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Interview with Rep. Melanie Stansbury (D-NM): House Committee to Depose Leon Black on Epstein Non-Disclosure Agreements; Report Shows Bad Secret Service Cybersecurity Put U.S. Officials at Risk; Alyssa Thomas Suspended One Game for Fist to Caitlin Clark's Throat. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 26, 2026 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The House Oversight Committee just made a dramatic and unprecedented move in its investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. The committee issued subpoenas for billionaire Leon Black, Epstein's former friend and business associate. The lawmakers want to obtain information about the NDAs that Black is party to after he refused to answer questions about them during his voluntary interview on Capitol Hill today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY), HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: The NDAs are between him and other women. We want to know was Jeffrey Epstein involved in the NDAs. Was he involved in writing?

Was he involved in awarding funds to the women for the NDAs? What was the reason for the NDAs? We want to know everything about the NDAs.

So that's very important in our investigation. So the subpoenas were issued. We expect to see him back here in a few weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Ahead of today's Q&A session, committee chair James Comer said that Black's interview could be the most groundbreaking of the investigation. Black has mentioned numerous times in the Epstein files and other documents show that he paid Epstein $158 million between 2012 and 2017 for consulting and other services. Black is currently being sued by a woman who says that raped her.

He has denied that accusation. And today he also insisted he did not know the extent of Epstein's crimes. Black's attorney called the committee subpoenas a political stunt, going on to say quote, "The committee did not ask a single question about the legitimate payments to Epstein for professional services on tax and estate matters."

Let's discuss with a member of the House Oversight Committee who was in the room for the interview, Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury. Congresswoman, thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. What did you take away from his interview? REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-NM), OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Well, it was a very shocking moment, I have to say, as he walked out of the room. This is the first time in the Epstein investigation that we have had a witness in this case walk out in the middle of a congressional inquiry in which he had agreed to testify in front of the committee. Now, Leon Black is really at the center of this case.

There are only two men with whom Jeffrey Epstein was close, had the kinds of ties where we know hundreds of millions of dollars were flowing to Epstein and financing Epstein's criminal behavior, as well as his business ties, as well as are actually accused by women of sexual assault and abuse. And it's Les Wexner and it's Leon Black. And Leon Black appears in the files thousands of times.

Now, when he was asked about his relationships with women and these NDAs that were forced upon the women, not only did he refuse to answer questions, he abruptly decided that he had to meet with his counsel. And then the next thing we knew, he was walking out of the room.

SANCHEZ: Was there a particular question that set him off? Did he say anything as he was getting up and walking out?

STANSBURY: It was the NDAs. It was very clearly the NDAs. Now, I think it's interesting that his attorney is claiming that it was a political stunt and we didn't ask about the financial ties.

Well, we had just begun our questioning. In fact, the first 40 minutes or so inside the room where his opening statement, which he got to make his own statements about what he had his relationship with Epstein was. But we had just gotten into the meat of questions about accusers, about NDAs, about financial ties.

And we had hours of questions to ask him. So that certainly was not the plan.

SANCHEZ: About how much time was it into the testimony that he that he left?

STANSBURY: I would say it was about probably 30 minutes into the majority's questioning. So it just started.

SANCHEZ: Yes. In the middle of that interview, when Comer issues these two subpoenas about the NDAs, I wonder what you were hoping to learn from them, what you thought of the decision to issue the subpoenas?

STANSBURY: Well, I want to say I appreciate that Chairman Comer was prepared to hold clearly one of the most important people in this case accountable. He showed up. His attorneys were ready to issue subpoenas if the witness was non-cooperative.

But these should have been under oath to begin with. I mean, that's what we've been asking for. And the survivors have been asking for all along.

These witnesses should not be allowed to appear in front of the committee and just answer questions they want to. This is a congressional inquiry. But we are appreciative of the bipartisan effort to hold him accountable.

But at the end of the day, there are multiple women who have accused Leon Black of sexual assault and violent rape. And we want to get to the bottom of what happened.

[14:35:00]

If there are charges to be brought, we certainly want to bring that to light. And we need to understand the nature of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein because it was his money, the hundreds of millions of dollars that were transferred to Jeffrey Epstein that were financing Epstein's lifestyle. So whether or not he claims that he had direct knowledge of what Epstein was up to, his money was financing it.

SANCHEZ: So he's not the only witness. I'm sure that you've heard that survivors have been frustrated with in trying to get answers. And as you put it, this isn't under oath.

It's not televised. We're getting transcripts of the conversations. Do you think the committee should consider additional subpoenas against other potential witnesses?

STANSBURY: Oh, absolutely. We have a whole list of subpoenas that we would like to issue, starting with Todd Blanche, because obviously he is at the center of the cover up of the White House's handling of this case. In addition to that, Cash Patel, you know, Jay Clayton, who was named by Pam Bondi, is handling this case in SDNY.

There are other potential perpetrators that are named in the files. There are other assistants. There are other co-conspirators DOJ has named.

There's a whole list of people we would like to talk to, and they need to be in front of the committee and they need to be under oath.

SANCHEZ: Just given the political reality, it's doubtful that Chairman Comer, the ranking Republican on the committee, is going to pursue that against the administration. Are other Republicans on board?

STANSBURY: Well, we have had a bipartisan arrangement in a number of these subpoenas. That's how we were able to ultimately subpoena Pam Bondi. But it's clear that the Republicans on the committee have slow walked a lot of this investigation, we believe, in coordination with the White House and the administration.

And as so far, they have failed to bring Todd Blanche in front of the under oath. So we're demanding that they do so.

SANCHEZ: In a recent private meeting, I understand that a group of survivors pointed Comer to specific allegations from the files that they wanted further investigation on. Do you have any updates there?

STANSBURY: Well, I know that the survivors have opened up an open line of communication with Chairman Comer. And I do believe that part of why he was more prepared today to hold Leon Black accountable is because the survivors shared stories. And, you know, regardless of how Leon Black tried to paint these allegations, I think there is very strong evidence of abuse there.

And I think the survivors continuing to put pressure on Congress and on the chairman have been very, very important.

SANCHEZ: Black is now the 16th closed door interview the Oversight Committee has conducted. Where do you think this is headed in terms of prosecution? Because we heard, I think he was acting AG at the time.

Blanche say that there were not going to be any prosecutions to come out of the release of the files. Is there anything that you've seen that perhaps has changed that?

STANSBURY: Well, I think it's very clear that Todd Blanche is the front man in this cover up. And we learned through The New York Times a couple of weeks ago that the vice president himself has been convening meetings to help cover up this case. And we know that others in the administration have been meeting regularly to try to shield the president from accountability in the Epstein case.

So I'm not hopeful that this administration is going to take decisive prosecutorial action in this case. But what I do know is that in a few months there is a midterm election. And when we take back the House, when Chairman Garcia is sitting in the seat, we will be subpoenaing all of these witnesses, including the administration witnesses, and we will be holding all of them accountable.

SANCHEZ: Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you sharing what happened during the hearing.

STANSBURY: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still ahead, a government investigation finds that Secret Service agents are making serious lapses in security that are risking the lives of those they are charged with protecting. We'll walk through the missteps we've uncovered when we come back.

[14:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A new Inspector General report says bad cybersecurity practices from Secret Service agents have left their phones vulnerable to hacking. And in turn, the report adds that has risked the lives of senior U.S. officials that they're charged with protecting. The findings revive longstanding concerns about security practices at the Secret Service two years after the near assassination of President Donald Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, where insecure and faulty communications led to one of the biggest debacles in the agency's recent history.

We're joined now by CNN law enforcement analyst and former Secret Service agent Jonathan Wackrow. Jonathan, the IG report found that Secret Service employees are frequently using their personal phones instead of their government-issued phones while on protective missions, and that's creating problems here. Walk us through the kinds of risks that develop from that.

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, well, good afternoon, Brianna. And it's important to note that this Inspector General report does not say that these deficiencies that were highlighted actually caused any specific attack or compromise across any of the Secret Service government or personal systems. What it is highlighting, however, is that under certain conditions, specific patterns and practices by Secret Service personnel create this avoidable vulnerability that could expose this sensitive operational information.

The report, what it does well is it highlights that the threat out there from our foreign adversaries is not theoretical. It's a real- world condition. And so this report is really a warning not only to the Secret Service, but to all government agencies.

When it comes to protection, the operational reality is that communications are a critical part of this security infrastructure.

[14:45:00]

And if agents and officers can't rely on their government communication and have to pivot, that becomes another direct vulnerability. So my takeaway from reading this report is that agents and officers were being forced, in some circumstances, into making a less-than-ideal operational choice guided by the necessity of the mission at hand, not by any type of convenience of just using a personal phone.

KEILAR: So explain what happens if you're a Secret Service agent. Let's say you go somewhere, you're protecting a principal, you're protecting the president. You're at a summit where there are a number of representatives from different countries.

And certainly, you'd expect that there would be some people who are trying to kind of gain access, if they could, to your devices or to infiltrate it in some way. And you use your personal phone. Then you come back to the U.S. and you don't take the measures that you need to make sure that it's, I guess, fixed, or it hasn't been compromised, or you're not vulnerable. Walk us through kind of what that would open you up to moving forward.

WACKROW: So, I mean, it's a great example. Whenever a protection team, whether it's the Secret Service, a government team, or even in the private sector, goes overseas, the threat environment changes immediately. The devices that they carry, whether they're government- issued or personal, become direct targets of foreign hostile actors.

So when agents use their personal phones abroad, they lose the centralized control, the security settings that are applied to government phones, opening up this vulnerability. And what that does is in those moments, foreign adversaries are attacking at the seams digitally, and they're looking for this exact type of vulnerability. And what happens is that they get into those personal phones. They're able to potentially read messages, understand operational planning, understanding travel itineraries, timing. All of that is important. It creates significant risk in the moment, but it also lingers, right?

Because that threat remains within that device unless it's cleaned and mitigated properly upon return back to the United States. And that's what this report is really highlighting is, again, what does the Secret Service as an entity need to do? One, to prevent the utilization of those phones, and that's going to really come down to ensuring that they have the right government-issued devices that can meet the operational needs in the moment.

KEILAR: Yes, because like you said, and they've been complaining about this, they're going overseas. They actually need apps. They need -- in order to do their job, to talk to foreign counterparts, and they can't do that on their government phones.

So then they find themselves relying on something that's less secure. That is obviously not ideal here. Moving forward, just kind of broadly speaking, keeping up with technology, making sure they're doing best practices.

What does the Secret Service, what does the government need to be doing as they're looking at this kind of report?

WACKROW: Well, the Secret Service, actually, in this OIG report, they concurred with all five recommendations that were made, and that's significant. But the challenge right now is how are those recommendations going to be implemented for the Secret Service? And I know this is something they've been working on for a long time.

It's not an immediate fix, but it's something that they have been planning for and trying to work on as the threat environment that they face changes. The fixes must include tested communication platforms that allow for secure communicating within one ecosystem but also be able to meet the operational demands. And what does that include?

Image sharing with counterparts. So local law enforcement counterparts, whether domestic or foreign, being able to exchange information without being encumbered by overly secure devices. Because therein lies the security paradox.

If you make a government-issued device so secure that it basically is operating in a vacuum, then by necessity, these agents and officers are going to have to, you know, to meet the operational demands, use other devices that are going to be less secure.

KEILAR: Jonathan Wackrow, thank you so much for taking us through this. We appreciate it -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Now to some of the other headlines we're watching this hour. A shocking incident in Beijing today when a small plane crashed into the city's tallest building. This dramatic footage posted online shows the immediate aftermath. Debris falling from the 109-story tower along with the tail section of the aircraft. The registration code points to it being a single-engine propeller plane measuring some 22 feet long. Unverified flight data posted online appears to show the plane deviating sharply from its intended flight path.

Also, Volkswagen is reportedly planning to axe as many as 100,000 jobs over the next five years. The cuts would represent 15 percent of its global workforce and would coincide with the automaker's plans to close four factories in Germany.

[14:50:00]

Volkswagen is one of the world's largest automakers, but like many European car companies, it is being squeezed by U.S. tariffs and the rise of Chinese electric vehicle manufacturers.

And you're looking at a papyrus scroll that was burnt to a crisp by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and buried nearly 2,000 years ago. Thanks to AI, researchers know what some of it says. After being virtually unwrapped, flattened and scanned by AI trained to identify ink, scientists uncovered -- drumroll -- a gripping philosophical discussion of ethics, arts and human behavior. The scroll was found in a villa that's believed to have once been owned by the father-in-law of Julius Caesar. So I guess that makes sense.

Coming up, why the treatment of the WNBA's Caitlin Clark is making headlines. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:00]

SANCHEZ: Caitlin Clark, one of the WNBA's biggest stars, is once again in the headlines after becoming the target of another flagrant foul. The latest on-court incident happened on Wednesday when the Indiana Fever Guard fell to the floor while driving to the basket. You could see his player scrambled for the ball.

Phoenix Mercury forward Alyssa Thomas thrusted her fist into Clark's neck. No foul was called on the play, but the league reviewed it and they slapped Thomas with a flagrant foul and a one-game suspension. This is only the latest example of one of the league's biggest stars bearing the brunt of what critics say are cheap shots by her fellow players. CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan is among those outraged by the way that Clark has been treated.

She's the author of the book "On Her Game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports." And you wrote an op-ed describing the kind of treatment that she has faced. Just walk us through your reaction to the incident.

Why do you think she's being targeted this way?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: It's really mind-boggling, Boris. I know, by the way, she can give it as good as she can take it. You know, she is a tough person.

It's an unauthorized biography. She doesn't need me or anyone else to defend her. What we're talking about here is way beyond the pale.

Caitlin Clark has never put her fist in someone's throat. She has never kneed someone's groin, which also happened with Alyssa Thomas just a second before the fist. The issue for Caitlin Clark, she is by far the greatest economic engine the WNBA has ever had.

As you know, I've covered women's sports and men's sports, but throughout, you know, for decades, we've never seen a female team sport athlete be this popular. When she's playing, her games on TV are double the ratings or more than double than when she's not playing. It is such a significant impact that she has.

She got the charter flights for the players. The collective bargaining agreement was better because of Caitlin Clark's impact. And so when she goes out, it is so significant.

And that's, I think, why the conversation is what we're seeing.

SANCHEZ: I want to get your thoughts on how she was instrumental in helping secure more benefits for the players, especially during this last lockout and the argument between the league and the players. But before that, what is your thought on how the league reacted here, this one-game suspension of Alyssa Thomas?

BRENNAN: I don't think it's enough. I think a 10-game suspension, which would have been extraordinary, would have sent the message that I believe the WNBA wants to send, that to take out the person who is so responsible. You understand, of course, there's jealousy.

People have been there a long time, players, Boris, who say, hey, we were here first and whatever. No, the fans were not there until Caitlin Clark came. Those are facts, obviously.

In college, the lines outside of arenas to get in to watch a woman play basketball, a sentence I never thought I'd be able to say. Four million more watching Caitlin Clark's game in March Madness than watching the men. These are extraordinary numbers.

And so to me, a 10-game suspension rather than a one-game suspension would have made that statement. The league did not do that. Also, the fine, $1,000 for Alyssa Thomas, great player, veteran.

She makes $1.2 million. So that's just a slap on the wrist of something that I think is much more egregious. And that picture is going to live on for years to come.

People who don't even pay attention to the WNBA saw that and will have a negative reaction to the league and to Alyssa Thomas for a long time.

SANCHEZ: There are also questions about the effect that this is going to have on Clark. Her Fever coach, Stephanie White, mentioned there's no indication of how long she's going to be out. The injury is a minor setback, but I imagine that at some point this has to get really frustrating for someone who has experienced injuries in the past.

And as you noted, when she was hit in the groin, her groin had been injured more recently. So this has to be aggravating for Caitlin Clark.

BRENNAN: I got to know Caitlin Clark, interviewed, asked her questions. She's terrific. I wrote in the book, she's 22 going on 40 or 50.

Well, now she's 24 going on 40 or 50. The perfect person to handle all of this at this moment, obviously, 74 percent Black league, a white woman, lots of friction there. These are conversations I've had throughout on that topic as well.

The Black players is never getting the attention they deserve from the white male-dominated mainstream sports media until Caitlin Clark comes in. So they throw that into the mix, right? This story has everything.

But Caitlin Clark is mature beyond her years. But yes, she wants to play. She only missed one game in high school, sophomore year, never missed a game in college.

And now here come the injuries, only playing 13 games last year. Now we'll miss her second game of this season. Troublesome for her and terrible for the finances of the WNBA.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Some commentators are actually suggesting she should walk away from the league and perhaps go overseas. Is that something you think she might actually do?

BRENNAN: She grew up loving the WNBA, going a four-hour drive from Des Moines, Boris, up to Minnesota. Her favorite player, Maya Moore, as a kid went up and hugged Maya Moore. And Maya Moore says to this day, she goes, I can't believe of all the kids I hugged, one of them turned out to be Caitlin Clark.

So she respects the game, respects her elders ...

END