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Will Federal Reserve Lower Interest Rates?; Kentucky State University Shooting Investigation; Interview With Rep. Chris Deluzio (D-PA); Trump Blasts Affordability Focus. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: To cut or not to cut interest rates? This is set to be the Fed's toughest call in over a year. In just an hour, the Central Bank is set to make its decision. We're going to preview it and break it down with what it all means for your wallet.

Plus, President Trump hitting the road and veering off script. On the first stop of his tour to talk about Americans affordability concerns, the president again claims the issue is a Democratic hoax.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And case closed? The chairman of a key panel investigating the September follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean says he's ready to end the investigation into the matter. But do other lawmakers on that panel agree? We will ask one.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: In less than an hour from now, the Fed will answer one of its toughest decisions on interest rates in over a year. Will they cut rates to try to boost the labor market or would they hold steady, believing that that might risk driving inflation even higher?

Investors are overwhelmingly betting on another quarter-point cut with some 90 percent odds. A couple of questions remain, though. Just how divided is the Fed going to be and will outgoing Fed Chair Jerome Powell give any departing message on the Fed's independence, especially because President Trump says Powell's successor will be expected to cut rates?

Let's go to CNN's Matt Egan, who's live for us in Washington, D.C.

So, Matt, what will you be watching for?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Boris, this is a tough call for an increasingly divided Federal Reserve. And yet investors, economists, Fed watchers would be shocked if the

Fed does nothing today. As you mentioned, there's a 90 percent chance priced into the market of a quarter-point cut today. So, in some ways, the Fed almost has to cut interest rates in the next hour because, if they don't, it could really rattle financial markets, which is something that Fed officials do not like to do.

So, look, if this plays out as expected, this would be a third straight interest rate cut from the Fed. It would lower the Fed interest rate to three-year lows, almost 2 full percentage points below their recent peak last year.

Now, this would be good news for borrowers, especially people who have home equity lines of credit, possibly a little bit lower credit card rates, for mortgage rates. We have seen mortgage rates start to move lower, but not as low as the Fed rate.

And that's because the bond market really calls the shots there. But we also have to talk about why the Fed is likely to cut rates today. It's not because inflation is down, right? Inflation isn't down. It's basically right where it was at the start of this year at 3 percent based on the last CPI report.

It's because unemployment is up, right? Unemployment went from 4 percent at the start of the year to 4.4 percent as of September. And there's Fed officials who are worried that this job market weakness will spread.

But not only does the Fed have to balance these competing issues of stubborn inflation and rising unemployment. They're also navigating through some significant fog when it comes to economic data. The government shutdown has delayed a number of different major economic reports.

The most recent jobs report is 70 days old at this point. We're not getting new jobs numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics until next week. And so that is one of the reasons why we are expecting a significant number of dissents in this decision.

There's some Fed watchers who think we could get three dissents. Boris, we have not seen that since 2019.

SANCHEZ: Matt, the Fed also navigating some intense political pressure directly from the White House. Do you think Chairman Powell might address that?

EGAN: Well, he's certainly going to face questions about that. He's pretty good at dodging those political questions, though.

But look, no doubt the White House has put the Federal Reserve under enormous pressure. The president clearly wants not just slightly lower interest rates. He wants dramatically lower interest rates.

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But Fed officials have been consistent, right? They say they don't take into account the politics. They don't care which party is in political power and how these decisions are going to boost one party or another. They say that they base these decisions based on what's right for the economy.

And I think that the big key in the next hour or so is going to be what the Fed projects going forward, right? How many interest rate cuts are they penciling in for next year? Because there is this expectation that today's move could be a hawkish cut, which would mean, yes, lower interest rates, but also signaling that the bar for further interest rate cuts next year could be higher.

And then the other thing, Boris, is, what does the Fed say about inflation going forward? How long do they think it's going to take for inflation to go back to normal? And how much higher do they think the unemployment rate is going to go? So, a lot of significant questions facing the Fed in the next hour.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the huge decision coming in about 50-ish, 54-ish minutes. We will see you then. Matt Egan, thank you so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: As the Fed considers rate cuts to help the job market, President Trump is signaling that the economy is doing just fine. At a Pennsylvania rally last night, the president glossed over Americans'' concerns about more expensive groceries and rising health care costs.

Instead, he's blaming Democrats for those problems while simultaneously boasting about where the Trump economy now stands.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're getting inflation -- we're crushing it. And you're getting much higher wages. I mean, the only thing that's really going up big, it's called the stock market and your 401(k)s.

They have a new word. They always have a hoax. The new word is affordability. So they look at the camera and they say, this election is all about affordability.

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KEILAR: CNN's Jeff Zeleny is here with us now.

I mean, I think that maybe this election is, though, and also the last one was, right? This is what is on people's minds. It is how much their lives are costing. And Republicans have to grapple with how this is being messaged.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There is no doubt about it.

And the president said the word affordability. I think it was how he said the word affordability that was pretty interesting, almost dripping with disdain and almost mocking it. But, look, I don't think anyone necessarily expected President Trump to go to Monroe County, Pennsylvania, and suddenly open up a new empathetic strain.

It's just simply not him. What he did do is talk about the economy, for sure, talked about stocks in 401(k)s. We should remember, obviously, the entire -- the country is not all in the market.

KEILAR: Yes.

ZELENY: I mean, it's very much -- many of his voters are not.

But it was interesting, listening to a 90-minute speech when he talked specifically about not staying on message, and he seemed to brag about it.

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TRUMP: So it's November 5, and it's also -- again, it's a thing called tariffs. And I told you, I was about to say that, because I love the weave, the weave. You know what the weave is? Here, bing, bing, bing, bing. You always have to get back to the right location. But otherwise they will criticize you for straying from the speech.

If I -- by the way, if I read what's on the teleprompter, you would all be falling asleep right now.

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ZELENY: I'm not sure if that's true.

Look, the people in the room who came to the event are true believers. They are going to be with Donald Trump until the end. The question, of course, is those who are in the middle. And the fight for the House majority is very much at stake. Republicans have a very narrow grip on that.

So I'm not sure how much he advanced the cause last night. But, look, he is leaving the White House. That's one kind of progress. He's done very little of that this year, so following the advice of his aides and going out into the country, not necessarily saying all what they would like him to say.

KEILAR: It's always progress when we can get out of our houses, I will say.

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ZELENY: Right. Right. Exactly.

KEILAR: But do you expect President Trump to make any adjustments to his message as we move towards the midterms?

ZELENY: Look, I don't think he suddenly will turn over a new leaf.

One thing that is very striking, though, is his chief of staff, Susie Wiles, has said this week something fairly extraordinary. She said, we're going to try and put Trump on the ballot. And we have covered a lot of midterm races over the years. That's the last thing most White Houses want to do. They want to make these local races, not national races.

So, look, it's going to be nationalized regardless. But the idea that him being on the ballot, Democrats are like, OK, bring it on. We love the idea of that.

But, look, it is a very close contest. I think they are -- one sign of adjustment is the fact that he is campaigning at all. Again, he's done so very little of that this year. So that's a course correction. We will see how much his language changes next year.

But interestingly is the actual economy. Does the economy approve by next November, or is it worse? We don't know the answer to that. But his policies, his tariff policies, are impacting people not entirely negative ways, but in some negative ways, no doubt.

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KEILAR: Especially some of his key constituencies.

It's interesting, because the president was so able on the campaign trail to really tap in and capitalize on the frustrations, those economic frustrations that Americans have. But the shoe's now on the other foot. He has been in the White House for almost a year now. So it's his. I mean, this is his baby. And he's having a hard time with it.

ZELENY: I mean, you wouldn't know it by listening to him.

He's still blaming everything on Joe Biden. There is a shelf life to that. I would say it's expired already. People know that Joe Biden is not in control of this economy. So his policies now are going to be front and center.

What's interesting is to hear Vice President J.D. Vance talk about that. He actually urges Americans, asks Americans to be patient, be patient with our policies. They will come. And I think that voters are more likely to give him some time with that. And, interestingly enough, J.D. Vance is going to Pennsylvania not far from where President Trump was last night.

He's going next week. We have covered a lot of campaigns and things. How often is it that the vice president sort of follows up for the president a week after virtually in the same location? So I think he's batting a bit of cleanup here. But it's the vice president's message of give us a little more time that might be more helpful.

KEILAR: Yes, normally, they bracket their opponent, not their principal, right?

ZELENY: Right.

KEILAR: Interesting.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

ZELENY: You bet. KEILAR: Still to come: The Republican chair of the House Armed Services Committee saying he plans to end the investigation into a double airstrike on an alleged drug boat that happened back in September, even as the Pentagon faces growing scrutiny over that strike. We will get reaction from a Democrat on the committee next.

And then, later, hear from kids in Australia as a first-of-its-kind social media ban goes into effect. How do they feel about it? I'm very curious. I asked my kids what they thought about it. That was also interesting.

Find out ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: The Republican leading the House Armed Services Committee now reportedly plans to end the investigation into the controversial follow-up boat strike from early September that killed two survivors of the military attack on their alleged drug boat in the Caribbean.

An aide to the committee telling reporters that Congressman Mike Rogers has received all the information he needed to convince him that this was a legal action. Rogers had previously pledged rigorous oversight of the September 2 strikes.

We're joined now by Democratic Congressman Chris Deluzio of Pennsylvania. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee. He also appeared in a video urging troops to defy illegal orders.

Congressman, first off, what's your reaction to this idea of winding down the probe?

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): Well, the probe hasn't even really happened, as far as I'm concerned. I'm a member of the Armed Services Committee. I have not seen this video. I have not heard from anyone involved in the orders that were given, who gave them, what they saw at the time when they gave those orders.

And so this probe hasn't even really started, in my book. We need a full investigation to find out exactly what happened, what was going on, on that video feed as they were making decisions, who was giving commands. And, remember, that's just around this strike.

There are still major questions that I and others have around the legality of this whole operation. The public has never seen the administration's legal rationale for what they're doing. Congress decides whether we go to war with other countries, whether we engage our military in deadly strikes.

Congress has not authorized this. The American people have not authorized this.

KEILAR: You haven't seen the video. The chairman is now pushing for the full committee to see the video. Are you expecting to see that soon? Do you know when?

DELUZIO: I don't know when. I expect us to see it. And we should.

And, look, Donald Trump, as president, even said the public should see this. I agree with the president. The public ought to see what the commanders were seeing at the time to make our own judgments here. And, again, I think this is an investigation that is just getting started.

So, to say it's over, that's not reality. Members like me haven't even seen this video yet. We haven't heard from Admiral Bradley or others involved. And I think we need to start getting real answers to questions for the American people.

KEILAR: What power do you have as Democrats in the minority to keep this going, though?

DELUZIO: Well, certainly, making the case through our constituents to the majority that they ought to be doing something here.

And this is different than just politics. This is about our Constitution and the oversight responsibility that we all have as members of Congress, Democrat or Republican. We have a sacred oversight responsibility here for our military. Our service members deserve nothing less from us.

And so I'd hope my Republican counterparts will put their politics aside and deference to the president, who I know they are so scared of, and do what's right under the Constitution for the American people and get answers. Put this out in public view. Have these debates in public. Have the legal rationale out there for the American people to scrutinize. They shouldn't be afraid of transparency.

KEILAR: I know you said you want more information of the administration's legal rationale for this strike and probably more broadly of these operations in general.

There are two sources with direct knowledge telling CNN that Admiral Mitch Bradley told lawmakers last week he had consulted with the uniformed lawyer on duty during the operation before he approved that secondary strike that killed the survivors. The sources added that the JAG officer assessed it would be legal to move forward with a second strike.

How are you viewing that information?

DELUZIO: Look, that's why, rather than jump to conclusions here, let's have the investigation. Let's have the admiral and others talk to us in the committee, so that we can assure the public one way or the other what's happened.

Was there wrongdoing? Should there be accountability? I don't want to jump to those conclusions. I'd rather we do the work, the fact- finding, as we should, in the Congress. And that just hasn't happened from members of the Armed Services Committee.

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KEILAR: So, as I mentioned, you were in that controversial video, certainly one that a lot of Republican critics have taken issue with, Democrats who are veterans or formerly in the intelligence community stressing that those in the military should not follow illegal orders.

You said on November 25 that the FBI had reached out to the House and Senate sergeants at arms requesting interviews. Has the FBI further pursued an interview with you or your colleagues?

DELUZIO: Not that I'm aware of.

KEILAR: And Secretary Hegseth gave the Navy secretary a December 10 deadline for his recommendation on Senator Mark Kelly on this same issue. Hegseth was reportedly weighing options ranging from reducing Kelly's rank -- he, of course, retired as a captain in the Navy -- his pension, to prosecuting him under the UCMJ, the military -- well, military law system, according to a source.

Have you happened to speak to Senator Kelly? Do you know if anything has happened? Do you have an opinion on what you see transpiring there?

DELUZIO: Well, he will have the latest on what's going on.

But I think this is crazy stuff. It's outrageous. Look, you have got an elected member of the Senate in the legislative branch that has constitutional duties of oversight being intimidated and threatened by the executive branch.

And let's remember not just what Senator Kelly and I and others said, what Pete Hegseth has said time and time again, which is that no one can force our troops to follow illegal orders. Attorney General Pam Bondi put this in a legal briefing to the Supreme Court just last year.

This is the law. And the fact that these guys are willing to try to target, intimidate members of Congress for saying the law, I'm not going to be intimidated number one. But it tells me more about them, it tells me more about the president that his response to us stating a law is, arrest them, kill them, hang them.

That tells me all I need to know about his respect for our Constitution.

KEILAR: So, I mean, as you are talking, as you have shared that the FBI has reached out to officials there in the House and the Senate, as we see what Hegseth has said about Mark Kelly, you say it's intimidation.

How are you viewing this effort, beyond this initially what we have heard? Are you expecting this to go further?

DELUZIO: I have no idea. And, frankly, the administration will have to answer that question. But I will tell you, I have been hearing from lots of folks at home and across the country, Democrats and Republicans alike, that they think these calls for violence and intimidation are beyond the pale. This is outrageous stuff.

And, again, the fact that you have got Pete Hegseth, Pam Bondi and so many others saying the exact same thing that guys like me said, it tells you just how hypocritical and willing they are to try to intimidate dissent in our government. This is America. We resolve differences.

They can be tough differences. We do it at the ballot box. We do it on the floor and the House and the Senate. We don't do it by sending law enforcement to shut people up and threaten criminal prosecution for stating the law. That's dangerous Third World stuff.

KEILAR: Congressman Chris Deluzio, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate it.

DELUZIO: Thank you.

KEILAR: And still ahead: a campus in mourning. Classes are canceled at Kentucky State University after a student was shot and killed outside of a dorm. We have new details about the suspect next.

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SANCHEZ: The suspected gunman accused of opening fire at Kentucky State University is said to be arraigned tomorrow.

Jacob Bard is facing charges of murder and assault after police in Frankfort say he shot two people yesterday, killing one student and critically wounding another. Bard is 48 years old, not a student. Kentucky state classes and exams have since been canceled.

The shooting happened at a dorm, just outside a dorm, after 3:00 p.m. A student who lives there described what he saw.

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ANDREW KENDRICK, KENTUCKY STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Got to the lobby and saw some dude laying on the lobby floor, people taking care of him. They carried him out eventually to an ambulance. And then we saw paramedics giving CPR to the kid who died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Ryan Young has the latest details.

And Ryan, the university says that this was not a targeted attack.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's still some questions about all of this. And, Boris, just in the last few minutes we got a heads-up from the Frankfort Police Department that they will be holding a press conference within the next hour. We're wondering if that's the point they will start sharing some of the motive here.

But, once again, as you heard, it was around 3:10 when this shooting happened. So, there's so many questions about what exactly happened that caused Jacob Lee Bard to open fire. Like we noted, he's 48 years old. He will face that judge for the first time tomorrow.

And we know, just in the last half-hour, the corner's office actually shared with me the victim of yesterday's shooting. Of course, he's a Kentucky state student. He's 19 years old. His name is De'Jon Fox. And, of course, he passed away.

You heard the university president also talk about it was such a hard phone call to call these parents to let them know something happened on campus, another student still in critical condition.

But, as you can imagine, for the students on that campus, this has been sort of earth-shaking for them. Take a listen.

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LESTER BROWN, KENTUCKY STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: This is the type of stuff we try to get away. And to come to college and have it be right at our doorstep, it was just, like, crazy. And we pay too much money for this kind of stuff to be taking place at this school.

ANTHONY JONES, KENTUCKY STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yes, I feel the same way basically. Like, I was just safe here. Ready to get up out of here now that I heard that.

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YOUNG: Yes, this shooting happened outside of Whitney M. Young Jr. Residence Hall on campus. There were so many people who were scared by that gunfire that happened there.