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U.S. Military Begins Blockade; Simon Kaye is Interviewed about the Strait of Hormuz Blockade; Pope Leo Responds to Trump; Poll Numbers on Trump and Pope Leo; Dispute over Golf Courses in D.C.; FISA 702 Nears Expiration. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 13, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:20]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the breaking news. The U.S. blockade in the Strait of Hormuz is set to begin in 90 minutes almost exactly. And Reuters is just reporting, this just in, that vessels in the region, tankers and whatnot, are getting a note from Central Command, U.S. CENTCOM, and this is what it says. Quote, "any vessel entering or departing the blockaded area without authorization is subject to interception, diversion and capture." So, that is what vessels are getting as they try to go in or out of the area are just warning them not to if they'll violate that.

What's the upshot of all this? Well, you can see over the shoulder, maybe, oil prices are up substantially, more than seven percent this morning overnight.

CNN's David Goldman is with us now.

Again, you know, the Strait has been more or less closed for six weeks, but some ships have been getting through. Those have been Iranian ships. So, now the U.S. is saying not even those.

DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS REPORTER: That's right. So, the reason that this is happening is because America is turning off the spigot for Iran right now. Let's be clear that the -- what CENTCOM just sent is basically saying any ship that's paying a toll to Iran, that was about $2 million a ship, or Iranian ships that had been carrying Iranian oil to mostly China, those are coming off the market right now. So, that's doing this.

Now, Iran had about 1.8 million barrels of crude that it was exporting every day. It's not a lot of crude. That's around two percent. But when you think about it, we've been losing 12 million barrels of crude every single day because of Iranians' blockade of the Strait. And so, every little drop counts. This makes a big difference and that's why oil's up seven percent.

BERMAN: A couple of weeks ago the U.S. treasury secretary was actually saying it was a good thing in a way that the Iranian oil was getting out there to the market, so there'd be more oil out there. GOLDMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Now they're shutting it down. The question is, does any oil get out at all?

GOLDMAN: Yes. Well, that is a big question.

So, in theory, yes, the American blockade will allow ships that don't have Iranian oil out. But Iran has a vote too. And Iran is saying, well, we are going to target those ships, as it has been doing.

And so, now you have, on top of the Iranian blockade, you have a U.S. blockade. I think this is going to be a big question, is anything getting out of this Strait?

BERMAN: Any sense how damaging this could be to the Iranian economy, how much they have been counting on this revenue they've been receiving?

GOLDMAN: Yes, I mean, it's about $13 billion a month that they're able to make just by getting their oil out and their supplies in. You take all of that out and now you start to wonder, OK, does this make the -- is this the straw that broke the camel's back for Iran?

BERMAN: Yes. Really, we will wait and see who blinks first here. This is fascinating. These are the maps we've been looking at here. Basically, there's been no traffic for six weeks. Any of the traffic that has been getting out, any of those little blips fully getting out, have been with the permission of Iran. What happens starting at 10 a.m. today? We're going to wait and see.

David Goldman, great to see you. Thank you very much.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me right now is Simon Kaye. He's the global director of reinsurance for NorthStandard, a multiline marine insurer, a leading provider of marine liability insurance for approximately 20 percent of the worlds shipping fleet.

Because insurance has been a huge part of this equation -- Simon, thanks for being here -- in terms of why and why not ships are even trying to make it through the Strait while this is happening. The shipping industry is massive. I'm not going to ask you to speak for all of it. But what is the reaction that you're hearing to this blockade that is now an hour and a half from supposedly setting in?

SIMON KAYE, GLOBAL DIRECTOR OF REINSURANCE, NORTHSTANDARD: I think the situation is ultimately kind of qualified by a great deal of uncertainty. And indeed in seeking to comply potentially with the new U.S. legislation, you could be in breach of the -- of the IRGC or the Iranian legislation for those ship owners that have potentially been kind of negotiating with Tehran at the moment in order to try and get safe passage, that have potentially made it through. You then find yourself in a little bit of a stalemate.

There are some interesting kind of concerns regarding how the U.S. will actually kind of invoke this particular blockade. Will they actually be boarding ships? Will they just be satellite tracking? What if cargo is potentially coming out from the Straits through the Gulf of Oman, and that cargo is potentially bound for maybe a U.S. ally? Perhaps it's going somewhere in Asia?

What -- you know, I think there's a further question too, which is, what happens if you haven't paid the toll potentially.

[08:35:04]

And it's actually been a high level governmental agreement with the Iranians and some of the fees that you've been talking about, such as this $2 million transit fee, ultimately haven't been paid, which does that change the situation? Does that mean that you're not therefore in breach of the U.S. blockade?

So, ultimately, yes, I think as you just said on the link (ph) beforehand, the whole situation is ultimately kind of filled with opacity. And it's very, very hard to tell ultimately how any of this is going to be invoked. But I think it will probably lead to a bit of a deadlock at the moment. To the extent that there's not one already.

BOLDUAN: And what does -- and as you're describing it, in all of the different cross currents that just take one shipping company that wants to get one ship through the Strait of Hormuz, now what they need to take into account, what is -- in the near term, what is this going to mean? Do you -- does it mean, do you think, more vessels, more companies are going to try to start moving product or because they don't know what's up, down, if they're going to be boarded, blockaded, seized, they're just going to be paralyzed?

KAYE: I think -- I think that last word that you used is a -- is a fair summation. I mean, shipping and insurance off the back of it looks at the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. And I think it is worth making the point that the insurance market has been able to provide cover throughout this period. It's really not a question of cover. It's a question of risk.

And to try and give your viewers some kind of -- kind of sense as to the nature of these assets and their values, a very large crude carrier has probably got a sticker price on it at the moment in -- somewhere in the region of $150 million. And a ship owner will buy two particular heads of cover for that by the physical damage cover for that ship itself, if it were, say, blown up as a result of a war risk incident and you needed to go and get a new one. And secondly, perhaps with slightly more kind of complexity around it, is the liability nature of any claims that potentially stem from a war risk (ph) incident. And that could be things that are front and center, such as illness or injury or death to crew members.

But in addition to that, it could be a pollution incident. Tat pollution from oil slicks as the result of either the fuel of the ship itself or its cargo, or potentially even wreck removals of those ships too. And you'll also buy cover up to the hull value for those particular liability claims, too.

So, let's just say you've got a VLCC. Her value is $150 million. Insurers have to go and provide cover up to $300 million to go and do that. And if you're a ship owner, you're thinking of an asset value of $150 million. In the absence of any particular certainty around all of this, it just doesn't necessarily seem, to my view at least, that it would be worthwhile running the gantlet.

And so, if it is the plan of the Trump administration to genuinely blockade the Straits, then I think that could well be the situation. And ultimately it could be a question of who blinks first. Who knows whether this is another, you know, Donald Trump tactic in order to potentially bring the Iranians back to the negotiation table. I think the situation is febrile and moves on an almost hour by hour basis at the moment.

BOLDUAN: Yes, which is -- which provides maybe the worst case scenario for all -- for all -- for everyone that you're working with and working for when they need some level of certainty that can't change from hour to hour.

Simon Kaye, great to have you on. Thank you so much for coming in. I appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: The U.S. military conducted strikes on two alleged drug trafficking boats in the Eastern Pacific. U.S. Southern Command confirmed five people were killed in the strikes, and one person survived. The military says it's killed at least 168 people and have destroyed 50 boats as part of its campaigns for what the Trump administration says is trying to curb the flow of drugs into the United States.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And it is this remarkable back and forth we want to talk about still more this morning that we've really never seen before. The president versus the pope. Pope Leo is responding today to President Trump's extraordinary attack on him. Here's the quote from President Trump just yesterday calling Pope Leo, quote, "weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy." The pope, traveling today, responded, speaking to reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO: I have no fear of neither the Trump administration nor speaking out loudly about the message of the Gospel. And that's what I believe.

I am called to know what the church is called to do. We're not politicians. We're not looking to make foreign policies policy with the same perspective that he might understand it. But I do believe that the message of the Gospel, blessed are the peacemakers, is the message that the world needs to hear today.

[08:40:05]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much for clarifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Blessed are the peacemakers, is the pope's message right now.

Joining us right now is Katie McGrady, CNN Vatican analyst and host of "The Katie McGrady Show" on SiriusXM's The Catholic Channel.

It's great to have you. Thank you so much.

How extraordinary is this moment? I mean you sit -- you see this play out throughout the day yesterday and then you wake up to seeing this and hearing the pope aboard the plane, speaking -- being asked directly to respond and speaking directly to President Trump's comments. What do you make of it?

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, it was a little surprising, of course, that the president tweeted this. I guess maybe we shouldn't be too surprised. President Trump wants fans. And Pope Leo is seeking to bring followers to Jesus. And those two things are going to conflict to a certain point.

But I think it's important to note, the holy father is not a conflicting voice. He's a contrasting voice in a conflict driven world. And it's blessed are the peacemakers in scripture. That's what he quoted this morning at his first stop when he started talking about the beatitudes. It's not blessed are the bomb droppers. And he's been very clear that this is not just a pointed criticism of the United States. It's across the spectrum. He's been calling for peace since the moment we met him.

So, my first -- what I make of it is, I'm not surprised President Trump tweeted this. He wants Pope Leo to baptize what he's doing. And the holy father's not going to do that. That's why the president made reference to the pope's brother. Is he trying to start some sort of sibling warfare here? It just -- it's not all that surprising.

I'm very pleased, however, that the holy father is saying, look, I'm not scared. This doesn't bother me. I'm going to keep on with the message that I know I've been charged to give to the world.

BOLDUAN: I -- but that one element of it, that the pope said -- went to the point of, I have no fear of the Trump administration or felt the need that he had to say -- make a statement like that, to me is just -- is extraordinary.

MCGRADY: Yes, it is. I mean you're absolutely right to say that. This is not something that happens frequently. I think a lot of the behavior that we've seen President Trump exhibit is not what we would expect of the proverbial leader of the free world, right? But to go after the pope, the American pope no less, who's not just an American pope, but the pope from America, is essentially, I think, look, this is my personal opinion here. It was almost kind of like, pay attention to me. Main character energy from the president begging the pope to look at him and say, well, I don't like you, before the pope had the chance to even more loudly proclaim what you're doing as the leader of the free world is not OK.

And I think what this signals is that the holy father is above the down and the dirt, muddy political shenanigan conversation. And he's always going to try to call us higher. The pope is trying to be the elevating voice. I mean Donald Trump said he could go into the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and never lose a supporter, but I don't think he can go after the pope online without losing some supporters, because from the right and the left people have been criticizing the way he's attacked the holy father last night. And the pope's being pretty strong in saying, I'm not going anywhere.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And what -- and add into this, Katie, one of the things that has also been something to watch and people have been seeing, and there's been a lot of reporting around as well, is just the surge of people joining the Catholic Church. I mean, I've seen it written so many different places, especially among young people right now. I mean, what is -- add that into this conversation.

MCGRADY: Yes, I've been calling it Leo fever. I mean we saw increasing numbers in the past couple of years because especially gen z are looking for stability. They're looking for community. They're looking for answers. But a pope who speaks English, a polyglot pope, he can speak in a lot of different languages, who's very straightforward in what he's saying and what he's inviting people to is attractive. And the church, which stands as kind of a bulwark in a world that is so malleable, the church provides stability. And I think in this particular moment, popes outlast presidents. The church has been around for 2,000 years. America's only 250 years old.

So, the Roman Catholic Church stands as this stalwart and people are drawn to that. And a pope being very clear is incredibly attractive, along with the community element. People are very lonely. They're attached to their phones. The church gives them a place to belong.

BOLDUAN: Katie, it's great to have you on and great to hear your perspective on this. Truly, really appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, here with us, CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

The president, the pope. From an approval standpoint, who's better positioned right now in the United States among American Catholics?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, maybe President Trump is jealous of Pope Leo the 14th because it is a blowout.

[08:45:03]

It is a blowout. And this is just the American public at large, John. Look at this. It is a blow on the net popularity rating. Pope Leo the 14th at plus 34. Look at where Donald Trump is, at minus 12. It's not even close. It's a nearly 50-point blowout amongst the American public at large. Pope Leo the 14th absolutely crushing President Trump when it comes to how popular they are, at least as of the last month. And I will note that Pope Leo was the most popular person tested by NBC News. I believe the president is making a humongous mistake going after the most popular guy in America, at least well-known guy.

BERMAN: The question is, why is this man smiling here?

How about among American Catholics?

ENTEN: Yes, that's right. There's a reason why the pope is smiling there. How about among American Catholics? President Trump is struggling with American Catholics. Look at this. Maybe this is part of the reason why he's going after the pope.

U.S. Catholics on Trump. You know, you go back to November of 2024. Look at this. President Trump crushed, crushed Kamala Harris by 20 points. But down he goes. Down he goes into the Dead Sea. Look at this, minus four points. That's a nearly 25 point switcheroo in the wrong direction. The president has been struggling with Catholics. And I must say, in my expert opinion, I'm not quite sure that going after the pope is the way to recover with Catholics.

BERMAN: And look, we were just listening to that interview with Kate right there, and the pope's stance on Iran is exactly what you would expect from a pontiff talking about war and peace here. What do Catholics in the United States, how do they feel about the military action?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, I think Pope Leo the 14th, an American, is emblematic of Catholics here in America. Just take a look here. Take a look. Net approval rating among U.S. Catholics. U.S. military action against Iran, minus ten points. Quite negative. You think that's low, though? Come over to this side of the screen. Trump on Iran. Look at this. They're even more sour on Trump, 20 points underwater.

So, the bottom line is this. The pope is emblematic of Catholics here in the United States. The pope is far more popular with the American public than Trump is here in the United States. And Trump has been struggling with Catholics here in the United States. Very much so. Losing a lot of ground, as you see right here at nearly 25 points for true. And this ain't going to help.

BERMAN: No. Again, interesting to see how long he continues this, given what these numbers show. Harry Enten, thank you very much for being here this morning.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: All right, what is fair or foul on the D.C. fairways? The battle over golf in the nation's capital. The president right in the middle of it.

And now they are running. What are these robots after and how fast will you have to be to beat them?

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[08:51:42]

BERMAN: New this morning, the golf war -- not Gulf, but golf -- in the nation's capital. A clash between longtime stewards of city courses and a president with plans of his own.

CNN's Manu Raju, our chief congressional correspondent and scratch golfer, explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE MCCARTIN, CO-FOUNDER, NATIONAL LINKS TRUST: Oh, nice.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That worked really good.

RAJU (voice over): Washington, D.C., has long been the home of three low-cost public golf courses, but now they are battling a Trump takeover.

MCCARTIN: Get in the hole. Oh.

RAJU (voice over): And fighting a president who has 16 golf courses to his name, with five more on the way.

MCCARTIN: Best of the day there.

RAJU: Yes.

MCCARTIN: That was really good.

RAJU (voice over): The impact is felt nearly everywhere, including on East Potomac's fourth hole near the Potomac River. Now a dumping ground for debris from the White House's demolished East Wing.

RAJU: Tell us about the dirt mound.

MCCARTIN: So, that is -- that's the excavated dirt from under the East Wing.

RAJU: Oh, wow.

MCCARTIN: And --

RAJU: From the demolition of the East Wing, all dumped in here?

MCCARTIN: Yes. And it started in sort of late October, early November of last year. And it's been growing continuously since then.

RAJU (voice over): Mike McCartin is a co-founder of National Links Trust, a nonprofit focused on improving golf courses.

MCCARTIN: I mean you can see it's 122. It's straight (ph) to the flag from here.

RAJU (voice over): The group had a 50-year lease to restore the courses of East Potomac, Rock Creek and Langston. MCCARTIN: I took a golf clinic here.

RAJU (voice over): But five years into the lease, Trump's interior department abruptly moved to cancel it, alleging the group was in default over unpaid rent and failing to implement capital improvements.

MCCARTIN: Oh, now you can show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.

RAJU (voice over): All being fought in federal court.

RAJU: Is there any legitimacy to that allegation?

MCCARTIN: We dispute absolutely everything associated with it.

RAJU (voice over): Trump told "The Wall Street Journal" he would renovate the courses, quote, "beautifully." The paper reported the president hopes to have a professional golf tournament in the D.C. area in the years ahead.

RAJU: Why is that not a worthy goal? Is there anything wrong with that?

MCCARTIN: I don't think on the face of it there's anything wrong with it. But at this particular site, it really poses some problems.

RAJU: Why is that?

MCCARTIN: So, first problem is, there's only about 200 acres of golf course here. And in order to host a -- like a major championship, you need at least 350 acres.

RAJU: Uh-huh. And it would costs a lot of money.

MCCARTIN: And it would cost an enormous amount of money. You would be building a ton of infrastructure that would be just for a tournament that doesn't really benefit the everyday golfer here.

RAJU: Where's your ball? Is it over her?

MCCARTIN: I think I'm over here.

RAJU: Yes.

RAJU (voice over): Renovations at the course have also come to a halt.

MCCARTIN: So, we've spent $11 million on our improvement projects across the three golf courses. It's all wasted. We stopped projects in progress that -- if we are able to restart, it's going to cost us more money than it would have if we had just kept going.

RAJU (voice over): But Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said East Potomac is in a state of, quote, total disrepair.

RAJU: What do you say to that?

MCCARTIN: I think that is totally ridiculous. We've spent five years investing in this place. He doesn't know what it looked like before we took it over, how much work we've put into it to get it to this point, and how far we can take it in the future.

[08:55:01]

And calling something that's in progress in total disrepair is kind of an insult to all of the work we've done and the direction its going.

RAJU (voice over): Amid the Trump feud, retaining employees has been the biggest challenge, but McCartin's biggest fear, losing affordable golf in the nation's capital.

RAJU: Oh.

MCCARTIN: There it is.

These are the gateways to golf for people. This is where I learned to play as a kid. And --

RAJU: This is where I learned to.

MCCARTIN: Right. Exactly.

RAJU: Now, when I started playing golf when I was, you know, now 16 years ago as an adult, I wish I started playing earlier, but I started playing here in East Potomac.

MCCARTIN: Right. Exactly. And so our stories of learning here and then growing into the game, I mean, I have a career in golf that I attribute to my exposure to the game here.

There it is.

RAJU: That felt good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Thank you for that.

All right, this morning, a major political defeat for President Trump overseas after one of his closest international allies was voted out. In a shakeup in Hungary's parliamentary election, voters ousted far right Prime Minister Viktor Orban, ending his 16 years in power. Orban conceded defeat to the opposition leader there, who promised to steer Hungary back toward the European Union. At a victory parade in Budapest, he told his supporters they have, quote, "liberated Hungary." The Trump administration had very publicly backed Viktor Orban for reelection. J.D. Vance even flew there and sat for campaign rallies with him. Clearly did not have the impact they were looking for.

Miami's skyline looks a little different this morning. In less than 20 seconds, contractors demolished an iconic landmark, the 23-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel. Officials said that it marked the largest implosion for Miami in more than a decade. The demo makes way for something even bigger, apparently a two tower, ultra luxury hotel and residential development set to be completed in 2030.

Rory McIlroy makes history at Augusta, winning the 2026 Masters. He's now just the fourth player ever to claim two straight green jackets, joining the likes of Jack Nicklaus, Nick Faldo and Tiger Woods. He had to fight for it, though. After a dominant start, McIlroy stumbled, even trailed on Sunday before rallying through the famous amen corner. I feel like we need one of those here. He was able to hold off Scottie Scheffler down the stretch, sealing the deal on the 18th hole, securing another spartan spot in golf history. And he called it incredible that his parents were able to be there to see it all happen.

In China this week, dozens of humanoid robots will be racing against humans in a half marathon. Yes, they're coming for us. Over the weekend, teams took the robots out for test runs to work through the technical glitches and safety concerns ahead of the real race come Sunday. It's going to feature more than 100 robots, some fully autonomous, others remote controlled. Last year, a human took home first place. This year, the teams are pushing the technology to see if, well, if its finally going to see that the robots are going to take us all out, J.B.

Yes.

BERMAN: I'd trip them.

BOLDUAN: Your face says it all.

BERMAN: I would trip them.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: I have enough issues like racing against humans. I don't need this crap on the course there.

BOLDUAN: Just -- guys, this is slightly triggering for J.B.

BERMAN: Yes, I don't need that. I don't need that.

By the way, when you disappear around that, that's amen corner. When you go around back there, that's amen corner.

BOLDUAN: That's amen corner. That's our amen corner.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, a critical U.S. surveillance law inching towards expiration has lawmakers at odds. This is a big deal. You hear about it every couple years. Section 702 allows intelligence agencies to monitor foreign targets overseas, but it can also capture American's communication without a warrant. Now, lawmakers must decide what to do as the law expires.

Let's get to CNN's Annie Grayer in Washington for the latest on this.

This is always such a puzzle for leadership, whichever party is in power, to piece together.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: It's always an issue. But lawmakers always end up coming together because they see the big picture importance of renewing this massive surveillance program. And right now we're told -- our colleagues Sean Lyngaas, Evan Perez and I are told that this -- that U.S. intelligence officials are preparing for major gaps in the surveillance operations because they don't know if Congress is going to be able to pass and renew this law by April 20th.

And this is a program that helps prevent terrorist attacks from happening, which is a major concern, especially as the U.S. has a very delicate ceasefire with Iran. Officials want these programs up and running as robustly as possible.

One former U.S. official told us in our reporting that, quote, "we're going to go blind for a while, and that's incredibly concerning amid a war."

And what lawmakers now have to grapple with is this April 20th deadline, how they are going to get this passed. Republicans are hoping that President Trump will get more directly involved to lobby Republican members. But right now CIA Director John Ratcliffe and Trump's senior adviser, Stephen Miller, are the ones having conversations with Republicans behind the scenes because there's a -- there's a lot of different concerns from Republicans here.

[09:00:07]

It's not just one issue. And in such a narrow majority,