. It didn't work then. It won't work now.

The three problems are, first, about one out of six women don't get a hepatitis B test for a variety of reasons. Second, the test is given early in pregnancy. If a woman gets infected later in pregnancy, that child may get a fatal infection.

Third, up to a quarter of kids who are infected with hepatitis B aren't infected by the mother. So you're not going to protect them by only vaccinating the kids of hepatitis B-positive mothers. Hepatitis B is a pretty hardy virus. It can live for up to a week. It's not only spread by needles and sex.

It's also spread by toothbrushes and household contacts. This is a big mistake that would make our kids less safe and less healthy.

SANCHEZ: Doesn't this also impact the supply and coverage for the hep B vaccine?

FRIEDEN: It's not yet clear what exactly is going to happen. When the ACIP recommends something, that means a program called the Vaccines for Children Program must cover it.

That provides about half of all the childhood vaccines in this country. Already, we have all of the major medical groups and insurers in this country saying we're going to ignore what ACIP recommends because it's not based in science. It's not about protecting people, protecting our kids, our seniors and others.

So whether people will have to pay for this, whether it'll be harder to get it, whether the vaccine manufacturers won't make enough for people, that remains to be seen. This was a risky mistake.

SANCHEZ: And it's also safe to assume that this is going to disrupt the regular childhood vaccine schedule.

FRIEDEN: Well, I'm afraid this is just the start, because they are taking a series of measures which are very misguided. They already took one on COVID vaccines. If you're a senior, if you have immunosuppression, if you're pregnant for a young child, COVID vaccine reduces the risk that you will get seriously ill or die.

They have changed that recommendation, and we're already seeing fewer people getting vaccinated against both flu and COVID. We will see more hospitalizations and more deaths. And they have said they're going to look at all childhood vaccines. They're raising unscientific concerns about some components of the vaccines.

This is dangerous. They are playing with fire. They are endangering our children.

SANCHEZ: Dr. Tom Frieden, thanks so much for sharing your perspective.

FRIEDEN: Thank you.

Up next, some brand-new details about that controversial second strike against an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean, including how long the two survivors were floating in the ocean before the follow-up strike that ultimately eliminated them.

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Plus, see the moment that stranded window washers are rescued while dangling some 15 stories up from the ground.

Stay with us.

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KEILAR: The U.S. military has targeted another suspected drug boat, this time in the Eastern Pacific in a strike that killed four.

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This is video here of the attack posted to social media by U.S. Southern Command. And it comes as we're learning new details about that double tap strike, that follow-up strike in the Caribbean back in September that some officials have called a potential war crime.

Our new reporting contradicts the version of the story that defense officials have been telling, that two survivors on that boat were calling for backup after the first strike. CNN has learned that Admiral Mitch Bradley, who oversaw that follow-up strike, told lawmakers during classified briefings that the survivors did not appear to have a radio or other communications devices.

Instead, he says, after consulting with a military lawyer, he ordered the second strike because part of the boat was still afloat with cocaine, and the survivors who had bobbed in the water for 41 minutes could have, in theory, made it to safety and continued their operation.

A source with direct knowledge of the briefing called that rationale "effing insane."

We're joined now by Beth Sanner, a former deputy director of national intelligence and a CNN national security analyst.

What do you make of that rationale that one source is calling effing insane?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think that, if we step back a little bit here, what we're talking about are rules of engagement.

First, concerns about Hegseth ordering this are off the table, right? So now we're talking about whether an admiral who's in charge of an operation is asking for an order to be carried out and whether that is legal, and then we have questions about morality.

And what we don't talk about are questions of effectiveness. What is this for? And when we start really digging into this, Brianna, I think that's when people start feeling uncomfortable. What would it be like if this was a truck driving over our border? What would this be like if it were Americans who had been in combat?

These people aren't combatants, or are they? And so the way that he's dealing with this, I feel, is very much like a terrorist attack, an attack on known terrorists. But these people are drug runners. Are we comfortable with killing people who are floating in the water who pose no threat?

KEILAR: They're being labeled as terrorists, right?

SANNER: They are.

KEILAR: So that's the very heart of this.

I did think that that point about whether, if you are going to operate under the view that these are terrorists, right, if the military is going to operate under that view...

SANNER: Yes.

KEILAR: ... this idea of there being a radio and calling for backup, it seemed like an important one. That seemed important to a lot of people.

SANNER: Exactly.

KEILAR: And now the two survivors holding onto this capsized boat, 40 minutes or so, 41 minutes, that they did not appear to have a radio or other communications device, how important is that?

SANNER: I think, in some ways, it's important, but, look, they have a view in. If another boat was coming, they could have asked for an action at that point.

But why are you taking a preemptive strike on a theory that they might be...

KEILAR: Does that just strike you as...

SANNER: I think it's noise. I think it's noise.

KEILAR: That's just rhetoric, kind of cover?

SANNER: I do. I mean, so the question is, do we believe, as a country, as Americans, and then as lawmakers, and then as the U.S. military -- OK, maybe you can find a legal thing like, oh, check the box because these are labeled as terrorists.

But, again, if we just break this down into, these are drug runners. Maybe they're head organizations, but we don't know whether they're members and they're sitting there in the water. Does it matter if they radio? If no one's coming, who cares?

KEILAR: It seems like part of the calculus here, and it may be sound calculus politically, not legally, from the administration is...

SANNER: Yes.

KEILAR: ... this is a nation ravaged by drugs.

SANNER: Totally. Totally.

KEILAR: Right. I mean, if you don't know someone, you know someone who has someone in their family...

SANNER: Exactly.

KEILAR: ... who has been so damaged by whatever the drug is, right?

SANNER: Devastating. Completely.

KEILAR: And so they have made a calculation that a lot of Americans are going to look at this and go, so what? So what do you say to them?

SANNER: So this is what I say. The idea that we're striking these boats is premised on some facts that I think are -- we should put out there and ask questions.

What is the chance that this boat was carrying a drug, fentanyl, that would go directly to the United States and kill an American? The chance of that is approximately zero, approximately zero, because fentanyl doesn't come through Venezuela.

So was this cocaine or marijuana headed to a Caribbean island that then would be translated to Europe? Much more likely. Should we kill people who are running those drugs after their boat has been blown up and they're sitting in the water? Why not, as in October, rescue those people, interrogate them, find out more about this scourge?

What the administration is doing on the fentanyl precursors, insisting that China deal with that, absolutely a great policy.