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Kennedy Center Board Votes To Close After "F-ing Crazy" Trump Call; Measles-Related Deaths in Pennsylvania Spark Political Clashes; Soon: Senate Confirmation Hearing For Trump's HHS Nominees. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 16, 2026 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump jumps on a call of his handpicked Kennedy Center board and goes "f-ing crazy," according to one source. It's all over his fight to get his name on that memorial to JFK. A Democratic lawmaker says he threw a tantrum, directed at her mostly, because she sued to stop his name from appearing on the building and a judge agreed blocking that from happening for a second time. After this, the board voted to close for renovations. And now the president says unless his name is added back, the center may stay closed.

Joining me now is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

First of all, is the board breaking the court's order by closing the Kennedy Center, as they're saying right now, during renovations?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Good morning, Sara.

Let me give you a straight legal answer.

SIDNER: Yeah.

JACKSON: Maybe, but maybe not.

SIDNER: Good grief.

JACKSON: So let's unpack that. So what happens is, is that the president appoints these trustees. As we know, he took it over last February. And in appointing these trustees, what do they do? They name him the chairperson. Now the wrinkle here is that the trustees have the authority to manage, maintain and otherwise control the center. That is a very important prerogative of theirs to do what they need to do.

Now, at the same time, you have Congress that, of course, empowered this national memorial to begin with. So the issue is going to turn on what is the basis for them closing it? Are they closing it in order to flout any authority? Are they closing it because it needs emergency renovations and represents a danger to the public?

If they can establish that their management and maintenance is tethered to public safety, then it appears that they're doing it for the reasons that trustees are empowered to do. If it's because they're doing the bidding of the president -- you're not giving me my name and therefore I'm closing it -- that's without basis and that's going to otherwise be deemed unlawful.

These are all, as we know, factual questions.

[07:35:00]

SIDNER: Does the president jumping into this call and making sort of clear what his problem with all this is hurt the board's case?

JACKSON: Of course it does.

SIDNER: And the president's case, really?

JACKSON: Of course it does and so what happens -- what ends up happening here is that the courts have made very clear that because Congress was the one that established this Kennedy Center, Congress has the authority by appropriate legislation to do whatever they want with respect to name changing. You know, whatever they want to do.

Now it's interesting because what they attempted to do -- the trustees -- is to do an end-around. First, they called it the Donald J. Trump and, of course, Kennedy Center. Then they said OK, we can't do that, but we'll say, in fact, it's not the Donald Trump Center but it was renovated and restored by Donald J. Trump.

And, of course, the court said you cannot do that. If you want to change it, go to Congress and let them change it, but you unilaterally cannot make that determination. So there's that, you know, separation of powers and we'll see how it plays out.

SIDNER: And there's still an appeal that we're all waiting for to see what happens --

JACKSON: Always an appeal.

SIDNER: -- next. Always.

Joey Jackson, I do appreciate it. Thank you.

JACKSON: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is Congressman Ami Bera, a Democrat from California. Congressman, good to see you this morning.

Very quickly on the Kennedy Center here. It's closed right now. No one can go see shows there. So who wins and who loses in this standoff? REP. AMI BERA (D-CA) (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, the American public loses, right? We've got a war going on in Iran. We've got this whole AI crisis going on. And this is what the president is focused on -- getting his name, his narcissism. It's the American public that's losing out here right now.

BERMAN: So, Congressman, one of your colleagues, Al Green from Texas, submitted a motion to the floor of the House to impeach President Trump based on various immigration actions and other things. And you voted, as I understand it, to allow this to move forward -- this impeachment vote. Why?

BERA: Yeah, and I changed my vote from last December just because we've seen what's happened over the last 12 months. We've seen the president take us into an illegal war in Iran. He's failed to address the affordability crisis that so many Americans face. He's focused on getting his name on the Kennedy Center at a time when we're debating, you know, the risks of AI and the impact of AI getting out of control.

This is a president that is unchecked. I'm embarrassed by my Republican colleagues that they're unwilling to stand up to him. And I do think, yeah, the American public wants us to have a vote of confidence on the president, and I think you'll see that in the 2026 midterms.

BERMAN: Well, hang on for a second here because this is an impeachment vote and not addressing the affordability crisis and perhaps trying to get his name on the Kennedy Center. Is there a high crime and misdemeanor there?

BERA: You know, I think taking us to war -- in -- yeah, when Congress -- we voted again last night that we did not authorize this war. We think this is an illegal action. I do think we should build that case. Now, again, this vote did not move forward, so there's not an impeachment vote.

But I do think if we get the majority in Congress, you will start to see the various committees opening up investigations, looking into corruption, looking into self-dealing, whether that leads to impeachment or whether we just build a case for the American public to see the corrupt nature of this administration. I think you will see that in the next Congress, assuming Democrats get the majority.

BERMAN: Well, oversight is one thing, impeachment is another. And you keep saying you will see this going forward in kind of a passive tense there.

Do you want to see that? Do you want to see repeated impeachment votes of President Trump. Is that something the American people can expect from you to support impeachment starting next January?

BERA: Yeah, if we're in the majority, I would support the various committees opening up hearings, looking into corruption, building a case, building that case to see if there are high crimes and misdemeanors. I don't think it's beneficial to the country if we have an impeachment vote that doesn't lead to conviction. Again, do I think the president's committed impeachable offenses? Yes.

Do I think we have to build the case and move that forward and get the American people on our side? Yes.

BERMAN: What about Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth because Thomas Massie, a Republican from Kentucky, is now pushing impeachment there?

BERA: I mean, I feel the same way. I think what Secretary Hegseth is doing at the Department of Defense hollowing out seasoned career generals, folks that have served this country admirably, folks that disagree with them is making us weaker as a country. Now, is that an impeachable offense or is that just incompetence? Yeah, we'll see what happens when that vote comes to the floor.

BERMAN: Congressman, you're on the Foreign Relations Committee. The European Union -- the head of the European Union overnight suggested giving Canada associate membership to the European Union. Now, last time I checked, Canada is not in Europe -- that just in.

[07:40:10]

But what does it tell you about the U.S. relationship with Canada and where Canada is now looking that the EU is now looking to include them, at least in some way?

BERA: I mean, it tells us what President Trump has done in terms of alienating some of our closest friends and allies, disrupting the transatlantic relationship, which for over 80 years has served not just the United States and Europe, but the entire world incredibly well. What he's done alienating our closest friends in Canada, yeah. So I don't begrudge the Canadians looking at where their new alliances are.

What I would hope is again that we come together as Congress, rebuke the president, reassert our authorities as article one, reaffirm the transatlantic alliance, and actually move forward to restore our relationship with Canada.

BERMAN: What tariffs would you keep? What tariffs would you get rid of if you were in charge?

BERA: Look, what I would do is I would actually -- you know, you can have targeted tariffs, but these blanket across-the-board tariffs that do seem to come from retaliation doesn't really help anyone. You see the impact it's having on the American consumer and food prices, in gasoline prices. We get an incredible amount of energy from Canada. And dairy prices.

So I think we ought to go back and negotiate things. Our economy is intertwined with Canada. You know, for California, we send a lot of wine to Canada. Unfortunately, none of that wine is being exported any longer.

BERMAN: Congressman Ami Bera from California. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. I appreciate it. And you out there, if you have questions about the midterms, anything at all, you can join me, Harry Enten and Abby Phillip for something we're calling "OFFICE HOURS." That's tonight at 7:00 p.m. You can ask us questions live. We will answer them. You can actually submit your questions all day long.

What you do is you go to the link cnn.com/office hours. I'll build a sign for that so you can see it better -- cnn.com slosh -- slash office hours -- or slosh.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You should get sloshy before the office hours.

BERMAN: It will be at 7:00. The sloshing will come shortly after. But join us for this historic event tonight at 7 -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: The professor is in.

BERMAN: That's exactly right.

BOLDUAN: All right. So Pennsylvania has now reported a fourth death related to measles, leading to a new level of finger-pointing between the governor and the nation's top health official. The last time the U.S. saw this number of deaths from measles in one year, 1992. All four of these deaths this year have been in Pennsylvania, the latest a teenager who was not vaccinated against the disease.

Now these deaths are not only tragic, but also sparking a political clash, as I mentioned, between state and federal officials. The CDC has not counted any measles-related deaths for the year, saying it doesn't have enough information to connect them.

Pennsylvania's governor, though, Josh Shapiro, isn't having it, now accusing health Secretary Robert Kennedy junior of a coverup. Shapiro putting out a statement saying this in part -- saying, "It is also deeply concerning to learn that the secretary personally intervened in an otherwise administrative process to direct the CDC to not report these Pennsylvania deaths, presumably because it doesn't fit his phony narrative."

Now, Secretary Kennedy has responded, accusing Shapiro of politicizing the outbreak, saying this in his statement. "...instead of implementing a unified public health response. He [Shapiro] continues to point the finger at me and the federal government and to malign the Amish while refusing the federal assistance that might help end the outbreak."

Joining me right now is Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist. It's good to see you again, Celine. Thanks for being here.

What is known -- let's start just where we are with this fourth death. What is known about this fourth death?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, EDITOR-AT-LARGE FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, KFF HEALTH NEWS: So an 18-year-old who was not vaccinated. They appear to have died from what's called ADEM or Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis. So measles can actually call a -- cause a whole host of neurological brain problems.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GOUNDER: This is one of them.

In this case, what happens is the measles virus infection triggers an autoimmune response, meaning your immune system turns against you. In this case, it turns against the brain, and that's what caused this particular death.

BOLDUAN: What do you make of this back and forth or what does it do, do you think -- this back and forth between the Pennsylvania governor and the -- and the health secretary?

GOUNDER: Well, this really deviates from the normal way these things unfold.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

GOUNDER: So normally if you have a case of measles or a death in a particular state, the state does all of the investigation and then they report it to the CDC. The CDC's job is not to question that.

[07:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Right. They just kind of collect it and disseminate it.

GOUNDER: They collect it -- exactly.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

GOUNDER: They collect and disseminate and if the state needs help, they can ask the CDC to provide assistance.

But remember, public health powers in the United States sit at the state level. The states are in charge. And so for the CDC to be questioning this is really unprecedented that that would happen -- that the CDC would question are you guys capable of making these diagnoses and reporting this?

BOLDUAN: Yeah. I mean, what do you take -- what do you take of this -- I don't know, I guess a tragic lesson of the fact that this is -- this latest death of -- is an 18-year-old? Like, what do people need to be reminded of and what do people need to remember? And as this fight happens between state and local officials it's just important for what people should be looking out for.

GOUNDER: Yeah. You know, what we've seen this arise in non-medical exemptions. There are some people --

BOLDUAN: Right.

GOUNDER: -- for medical reasons you're immunocompromised. You're getting treatment for cancer at the time that you would normally be getting these vaccines.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

GOUNDER: Those are reasons not to get vaccinated.

But what we are seeing is the non-medical exemptions go up -- so people who just basically don't want to get vaccinated. A lot of that is called religious exemption. But if you actually look at what the pope has said, the Vatican, Jewish and Muslim clerics, even the Amish and Mennonite churches --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

GOUNDER: -- they are not opposed to vaccination. And I think it's really important to remember that the objections are really ideological, partisan -- just not wanting to be told what to do.

And that's unfortunately in an outbreak like this when you're talking about something as significant as measles -- and, you know, that's -- this is not just a fever and rash.

BOLDUAN: Right.

GOUNDER: To be objecting because you just don't want to be told what to do unfortunately is not the best idea for your own health right now.

BOLDUAN: You have kind of tried -- in order to help people understand everything better you kind of made a comparison between HIV and measles.

GOUNDER: Um-hum.

BOLDUAN: Talk to me about that.

GOUNDER: Right.

So measles infects immune cells just like HIV infects immune cells. Now HIV is an infection for life. Measles, you have it for a period of time and you get over it, but that damage to the immune system still takes time to rebuild -- to recover from -- and that can take two to three years. So now you've created this two- to three-year window of immunocompromised. Just like HIV, you end up dying from bacterial infections and all these other things afterwards --

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

GOUNDER: -- right?

Measles is the same thing actually. The most common causes of death after measles is not the initial measles infection, it's the bacterial pneumonia. It's the diarrheal illness. It's the sepsis. And that doesn't necessarily happen right away, but that's what causes the real morbidity and the deaths.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you. Thanks for being here. Obviously, this is far from over. We will continue to track this -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you so much, Kate.

OK. This morning on Capitol Hill, several of President Trump's nominees for critical roles in the Department of Health and Human Services face a confirmation hearing before the Senate.

Chris Klomp is vying to fill the role of his Deputy HHS Secretary, putting him second in command behind Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. And Dr. Nicole Saphier hopes to become the new surgeon general. She is President Trump's third nominee for the nation's top doctor post.

With us now, CNN medical correspondent Meg Tirrell here. Give us some sense of what you know about Dr. Saphier.

MEG TIRRELL CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. So as you noted, similar to the CDC situation, we are in our third nominee to try to fill this very important role, America's top doctor, the surgeon general. We know them for advisories and giving people the best possible medical information.

So Dr. Nicole Saphier is now the third person to be nominated into this role after Dr. Casey Means' nomination was pulled in April. She was really a champion of the MAHA movement, but they didn't think that she was going to get the votes in the Senate over some of her comments about vaccines. Dr. Janette Nesheiwat was the first nominee.

So Dr. Nicole Saphier is a former Fox News contributor. She was a medical contributor to the network, similar to Dr. Nesheiwat actually. She's a radiologist with Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, so a breast cancer expert. A podcast host and a founder of a supplement company which has, of course, garnered a lot of scrutiny over how that industry is regulated or not regulated and the claims that they make.

Now, interestingly, she has aligned herself with the Trump administration on many things, as one would expect for one of their nominees, but also criticized the Trump administration and particularly RFK Jr. and some of the chaos we've seen around vaccination, around messaging.

And she is worried about declining measles vaccination rates as we were just hearing about.

SIDNER: Yeah.

TIRRELL: She was actually asked about this on a Fox News podcast last September. Take a listen to what she said about that.

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DR. NICOLE SAPHIER, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL NOMINEE: We're already seeing it play out with measles. We're already seeing it with whooping cough. We have a rise in cases throughout the country and that's because of declining vaccination rates. I think that there is a legitimate conversation to be had about the current childhood vaccine recommendation schedule, specifically birth doses of hepatitis B and also some of the other recommendations.

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[07:50:10]

TIRRELL: Now what you're hearing there is her saying it is a problem that vaccination rates are declining --

SIDNER: Yeah.

TIRRELL: -- and so that kind of goes against some of the messaging we've been hearing from RFK Jr., who has often tried to downplay the seriousness of measles. But then she also is saying but we should look at certain aspects of the childhood vaccination schedule, so you can see where she is kind of straddling the line there.

SIDNER: Trying to thread the needle there.

What about Chris Klomp? You're expecting him to have an easy road or what do we know about him?

TIRRELL: Well -- so he had a hearing yesterday in front of the Senate Finance Committee.

SIDNER: Yeah.

TIRRELL: And, of course, he is nominated to be the number two at HHS, RFK Jr.'s deputy.

He has already been serving within HHS. He was the director of Medicare. He was a former health care executive. He was really instrumental in striking those TrumpRx drug pricing deals. He caught the attention of the president and really seemed to impress him.

And, of course, we heard from him yesterday in the Senate Finance Committee hearing where he was asked a lot about measles and vaccination. And what he said was unequivocally that he believes that the MMR vaccine is the best way to try to end these measles cases and bring back our elimination status. Almost a sort of tacit understanding that we probably have lost our elimination status --

SIDNER: Hmm.

TIRRELL -- although we haven't officially lost it yet.

But, of course, Democrats are going to hammer him pretty hard today in the Senate health as well. They are not the ones who vote on him. It will be Senate finance.

SIDNER: Um-hum.

TIRRELL: But a lot of these questions about what is happening with the Trump administration, particularly comes to vaccine policy.

SIDNER: Yeah, there are a lot of questions. And in Pennsylvania you're seeing the results, unfortunately, of some of the things that have been said from this administration.

Meg Tirrell, thank you so much. I do appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Fireworks launched off of a moving truck. Now police say this moment sparked a large, deadly wildfire.

And if any team is looking for an edge rusher, maybe call this cop right there. See how he tackled a fleeing suspect.

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[07:56:10]

BERMAN: All right, new video from Washington State this morning. Investigators say it was fireworks launched off of a moving truck. That's what you're seeing there. And it ultimately caused a deadly wildfire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, shoot at them! Shoot at them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't tell them who was shooting though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, (bleep). I got (bleep) in my eyes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Investigators say those fireworks ignited dry grass along the road and led to deadly fire -- the deadly fire around the Fourth of July. One person was killed, six firefighters injured, about 10,000 acres scorched. An 18-year-old was booked on multiple charges, including first-degree manslaughter.

So a Paris court has awarded Kim Kardashian one euro. She was the victim of an armed robbery back in 2016. A lawyer said that was the amount that she asked for. Now in a joint statement, Kardashian and her stylist who was present during this heist said, "Today's decision is not about the compensation but about accountability and recognition."

The robbers stole about $6 million worth of jewelry, you might remember, most of which has never been recovered. Eight defendants were found guilty and were convicted of charges including armed robbery, kidnapping, and gang association. Now, none of them returned to prison after a judge counted their time served.

So in Canada, an officer tackled a motorcyclist who had allegedly fled the scene of a crash. So you can see, you know, police ultimately caught up with him, and then that guy sort of snuck up on him. After arresting him, an officer held up his license plate, which reads, "RUN THIS." I have no idea what the significance of that is, but now you know -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: I don't -- there -- we're missing something.

BERMAN: I think it's super -- someone must know the simple code behind that --

BOLDUAN: OK.

BERMAN: -- and why we're telling you.

BOLDUAN: Let's ask Coy Wire.

BERMAN: Yes, Coy.

BOLDUAN: A former Mets star back in April -- a former Mets star back in New York and with a crushing home run that he will never forget.

CNN's Coy Wire joins us now. First, Coy, I don't know if you saw that, but was that good form for that tackle we saw from that officer?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Uh, same foot, same shoulder. We got a little more power behind it, so not bad. I would have had that left foot forward. But hey, great work by our law enforcement officers there.

Now, Kate, I'm so excited to see you this morning. I have a polar bear, I have cats, and champagne because of sports. Good to see you.

The Orioles Pete Alonso, AKA the polar bear, returning to Citi Field, the place where he first became a star with the Mets. Apparently, he still knows his way around the neighborhood. Ninth inning, Baltimore down one. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Two and zero to Pete. The pitch -- Pete hits it high in the air, left field and deep. This game is tied into the New York night and number 300 for Alonso!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: Launching his 300th career home run, tying the game.

And then in extras, the Orioles Coby Mayo would seal the deal. Mets can't wrangle the deep shot, so Mayo hoofs his way all the way around for a wild inside the park home run.

Baltimore wins 7-5, now just three games behind Cleveland for the last AL playoff spot.

Speaking of Cleveland, They were a game and a half behind the White Sox in the AL Central race, but the Guardians Brayan Rocchio stuns them in the bottom of the ninth, hitting his league-leading fourth walk off of the season. A shot to left scores two runs. It's his fourth walk off of the year.

Guardians win 7-6 and the division race remains tighter than skinny jeans on a sea lion.

All right. Elsewhere, somebody call housekeeping because the Milwaukee Brewers clubhouse getting absolutely soaked after their 5-1 win over the Pirates. Why are they wasting perfectly fine bottles of bubbles? With the Cubs' loss, they clinched their fourth straight NL Central title.

All right, here you go. Cuteness overload. You've heard of Braves legend Chipper Jones.