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Trump Doubles Down on Calls for GOP to Nationalize Elections; Fulton County Sues Over FBI Seizure of 2020 Election Ballots; Sheriff Probes Ransom Notes in Search for Nancy Guthrie. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 04, 2026 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Election officials in Fulton County, Georgia are stepping up their fight with the Trump administration. Now filing a lawsuit to force the return of hundreds of boxes of 2020 election materials seized by the FBI. President Trump has repeatedly tried to cast doubt on the integrity of Georgia's election process since he lost the state to Joe Biden back in 2020.

There are growing concerns now that the FBI's raid last week could be linked to Trump's broader effort to nationalize future elections, something he recently defended. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway. Take a look at Detroit, take a look at Pennsylvania, take a look at Philadelphia, you go take a look at Atlanta, look at some of the places that are horrible corruption on elections, and the federal government should not allow that.

The federal government should get involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:00]

SANCHEZ: We're joined now by Ken Block. Back in 2020 he was hired by the Trump campaign to look for voter fraud. He's also the president of Simpatico Software Systems, the author of the book "Disproven," a book specifically written on this subject and his effort. Ken, thanks so much for being with us.

What's your reaction to Trump talking about a federal government takeover of voting?

KEN BLOCK, HIRED BY TRUMP CAMPAIGN TO LOOK FOR VOTER FRAUD IN 2020: It's remarkable because not all that long ago, a couple of years ago, Republicans were adamantly against any effort to federalize our elections. States' rights was the big mantra and that's what Republicans believed. Democrats were more open to the idea at the time. Now I'm sure they're completely opposed because of the political nature of things. What I'm worried about here is the politics of elections. Elections shouldn't be political in terms of how they're conducted.

For our democracy to be successful, they need to be transparent, they need to be fair and right now we're turned upside down and we see both Democrats and Republicans racing to rig our elections by gerrymandering their states. We're moving in the exact opposite direction of where we should be going.

SANCHEZ: What about any evidence during your examination of the 2020 election, any evidence at all in Georgia, specifically in Fulton County, that would have led to the seizure that we just saw? Did you come across anything that gave you the impression that this needs more investigation, this needs the FBI to look at it?

BLOCK: So let me start with a general statement. The Trump campaign in 2020 hired me to look for evidence of voter fraud and they asked me to review about 20 different claims of voter fraud that came into the campaign from everywhere around the world apparently. Every one of the 20 claims they asked me to evaluate, I was able to show that they were false, and we did find small amounts of voter fraud, but never did we find enough voter fraud to have been able to change the outcome of any of the swing state elections in 2020.

Now in Georgia, I have yet to see -- and there have been dozens and dozens and dozens of claims, allegations of fraud everywhere from Rudy Giuliani defaming Ruby Freeman, lying about her alleged fraudulent activity which ruined him financially. We've had individuals do data analytics claiming to have found fraud. And in legislative hearings they were humiliated when legislators asked questions and were able to show that the analyses were false.

There's been nothing but allegations that I've been able to see so far and nothing that's borne any fruit. I wonder when we're going to move on from this.

SANCHEZ: Well you write in your findings regarding 2020 that they were communicated directly to the White House Chief of Staff shortly after that election. That was Mark Meadows at the time. Did you ever receive confirmation that President Trump himself reviewed your findings, that he was briefed on them, that he's aware that what he's saying is false?

BLOCK: So I don't know if Meadows communicated my findings into the Oval Office. A second company was also hired at the same time mine was to look for evidence of voter fraud. They had the misfortune of going into the Oval Office to communicate their findings directly and those findings were that they could not find any evidence of voter fraud.

SANCHEZ: The misfortune, that's a funny way to put it. Looking forward, you did mention having found some small instances of fraud, not enough for it to swing any of the elections. Did you find vulnerabilities that would lead you to believe that some kind of fraud is possible in the future, that something needs to be done to secure future elections?

BLOCK: Absolutely, and a good positive role for the federal government to play is to help the states identify when an individual moves from one place to another. One of the big weaknesses in the way we conduct our elections, where each state is responsible for its own elections and very often in each state, each county is responsible for running the election inside that state. What happens is when you move from state A to state B, oftentimes neither state is aware that the move had happened and the old address remains an active voter registration.

Every once in a while, we see somebody in this circumstance vote in both places.

[15:40:00]

So a very legitimate purpose for the federal government to step in and do something would be to help the states create a data repository for all the voter registrations and help all the states identify where the active voter registration should be.

Some states have a hard problem identifying when someone has died because they don't have all of the data they need in the voter registration database to do that. Again, a place where federal data can actually help states better clean their rolls and move forward, not for political gain, but to help states clean up their data.

SANCHEZ: Ken, one final question, a claim that frequently comes from the president and folks in his orbit who continue peddling these falsehoods about the 2020 election. Did you find any evidence that a significant number of non-citizens voted in 2020?

BLOCK: No, and nobody could because access to the data to determine who's a citizen and who is not, I believe is still, or certainly at the time, nobody was able to use that data legally for that purpose. I don't know, there has been talk of trying to make that data available for the purpose of voting, but I'm not familiar with whether that's been done or not.

SANCHEZ: Ken Block, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. We appreciate your time.

BLOCK: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: So it is day four of the search for Savannah Guthrie's 84- year-old mother and still no suspects have been identified by police. The former deputy director of the FBI joins us to discuss the case when we come back.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Investigators in Arizona are looking into whether some purported ransom notes are related to the suspected kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of NBC anchor Savannah Guthrie, who vanished nearly four days ago. Investigators have not confirmed whether the two notes are legitimate.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: They were sent not to the family, but to at least three media outlets. The Pima County sheriff says his investigators are treating the notes like any other piece of evidence.

Let's talk about that and the case with CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe. He served as deputy director of the FBI. These potential ransom notes, Andy -- and we need to use that word -- I just wonder what you make of them as they are seeking millions of dollars in Bitcoin for Nancy Guthrie's safe return.

ANDY MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So it's not uncommon at all for investigators in a kidnapping or an abduction to get multiple ransom demands from people who are not authentically the abductor. And so investigators have to go through a process where they essentially have to vet these demands. You know, superficially, you could rule them out by the simple language that they're using.

If they're referencing facts that you know to be false, that's a key that this is not someone who actually has the abductor's knowledge of the crime scene. If you can't rule them out on that basis, the next level is you start interacting with them. No law enforcement team would ever advise a victim's family to think about complying with a ransom demand until they had received proof of life from that purported abductor.

So that's another kind of level in the process of vetting whether or not this person is authentic and whether or not they have the ability to return the victim.

SANCHEZ: The other detail that was revealed today is that her pacemaker last connected to her iPhone, which was left inside the home at about 2 a.m. What does that mean to you?

MCCABE: Another really kind of fascinating development, one that tells us that what likely happened there was that her pacemaker, which communicates through Bluetooth with both the iPhone -- with her phone and also her watch, her Apple watch, likely she was taken far enough away from those devices that the connection cut off. You know, if you leave your phone in your house and you walk too far away with your AirPods on, eventually they cut off. That could give us an indication of the moment that she was taken from the home.

So that's likely how investigators are looking at that now.

KEILAR: And what questions do you have about cameras that were at the home?

MCCABE: You know, as an investigator and having been through kind of crisis situations like this before, I know at least as of this time yesterday, the sheriff was telling us that they had not yet received the assistance they'd requested from the private company that maintains the access to those recordings. And that to me is absolutely unacceptable. KEILAR: Can I tell you, he also said -- he said they're bending over backwards, or he said at least one proprietor was. But what does that tell you then? Where is that bottleneck?

MCCABE: That's, first of all, that's not a thing. There is no more exigent circumstance in the law enforcement world than trying to recover somebody who has been abducted. That is the most time-urgent emergency you're ever going to have, right?

And there are ways to go to these companies with appropriate legal process that demands immediate cooperation, forthwith, as it's usually stated in the, in the warrant or the subpoena, whatever it is you're using. So, you know, I would have had investigators at those companies making a very strong demand that they comply immediately, like literally put the stuff in my folks' hands before they walk out the door.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned how time is such a complicating factor. On top of that, you have health considerations with her medications that she needs.

MCCABE: That's right.

SANCHEZ: How does that complicate the process?

MCCABE: It only makes it worse, right? So every -- we know that from all sorts of research and interviews that we've done with people who have been held, either abducted or taken prisoner overseas, what have you, we know that the situation of being detained in that way, unlawfully detained, imposes enormous stress on the person psychologically, mentally, but particularly physically. It could be you might not have access to food and water in the ways that you need.

Now it might not be able to rest. You might not be able to, you know, be in an uncomfortable environment. All of those things are magnified in the case of a woman who is 83, 84-years-old, and we know suffers from health complications, as it is.

So the clock is ticking even more loudly on this case than you would normally think.

KEILAR: Andrew McCabe, thank you so much. And anyone with any information in this case is asked to call 1-800-CALL-FBI.

Coming up, grass or turf, CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, answering your questions about which one is better for athletes on the field.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:00]

SANCHEZ: Football fans are getting ready to rejoice. The Seahawks and Patriots now just four days from facing off in the Superbowl.

KEILAR: And we get to eat all those wings, right? That's going to be exciting for us. And then when the teams take the field this week, they're not going to be eating wings.

They're going to be playing on grass, not turf. And that is a big deal for players because 92 percent of them say they prefer to play on actual grass. So to better understand why that is, we asked you to send in questions about grass versus turf.

CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now with some answers. All right, Sanjay, we saw your report earlier. So interesting about how the NFL is trying to make these surfaces safer, kind of more like grass so that you can get some of the, you know, effects that these players really like.

Tell us what you learned.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this is the interesting thing. You know, you have 30 football stadiums, and I didn't realize this 32 teams, half of them are using grass and half are using turf.

But as you point out the vast majority of players, I think it's because of the way that the body feels even more than the injuries after a game, they prefer grass. So what these organizations have been doing for the last several years, if not decades, is trying to make the turf more like grass. And we'll see if that can happen. By the way, to get to the point where they can actually have grass at Levi's stadium, which you were just showing, they've been growing this grass for 18 months.

You have a guy who picks out the right grass. It's a Bermuda grass. And they're going to lay down that grass and it's going to basically be there in time for the Superbowl.

But imagine that process. It's a huge process to get that all done.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that Bermuda grass. So good.

GUPTA: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Sanjay, we had viewers that sent in some questions. Sarah from Colorado is asking, "My daughter has seen a shift from playing soccer on mostly grass fields to almost all turf fields. How do rates of minor injury compare between the two surfaces?"

GUPTA: This is fascinating to me. And this was sort of in the category of the most common question we got. My kids played soccer as well.

Here's how to best answer this. I think if you look at games that are played on turf versus grass, and this is for, for youth soccer, injury rates are about the same, which was interesting because I think a lot of people expected turf. But I think what's even more interesting, if you look at practice, practice, you tended to see more injuries on grass for the youth soccer versus turf.

And the reason seems to be that the, the grass is a little bit harder to maintain. You may get divots, you may get uneven surface areas, things like that, water pooling. So really it comes down to, I think for parents making sure the surface, no matter if it's turf or grass, is well maintained, not just for games, but for practices as well.

KEILAR: That's really interesting. Mike is asking, "Are the types of injuries consistent across both types of fields?"

GUPTA: Yes, so I'll preface by saying there's a lot of data on this. As you saw from the, from the piece, AstroTurf, one of the first turfs came from the Astro Dome.

That was in the mid 1960s. So, you know, there's over 50 years of data. In the beginning, I think it was pretty clear that turf was causing more injuries than grass.

Turf's gotten better over the time. Now, overall rates of injuries are about the same, but to this question, the types of injuries are different. So lower extremity foot and ankle more common on turf, knees and hips about the same on grass or turf and all other injuries actually more common on grass.

So overall number of injuries, same, but if you zoom out on different body parts, you get a slightly different picture.

SANCHEZ: That is so interesting. Finally, Sanjay, Anna from Liberty, Missouri wants to know, "My understanding is that artificial fields in all sports are dressed with ground tire rubber. You see some particles flying up during games. Aren't rubber tires classified as a carcinogen?"

GUPTA: Yes, very valid concern. I got a chance to ask Nick Pappas who picks the fields for all these games about this issue specifically. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: What's the concern about toxicity? When I was looking in this, they said, if I touch this stuff I should wash my hands immediately.

NICK PAPPAS, NFL FIELD DIRECTOR: From our perspective, working closely with the manufacturers, working with our own specialized individuals on the NFL, NFL PA side, we don't have any concerns over toxicity right now.

There's obviously anytime you're out in the elements, there's, you know, you're within whatever's around you, but here, whether you're inside or outside, we haven't run into any concerns with toxicity from a crumb rubber perspective or any of our natural infills or the various infills that are out there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (on camera): So top line, this is crumb rubber that comes from recycled tires.

[16:00:00] Recycled tires do have carcinogens in them, so this is a valid concern, but that has not led to population-wide problems over the last several decades now.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be looking. It's important to follow up on that. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you.

And "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END