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Senate Rejects Democrats' and GOP's Health Care Bills; Interview with Rep. Ted Lieu (D-CA): U.S. Seizes Oil Tanker in Dramatic Escalation with Venezuela; DOJ Fails to Reindict Letitia James for a Second Time; Court Orders Kilmar Abrego Garcia be Released Immediately. Aired 3:00-3:30p ET

Aired December 11, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: ... Too much away, but I will say come for Alexander Skarsgard's outfit and stay for the conversation. It really goes off the rails and the finale, which will be next week because we have new episodes dropping every day, is Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence. The conversation is incredible and it's Leo's first time ever doing "ACTORS ON ACTORS."

KEILAR: Awesome, can't wait for that. Elizabeth, thank you so much. Really fun stuff.

And you can watch -- you can catch more of this "ACTORS ON ACTORS" right now on CNN All Access. A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

Dramatic video capturing the U.S. seizing an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela in a major new escalation from the Trump administration. Venezuela's opposition leader calling the move decisive as President Trump looks to weaken the Nicolas Maduro regime.

Plus, an explosive investigation at the University of Michigan. The school's former head football coach is now behind bars just hours after being fired for what the school calls an inappropriate relationship with a staff member.

And Washington State declaring a state of emergency after record- breaking rain brings extreme flooding to parts of the state. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We start this hour with a lot of finger pointing on Capitol Hill after the Senate failed to pass not one but two different bills aimed at addressing the looming health care crisis. Today, the Senate rejected both a Republican and a Democratic plan. So come January 1st, enhanced Obamacare subsidies will have expired.

That is unless Congress acts in the next few weeks. Keep in mind, without a deal, millions of Americans will see their premiums spike. That could potentially cause another two million more Americans to go uninsured. That is according to a nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examination.

CNN's Manu Raju is live for us on Capitol Hill. Manu, do you see lawmakers finding any kind of compromise before they head out for the holiday recess?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The short answer is no, Boris. In fact, these two sides are very much on the complete opposite sides on how to deal with this issue. There are members on the middle of the Republican conference in particular who are raising major concerns.

Those are the ones who represent swing districts and who are very much worried about the political blowback that they may endure come the midterm elections next year. And they are putting pressure on their leadership to act. Remember, the Republican leaders in the Senate and in the House furiously opposed the Affordable Care Act.

They want different changes to the health care law. And they certainly oppose these Obamacare subsidies that were enhanced during the COVID era that are set to expire at year's end. And they do not favor a straight extension of those subsidies.

And that's what Democrats in the Senate put forward today, a three- year plan to extend those subsidies. It failed. It did not get 60 votes.

It did get four Republicans to vote with the 47 Democrats. But falling short of the 60 needed, the Democrats blocked a Republican plan, an alternative plan as well. So there's no resolution there.

I did catch up with one Republican who is retiring who does represent a swing district, Don Bacon of Nebraska. And I asked him about the concerns he has as he is pushing for a short-term extension of those subsidies amid opposition from his leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DON BACON (R-NE): And all these folks are going to go back home and you're going to have to look voters in the eye and say we've done nothing while their premiums are going up like $2,000 a month. It's not going to happen. The reality is going to hit here.

We got to -- to me, it's just a basic reality. We need a short-term extension. And then let's talk about some deeper reforms.

RAJU: The Speaker seems dead set against this though.

BACON: Because what he's hearing from a lot of folks, hey, we didn't vote for ACA. We didn't vote for the IRA. This is a Democrat problem, but we're in charge.

RAJU: How bad do you think this will be for Republicans if you do not extend these subsidies?

BACON: I think it will be used like a sledgehammer on us a year from now. The reality will be bad. (END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU (on camera): And the Speaker himself just told a group of us that he does plan to offer his own health care plan as soon as next week. But Boris, there is no real sense that has any chance of passing, particularly the United States Senate, where we need 60 votes to pass. Democrats are almost certainly going to vote against it, even as the Speaker himself faces pressure from those moderate members to put a short-term extension on the floor of the House -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Manu Raju, live for us on Capitol Hill. Thank you so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: The White House is now saying a lot more about the oil tanker that the U.S. military seized off the coast of Venezuela yesterday. Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt just confirmed the U.S. does plan to keep that oil, she says, after proper legal steps are taken. Leavitt also defended the operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Department of Justice requested and was approved for a warrant to seize a vessel because it's a sanctioned shadow vessel known for carrying black market sanctioned oil to the IRGC.

The vessel is currently undergoing a forfeiter process right now. The United States currently has a full investigative team on the ground, on the vessel, and individuals on board the vessel are being interviewed and any relevant evidence is being seized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: We're joined now by Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu of California. Congressman, do you agree with this decision?

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Thank you, Brianna, for your question. Grocery costs continue to increase, and health care costs are skyrocketing. What is the President focused on?

Starting another forever war in Venezuela. I mean, what are we doing here? The administration struck a drug boat on September 2nd that wasn't even carrying fentanyl, wasn't even headed to the United States, and now they seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela.

We need congressional oversight, and unfortunately, the House Republicans are simply rubber stamps for this administration, and so we need to understand why the administration has these misplaced priorities.

KEILAR: OK, and so I hear you on that. What do you think he's doing? And then I want to talk to you specifically about this operation.

What do you think he's doing? LIEU: I think Donald Trump is trying to distract the American people from the real issues facing ordinary Americans, such as grocery prices and health care prices and electricity costs. And again, why are we even doing these things in Venezuela without congressional authorization? Congress has not voted for war with Venezuela.

We haven't even voted for an authorization for the use of military force, and now we're striking alleged drug boats and seizing oil tankers. This is insane. We need congressional oversight, and the administration needs to come to Congress and get authorization to take these actions.

KEILAR: So specifically on this seizure of the oil tanker, it's not the first time that this has been done. It was done under the Biden administration. What do you think about that?

LIEU: You have to look at this in context. This is on the heels of multiple strikes on Venezuela boats. And again, the strike on September 2nd was so disturbing that Congress, on a bipartisan basis, put into the National Defense Authorization Act, you've got to release the video of that strike to American people, especially the second strike.

And so we clearly have concerns in Congress, and we need the administration to focus on reducing costs instead of their random escapades around the world.

KEILAR: And what are your concerns as far as -- and obviously there are concerns about apparent goals of regime change here. What are your concerns about Maduro staying in power now that we've seen what happened during the 2024 election there, that it was a total farce? Obviously you have a lot of concerns, criticisms of what he's doing, how he's obviously not involving Congress in this.

But what are your concerns about Venezuela being under Maduro's rule right now?

LIEU: Sure, yes. Maduro is a horrible, evil person, and I would love to see regime change there. I would love to see regime change in a lot of other countries, the horrible, evil dictators.

But that is not what the American people are concerned about right now. We're concerned about lowering prices on groceries and healthcare and electricity rates. And this administration is totally not focused on that.

And I just ask the president to please focus on what he campaigned on, which was eliminating forever wars and reducing prices, both of which he has totally and utterly failed.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you about that follow-up strike that happened on September 11th on that alleged drug boat. You say video evidence appears to confirm a war crime has occurred in that instance. There are two sources with direct knowledge telling CNN that Admiral Mitch Bradley told lawmakers last week he consulted with the uniformed lawyer on duty during the operation before approving that secondary strike that killed survivors.

And the JAG officer assessed it would be legal to move forward with the second strike. We should note you were a JAG. What questions do you have for that particular JAG?

What questions do you have about this military legal process?

LIEU: I served on active duty as a JAG for four years and then 21 years in the reserves. It is indisputable that you cannot strike shipwreck survivors. That is an illegal order. That is a war crime.

And if the Department of Defense wants to justify it, they've got to release the video of that second strike that Congress on a bipartisan basis demanded. And by the way, the first strike is also illegal.

[15:10:00]

This boat was not even headed towards the United States. It was headed based on public reporting to another foreign country, Suriname, to then get drugs to Europe. Under no legal justification does the president's Article II self-defense power apply to the self-defense of the foreign country of Suriname or of Europe. So even the first strike, in my opinion, is illegal.

KEILAR: And a number of people hold that opinion. Of course, the administration disagrees with you. And that's obviously something that, you know, I think is going to be debated.

But I want to ask you, because as you hear that a JAG was involved in this process, what does that say to you? Because there was a military lawyer approving this. So what specific questions would you have for that lawyer?

Who that lawyer might be? What this process is as someone who's been in that process?

LIEU: So let's take a step back. The administration fired a bunch of JAGs earlier this year, and they sent a signal, if you don't kneel down to this administration's line, then, you know, we're going to fire you. So there is that pressure on everyone in the administration to simply do whatever pops into the president's mind.

Second, the questions I would ask is, on what legal justification do you strike two shipwreck survivors? By the way, in the middle of nowhere, in the freaking ocean, just common sense. Two people, their boat is blown up.

They're floating around with no means of locomotion, no radio. There is no reasonable justification for killing them. And we know, by the way, that the Department of Defense knows this is wrong, because there were additional strikes on other boats where there were survivors.

And guess what? They went and they saved those survivors instead of killing them.

KEILAR: Congressman Ted Lieu, thank you so much for being with us. We do appreciate it.

LIEU: Thank you.

KEILAR: We do have some breaking news now. The Justice Department has failed to reindict Letitia James for a second time. CNN's Katelyn Polantz standing by with more on this.

This is a significant development. Tell us about it, Katelyn.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Another failure by the Justice Department to get this case against Letitia James off of the ground after it had been dismissed from the first time around when they had secured it. What we know now from multiple sources speaking to Hannah Rabinowitz, Kaitlan Collins and I, these sources say a grand jury, a federal grand jury in the federal court in Alexandria, Virginia, they were asked to consider an indictment against James today. And those grand jurors, a quorum of them said, no way, we're not going to indict James.

This is the second time that this has happened in a week. The last time that this happened, it was December 4th, not in Alexandria, but in Norfolk, another part of the very same court system, the Eastern District of Virginia. Grand juries in Norfolk and Alexandria have both now in one week said no to indicting Letitia James.

Remember, Brianna, this case, it was an allegation of mortgage fraud against James, saying that she had made an application for a second home and somehow was able to get more out of the loan agreement than she should have because she ended up having other people stay in that home, whereas it wasn't actually her second home. A few thousand dollars a year would have been the benefit that she got of that, according to the mortgage fraud allegations. That case was initially dismissed just a few weeks after it had been charged this fall because the prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia that secured it, that's Lindsey Halligan, a Trump appointee.

She was ruled to have no authority to take that case through a grand jury. And so the Justice Department after that dismissal, they went back and tried again, first in Norfolk and now again in Alexandria, and they have not been able to recharge James. Quite a development.

Now the question is, what do they do next, Brianna?

KEILAR: Why take another whack if you have doubts about whether it's going to land, Katelyn?

POLANTZ: Well, Brianna, there is a question of why the Justice Department does this sort of thing when this happens. We have rarely seen what is called a no true bill or a rejection by a grand jury in the past. That just wasn't something the Justice Department was in practice doing, bringing cases that they didn't think that they could even get a grand jury to sign off on.

It's only a probable cause finding they have to make, and it doesn't even have to be the whole grand jury. They don't have to be in unanimity like at a trial. However, this Trump administration, there are cases that the political leadership wants.

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And there are cases that prosecutors, not just in the Eastern District of Virginia, but also in Washington, D.C., in Los Angeles, that the federal prosecutors appointed by Trump, are sent to those districts by Trump, have tried to get off of the ground, taken them to grand juries and the grand juries have said, no, and the administration has tried again. Again there's a big question if they are following the proper procedures of the Justice Department in the past.

But this is a very unusual moment to have something like this happen, and also for it to be this case, one that we know Donald Trump wanted very, very much against a political foe of his, Letitia James, the New York Attorney General.

KEILAR: Yes. Wow. Katelyn, thank you so much for that update.

Still to come, a judge slamming the Trump administration for keeping a Maryland man in ICE detention months after he was wrongfully deported to El Salvador. We'll have new details on a court order calling for the immediate release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We're following breaking news to CNN. A grand jury has declined to bring a new indictment against New York Attorney General Letitia James for a second time. With me now is former Miami-Dade County Court Judge Jeff Swartz.

Sir, thanks so much for being with us. What's your reaction to this news?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COURT JUDGE: Nice to see you, Boris. I'm not really surprised. This is one of those instances where you can point to it and say that Donald Trump and Pam Bondi just talked too much.

If they were going to indict her and they were going to indict Comey, they should have done it and then announced it. Right now, these grand jurors and everybody in this country know too much about this case. They know they're not getting everything that they should know.

And the government has absolutely no proof of specific intent on her. There is a misdemeanor that they can file a complaint on, but that is not going to make Donald Trump happy.

SANCHEZ: So this latest decision by a grand jury was in Alexandria, Virginia. The previous one a week ago was in Norfolk, Virginia. Do you anticipate that the government is just going to keep looking for grand juries in other places to try to find one that will indict her?

Is that something they can actually do? SWARTZ: They can try. But what I'm -- the thing that's really important about that is that the more they try and the more they fail, the more her motion for vindictive and vexatious litigation against her will succeed with a trial judge.

SANCHEZ: Interesting. Judge, I also want to get your thoughts on other breaking news that we're following. The federal judge earlier today that ruled that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the Maryland father that the Trump administration wrongfully deported back in March, should be immediately released from ICE custody.

Your thoughts.

SWARTZ: Well, his release is actually a home confinement and he is going to be fairly confined. My thoughts on it are that the judge made it abundantly clear that the problem here is that the government is trying to pursue his removal to places in Africa where he does not want to go obviously.

He has cleared with the government of Costa Rica that he can go there. They will take him. They will let him live there. That somehow is unacceptable to the government.

More likely than not, they want him to go to Africa where he will be stuck there, doesn't know anybody, doesn't know the language, doesn't know anything. And may, in fact, when he arrives, be put in custody and basically be jailed again.

So I think that at this point, the judge is saying, you've taken your shot. You've had enough. I'm going to let him out. And it may be a long time till you get this thing resolved.

Why don't you just accept his offer to self-deport?

SANCHEZ: DHS, a spokesperson called the decision from this judge naked judicial activism. What happens if the administration refuses to follow through on the order to release him?

SWARTZ: Well, if they refuse to release him, then there's a contempt citation that could come their way. And the judge could order INS in this particular case directly to INS saying you must release him and send the marshals out there to get him. So he's supposed to be released to the marshals anyway and put on an ankle bracelet and home confinement.

I don't think that they're just out and out going to refuse, at least according to what Kris -- Miss Noem said. Secretary Noem said today in her hearings that they will obey court orders. Up to this point, I'm not so sure that's true, but that's what she said.

SANCHEZ: That's why I ask. Judge Jeff Swartz, thanks so much for the time and perspective. I appreciate it.

SWARTZ: Nice to see you, Boris. Have a good day.

SANCHEZ: Of course, you, too. So we're getting a new look at the man accused of killing conservative

activist Charlie Kirk. What happened during the suspect's first in- person court appearance next.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Happening now, the man accused of assassinating right-wing political activist Charlie Kirk is making his first in-person court appearance. Tyler Robinson is attending a review hearing in Utah, and this is the first time that he's been seen outside a Utah jail or that security camera footage from the day of the September shooting.

CNN's Nick Watt has been watching these proceedings. Nick, update us on what's happening.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, as you just saw, Tyler Robinson is wearing a blue shirt, a striped tie. He is not wearing prison overalls because his defense team petitioned the judge to say, listen, we don't want the jury or the public to be prejudiced by seeing him shackled and in those prison overalls. So he is allowed to wear those clothes.

He does have one hand shackled, his left hand and his right hand free so he can take notes. His mom, his dad, his brother are also in the court today. And Tyler Robinson looks pretty relaxed for a guy potentially facing the death penalty, whispering, chatting to his defense lawyer, who you see their lead defense lawyer with her back to us.

They are now in a closed session, have been for over an hour discussing what needs to be redacted from audio files and transcripts of two prior private hearings. So they've gone back behind closed doors. They're going to be talking about security.

They're going to be talking about stuff that they do not want the public to know. Now, in court, lawyers, Robinson, obviously lawyers for the state and also lawyers for the ...

END