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Sir William Browder is Interviewed about the Russian Sanctions Bill; Trump Effect on American Finances; Silicon Valley Split over A.I. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 27, 2026 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:47]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, we are standing by to see if the Senate passes what is a bipartisan bill that would issue a new set of sanctions on Russia. This was a key goal of the late Senator Lindsey Graham.

With us now is Sir Bill Browder, the head of the Global Magnitsky Justice Campaign. He's also one of Vladimir Putin's most prominent international critics.

It's great to see you again.

This series of sanctions, among other things, would provide pretty steep penalties on so-called secondary oil markets. You know, countries that take in Russian oil. How significant do you think this would be if it passes?

SIR WILLIAMS BROWDER, FOUNDER AND CEO, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: It would be very significant. So, if you look at the whole situation with Russia, the big question is, how does Putin afford this war after all the sanctions we've already placed on him? And the answer is very simple. He affords this war because there's one huge loophole, and that is, he's able to sell his crude oil all over the world, get hundreds of billions of dollars from the sale of that crude oil, and then fund his military, fund his war.

And so the idea of these sanctions is to say, OK, let's go to the people who buy this oil and say, we're going to penalize you big time if you buy the oil. You can buy oil from anyone else. Just don't buy it from the Russians. And that's what this bill is all about. It closes the last remaining loophole and really puts his economy in a bind if it gets passed.

Now, having said that, there's one huge loophole within the sanctions bill that everyone should be aware of, which is, it doesn't force the U.S. to sanction these secondary buyers of the oil. It gives the president, President Trump, the ability to do that. And we don't know whether he will or he won't.

And so, if this bill gets passed, if Trump implements it, then Putin's in deep trouble. I don't think there's any question about the bill getting passed, but there is some question about whether Trump will implement it.

BERMAN: Yes, it's sort of a can not a shall or a must in the language of the bill. It's interesting because Ukrainian Leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy is coming to the United States this week and will no doubt meet with the president, I would presume, at some point. Just the difference between the dynamics of this week and, what was it, March 2025, when the president told Zelenskyy he had no cards. Well, you know, how many cars does Zelenskyy have as we sit here today?

BROWDER: Well, Zelenskyy has developed a lot of cards since that infamous meeting. The main card that he's developed is the ability to strike economic targets inside of Russia. Every day now Ukraine is hitting oil refineries, fuel depots, army installations, shadow tanker ships in various bodies of water. And he's causing Putin an immense amount of economic pain.

Now, we should not underestimate Putin's ability to retaliate. And Putin is going to probably draft up to 500,000 new soldiers. Apparently, the North Koreans are going to send in 30,000 more North Korean soldiers. He's saving up ballistic missiles to hit Ukrainian heating plants so people freeze in the winter. He's got a lot of nasty stuff up his sleeve.

[09:35:00]

But we're in a situation right now where the war is not at 50 -- I mean it's not 90/10, it's 50/50, with the Ukrainians, 50 percent hitting Russia and vice versa.

BERMAN: You said the Ukrainians are hitting Russian assets or interests in various bodies of water. You know, it's interesting because the Iranians -- the Iranians now are accusing Ukraine of hitting a vessel in the Caspian Sea. We have the Caspian Sea up. The Caspian Sea is the route where Russia and Ukraine have been engaging in all kinds of trade -- military trade over the last several years. And the Iranians are accusing Ukraine of hitting one of their vessels that was, you know, that was being used to get information or weapons back and forth there. Is this sort of a confluence of all these wars at once and in one place at this point?

BROWDER: Well, since the very beginning of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, they've been using drones from Iran. Iran has been the main drone supplier until Russia started making their own. And so, Iran is a -- is a fair target. It's -- they're -- they've been involved in this war. And whatever they're moving back and forth between Russia and Iran is absolutely a fair military target.

I mean, you know, it really is a confluence of a lot of things. You have the North Koreans involved. You have -- helping Russia. You have the Iranians involved in helping Russia. And, you know, it's kind of, using George W. Bush's language, this is the axis of evil all working together, hitting a democratic country that shouldn't be -- shouldn't have been invaded in the first place. BERMAN: Another phrase from George W. Bush was, you can judge the

nature of a man by the company he keeps. I mean, you can judge the nature of Russia by the company he keeps. If the company is Iran and North Korea, that does tell you something.

Sir William Browder, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, ahead, major security concerns here in the U.S. over China and A.I. Why top tech companies can't agree on what is safe to share.

And, no late fees, no membership cards, just free movies and '90's memories. The new trend allowing communities to make it a blockbuster night. You remember those nights, don't you? Well, some of us do, I guess. Some of us who are kind of ancient. And there's John Berman dancing. You're welcome, America.

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[09:41:53]

BERMAN: All right, today, the president heads to Michigan, where he's -- Michigan, I should say, where he is scheduled to talk about the economy. I say scheduled because sometimes he's supposed to give a speech on the economy, and he doesn't quite do it. This is one of the reasons why some suggest that his numbers on the economy aren't quite as high.

With us now is CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

If he does tout the economy --

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: How do voters feel about his performance on that subject?

ENTEN: Yes, promises made, promises broken in the minds of the American public. Because just take a look here. The reason he won back in 2024 was because the plurality of voters thought that Trump would make them financially better off, 44 percent. Thirty-eight percent said that he'd make them worse off back On october of 2024. Look at these numbers now. Oh my goodness. John's shaking his head off on the side. Now 58 percent, nearly three in five voters say that Trump is making them financially worse off. That's up like a rocket. The better off, down through the floor, into Lake Michigan. Look at that, from 44 percent to just 13 percent now saying better off. The rest say about the same.

These are absolutely devastating numbers. The issue that got Trump re- elected, now the voters absolutely turn against him.

BERMAN: He's -- they are saying they are -- he's making them worse off.

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: Just think about what this poll is actually saying there. And what do voters say about whether the economy is getting better or worse?

ENTEN: Yes, I think this is part of the picture, right? Say the U.S. economy is getting worse. Look at this. OK, back when Trump was re- elected, November of 2024, look at that, forty-two percent of Americans, less than 50, said that, in fact, the economy was getting worse. Look at that now. Again, very similar numbers. Very similar numbers. Fifty-nine percent. Fifty-nine percent say the U.S. economy is getting worse. That getting better number is down close to 20 percent.

I don't know how this works for Republicans come the midterm elections when the economy is the number one issue with inflation and three in five say it's getting worse off. And just about one in five saying that it's getting better. That's an equation that does not work out to success.

BERMAN: And I'll just tell you, if he's going to go to Michigan today and say the economy is doing great, 60 percent about say it's not.

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: And so that is a message that sometimes does not land well at all with voters.

ENTEN: Correct.

BERMAN: How does he rank historically?

ENTEN: Yes, just look at this. I mean, according to the CBS poll, worst economic net approvals at this point in term two, who takes the cake? Donald John Trump, 30 points underwater. Even worse than George W. Bush heading into those midterms back in 2006. We've spoken about it before. That comparison, simply put, does not work for Republicans.

BERMAN: Of course, the president is calling for a cut in interest rates. He's got a new chair of the Federal Reserve. What are the prediction markets saying about whether that will happen?

ENTEN: No, it won't most likely. Chance Fed cuts interest rates in July. This -- we have a meeting later this week. Less than 1 percent chance. How about this year? Nineteen percent chance according to the Kalshi prediction markets. ,

The bottom line is, the American people think the economy is getting worse. And what Trump wants to do, in fact, the prediction market those who are putting their money where their mouths are, don't think it's going to happen.

[09:45:03]

BERMAN: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, Johnny B.

BERMAN: We've got a lot of news this morning. We'll be right back.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The -- separate from the breaking news that we have been following all morning out of Seattle, there is also new video of a daring stunt at Seattle's iconic Space Needle from Friday. Two men climbed over a safety barrier on the observation deck, then jumped from the landmark and parachuted down more than 600 feet to the ground.

[09:50:04]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two guys burst out, right, and they sprint up to the window. And I'm talking like 10 seconds. Sprint all the way up to the top. Climb over. Run and do a backflip off. And I mean it was -- it was so crazy because everybody was scared at first when they ran out.

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BOLDUAN: So, police say the men, they bought tickets and entered the attraction, just like any other visitor. Investigators now are still trying to find them and say that they could face criminal trespassing charges when they do.

So, from high tech to low tech and a dose of a throwback. The trend popping up all over the place right now, people honoring the spirit of the favorite video store Blockbuster by creating what they are now calling Little Free Blockbusters in their own neighborhoods. So, this one you're looking at, this is from New York. Full of DVDs, video games, even VHS tapes. They also take donations of old DVD and VHS players for people who may not have one, which is, I feel like all of the population now. The man who started this one says that he even puts out staff picks each week like they used to do at Blockbuster.

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ANTHONY SZEWCYK, OPENED A LITTLE FREE BLOCKBUSTER: Growing up in the '90s, that was like the highlight of our Fridays. It's fun watching the people discover movies, whether it's younger kids finding a movie that they've never seen before, or older millennials finding something that they forgot about.

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BOLDUAN: Apparently, the very first one of these appeared way back in 2019, but it's really been taking off now, with an estimate there are about 200 of these free little blockbusters all over the country. Freeblockbuster.org sells set up supplies if you want to put one in your community.

Sara. SIDNER: I love that. It's like the little libraries that I've seen in

my neighborhood.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

SIDNER: I love it. Thank you so much, Kate. That was so cool.

All right, as the world of artificial intelligence rapidly grows, there is a battle dividing Silicon Valley now. On one side, major companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are pushing for tighter controls on models that could be dangerous to the public. We saw how one of OpenAI's own models went rogue during testing and hacked into another A.I. company just last week.

On the other side, companies like Microsoft and Nvidia argue open source models are essential for growth and development. According to "The New York Times," tensions are also rising over whether open source models from China should be restricted.

Joining me now is Mike Isaac, a technology correspondent for "The New York Times," who broke this story.

Give us some sense of what this battle is sort of shaping up to be and what's driving this fight.

MIKE ISAAC, TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes. So, this has actually been a real longstanding battle throughout Silicon Valley, the idea that open source software, which is essentially software that can be shared freely and doesn't cost anything to copy, should be the way to develop artificial intelligence. You know, proponents of that say that it's how you build new businesses. It's how smaller companies can compete with larger companies that are dominating.

But companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are really strongly saying, look, this technology is far too dangerous to have any companies in the world use it. And when the China argument comes into play, basically they're saying, these companies overseas can erode American supremacy in tech.

And also there's a -- there's this issue of what's called distillation, which basically means companies copying the research from frontier labs like OpenAI and Anthropic in order to build their own smaller open source models. So, it's very competitive. And depending on who you talk to, it's national security, it's the global economy. A lot of different things are at stake.

SIDNER: I mean, we just saw this moment where, you know, OpenAI had this incident, where one of their tests ended up ending very badly. I mean, they hacked into another company's A.I.

ISAAC: Yes.

SIDNER: And then you have the question about the Chinese. How are they balancing all this? And do you expect, throughout your reporting, that the government jumps in and starts trying to get a handle on this, even though one could argue we're really behind as this technology just flies forward?

ISAAC: Yes, the incident last week with OpenAI and one of their A.I. programs essentially going rogue, breaking out of its box and hacking another company, I think has really taken the entire tech industry off guard. Folks from the OpenAI and Anthropic side are saying, look, this is exactly what we've warned about. This is the type of dangerous, unpredictable nature of A.I.

And then again, we have the open source community and proponents saying, well, the only way we can rein this stuff in is by building more models and sharing (AUDIO GAP).

[09:55:06]

I think this is going to continue. We already have this morning Nvidia came out early this morning with what's called the Open Secure Software Alliance with a bunch of different companies saying that open-source software is necessary. I think exactly what you said, the government right now, Treasury, as well as Commerce, are weighing, should they intervene? What should that look like? Should there be restrictions on if American companies can use Chinese A.I. models? They are still unsure, as far as we've heard. And the companies are all lobbying Washington to kind of sway them to their side. So, I think we should watch closely this week.

SIDNER: And we will. I know you will. Thank you for your great reporting, Mike Isaac. Appreciate you coming on the show this morning from San Francisco, where it is very early this morning.

ISAAC: Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

BERMAN: I feel like we need an alliance. We need -- we need a, you know --

SIDNER: We do.

BOLDUAN: An open source alliance?

BERMAN: Any kind. I would say any kind.

SIDNER: Closed source.

BERMAN: Closed source. Any source. Just to kind of have an alliance is cool. Make t-shirts.

Thank you all so much for joining us. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "THE SITUATION ROOM" is up next.

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