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Eric Farnsworth is Interviewed about the Castro Indictment; Trump Speaks with Reporters; Wyland is Interviewed about his Dallas Mural. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 20, 2026 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN has learned that these criminal charges are connected to Castro's alleged role in ordering the 1996 shootdown of two civilian aircraft belonging to the Cuban American group Brothers to the Rescue.

With us now is former State Department official for Latin America, Eric Farnsworth.

Eric, great to see you this morning.

So, to what extent do you think this indictment is symbolic or does it have real consequences?

ERIC FARNSWORTH, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL FOR LATIN AMERICA: Hey, John, Happy Cuban Independence Day today.

I think it has real consequences on a couple different levels. It's part of the pressure campaign that the Trump administration has clearly been bringing against the Castro regime in Cuba, starting really with the January 3rd takedown of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, because that eliminated the lifeline of Venezuelan oil to Cuba. And now there is a real energy crisis on the island. And, in fact, that has knock-on effects throughout the economy. But it also gives the U.S. administration real authorities to go after Raul Castro in the way that they went after Nicolas Maduro and in 1989 Manuel Noriega in Panama.

So, I think that there are -- it's definitely symbolic. It definitely highlights the role that Raul Castro played in the shootdown of the Brothers to the Rescue pilots in 1996. But I think there are broader policy implications here as well.

BERMAN: All right, let's break this down into parts.

First of all, how much power and authority does Castro at age 94 have right now?

FARNSWORTH: Well, he still is really the power behind the throne. He's not the face of the regime, that's Diaz-Canel, who he turned over formal authority to some years ago. But the Castro family continues to really be the arbiters and the powerbrokers on the island. And it's not just Raul now. He's also passed that down to other

generations. And, in fact, that's why the U.S. government has been negotiating with his grandson over the last several months.

BERMAN: So, you compare this to Nicolas Maduro and Manuel Noriega. Of course, in both those instances, albeit in different ways, the United States went and got them from the countries. By this comparison, what's the likelihood that the United States will go in and get Raul Castro?

FARNSWORTH: Well, I think that's exactly right. I don't think the United States necessarily is committed to that course, but they've now opened the door to that possibility.

And look, I mean, it's the same playbook in some ways as Venezuela, opening the door to continued negotiations, but not limitless negotiations. And I think that that's the key. At some point there comes a decision where the U.S. says that's enough and we're not going to string this along any further. And this decision today, with the indictments, certainly would open the door to that scenario.

BERMAN: Do you think military action is possible in Cuba, which, of course, military action in and around Cuba has a fraught history, to say the least.

FARNSWORTH: Yes, that's exactly right. This fraught history, politics around it. But the nature of warfare has clearly changed certainly since the last time something like this might have been attempted with Cuba. And the United States has learned a lot of lessons, not just with Venezuela, but also with Iran. Frankly, what Ukraine is doing with Russia.

And the footprint of U.S. military engagement tends to be a lot lighter than it used to be. Going after leaders, not putting boots on the ground, not looking for long term occupation of any nature, but working with the elements on the ground to really force that transition. And I would anticipate, if something like that happens again, that would be the nature if there was a military activity with Cuba.

BERMAN: So, you call this part of this expected indictment, which comes probably within hours, as part of a pressure campaign against the Cuban regime. A pressure campaign to do exactly what?

FARNSWORTH: Yes, it's a great question. What's the end game here? And I think the Trump administration has made clear, they want regime change in Cuba. They want the Castros gone. At some point they want multi-party democratic elections. They want the freedom of the press, political prisoners released, those sorts of things. So long as Raul Castro continues to be the ultimate authority in Cuba, those things most likely are not going to happen. So, the pressure campaign leads to an ultimate regime change.

The question is, how do you get there? There are a lot of interim steps. And there is no Delcy Rodrguez solution in Cuba like you had in Venezuela. So, that's something that has to be considered as well. BERMAN: Eric Farnsworth, thank you so much for your expertise on this.

President Trump getting ready to leave Washington for Connecticut. Let's listen in.

All right, the president is speaking to reporters. I am not a good lip reader, however, and we are having audio issues. So, we will get that fixed or find someone better at reading lips and we will tell you what the president is saying.

All right, Tesla cybertrucks.

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[09:39:22]

BERMAN: All right, just moments ago, President Trump spoke to reporters at Joint Base Andrews. He's on his way to Connecticut to speak at the Coast Guard Academy graduation.

Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senatorship, we're doing everything. We won all the races last night. Every one of them. And we have a great candidate, I believe, in Texas. And I believe in the Texas candidate, who's Ken Paxton. I think he'll win. I think probably he'll win very substantially. And I think he'll go on to defeat a very defective candidate. A candidate that believes in six genders. And he takes it to Jesus Christ. And he's wearing a mask six months ago.

[09:40:02]

Was a guy -- anybody wearing a mask six months ago doesn't get it. And he's a vegan. He's a vegan in Texas. And you can't get elected as a vegan in Texas.

REPORTER: Did you talk to Senate leadership on the Republican side about endorsing against an incumbent?

TRUMP: I did. I did. They'll be all right with it. They want to win. I know how to win.

REPORTER: Are you worried about --

TRUMP: Some of them don't know how to win. I know how to win. I think I've proven that, haven't I?

REPORTER: Are you worried about the ballroom funding, Mr. President? There's speculation that could be --

TRUMP: No. The ballroom's being built. I'm building the ballroom. You saw it yesterday, right?

REPORTER: Yes. TRUMP: We're building a great ballroom. It's been needed. It's a very

military complex. The roof is actually a drone port. The roof of the ballroom is a drone port. And it gives great safety to everything below. It's great. We're building a really great ballroom, but it's also a military -- strong military position for our people.

REPORTER: Tell us about your call with Netanyahu.

REPORTER: Do you think Vance or Rubio did better in the press briefing where it's --

TRUMP: Do I think who?

REPORTER: Vance or Rubio did better in the press briefing (INAUDIBLE)?

TRUMP: I think the both did great. What do you want me to say, right? I think they both -- do you like that? That's pretty good though, right? I think they both did good. I watched both of them. Both very good men. Really are.

REPORTER: Did you have a call with Prime Minister Netanyahu?

TRUMP: But her husband votes against me all the time? Can you imagine.

I don't know what's with him. You better ask him what's with him? Her husband. She's married to a certain congressman. He votes against -- he likes voting against Trump. You know what happens with that? It doesn't work out well. I don't know why he does.

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you going to -- one, do you have any plans to call President Lai before you make your decision on the arms deal?

TRUMP: What?

REPORTER: Do you have any plans to call President Lai of Taiwan before you make a decision on the weapons package?

TRUMP: Well, I'll speak to him. I speak to everybody. We have that situation very well in hand. We had a great meeting with President Xi. He's a really -- it was amazing actually. It was amazing. You -- many of you were there. We'll work on that, the Taiwan problem.

REPORTER: What --

REPORTER: Is that a tanker (ph)?

REPORTER: What have you said to Prime Minister Netanyahu about Iran and how long to hold off on strikes?

TRUMP: He's fine. He'll do whatever I want him to do. He's very -- a very good man. He'll do whatever I want him to do. And he's a -- he's a great guy. To me he's a great guy. Don't forget, he was a wartime prime minister. And he's not treated right in Israel, in my opinion. I'm right now at 99 percent in Israel. I could run for prime minister. So, maybe after I do this, I'll go to Israel, run for prime minister.

At a poll this morning, I'm 99 percent. So, that's good. But, no, he's a wartime prime minister, and I just don't think they treat him well.

REPORTER: Mr. President --

(CROSS TALK)

TRUMP: I think they have a president over there that treats him very poorly.

REPORTER: You're on the same page with him on Iran?

TRUMP: Yes.

REPORTER: Mr. President, should --

REPORTER: Have you spoken to anyone about replacing Lauren Boebert on these -- after she --

TRUMP: If somebody comes along I'd look. It's a little late in the race. But if somebody comes along, I'd look certainly.

REPORTER: Mr. President --

REPORTER: Colon (ph) troops, sir.

(CROSS TALK)

REPORTER: Do you see yourself in him at all, a former reality TV star?

TRUMP: No, I'd like to see him do well. He's a character. I don't know. I don't know him. I assume he probably supports me. Does he support me?

REPORTER: I think so.

TRUMP: I think so. Yes, I heard he does. I heard he's a big MAGA person. He's doing well. I don't know if you know. You have a rigged vote out there, that's the problem. The votes are rigged. You have a really rigged vote in California. You have all the mail-in ballots, everything else. Very hard to win because the elections are very dishonest.

If we had Jesus Christ come down and count the votes, I would have won California because I do great with Hispanics. But it's a rigged vote. They send out 38 million votes. Nobody knows where they're going. Of course, they're Democrats, though, I guess. But disproportionately Democrats get many more votes. Some get eight votes. They get eight cards. And Republicans have to call in, where's my card? It's a rigged system.

One of the most, not the worst, I'll give you a list. Maybe I'll do it my list. But it's -- California is one of the most dishonest states for voting.

REPORTER: What's your message to the cadets today?

TRUMP: Just enjoy your life, you know. Enjoy it. They're great guys. It's my second time at the Coast Guard Academy. They're great guys. We like them.

You know, you don't realize how important the Coast Guard is until you have a hurricane. And I remember the big hurricane in Texas where these kids go on boats, and they're going through waves that are 20 times higher than the boat. And I say, can they really make it? I'm watching this. And they say, they find a way. But they were going into waves, these massive waves, to save people that were inside. And you don't realize it, but, boy, they are good. They are good seamen.

[09:45:01]

They are unbelievable. I wouldn't want to do it.

REPORTER: Mr. President, if you --

TRUMP: I'm a very brave person, but I wouldn't want to do it.

REPORTER: What do you make of President Xi meeting with Putin this week?

TRUMP: Well, he told me he was going to. I think it's good. I get along with both of them. But I think it's good. I don't know if the ceremony is quite as brilliant as mine. I watched. I think we topped them. I think we topped them. Good team. But no, I like -- I get along with Putin. I get along with Xi. I get along with everybody but your husband and a few others.

REPORTER: On the Iran deal, would you be open to a limited deal that just covered the Strait of Hormuz?

TRUMP: What does that mean?

REPORTER: On Iran. Just a limited deal just for a longer ceasefire?

TRUMP: Well, we'd have to open the Strait. That would open immediately. So, we're going to give this one shot. I'm in no hurry. You know, everyone's saying, oh, the midterms, I'm in a hurry. I'm in no hurry. I just, ideally, I'd like to see few people killed as opposed to a lot. We can do it either way. But I'd like to see fewer people killed.

I just wonder whether or not they have the good of the people. Because some of the things they're doing to me means they don't have the good of the people, and they have to have the good of the people. There's a lot of anger now in Iran because people are living so badly. There's a lot of foment that we haven't seen before so much. And we'll see what happens.

REPORTER: Has it taken longer than you expected it would to make a deal with Iran?

TRUMP: Well, let's put it this way, you were in Vietnam 19 years, right? You were in -- you were in Afghanistan and these other places ten years. You were in Iraq -- how long were you in Iraq? Twelve? Twelve years? You were in Korea for seven years. World War II is different. That was four years. I'm in for three months, and much of it's been ceasefire. So -- and you know what? You lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers in these various wars. In two wars, Venezuela, where we lost nobody, and here, we lost 13 people. Now, 13 people is 13 too much. But we lost 13 people. In other wars, you lost hundreds of thousands of people. So, people don't like it when you say, oh, do you know you've lost 13 -- we've lost, in two major wars, we took over Venezuela, we essentially took over Iran, and we've lost, so far, 13 people. Some other -- somebody else would have lost 100,000 people, OK. But I get a kick when I look at somebody on television. He's lost 13 people. I lost 13 people. They lost 13 people leaving an airport, Obama, 13 very good people that I got to know their families.

So, what we've done is amazing. And we have them decimated. Iran is decimated. And I mean, you're going to see things that are amazing. You're going to see a lot of amazing things over the next three years for our country. And I'd like to talk more about the economic because we have $18 trillion being spent and no country has ever had anything like that. We have car plants pouring in from Mexico, Canada. They don't want to be there. There's no reason to be there because they want to sell to our market. We have car companies and plants coming in from Germany, from South Korea, from Japan, coming in by the billions, and they're being built now. You're going to see things that nobody thought was possible.

REPORTER: Mr. President, DOJ --

TRUMP: You're going to end up saying he's the greatest president that ever lived.

Goodbye, everybody.

REPORTER: James Comey, over the weekend, Mr. President, he suggested that there's still people in your DOJ and FBI that are waiting you out, they're waiting until your administration is over to get back to work. Do you think those people are still in the DOJ and FBI?

TRUMP: I hope not. Well, if they are, we're going to seek them out. We'll seek them out. We'll get rid of them, OK, because you have, in every agency you have scum. And certainly they did in the FBI and DOJ. But Todd Blanche is doing a fantastic job. Kash is doing a very good job. So, we'll -- we will prevail.

I've been standing here a long time with you, many years, right? And they've been saying, I think it's it. I think he's troubled. Here I am. You know, we just -- it's a very constant situation. But I think you're going to find that we have great people in the FBI and we have great people at DOJ. Todd Blanche has really been doing a great job. And a lot of things to come. We have a lot of things that are coming right now. It's going to be great.

Our country is doing well. Thank you very much.

REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President. BERMAN: All right, President Trump on his way to the commencement at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy in Connecticut, speaking to reporters there, said on Iran, on negotiations, he wants to give Iran one more chance, which, of course, is something that he has said before. No other news about the status of negotiations, although he did say the United States essentially took over Iran, which would be news to people stuck in the Strait of Hormuz right now, unable to get out.

[09:50:00]

And at the end there, after speaking for ten minutes or so, at the end he said, I'd like to talk a lot more about the economic. An indication, perhaps, that his advisors are succeeding, some in pushing him to focus on economic issues, where some of his focus has been elsewhere.

We'll continue to monitor the president as he travels to Connecticut.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Backlash in Dallas. A story we started telling you about this week. There's much more to come on this now.

A beloved mural that's described as part of the fabric of the community of that Texas city is now being painted over as part of a project to celebrate this summer's FIFA World Cup. The public art is the creation of marine artist Wyland. And it is huge. Dedicated back in 1999, it spanned two sides of the building. You're looking at images of it before and now after. Eighty-two feet high, 164 feet long. The mural is one of 103 painted by Wyland, who called it a gift to the people of Dallas. That is until last week when crews started painting over it.

CNN has reached out to FIFA. Is still awaiting a response directly. But CNN affiliate WFAA got this statement from the North Texas FIFA World Cup Organizing Committee about what really is happening here. They say this. "The mural currently being installed celebrates and builds excitement for the upcoming World Cup 2026. We recognize the cultural and historical significance of Robert Wyland's Whaling Wall 82. With great respect for Wyland's legacy, a portion of the original mural will remain preserved as a tribute its lasting impact on the city." That is that.

Let's get now to the artist himself. Wyland joins us right now.

Thank you for being here.

When I saw this story, I remember we started talking about it with the team here of just, this has become a piece of the -- really a core piece of the city of Dallas and that community. And, one, it's just a piece of public art that is now painted over. I read that you didn't even know this was happening until someone sent a picture of it already in progress.

What do you think, Wyland, when you look at the images of it being painted over like this now?

WYLAND, MARINE LIFE ARTIST: Well, Kate, I appreciate it. And this is not just the wall. This is one of Dallas' most, you know, important pieces of public art and kind of started their collection of public art around the city. And, you know, it got erased without respect for its cultural significance to the community.

[09:55:04]

And at the end of the day, a fifth grader knows that you don't destroy, you know, works of art that are so personal to myself, but to the people that visit Dallas, to the world, really.

And so it's upsetting. But I was blindsided completely. And I got a text from a guy that lives near the wall and he said, I was like five or six years old when my dad took me down there in 1999 to watch you paint it. He goes, and we came every day. And I go, can you send me a picture of what they're doing? And they completely destroyed this public mural forever.

So, it's gone. And for what? You know, I like soccer. I love sports. I love the Dallas Cowboys and the Detroit Lions. I love it all. But to ruin a cultural piece of art that has the impact on people to see the big picture, which is the ocean. Only art and music can create that experience because not everybody's going to get to swim with great whales, like I do, like Dr. Sylvia Earle (ph) does, my friend.

But if they can see them depicted life size in public art, you know, they start asking questions. A lot of the questions were, why whales in Dallas? Well, I wanted to connect people in the inner city to the ocean, because all things flow to the ocean. And water connects all the people and all the countries of the world.

But my goal after I painted the first one, Kate, in Laguna Beach back in 1981, there was a writer, like yourself, that said, hey, Wyland, Gordon Grant from "The L.A. Times," he said how many of these are you going to paint? You know, this is great. I go, I'm going to paint a hundred. And I should have said ten because it took me 30 years but I finally did it. I painted my last one for the cultural Olympics as the official artist for the U.S. Olympic Team in Beijing.

And actually, the last one I did, you guys are always talking about Cuba, was in Havana. It took me ten years to get permission, but I painted my final wall in Havana for the people of Cuba. And I think it's my best one. It's Ernest Hemingway's, "The Old Man and the Sea." There it is right there. You see little Santiago.

But art is so powerful and so meaningful to these communities. Public art becomes woven into the identity of a city.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

WYLAND: And I painted these murals all over the world. So, I have millions of people -- there's the one in Atlanta -- that are watching my wall and in disbelief that this is happening. So, what we really need to do is we need to really go after these

people, like FIFA, that think -- thinks it's OK to destroy a landmark mural, you know, in art and culture. And I'm going to go after them really hard. You know, they picked the wrong artist is what I say because, you know, I have -- I have support to be able to take on an organization like FIFA and I'm not going to stop until I create a legacy for protecting public art, not only in Dallas, but throughout the U.S. If they get away with it, all public art is exposed.

BOLDUAN: Well, it is really great to meet you and have you on and hear your voice in all of this and to see. We'll continue to track where this does go. And it does create a really important conversation around public art and preserving space for it.

Wyland, the artist, not one to mess with, as he says.

It's great to meet you. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: Yes, the brush is mightier than the sword.

That is all for us. "SITUATION ROOM" up next.

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