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Top Lawmakers Briefed on U.S. Boat Strike that Killed Survivors; Trump Expected to Tout His Economic Policies in Pennsylvania; KISS Frontman Testifies on Capitol Hill to Fight for Fairness in Music. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 09, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Happening now, some key national security leaders for the Trump administration are preparing to brief the Gang of 8 lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is going to be joined by Secretary of State Marco Rubio and other top security officials as they give congressional leaders a classified update on major national security issues, including that U.S. strike, second strike, that killed two survivors on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean.

Let's get some perspective now from retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks. General, thanks so much for being with us as always. I wonder what you think might justify the Pentagon withholding the unedited footage of that second strike because from the president to the secretary initially, they seemed open to releasing it. And now they're presenting potential complications.

MAJOR GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I don't think there's any reason why that footage should not be displayed. I mean, if there's an element of, I would say primarily the the nature of those that were a part of the first strike and then survived the first strike, and then you see the second strike that goes after them, if that's a very difficult visual for the American public to embrace, I could see where that might be part of the justification. But that's a -- that's a very thin rationale in my mind.

I think the best thing that can happen is just open -- to open this thing up to daylight and investigation. And the Gang of 8 meeting and congressional oversight is the first step in all of that.

SANCHEZ: Given that some lawmakers who do not sit on armed services have seen it like Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, who said that all he had to do was ask, is it that easy for lawmakers to just ask the Pentagon to see it?

[15:35:00]

Or do you think that this is becoming more difficult than it needs to be?

MARKS: Well, I think it's certainly they're making it more difficult, and they might be wrapping it in a security blanket -- a security classification blanket of some sort. You know, after the fact, after the fact that it's already been made available to others, there might be a concern to restrict it.

It is difficult just simply being a member of Congress does is not sufficient justification. And that individual member of Congress may not have the sufficient classifications if, in fact, that's what they're doing. If they're putting a classification on top of it, then it would restrict its distribution.

Again, I think we just need to open this doggone thing up and let everybody look at it.

SANCHEZ: Do you think it's appropriate for this year's defense policy bill to include a provision that would limit the Secretary's travel budget unless he handed over that footage to the House and Senate Armed Services Committees?

MARKS: You're talking about the SEC DEF, the SEC wars travel budget, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MARKS: Yes, yes, absolutely. I think that's nonsense. I mean, that's an arm twist.

It's not necessary. It's just not necessary at all. I mean, there are so many things you could do if you're -- if you're trying to restrict the capabilities and functionality of a cabinet member of the head of, you know, a secretary of one of those executive cabinets.

Limiting the budget might be one way, but the last thing you want to do, regardless of how you feel about the individual, is you want that cabinet member to have the full functionality of that position. You can restrict it in a number of different ways, but to simply say you're the secretary of war, we're now going to decrease your travel budget as it's a form of punishment. I think that's a -- it's not certainly not necessary.

And also it might be labeled petty.

SANCHEZ: Today, both House and Senate Armed Services are set to hear from the outgoing South Com Commander Admiral Alvin Halsey, who resigned after he raised concerns with the legality of these strikes. What do you think he could actually share?

MARKS: Well, I think he'll be able to share -- clearly he's still in uniform and he will continue to be in uniform even after he retires. I mean, you're subject to recall. We understand that.

There are classified pieces -- there are pieces of classified information and intelligence that he will not be able to share unless it's in a closed session. Then he'll -- he can share that quite readily.

I think what he's probably going to say, and I can't put words into his mouth, but if his challenge for the secretary was the legality of these strikes, he has, he as the former South Com Commander, has a general counsel. He has a JAG, a Judge Advocate General, who works for him directly, who is providing the insight compared to what the general counsel of the secretary of war is providing. Those two legal entities get together.

And let me tell you, that happens all the time. Every operation I was a part of, my JAG officer was right there. And at the very end it was, are we OK with this before we continue with this operation? And we needed that kind of an answer.

But you can line up legal figures all the time and you're going to find these differences. I think what it comes down to is a particular JAG officer and a another general counsel agreed to disagree on some very specific issues.

Also, however, they, you know, they might have agreed completely, but the Admiral just felt, ethically, I can't, I cannot do this. Legally, it might be authorized, but ethically, I simply cannot do it. Maybe we'll find that out as well.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we shall see. General Spider Marks always appreciate the time, sir.

MARKS: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Plenty more to come this afternoon. Trump awarding his economy an A-plus, plus, plus, plus, plus. But what do Americans think? CNN digs into the real economic numbers.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: In several hours, President Trump will be speaking in the swing state of Pennsylvania, touting his economy, which he gave the highest marks during an interview with Politico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I do want to talk about the economy, sir, here at home. And I wonder what grade you would give --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A-plus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A-plus.

TRUMP: Yes, A-plus, plus, plus, plus, plus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: But recent polls show the majority of Americans see the economy as failing. A November Fox poll shows 76 percent assess the overall economy as not so good or poor, and 60 percent gave the same ratings to their personal finances.

Let's turn now to CNN business editor-at-large Richard Quest. And Richard, you're actually at the airport, first off. Explain to us why you're at the airport before we get on to the economy piece of this.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: World's busiest airport. Yes, I'm at Atlanta's Hartsfield, and that's because it's Delta's 100th birthday, anniversary this year. So we're doing "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," live from the airport.

So always a good chance to do a bit of plane spotting.

KEILAR: All right, very good. And we're doing some economy spotting here, and so are Americans. And they're not as enthusiastic about it as the president is.

What grade would you give the economy?

QUEST: Oh, I'm not falling for that one. You know, others will give it anywhere between a C or a D or a B. The reality is that this myth that somehow the Republicans took over a failing economy is simply not true.

The economy was in very good shape and getting better. Unemployment was on its way down. Inflation had come down dramatically from where it was.

These are facts, by the way. This is not -- but the problem is that in the first six months of this administration, you had the Big, Beautiful Bill which sort of juiced up things but created huge uncertainty in terms of the deficit, and you had the tariffs. And, Brianna, you cannot avoid the tariffs and their long-term effects on the economy because even this week, with the announcement of farmers' aid, that's because the tariffs have made life more difficult for certain key sections like farmers.

So A-plus, plus, plus, plus, I think that's a political decision. I think most economists will put it somewhere further down the scale.

KEILAR: Yes, and farmers will say that they have felt the tariffs. They are quite frank about their experiences. Richard, there are some new jobs numbers that are out, and in response, a chief economist at the American Staffing Association tells CNN quote, "The labor market is becoming a much more exclusive club for those on the outside, it's getting harder and harder to break in." Tell us why.

QUEST: Because the entry position, the entry point has changing. This is changing. The ground is shifting under our feet in real time.

Whether it's because of immigration and the difficulties relating to that or training, job skills, or of course, AI. We cannot overstate the importance of this significant shift in AI. So the numbers you're talking about, the layoff numbers that we're just seeing, this tells us that the labor market is in great flux.

We haven't had good numbers because of the shutdown. We're really very cloudy about where we're going. But what we do know, and this is why the numbers -- this is why the Fed will probably cut tomorrow.

The cut is almost certainly baked in because things are getting worse on the jobs front. We're going to see more numbers in the months ahead. The structural, systemic changes in the U.S. labor market are only just beginning.

KEILAR: All right, Richard. Well, enjoy your time there at the airport. We appreciate you taking some time out for us today -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. President Trump, in a recent interview, said that he is fine with Supreme Court Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito staying on the high court despite recent chatter in conservative circles that the pair should retire to make room for younger justices. Both men are in their mid-70s and are the two oldest conservatives on the court's 6-3 conservative majority court.

Also, after several hours of delay, the Nobel Institute has canceled a planned news conference with 2025 Peace Prize winner and Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. She's been in hiding, and this would have been her first public appearance since January. Machado is still expected to be in attendance for tomorrow's awards ceremony in Norway. No word, though, on when or how she will arrive.

And a prison break of a totally different sort. South Carolina authorities intercepted a drone trying to break in to the high- security Lee County Correctional Institution, and it didn't just carry any kind of contraband.

Officials say the package included, among other things, crab legs, Old Bay seasoning, a steak, and two bags of marijuana. A spokesperson for the Department of Correction said that even for them, this incident was peculiar. Sounds like a good Saturday night.

Still to come, Kennedy Center honoree Gene Simmons of the rock and roll band KISS is still in Washington today asking Congress to give musicians more of a voice over how they get paid. The latest on that when we come back.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: A KISS to the capital. Right now, rock legend Gene Simmons is on the Hill putting his star power behind a push to essentially tell radio stations to pay up.

KEILAR: He wants Congress to pass a bill that would require AM and FM radio stations to pay royalties to recording artists and performers when they broadcast their music, ending a decades-old exemption in U.S. copyright law. And Simmons says this bill is not just for the legends of music, but for future stars as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENE SIMMONS, CO-LEAD SINGER AND BASSIST OF KISS: And we're going to stand by and not pay today's artists and future artists because, let's face it, our children are tomorrow's stars. They're going to claw and fight their way up to the top, and it's really hard to do it. And once you reach the top of Mount Olympus, which is in the center of America, baby, don't kid yourself, it ain't in Greece, this is the land of opportunity where greatness is possible if you put your metal -- I'm talking about heavy metal. So what I just did it was a joke. When you work hard and you get to the top, what do you got? Zipporooni.

That's not the American way. If you are against this bill, you are un- American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Wow. Joining us now is Dominic Patton, executive editor for Deadline.com. I am totally -- Zipporooni. Got to love that, Dominic. Are you surprised to see Gene Simmons up on the Hill?

Can you explain more about what he's, you know, lobbying for here?

DOMINIC PATTEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, DEADLINE.COM: Well, what he's talking about, Brianna, is the American Music Fairness Act, which is pretty much everything you need to know is in the name. You know, Gene Simmons is Gene Simmons. And I have to say this, as a lifelong member of the KISS Army, I'm good with it.

[15:55:00]

But I will also say, too, what he's talking about here is a very legitimate thing, and something he said earlier today in his testimony was he talked about the world is changing. We're now in a world of streaming. We're now in a world where people used to put out records and then go on tour.

The record is merely a hint for the tour now. That's where the money is. But all these ways in which the music industry has changed.

But radio has stayed the same. Earlier, Gene Simmons talked about, and I thought it was a great example, Bing Crosby never made a dime from White Christmas. So if you want to go after these artists and say, look, Gene Simmons is a gazillionaire.

KISS sold a zillion records, et cetera, et cetera. But when music is played on the radio, the songwriter gets money, the record labels get money, the radio stations get money, a lot of money, even a changing market in AM and FM radio. But the actual performer gets nothing.

And the American Music Fairness Act, which is a bipartisan act, Republican senator from Tennessee, Democratic senator from California behind it, Adam Schiff in the hearing today pushing it. That is something that I think, I think we can all agree on this holiday season. People should be paid for their work.

SANCHEZ: You touched on this a moment ago, but I wanted you to expand on it, Dominic. How much does radio still matter to an artist's bottom line in the Spotify, Apple Music streaming era?

PATTEN: Well, I think, Boris, when you look at it, you know, radio used to be everything. It's where we discovered when we were kids, where we discovered new things, et cetera, et cetera. Nowadays, we mainly do it on our phones.

But in terms of you're in the car, in terms of you're in a public place, radio is playing. This is a way in which music is introduced. Now, a lot of stations work on different formats, but when you look at more on the local level, and there are provisions in this bill, from my understanding, for the local level, the exposure this can give to people is phenomenal.

You know, still artists, be it on NPR or some local FM station, they show up, they do an in-studio interview, they play their new song, it matters. What matters, though, is in terms of this, is that reach that AM and FM radio have. In many ways, I've said it before, it's the secret weapon of modern media.

We forget about it, but it's there all the time and people are always listening. If we doubt that, look at the influence of talk radio over the past 20 years. These are where songs get played, and people still rely on these.

Songwriters rely on these. Record labels rely on these. As I said before, the radio stations rely on these, the performer doesn't. So, there are many ways I find myself in disagreement with Gene Simmons, hairstyles being one of them, clothes maybe not today, but I will say this, this is a fair thing, and it reminds me, and you guys might remember this, back in the 80s when Dee Snider and Frank Zappa and John Denver showed up to talk against Tipper Gore's explicit content rules, which should go through.

You know, Frank Zappa showed up in a suit, John Denver showed up in a blazer, Dee Snider showed up in all his denim and stuff, but he gave a great argument. Artists need to be allowed to have free expression, and in this case, artists need to be paid.

KEILAR: And why does it take until now to get to this point with this issue?

PATTEN: Well, I mean, I think for the same reason a lot of things do. Congress moves at a glacial speed, you guys know that more than anyone, and so there's that. But there's also a lot of disagreement.

Right now, this bill is in the House, where it has kind of been perched and parked for a long time. Gene Simmons seems to indicate from his Kennedy Center honors this weekend and other conversations that Donald Trump is in favor of signing this. He has signed other music modernization bills.

You know, again, we're in a changing economy. Look at all the discussion about Warner Brothers being bought by Netflix or Paramount. The whole dynamic of media changes almost yearly now.

So in terms of this is Congress, the law needs to catch up with in many ways, the argument can be made, with the social realities of this. It's a question of throwing out what has been the standard for a hundred years now and coming up with a new way of doing things. We do that on many different levels. I mean, look, streaming music didn't really even exist 22 years ago. Now there's a whole system that works. Some people say Spotify rips off artists, some people say it's unfair, benefits only big artists like Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga and not independents, but there's a system in place.

There is not a system of payment in radio. It's a glaring omission in many ways. I was amazed the number of people I spoke to about this who had no idea that this was the case.

So I think it's going to move forward, but it's going to have to get bipartisan support. And that doesn't come easy in D.C., you guys know.

KEILAR: It does not. All right, Dominic, thank you so much for that.

Reyes, the woof, a record-breaking golden gathering took place in Argentina.

More than 2,000 golden retrievers meeting up on Buenos Aires, breaking the unofficial world record of the largest gathering of the dog breed in one place.

SANCHEZ: They were all in different outfits, like Santa hats, sports jerseys, etc., while their owners mingled over drinks and snapped pictures with their pooches. If you're wondering, the previous unofficial record was set last year in Vancouver, where more than 1,600 golden retrievers showed up. They are so sweet.

[16:00:00]

KEILAR: I requested this story. I said, this is the content we need to send off the show. Doesn't it make you happy?

SANCHEZ: Not the contraband going into the prison? I thought that story was pretty cool.

KEILAR: Actually, that was great. Old bay seasoning.

SANCHEZ: That's what makes it a good Saturday. It's true.

KEILAR: Come on. Yes. "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunts starts now.

END