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Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker is Interviewed about General Donahue Relinquishing Command; New Polling on Democratic Socialists; Anna Leigh Waters Talks about being the Number One Female Pickleball Player in the World. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 25, 2026 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sources telling CNN that there has been tension between the Defense Secretary's office and Donahue's command for some time.

The four-star general has served in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. He's actually the soldier that -- in that iconic photo stepping onto a C-17 at Kabul Airport, becoming the last U.S. service member to leave Afghanistan after the withdrawal.

By many in the service, Donahue is seen as a rising star in the U.S. Army, a candidate even to become an Army chief of staff. But now forced out.

Joining me right now is a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker.

A lot to discuss, Ambassador.

Hegseth has fired or sidelined many of the Army's experienced combat leaders over the last 18 months. He's the top U.S. Army commander in Europe. And big questions about why. But regardless, what do you think of the impact of this?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Yes. Well, first off, I've never heard any suggestion that General Donahue has done anything other than an outstanding job in all of his postings, but particularly as the commander of U.S. Army Europe. He's gotten very high marks for that.

Of course, it is the prerogative of the Defense Department, the Pentagon, secretary of defense, to choose who gets on what assignments, who gets promoted, and so forth. So, this is within the secretary's prerogative.

But I think it is concerning to the military generally and to people watching the military that this is now becoming a pattern. You see lots of very capable military officers not being used to their fullest extent, not getting additional command experience beyond where they are. And there's no real explanation for that. BOLDUAN: There's also, kind of wrapped up into all of this, right,

there's a NATO summit coming up. Trump's take yesterday on the NATO summit, as he had Rutte with him, is that he's only going because Turkey asked nicely and out of respect for President Erdogan. And then, Ambassador, he was asked by a reporter what he wanted from NATO allies. And the president had one very clear ask.

Let me play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just want their loyalty. We don't need their money. We don't need anything. We have the most powerful military in the world by far. But I just want loyalty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: This is definitely Trump's worldview on multiple fronts, no question. But I don't know, in hearing it yesterday, and seeing Rutte's kind of presentation with charts and graphs, I don't know, do you think NATO survives President Trump's world view?

VOLKER: Oh, absolutely. I think NATO is actually in a pretty strong position. We have increasing resources, defense spending by NATO allies, strong U.S. commitment that is not going away. I think when he says loyalty, he has one thing in mind, which is when he wanted to use airspace and sea space for getting American military forces to attack Iran from Europe, some European countries said, no. Italy and Spain, for example. Not all European countries. And there was a lot that was also done. But that was on his mind.

But overall, I think that President Trump is happy that NATO is spending more money on defense. They are buying American weaponry for Ukraine so it's no longer U.S. assistance. But it is being paid for. I think he sees that NATO allies are largely stepping up. I think his comment about only going because Erdogan called him is a bit of an exaggeration, as he is often want to do. He would probably be going anyway because, as Secretary Rutte pointed out in that meeting, he is regarded as the leader of the alliance, the leader of the free world.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

VOLKER: And I think he relishes being in that position.

BOLDUAN: I don't know if you had a chance to see this new book, regime change, about Trump term two from journalist Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. But a large part of it is --

VOLKER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: One of the big headlines from it is kind of how Trump upending world order. And they cite a two-page document that the president actually handed to them and gave to them and said it was written by a historian and it opens with a statement that Donald Trump is the most powerful man who's ever existed on the planet by far and he is willing, you know, and that he's willing to use that power and makes comparisons to Genghis Khan and Napoleon and Stalin and Mao and Hitler, though they say not making moral comparisons but just power comparisons. I don't know, what do you think of that?

VOLKER: Well, clearly, President Trump wants to think of himself as the most powerful person on the planet, that he can do things, and he wants to be seen that way by other world leaders so that he has more influence, he has more respect from them. And clearly he has tried to do various things. He snatched Maduro in just a couple of hours. That was easy. The U.S. military did a spectacular job. He thought it would be easy in Iran. Turned out not to be.

[09:35:00]

And we've been pushed back a little bit.

I think he had misread the situation with Putin, that Putin would be reasonable and accept a reasonable end to the war, when, in fact, that's not what motivates Putin at all. He wants to build the empire. And Ukraine also surprised him as being much stronger and resilient than he thought. And now I think he's actually adjusting his position a little bit because Ukraine seems to be doing better on the battlefield.

BOLDUAN: Yes. So much more to discuss with all of the conflicts that endure and the United States is now involved in abroad.

Ambassador, it's good to see you. Thank you so much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you, Kate.

Up ahead, crews jump to the rescue to save this man stuck in a ditch filled with rushing floodwaters. The dramatic, new video of that rescue, that's coming up.

And we will be tracking the breaking news, of course, out of Venezuela. Back-to-back earthquakes devastating the region. Rescue operations, as we speak, are underway for survivors who are stuck in some of these buildings that have collapsed.

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[09:40:28]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Big wins for Democratic socialists in New York City, backed by the popular Democratic socialist mayor, Zohran Mamdani. Already there are Republicans trying to tie the winners here to national Democrats. And already there are some national Democrats a little bit nervous about how their own party might be painted.

With us now, CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

Sir, good to see you.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Nice to see you.

BERMAN: So, when we talk about Democratic socialists, how are they perceived?

ENTEN: Yes. You know, I will tell you, there is a reason why Republicans nationwide are licking their chops and why there are at least some Democrats who are a little bit worried, because what is true in New York City in a Democratic primary ain't necessarily true nationwide with the general electorate.

I mean just take a look here, net favorable rating of Democratic socialists. If you look at Democrats nationwide, look at this, Democratic socialists on the positive side of the ledger at plus 17 points. This includes Democratic-leaning independents.

But look at all voters. A completely different world. Twenty-seven points underwater, Democratic Socialists of America are in the net favorable rating. So, what are we talking about? A 44-point difference here in the wrong direction when we come to Democratic Socialists of America jumping from being pretty popular among Democrats to being not popular at all among all voters.

BERMAN: What about just the word "socialist" or "socialism"? How is that doing?

ENTEN: Yes, OK. So, you know, one of the trends that we have seen is, among Democrats, socialism has become more popular over the last decade and a half. But what about the rest of the electorate? And this, I think, gives the game away right here.

OK, positive view of socialism. Among Democrats, look at this, up considerably from where we were in 2010, 50 percent to now 66 percent now. That's a jump of 16 points in a decade and a half. But look at all others. The number is the same. It was 29 percent back in 2010. It's 30 percent now. Socialism has become increasingly popular among Democrats, but it is a much tougher sell in the rest of the electorate. It's a much tougher sell among independents. And this is why Republicans actually think that there could be some electoral opportunities because of these Democratic socialists winning primaries, and why there are a number of mainstream Democrats who are going, I'm not quite sure about that.

BERMAN: OK. Getting a lot of focus here in New York City. There are a lot of people, I occasionally one of them, as a non-native New Yorker, think that New York gets disproportionate focus. Is this something that really is only a New York thing in terms of how people are paying attention?

ENTEN: No. No. This is what is so important. You know, when it comes to the popularity of Democratic socialism, that may stay in the major urban corridors. But when it comes to it being an issue that being -- people are being talked -- that are talking about, this is why I think Republicans really like what's going on here. And this is because, take a look at Google searches for the DSA, the Democratic Socialists of America, up like a rocket, up 140 percent from when Mamdani, who, of course, burst on the scene about a year ago, up 140 percent from his primary win.

And again, we're going to highlight it right here, reached an all-time high this week. More people are interested in finding out more about Democratic socialism than they ever have been in the United States of America. And given what you see in a slide like this, where you see, hey, you know what, there is -- still socialism isn't popular. And when you see, oh my goodness gracious, among all voters, it really isn't popular, the Democratic Socialists of America. That's why Republicans are saying, hey, there could be electoral opportunities here.

BERMAN: OK, there were incumbents who were felled here in New York City.

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Won by a Democratic socialist here. So, in terms of how many more incumbents might go, what are the prediction markets saying?

ENTEN: Yes. If you take a look at the Kalshi prediction market, we have already seen four incumbents, four House Democratic incumbents lose so far. How about the chance that six plus House Democratic incumbents lose their primaries in 2026? Look at this. According to Kalshi, a 66 percent chance. The highest in the 21st century, before this year, in the non-census year, was just three. We're talking about a real chance it will double that previous record.

BERMAN: That's in a primary. Fascinating to see.

Harry Enten, thank you very much.

BERMAN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: We have a lot of news this morning. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:49:03]

BOLDUAN: Maybe, just maybe, it is about to get insane once again in New York City. Not for any sporting event, though. Pooh, pooh that. It's all about Taylor Swift. There are new clues and tons of speculation that she and Travis Kelce are planning to hold their wedding at none other than Madison Square Garden over the Fourth of July weekend. The new speculation coming in the form of a permit application to shut down streets around The Garden.

CNN has confirmed the details, first reported by "The New York Times."

CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister joins us now.

OK, what are you hearing about this? And why would they choose MSG?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: OK. It's a great question. And, Kate, I understand when you hear Madison Square Garden, you could have your wedding anywhere in the world, why would you do it there? Well, it actually makes a lot of sense. And here's why.

When you are the most famous couple in the world, it's very hard to find a secure location. And I'm talking secure in terms of safety first and foremost, but also the paparazzi. If you are Taylor Swift, and even if you had a private wedding with only, let's say, 20 people and you flew to a private island, well, the second that your private jet takes off, people are going to track that and there could be drones overhead.

[09:50:11]

They want to keep the paparazzi out. And again, first and foremost, of course safety has to be top of mind. When you are that famous, there is always going to be a security threat.

Now, as you said, the latest clue is coming from a permit application. Don't you love that even Taylor Swift has to file a permit application to have her wedding in New York City. Well, it's not just any wedding, it is allegedly shutting down Madison Square Garden. What our colleague, Gloria Pazmino, has learned is that an event company that is known to plan weddings has filed for this permit application with the city of New York. This application would shut down streets. It's the same application that is used for street festivals and farmers market and now maybe a wedding or a wedding party.

Now, should this event take place, fans are speculating, is it really the wedding? Is it a giant party? Is it maybe a fan event? All the questions, Kate, are up in the air. We will see. But what we know is that a permit has been filed to shut down the streets. They say on the permit for 500 to 999 people. And I will tell you that I have heard from someone who is familiar with the invitations that were sent out earlier this year, that wedding guests were told the wedding will be July 3rd in New York City, but they were not given an exact location.

So again, lots of questions. We will see. But, you know I am one of our many resident Swifties here at CNN, so I will stay on top of it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much. Someone has to do all of the -- all of the hard work. And you will. You are an amazing reporter. I do not want that to diminish that at all.

It's great to see you. Thanks so much, Elizabeth.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you, Kate.

Major League Pickleball is heading back to Randalls Island right here in New York this week. It is the second straight year the massive tennis facility has hosted a major pickleball event. The event kicks off today, runs until Sunday. So, you know, those of us that are not going to pay $1,000 for FIFA tickets, this is a good option. With teams from around the country all vying for the top spot.

Joining me now is Anna Leigh Waters, the number one female pickleball player in the world, y'all. She also made history as the first pickleball athlete to sign with Nike.

It's really good to see you.

ANNA LEIGH WATERS, NUMBER ONE FEMALE PICKLEBALL PLAYER IN THE WORLD: Nice to see you.

SIDNER: All right, how do you become the number one champion? Like, I got to tell you, when I first learned about pickleball, it was a retired teacher who was one of my teachers.

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: And he's like, how do you not know about this? So, I always think about it as a sport that like a little older group play.

WATERS: Older.

SIDNER: And look at you here.

WATERS: I know. I felt the same way. I started playing in 2017. So, before it was like a cool thing to do.

SIDNER: Yes.

WATERS: You know, people were like, oh, you're playing an old person sport. My grandfather did teach me how to play. So, you know, little stereotypical there.

SIDNER: Oh, right. Oh, I love it.

WATERS: But, no, the sport just blew up during Covid. And I guess that's how I'm number -- I've been playing for almost nine years.

SIDNER: OK. So, what do you do as far as practicing? Like, what's the routine? Because, I got to tell you, a lot of people I know that do this also hurt themselves. There are tens of people that have their limits (ph).

WATERS: Well, a lot of -- a lot of people love to play pickleball, but they feel like they don't need to be in good shape to go out and play. And then they overexert themselves. So, it's those types of people that are always the ones getting injured, not the people who are playing pickleball professionally that are getting injured by going out and playing, you know? You hear what I'm saying?

So, yes, I, obviously, train very hard. We play about 25 weeks on tour a year. So, on the weeks off I like to rest a little bit, but definitely training hard in the gym and on the court.

SIDNER: OK, so give us a sense, for those tennis snobs who are like, pickleball is not tennis. Tennis is much --

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: What's harder, do you think?

WATERS: Oh, I think they're difficult in both ways. I've actually partnered with Andre Agassi, who's a major tennis --

SIDNER: Oh, we know who Andre Agassi is.

WATERS: Yes, you know who Andre is. We like to say there's room for both sports. And I love to play tennis. He loves to play pickleball. So, you can definitely do both. That's what I like to say.

SIDNER: Did you -- did you play with him?

WATERS: I did. In a tournament.

SIDNER: No.

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: And?

WATERS: We didn't win, but --

SIDNER: Is he any good? Because you're the top athlete.

WATERS: Oh, he's very good. He's very good, yes.

SIDNER: OK.

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: Give us some sense of just how intense this is, because to be a top athlete in anything, you know, it takes so much dedication. What's it like for you to be at the top of the game? And, by the way, the people you're describing that think they go out there and they're not going to practice, that's us. That's me, right? I just think I'm just going to do it and it's just like, fine, yes, I'm sort of athletic. And then I hurt myself.

WATERS: Which you can do. You just can't go 100 percent on the court, you know, if you feel that way.

SIDNER: Yes, you don't know me yet, but that's what I do.

WATERS: OK. OK.

SIDNER: What is your training regimen? Like, what is it? Every single day or --

WATERS: Yes, so, it is every single day. A lot of people don't know that there's professional pickleball. So, I like to preach that there is a professional side to it.

SIDNER: Yes.

WATERS: They like to go to the local parks, and they think that's the level of pickleball, but there's a higher level. And to obviously get to that level, you've got to be training a crazy amount.

So, just lots of training on the court, lots of training in the gym, trying to get stronger so I can hit the ball harder.

SIDNER: I mean, guys --

[09:55:01]

BERMAN: I tore my Achilles on the way out here.

WATERS: Oh, my gosh.

BERMAN: I did. It's, like, sorry, I limped out here.

BOLDUAN: There's a -- there's an obvious reason why we're not saying let's test our -- yes, no.

WATERS: I have a paddle here if you want to --

SIDNER: Actually she's got a paddle and a ball.

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: What would happen if I hit this? Like, can I just --

BERMAN: Go ahead. As hard as you can. Go as far as you can.

BOLDUAN: Someone else needs -- someone else needs a paddle, Sara.

WATERS: OK. Oh, OK, I'm impressed.

BOLDUAN: That was great, actually.

SIDNER: I'm just saying. See what I mean.

WATERS: Pretty good.

SIDNER: I go 100 percent.

WATERS: You have potential.

SIDNER: I almost broke all the equipment here.

BOLDUAN: Do not throw it back. Do not throw it back.

SIDNER: Are you going to -- yes, throw it back.

BERMAN: Throw it back. Go, hit this.

BOLDUAN: Go hit this, Sara.

SIDNER: OK, wait, let me see if it can do it.

BOLDUAN: And (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: You have to throw it.

SIDNER: And throwing it. I need -- I need --

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE), like, no.

SIDNER: I need tips from you to see if I'm any good. Do it. Do it. Do it.

WATERS: Oh. The hand-eye coordination. So good.

SIDNER: Oh, I smacked --

BOLDUAN: you literally (INAUDIBLE) --

SIDNER: I almost literally smashed his nose. This is why you cannot hand me props. It's a bad idea.

BOLDUAN: He's paid good money for that too. So, you really need to be careful.

SIDNER: I -- oh, wow. Good times.

BERMAN: So nice to meet you. Congratulations.

SIDNER: Thank you and congrats.

BOLDUAN: And we're sorry you had to witness all that.

WATERS: Yes.

SIDNER: I apologize.

WATERS: I can give you a lesson later if you want.

SIDNER: I will take it. I clearly need it.

BOLDUAN: She didn't tell you what the price is.

WATERS: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: "THE SITUATION ROOM" is up next.

SIDNER: You OK?

BERMAN: Yes, OK.

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