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Interview with Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-WI): U.S.-Iran Talks Uncertain as End of Ceasefire Looms; Dem. Sen. Baldwin to Force 5th Vote on Trump War Powers; Most Likely House Seat Gain From Mid-Decade Redistricting; Trump to Read Bible Verse from Oval Office After Feud with Pope. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 21, 2026 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Those troubling times, perhaps pointing to the current political crisis in this country. There's lots to worry about, the King saying, and the Queen would have been quite shocked if she looked back on right now. But he's the King now, and he's taking her memory forward.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Max, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for that. Quite a day.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: This hour, the vice president set to depart for Pakistan for a second round of negotiations with Iran in a last ditch effort before the ceasefire expires. But there's this big unknown question this morning. Will the Iranians show up for the talks?

Plus, no separation between church and state. As President Trump feuds with the Pope, Trump is set to give the nation a Bible lesson from the Oval Office.

And speaking of real headlines that sound made-up, the satirical website The Onion has reached a deal to take over Alex Jones's Infowars. To do what exactly? We'll ask the CEO.

John's out today. I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: The breaking news this morning, President Trump is leveling new accusations at Iran. And we are also standing by to see Vice President J.D. Vance, possibly, who is expected to leave Washington this morning and travel to Pakistan for this potential second round of talks. Potential, I say, of those talks, because Iranian officials have repeatedly said they will not take part in them.

The president posted a short time ago, his kind of first statement of the morning, which said this, "Iran has violated the ceasefire numerous times." According to him, that ceasefire will expire tomorrow evening, but he does maintain that he believes Iran will be coming back to the negotiating table to cut a deal. He says he remains optimistic. He definitely is projecting confidence around that.

We are expecting to hear more from the president himself later this hour.

Also, this morning, the Pentagon has just announced that U.S. forces intercepted and boarded a tanker in the Indian Ocean that had been sanctioned for transporting Iranian oil, far from the Strait of Hormuz or the Gulf of Oman, which we have been focusing so squarely on.

Joining me right now to talk about this is Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin. Senator, thank you for coming in. Clearly, a lot could happen today. Unclear if negotiations will take place and what that means then for the ceasefire. Also happening, I'm learning, you are planning to force a fifth war powers vote in the Senate. Republicans have blocked it every time, Senator, why is this fifth time going to be different?

SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: You know, look, the war in Iran has been an unmitigated disaster. We've lost 13 service members. Hundreds more are injured, several, many seriously. We're spending tens of billions of dollars. And we see the price of oil, the price of fertilizer, and chaos on the rise.

I asked my Republican colleagues, what will it take for them to join us in bringing this illegal war of choice to a stop? And why I say illegal war of choice is we were not under any sort of imminent attack or threat from Iran when this war began, and therefore Congress must authorize it. When are my Republican colleagues going to stand up and do the bidding of the American people who are overwhelmingly against this conflict.

BOLDUAN: But you don't have any impression or insight in that the vote will be any different this time.

BALDWIN: Well, I think there's a lot of signs that we're seeing. First of all, my Republican colleagues are hearing from our constituents, just like I am, that they are overwhelmingly opposed to this war. Additionally, we see some cracks in the MAGA armor. We see Megyn Kelly, we see Tucker Carlson.

We see others say, hey, Mr. President, you promised us an end to foreign conflict, not new ones. And you also promised to bring costs down, not create settings where we're seeing prices increase. And so there's a lot of folks who are expressing their misgivings. I don't know what it will take before my Republican colleagues start voting with us, but I have to believe that the moment is nearing.

[08:05:00]

BOLDUAN: If this is an illegal war, as you put it, what is your plan to stop the war if the president would listen?

BALDWIN: Well, I will say that some of my colleagues on the Republican side are talking about what will happen on the 60th day. They have taken language from the War Powers resolution to mean that, at that point, there would need to be more congressional authorization. I disagree with their reading of the War Powers Act. But that said, I would welcome their joining us at that time.

You know, there is also dialogue on Capitol Hill about the affirmative necessity of proponents of this war to write an authorization of use of military force. And some have gone public saying that they are writing such an authorization right now. So there is dialogue, there is movement on Capitol Hill. Whether that will reflect in tonight's vote or whether that will take shape over the days to come, I don't know.

But I will return to that question. What will it take for my Republican colleagues to step up and be a check and a balance to this president who has engaged in an illegal war of choice?

BOLDUAN: Senator, if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed, which it effectively has shut back down by Iran. Do you want the president to extend the ceasefire? If the straight does not reopen, do you want him to extend the ceasefire?

BALDWIN: Look, I believe diplomacy is the answer. I reflect back to when we had a nuclear deal with Iran. It was entered into back in 2015. President Trump, when he took office, ripped that up. It would have given us intrusive international inspections into Iran's nuclear program.

But, again, President Trump ripped that up. I think we need to return to a place where diplomacy gives us an agreement with Iran that stops its nuclear program, that addresses its ballistic missile program, and the other issues that we have with the Iranian regime. But war is not the answer.

BOLDUAN: You will be before both of the committees that you are on, you will have RFK Jr., the Health and Human Services Secretary, testifying today and tomorrow. He's been kind of on this marathon round of hearings on Capitol Hill. Last week during testimony, he was seen as kind of changing his tone a little bit, dialing back his skepticism somewhat towards vaccines. Saying that he thought of the MMR vaccine that it was say it was safe and effective and that this vaccine was safer than getting the measles if you will.

Do you think he is less skeptical and more supportive of vaccines now? Do you think he is changing his views?

BALDWIN: You know I am highly doubtful of that. This man made his career out of skepticism around vaccines, and we have seen one of the largest measles outbreaks under his watch. Look, there are a lot of questions I have for RFK Jr. when he appears before my committees this week.

But I have to start with the misplaced priorities of this administration, whether it's the measles outbreaks, the cutting of mental health grants across this country, whether it is the slashing of basic biomedical research, they have misplaced priorities. Especially at the same time that President Trump is asking for a 40 percent increase in defense spending and a nearly 15 percent cut in overall spending in the Department of Health and Human Services.

BOLDUAN: Senator Tammy Baldwin, thank you for coming in.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right ahead. Several Americans injured. A Canadian tourist is dead after a gunman opens fire at a tourist destination outside of Mexico City. The latest on the investigation into that deadly attack.

And after more than a decade, the end of a long run. Tim Cook steps down as a CEO of Apple who will replace him and what will it mean for the future of Apple products.

Plus, Red Lobster revives the endless shrimp deal that contributed to the restaurant's bankruptcy initially. Why it's making a return with the new CEO?

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BOLDUAN: This morning, people in Virginia are voting. They're deciding on whether to approve a new congressional map there that would, if approved, heavily favor Democrats. It's the latest battle in what really has become a redistricting war from coast to coast now.

CNN's Harry Enten is running the numbers on this one. And let's take this one in the context of this coast to coast war. Like, put this in context, what is happening in Virginia.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, I mean, look, it all started back in Texas last summer, if I do recall. It feels like years ago, but it was less than a year ago. And you know what?

It's just been Democrats and Republicans going back and forth. It started in Texas, then it went to California. You had Ohio.

You had Utah. We've had North Carolina recently. But so far, the grand math is this.

Most likely to gain House seats from mid-decade redistricting currently. Look at that. They all cancel each other out at zero, about zero, neither side gaining.

[08:15:00]

But if this Virginia measure does in fact pass tonight, Democrats would be in the cat bird seat, in the driver's seat. They would have a three to four seat advantage because of redistricting.

But this is not some mammoth switcheroo in terms of talking, you know, 10, 20 seats. What we're really talking about is moving that ball just a little bit. And Democrats move it just a little bit to the other side of the field if, in fact, that measure passes tonight.

BOLDUAN: But take it a step further. What does a three seat, four seat gain mean for the balance of power? ENTEN: OK, now this is interesting. You know, I said it's just a move in the ball just a little bit down the field. But right now in politics, Kate, it's all just about getting the ball just a little bit more down the field, right? Because what does a three seat gain mean? I mean, just look at the House seat math.

The margins of GOP majority in the House post the 2024 elections was essentially two seats. That is how many seats they could lose before, in fact, losing on a party line vote. So if now all of a sudden, we're talking about in Virginia that this measure passes tonight, well, the Dems likely gain from the redistricting post Virginia would in fact be three seats plus.

So this alone would eliminate that Republican majority in the House. And that is why there's been just all this money thrown into this race, because three or four seats could mean the entire ballgame in terms of who controls the U.S. House of Representatives.

BOLDUAN: No matter what happens here, is there another round available? Like could Republicans respond if Democrats get what they want here?

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So this is where it all comes back down to.

Right. You know, I said at the beginning of this segment, all this stuff basically could cancel each other out. So let's just say that measure passes tonight in Virginia.

Could in fact Republicans gain back those three to four seats that they would lose tonight because of that redistricting measure passing? And the answer is yes, because, look, there are other GOP opportunities. Missouri right now, there's a court battle over it and then a potential ballot measure that could get them back a seat.

How about Louisiana? We're waiting on a Supreme Court decision there. That could gain Republicans back a seat.

And in Florida, where there's going to be a special session starting next week, that could be two to three seats there. So the bottom line is this. For all of the finagling, for all of these ballot measures, for all of these redrawing of the lines, the bottom line is this.

Even if that measure passes tonight in Virginia, and yes, the Democrats move that ball just a little bit down the side of the field of the Republicans, Republicans have a chance to gain back that ground. And at the end of the day, for all this finagling, it's probably not going to mean all that much in terms of the overall control for the U.S. House of Representatives, because it's more likely than not to all cancel out plus or minus a seat or two.

BOLDUAN: So much money.

ENTEN: I know. I know.

BOLDUAN: It's just, it's really all canceling each other out.

ENTEN: You can give the money to me. I would very much enjoy it. I need a few vacations.

BOLDUAN: There are so many lessons to learn here, including Harry's financials.

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Harry.

ENTEN: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: OK, coming up for us. This hour, a critical report on how Americans are spending their -- speaking of money -- spending their money, offering a look at how the war with Iran is impacting consumers.

And a stolen box truck leads police on a wild chase in Georgia. How police managed to bring this to an end.

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SIDNER: Happening today, a national faith event is set to stream a video of President Trump reading a Bible passage from the Oval Office. The White House says the video was prerecorded to play during the event called America Reads the Bible. It comes at a particularly notable time, given President Trump's ongoing criticism of Pope Leo and the backlash he has received for posting and then deleting an AI image appearing to depict -- not appearing to depict the self, it definitely depicted him as Jesus.

The president is reading Second Chronicles 7:11-22, which includes this verse. It says, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Joining me now, Father Edward Beck, a Roman Catholic priest and CNN religious contributor. Can you give us some sense of exactly what is happening here, what this particular event is?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGIOUS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it's by an organization called Christians Engaged, and it's a MAGA Christian political coalition funded by a woman named Bunni Pounds and the James Dobson Project. And what's really interesting is it's the whole idea is based on the story of Ezra and Nehemiah in the Old Testament. So in Nehemiah 8, Ezra reads the Torah aloud to the people of Israel, and it sparks a national revival.

And so the organizers think this is like the Ezra movement for America. Now, coincidentally, this Bunni Pounds has a book coming out next month about this Nehemiah revival. So this will also help sell books.

But we have nearly 500 participants, high profile people in the administration reading from the Bible for this. I mean, we're going to have Trump, Hegseth, Rubio, DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Franklin Graham. And so they're getting on board here, but I'm not really sure that they're quite clear on what they're reading.

And the verse that you mentioned that our president is reading, which we should, I think, discuss a little, is particularly intriguing, I think.

SIDNER: Give us some sense of the verse that the president is reading and how it's typically interpreted.

BECK: Well, again, it says, if my people shall humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways, then I'll heal their land. Right. I mean, that's what it says.

So God's saying, first, you humble yourself. You turn from your wickedness and then I, God, will show up. And originally it was written for people in ruins, like after the exile, they lost the temple.

[08:25:00]

And it's to remind them that national disaster is what happens when leaders refuse to humble themselves before God. So this is the verse that's handed to Donald Trump and it's called "A Blessing" by Bunni Pounds.

But the chronicler wrote it really as a warning. I think there's a significant difference there between those two readings. I mean, as you mentioned, President Trump and the Pope had a pretty difficult week last week and there was a lot of controversy.

And it doesn't seem like this particular verse might be the one that the president wants to lead with.

SIDNER: I mean, look, a lot of people are going to look at the verse that he is putting out there in the context, if they know anything about the Bible and what the context is and say, this is pretty ironic because it is asking leaders to humble themselves. And I don't think anyone would consider Donald Trump a humble person, certainly not a humble president.

I do want to ask you, though, about this big concern across the country about the separation between church and state and how unusual this may be. What are your thoughts on that?

BECK: Well, I think we've been walking a very fine line with this for a long time now, Sara. And even some of the decisions by the Supreme Court, I think, have been a little head scratching. Let's face it, that separation seems to be getting less and less and more blurred.

Aside from the separation, I was thinking for the nation, we're reading a basically Hebrew Christian book, the Old Testament and the New Testament. You know, while 60 percent of the country are Christian, I can't help but think, well, what about the Muslims? What about reading the Koran? What about the Bhagavad Gita? What about other holy books and inspirational books? And yet people who may not be Christian or Jewish are being forced to kind of think that this is the only country we have.

I mean, founded, yes, on Judeo-Christian roots, but there's a multiplicity of religions and nationalities now. And I just think when you do something like this, what about those who aren't believers at all and don't think this is the way to proceed? So I think you have to be very careful.

I think that's one of the reasons for separation of church and state, right? Because you don't want people to feel forced. They have a choice.

And yet, do they really, the way it's kind of been played out with this administration and some other ones as well?

SIDNER: Yes, I mean, and you know this, I think you've taught me this, that the separation between church and state isn't just to protect the state, to protect the government, it's also to protect the church from the sort of interference of politics. So that is just sort of -- it's all been scrambled together now. We will see how this proceeds and just what the reaction is across the country.

Father Beck, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

All right, just ahead. Will they, or won't they? President Trump says a ceasefire with Iran is set to expire tomorrow evening as Vice President Vance is about to head to Islamabad. I mean, that's going to happen any moment now. So will Iran show up after indicating they weren't?

And the consequences of the satirical -- oh, sorry -- the consequences of what happened at Sandy Hook and the fallout from that. The satirical news website, The Onion, has reached a new deal to take over Alex Jones's Infowars. We'll speak with The Onion's CEO about what their plans are.

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