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Iran Says It Seized 2 Ships After Trump Extends Ceasefire; Epstein Victims Say Other Men Abused Them; Files Raise Questions About DOJ Investigation; Critics: Epstein Files Show Fumbled Investigation Over Two Decades; Senators Grill HHS Secretary Kennedy Over Vaccines; Karoline Leavitt Speaks to Reporters Outside White House 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 22, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:44]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Truce Tensions: Iran's top negotiator says the U.S. blockade of Iranian ports violates the ceasefire, though President Trump insists it will stay in place. Ahead, what this all means for future talks.

Plus, A Blunt Warning: Fresh off a redistricting win in Virginia, House Democratic leadership has a message for Republican efforts to redraw house maps: "F around and find out." The President also reacting to those results, we'll bring that to you.

And Filling the Void: We hit the road with a cancer doctor who's traveling to meet patients where they are. Ahead, how he's highlighting the health care desert impacting rural communities. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

We start this hour with breaking news in the war with Iran. Today, Iranian forces say they seized two cargo ships in the Strait of Hormuz, just hours after President Trump extended both the ceasefire and the U.S. military's blockade on Iranian ports. The Strait standoff is halting peace negotiations. Iran says there will be no talks until the blockade ends. Let's go now live to Islamabad, Pakistan, where those officials were hoping there would be another round of face-to- face diplomacy today with CNN's Nic Robertson.

Nic, what is the latest?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, officials are not giving up that hope, but it does look pretty slender that they're going to get some kind of agreement quickly. Very significant that Iran has politically today, a lot of politicians in Iran from the President on down have said that the Strait of Hormuz remains the key issue, essentially standing between Iran and getting into talks with the United States.

And the violent action by the IRGC, just as you said, hours after President Trump announced on Truth Social, the extension of a ceasefire, does seem to be a very physical response from Iran.

It's interesting because politically what they're saying is that they didn't ever ask for a ceasefire extension, that perhaps flies slightly in the face of sort of reading what's going on behind the scenes here and some of the diplomacy that was happening here yesterday. Nevertheless, Iran's spokesman of the foreign ministry came out, and -- and one of the top-line things that the foreign ministry wanted to get across was, we have not said anything about the, the -- the extension of the ceasefire. We haven't taken a position on it. And other politicians said they didn't ask for it.

That's interesting because President Trump gave it in that post, but the thing, as you say, that he didn't give was lifting the blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. Iran is sort of setting the scene for that's what they want before they go into talks.

And the diplomacy here, yes, it's happening. We saw the Iranian ambassador here going to meet with Pakistan's Prime Minister today. Of course, we don't know what went on behind the scenes there, but it was, I think, intended for the world to see that that diplomacy is in action. Again, I come back to that point that officials here still -- still remain hopeful that they can get Iran to the -- to the talks. And that point about the talks and being here, the city still has that lockdown waiting for the talks to happen.

It's hard to see how officials here can keep that in place if they don't have a genuine belief that it can -- that they can get the talks going in the next couple of days.

SANCHEZ: Nic Robertson, live force in Islamabad. Thank you. Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's discuss the latest on the war now with Nate Swanson. He served on President Trump's Iran negotiating team last year. He is also formerly has served on the Biden National Security Council. He is now the director of the Iran Strategy Project at the Atlantic Council Scowcroft Middle East Security Initiative.

Thank you so much for joining us to talk about this. Really critical time that we're looking at.

[15:05:00]

This extension of the ceasefire happening as administration officials believe there's this kind of discord. There isn't cohesion among the Iranian military and Iranian leaders. I mean, how are you seeing how the Iranian government is functioning right now and how that's affecting negotiations?

NATE SWANSON, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT REPRESENTATIVE PREVIOUSLY ON TRUMP'S IRAN NEGOTIATING TEAM: Look, there's undoubtedly some bickering going on within the Iranian system, but I actually think it's being overplayed. You have basically a government that is new and it has multiple voices coming in, but they have one unified goal, which is to survive, right? And so, they might disagree on tactics, but the overall goal is roughly the same. And so, I think it's not the most important part of the story here.

KEILAR: Who's overplaying it?

SWANSON: The U.S. I mean, right? I mean, I think ...

KEILAR: For -- for the -- for which reason?

SWANSON: Well, a couple reasons. One, I think, you know, you can -- it buys a little more time, right, to -- to give a reason for why you have the ceasefire in general. And then, two, I think if you want the war to go on, you can say that there's, you know, total disunity in Iran. There's no one to talk to. So, I think there's a couple of reasons for this narrative.

KEILAR: The -- does the ceasefire extension without a deadline tell you the same thing?

SWANSON: I think it says that both Iran and the U.S. don't really want to go back to war, but they don't know how to get to peace. So that's my interpretation of the ceasefire without a deadline.

KEILAR: So, how do they get to peace here?

SWANSON: Yes, I -- I mean, I think there -- there's two approaches, right? I mean, the first is to reduce the scope of the talks, right? If -- if you want to just have a deal where we end the war and open up the Strait, I think that's plausible, and that's what Iran wants. Doesn't seem to be what the President wants. So, I think the option -- the second option is if he wants a bigger deals, he might have to sequence it. You know, he might be have to do things that -- one at a time, Strait first, nuke second, et cetera. So, I think that's the kind of these two options.

KEILAR: Nate, is there a way out of this where those two issues are not dealt with? Because it's very hard to see how the U.S. can make a case that they made things, even -- that they've even sort of like left it as they came in a way, if they don't handle the straight for sure, and then at least get something on nukes.

SWANSON: Definitely on the Strait. I don't think you can leave the Strait as it is right now. I mean, it just -- it doesn't work for us. It doesn't work for Iran with the blockade going on. So there has to be something on the Strait. On nukes, I mean, it's not ideal certainly, and I think from a U.S. perspective we would want, you know, to take care of the HEU and -- and stuff. But Iran is not enriching right now, so it's possible that if the President didn't want to do a deal right now, we could live with the status quo. It's a -- it's his call and I think it's a political call.

KEILAR: Who has the higher threshold for pain on -- on different fronts, economically, militarily? What do you think?

SWANSON: Iran believes they do, right? And this is the crucial part. They don't have a democracy, right? They don't have to respond to their people, and they think they can outlast of Trump. And this is essentially their war plan. It's -- it's the belief that they can in take more pain than the U.S. can take, even though it's asymmetric.

KEILAR: Was that a -- an incorrect estimate by the U.S., or did the U.S. incorrectly estimate what they could achieve in the opening days of this conflict?

SWANSON: Yes, I mean, I -- I think it's a -- both sides misunderstood each other, right? So, the U.S. thought if they could put enough pressure on Iran, both militarily economically, that Iran would capitulate. And that -- and that's not just in this war, that goes back for the entirety of the administration. And I think Iran is misunderstanding Trump a little bit. They thought if they could just withstand enough, that Trump would fold. And -- and that hasn't really happened yet. But I think their strategy is that at some point Trump will fold, the economic pain will be too high. And so, you know, that is a -- that is an impasse without a clear exit.

KEILAR: How do you see the negotiators here, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, Vice President J.D. Vance, and a lot of pressure on him? How are you seeing them as players in this?

SWANSON: I mean, they represent the President's, right? I mean, they're his closest associates and advisors. And so, I think they are ultimately just doing whatever he wants. The President's the ultimate decider here. And I think he controls the outcome of this.

KEILAR: How long do you think this goes on?

SWANSON: It goes on until either Iran or the U.S. blinks, right? So, either this scope has to change or there has to be some -- some agreement to sequence, or Iran decides that the pain is too intense that they have to change their policy. So, I think it probably for a few more weeks, potentially.

KEILAR: At least?

SWANSON: Well, hopefully ...

KEILAR: Or maybe ...

SWANSON: ... hopefully less.

KEILAR: Hopefully less. All right, Nate Swanson, thank you so much. It's great to have you, obviously. This is a critical time. It's important to get your analysis.

SWANSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: Still to come, some new questions about the Justice Department's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein investigation after a CNN review finds more than a dozen FBI interviews in which victims named the men that they allege abused them.

[15:10:03]

Plus, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy once saved RFK juniors nomination, and now the former doctor is going head-to-head with the Health Secretary and his rhetoric about vaccines. We have these important stories and more ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:14:40]

SANCHEZ: Now to a CNN investigation into the Epstein files and why apparently serious allegations against multiple men went nowhere. CNN dug through the trove of pages to find more than a dozen potentially credible FBI interviews in which victims provide vivid accounts of abuse by people who were not Jeffrey Epstein nor his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. \

But CNN found that despite the millions of documents, there is little clarity on what happened to those leads.

[15:15:08]

CNN's Kyung Lah is here with its Dean, nor his accomplice, Gillen Maxwell. But CNN found that despite the millions of documents, there is little clarity on what happened to those leads. CNN's Kyung Lah is here with the details.

And Kyung, tell us more about what you discovered.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, let's start with what the Trump administration has been saying, and fairly consistently, that there is, quote, "no credible information" that Epstein traffic to other individuals. But we dug through the DOJ's own publicly released Epstein files and found that more than a dozen times, victims told the FBI that Epstein facilitated sexual encounters with rich and powerful people in his network.

Now, some of the victims in those files say that they were raped, lent out to Epstein's friends, and trafficked. But what we can't find much evidence of in these files is further investigation after those women spoke to the FBI. And that is what has been so hard for survivors like Annie Farmer. She says she was abused when she was just 16 years old by Epstein and his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. That attorney, the attorney for Maxwell, didn't respond to a request for comment. Farmer says that there has been a lack of justice because there's just a lack of a robust investigation for numerous Epstein survivors like her. Here's what she told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNIE FARMER, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We have people that are able to make these statements. There's nothing more to see here, and we don't even know that that's true. We believe it's not true, but until they can show evidence of investigation, I think it would be very difficult to move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: And that's in part of why Farmer has joined other Epstein victims in a public push to get their voices heard. It is also something, Boris, that, as you and Brianna know, the First Lady has called for a congressional public hearing. You can find more of our detailed report on CNN.com. Boris. SANCHEZ: Kyung Lah, thank you so much for that. Anyone affected by sexual violence can reach out to the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE or visit rainn.org online to receive support via confidential chat.

Still to come, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. facing tough questions on Capitol Hill, not just from Democrats, though. What he's saying today about vaccines and whether the new CDC director, or at least the nominee, may be able to make independent decisions, next.

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[15:21:57]

KEILAR: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is getting grilled on Capitol Hill in his second and final Senate hearing of the day. Senators really zeroing in on his vaccine stance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): So, my question is a simple one. Do you still believe that one of the central tenets of the germ theory, that vaccines sharply reduce infant mortality, is quote-unquote, "simply untrue"?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: At the 80 percent mortality and chronic disease that took -- in mortalities from chronic disease that took place in the 20th century, that almost none of it was attributable vaccination, was attributable to hygiene, to sewer plants, the better water supplies, to engineering.

SANDERS: You're entitled to your view.

KENNEDY: That's not my view.

SANDERS: But that is ...

KENNEDY: That's CDC's view.

SANDERS: ... well, you're entitled to CDC's view, but according to the World Health Organization and scientists all over the world, vaccine have played -- vaccines have played an enormous role in saving lives.

KENNEDY: I don't contest that. I'm just saying, if you want to talk about what -- why disease mortalities disappeared in the 20th century, it was not vaccines.

SANDERS: Well, you are in a minority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Meg Tirrell has been listening to this ongoing hearing and all of the other ones, so many.

Meg, it isn't just progressive members, though, who have taken aim at his years of vaccine skepticism. MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. We heard a similar line of questioning from the chair of the committee, the Republican, Dr. Bill Cassidy from Louisiana, who actually picked up on that line of questioning from Senator Sanders and returned to the idea that, yes, sanitation, of course, helped improve mortality in the 20th century, but vaccines also reduce deaths from infectious diseases. Cassidy also asked RFK Jr. about how he would work with the CDC director nominee, Dr. Erica Schwartz. Take a listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): With the new CDC director, whomever -- whoever she or he is, there are currently political appointees at CDC who have worked to undermine trust and immunizations. Will the new director, whoever she is, have the right to make decisions independently of those -- of those political appointees and/or replace them, or otherwise reassign them so they cannot continue to actively undermine trust in immunizations?

KENNEDY: Your characterization of the political appointees is wrong, and the CDC director has that power.

CASSIDY: Now -- so, she will have, if she wishes to -- if she wishes to make a decision independently of them, she shall be allowed to make that decision independently? That's correct?

KENNEDY: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL: So, this has been a key question about the CDC director nominee, Dr. Erica Schwartz, because she is seen as a very solid public health choice by the scientific and medical community.

[15:25:06]

She was the Deputy Surgeon General during Trump's first term, but a key question everyone has is will she be allowed to operate with autonomy? And RFK Jr. was asked about this yesterday by Congressman Ruiz from California, who asked whether he would commit to implementing whatever vaccine guidance she issues without interference. And Kennedy said yesterday he would not make that commitment, Brianna. So, this will be something folks watch closely. And, of course, this health committee is the one that will be voting on her confirmation.

KEILAR: All right, Meg Tirrell, so much to watch there. Thank you very much.

And let's head now to the White House, where press secretary Karoline Leavitt\ is speaking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you believe to be struck on U.S. blockage in certain place?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Great questions, and I will answer them. Let's level set on where we are. As you all saw yesterday, President Trump announced an extension of the ceasefire. He's maintaining and generously offering a bit of flexibility to a regime who has been completely tarnished because of Operation Epic Fury is very -- there's obviously a lot of internal division. This is a battle between the pragmatists and the hardliners in Iran right now, and the President wants a unified response.

And so, as we await that response, there's a ceasefire with the military and kinetic strikes, but Operation Economic Fury continues. And the effective and successful naval blockade continues as well of -- of ships and vessels that are moving to and from Iranian port ports.

We are completely strangling their economy through this blockade. They're losing five hundred million dollars a day. The Kharg Island is completely full. They can't move oil in and out. They can't even pay their own people as a result of this economic leverage that President Trump has inflicted over them. So, he's satisfied with that as we await their response, and we will see. The President has not set a firm deadline to receive an Iranian proposal, unlike some of the reporting I've seen today. Ultimately, the timeline will be dictated by the Commander-in-Chief and the President United States.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: All right, we'll continue to monitor this, but this is the White House Press Secretary -- Secretary Karoline Leavitt, really emphasizing, internal division between the Iranian government and the military as she is explaining this extension of a ceasefire by President Trump. We did just speak with a former Trump administration source, former Trump administration official, who said some of this focus on this internal division may be a bit overstated as the Administration is trying to play for time and really wants to wind down this war. So, we will continue to monitor this. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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