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Don Lemon Tonight

Sterling vs. Magic; Rove on Hillary's Health; Where is Casey Kasem?; Santa Maria Shipwreck Found?; Letters from Jackie

Aired May 13, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL WEIR, CNN HOST: Good evening, I'm Bill Weir. A packed show for you tonight. Some say Karl Rove has brought politics down to a new low, if that is even possible. Also living radio legend Kasey Casem is missing somewhere on Earth tonight. We're going to talk to his very worried kids.

Meanwhile, a guy says he has found one of Christopher Columbus' ships.

But let us begin with the story everybody is talking about, Sterling v. Johnson and a second exclusive interview by my colleague, Anderson Cooper, kind enough to hang out.

AC with us once again.

So I want to hear your thoughts. But let's set this up. There were a lot of rebuttals from Magic, and some real bald-faced contradictions, starting with the idea that what Donald Sterling told you was that Magic called him initially. Here's what he said to refresh our memory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He called you up when the tape came out and he told you not to say anything?

STERLING: Yes.

COOPER: Why did he say don't say anything?

STERLING: He just said wait, be patient, I'll help you, we'll work it out.

COOPER: Why do you think he said that?

STERLING: I think he wanted me to just do nothing so he could buy the team. He thought maybe the whole thing would be resolved in two weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EARVIN "MAGIC" JOHNSON, FORMER NBA PLAYER: I told him I wouldn't do it. I said, the number one thing you need to do, which you haven't done, is apologize to everybody and myself. "I will get to that. I will get to that."

COOPER: So he wanted you to go on with Barbara Walters sitting next to him?

JOHNSON: Sitting next to him.

COOPER: To kind of give him cover or --

JOHNSON: Exactly. So, I said no. Then I told him, I said, Donald, you should consult with your attorneys. I said, this thing is a big thing. And you should deal with your attorneys and let them advise you on what to do. But I said, you need to go public and apologize to everybody.

COOPER: How did he respond?

JOHNSON: "Well, I will apologize later. But I want you to go on this show."

He was adamant about me going on the show with him. And I told him, no, I wouldn't do it. And that's what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: So Anderson, clear it up then.

It was Sterling that called Magic, right?

COOPER: Right, Sterling's assistant called Magic Johnson at his office. This was about a week and a half ago, because the previous Friday, Donald Sterling met with me. He also met with Barbara Walters in Los Angeles on the same day, in the same hotel room.

Clearly, according to Magic Johnson, Donald Sterling wanted Magic Johnson to go on Barbara Walters' program with him to kind of give him cover, to kind of basically say that Magic Johnson is friends with Donald Sterling and is vouching for him.

Magic Johnson said there is no way that is going to happen and ended the call. So that is what Magic Johnson is saying and it certainly sounds a lot more credible than Donald Sterling's version of events, Magic Johnson calling him, somehow tricking him to remain silent so that he could somehow steal the L.A. Clippers.

WEIR: Amazing.

We'll get into his response, Magic's response to that, a little bit later.

But of course everybody learned of Donald Sterling's true character in relation to V. Stiviano, who we all were led to believe by that first leaked conversation that was having some sort of relationship with Magic Johnson, which made Sterling green with jealousy.

Here is your exchange with Magic on whether he even knows her. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: First of all, you said you were photographed with V. Stiviano. You're probably photographed with --

JOHNSON: Millions of people.

COOPER: Millions of people.

Do you know her? He claimed in this interview that I did with him the other day, he said you knew her, you knew her well.

JOHNSON: These are the facts, Anderson. I've never met this young lady. I took a picture with her, probably, it looked like at a Dodger game. That's it. That's all I know of her. You know, and then he says I'm trying to set him up. How am I trying to set you up?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR: So the whole thing, you pull one thread and it all comes apart in a lot of ways?

COOPER: Yes, Donald Sterling, just to be clear, in my interview last night, claimed that Magic Johnson knew V. Stiviano well. In the original recording, it was V. Stiviano simply said look, I took a photograph with him. I respect him but I don't really know him.

And then it was Donald Sterling who said, look, you can do whatever you want, bring him -- but just don't bring him to games, don't be photographed with him in public.

So just for the record to clear it all up, Magic Johnson pointing out he takes photographs with tons of people all day long. A lot of people want to be photographed with Magic Johnson, I took a photograph with Magic Johnson. And so the idea that he knows her beyond that is just simply not true.

WEIR: I am just curious, as a journalist have been through these two experiences, sitting down with these two men in L.A. back-to-back, how would you characterize their demeanor, their preparedness, their entourages? What was -- contrast and compare.

COOPER: You know, listen, if somebody said the things about me that Donald Sterling said about Magic Johnson, I would be hard pressed to show the kind of grace and composure that Magic Johnson I think showed tonight in this interview.

He could have very easily and for very justifiable reasons said some pretty terrible things about Donald Sterling.

Instead he talked about praying for Donald Sterling and feeling sad for him. And I think that is what a lot of viewers probably -- you know, kind of even maybe felt somewhat sympathetically as well toward Donald Sterling for a variety of reasons.

But I think that shows the kind of person Magic Johnson is, that he basically handled it in this way. And that he, you know, set forth pretty -- you know, pretty -- as far as I'm concerned explanations that make sense on everything and did it in a way with great grace, I think.

WEIR: Do you think Sterling regrets sitting down with you?

COOPER: You know, I don't know, you know, what my -- look, there was no coercion involved.

For me, what I had said to Donald Sterling in the one time that I had met him previously to sitting down and doing an interview was, look, I think you need to get on the record. Get out in front of this thing. I assumed he would apologize, I didn't know, but I assumed that would be a wise thing to do, to make a public apology.

And I assumed people would either believe that apology or not. I did not know that when we sat down that he would, yes, offer an apology -- and we're going to have more of his explanation on this tomorrow night on "AC360."

But I certainly did not expect him to suddenly bring Magic Johnson into this in a way that, you know, I think is pretty stunning. And you know, and you know, basically, justify to us, you know, continuing to report on this because he leveled all these charges against Magic Johnson which, frankly, had to be answered.

WEIR: Yes, he could have picked a lot of guys to go after. Magic about right up there with Superman in a lot of people's estimation.

COOPER: Magic Johnson is a remarkable guy and he has achieved enormous things and he has given back. And he has saved countless lives of people who he, because of him, feel like they know somebody who's HIV positive, people who have gone out and gotten tested -- which is crucial now more than ever before, to go out and get tested for HIV.

You know, because of Magic Johnson, countless numbers of people have done that and countless numbers of people's lives have been saved.

WEIR: Thanks for sharing, another huge get, Anderson Cooper, appreciate it.

And joining me now, Roger Mason, he's the vice president of the NBA Players Association, former player as well, also Carl Douglas, the attorney who represented former GM Elgin Baylor when he unsuccessfully tried to sue Sterling.

And also Pat Croce, former president and ballboy turned president of the Philadelphia 76ers.

Gentlemen, good to see all of you, thanks for being with us.

Pat, let me start with you. I want to get a fresh reaction from somebody who knows the game well. Your reaction to Magic's grace tonight and this whole Sterling scandal in general.

PAT CROCE, FORMER PRESIDENT, PHILADELPHIA 76ERS: I can't believe he added to the insults he has already levied against Magic and the African-American race. Magic Johnson is one of the most endearing and engaging people on this planet. That smile just disarms everyone from the street to the elite.

Let me tell you something, Bill, when I asked Magic to help me with alnarisan (ph) after my first year with Alan (ph), Alan (ph) was a little raw. He flew to Virginia and met with me and Alan (ph), and because he was a mentor toward Alan (ph), Alan looked up to him. He gave his time and talent. He didn't have to. I'm telling you, Magic Johnson is, I heard Anderson say, he is a superman.

WEIR: Yes.

And Carl, your experience with the Elgin Baylor case, I want to talk, we'll get Magic's reaction to how Elgin was treated when he came out on that. But as a guy who has parsed the words of Donald Sterling, what do you make of these conflicting stories?

Who called who?

Who knew V. Stiviano when?

None of it seems to line up.

CARL DOUGLAS, ATTORNEY FOR ELGIN BAYLOR: Well, Bill, from my experience sitting across the table with Donald Sterling over two separate sessions and probably lasting seven or eight hours combined, he has a proclivity of saying whatever, whenever that he needs to say to make his point.

I think he lied under oath. I am almost certain he lied under oath not only in deposition, but also in a trial in front of a judge and a jury and media watching. So it really comes as no surprise for me to hear that he has said things that Magic has plainly disputed.

WEIR: Yes.

Roger, grade Magic's performance tonight, reacting to all that mud being slung his way.

ROGER MASON JR., V.P., NATIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION: A- plus; wouldn't expect it any other way with Magic Johnson. You know, I grew up watching him play and grew up seeing what happened and how he has turned himself into not just a great businessman but a great human being. So I think he handled it with class and dignity.

WEIR: OK, gentlemen, if you will be kind enough to hang out, we're going to take a break. When we come back we'll have more of Anderson's big interview with Magic and how it sort of compares and contrasts to Donald Sterling.

Also, from Jackie to Beyonce, the private lives behind the celebrity mask, when we come back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STERLING: Jews, when they get successful, they will help their people. And some of the African-Americans, maybe I'll get in trouble again, they don't want to help anybody, what has Magic Johnson really done for Children's Hospital?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: It is disturbing, it is sad, it is -- he didn't do his homework. Tyler Perry called me right after the interview. He was so upset. Spike Lee called me. I mean, look, we help each other, you know, and we -- and what we try to do is band together to see how we can better our community.

We also give the information, because I'm successful, Tyler is successful, on and on, on and on. We go back and educate the others on how they can become successful. So it is not about just giving them money. It is also about giving them the tools so that they can be successful in the African-American community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: That is Magic Johnson with Anderson Cooper rebutting those smears from Donald Sterling that he has done nothing for his community.

We actually tried to fact check some of Mr. Sterling's characterizations. And we couldn't find a lot, but we did find one reporter by the name of Zac Bissonnette, writing for BuzzFeed. He also has a new book out called "Good Advice from Bad People." It's life advice from hypocrites, I understand.

But Zach, you also wrote about Magic's business practices. And you found something that wasn't as glowing as what everybody is saying tonight.

ZAC BISSONNETTE, AUTHOR: Right, and there is a vast industry in America that is predicated on targeting low income minorities and ripping them off with predatory financial services products. And virtually across the board in every single facet of that industry you will find somewhere in it Magic Johnson there, taking a cut to serve as a figurehead and a promoter for these businesses.

One of the best examples was Jackson Hewitt which was doing these refund anticipation loans; in 2007 they settled charges with the California attorney general. In 2009, Magic Johnson did a big ad campaign with them. Consumer advocates complained about it and eventually the company stopped offering the loans because the government did something that essentially made them impossible to offer, but Magic Johnson was promoting them. The same thing with pre-paid debit card, a financial services product that virtually everyone is saying don't use a prepaid debit card. Magic Johnson has his own pre-paid debit card. If you want to talk about business opportunity and overhyped chances to get rich quick there is the Magic Johnson travel agency that he was hawking for a while that has since gone defunct. If you talk about subprime mortgages, Washington Mutual, one of the worst lenders that went bankrupt and is the largest bank failure in U.S. history, Magic Johnson partnered with them to open home loan centers in low income communities.

So again -- and by the way, that is just a few of them. Again and again and again this is a guy who we need someone out there like him telling people don't get ripped off. But instead, in exchange for money, Magic Johnson has sold his soul to predatory financial companies.

WEIR: Wow, well, Donald Sterling would love hearing that. I know you're not here to defend --

BISSONNETTE: That is the last thing I want to do is say anything nice about Donald Sterling. He's one of the worst people in America, Magic Johnson is not one of the worst people in America. But Magic Johnson has some explaining to do and I think he has gotten a free ride, kind of the same free ride that Donald Sterling got until a couple of weeks ago.

WEIR: Interesting perspective, and especially in light of this.

Let's bring back in Roger Mason, Carl Douglas and Pat Croce as well.

I'm interested in your take, Mr. Mason, because you represented Elgin Baylor, trying to get justice against Donald Sterling for essentially slumlord activities -- I'm sorry.

Carl Douglas, this question is for you.

Here is Magic tonight talking about how Elgin was treated, you know, when he -- I remember reading a columnist in the "L.A. Times" saying if Elgin knew about this for years, why is he just coming out now? It sounds like he is a disgruntled employee and Magic actually to Anderson tonight agreed that he got the wrong deal, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Elgin Baylor had said that he sued Sterling back in 2009, alleging racial discrimination and age discrimination.

He said a lot of these things back then, and a lot of people didn't really support him.

JOHNSON: Yes, exactly. He -- you are exactly right. And now we all feel bad that we didn't support him, because we should have. And everything that he said is coming to light today.

COOPER: Yes, I think, even in 2009, the year he was suing him, the NAACP in L.A. gave Sterling an award.

JOHNSON: Yes. Yes. Yes.

And it has been -- I hope that Elgin feels a lot better today. And I know he doesn't, but I hope that now we -- he will get some justice. He -- the things that he had to go through, hopefully, nobody else will have to go through, even including myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Carl, what do you think of that?

DOUGLAS: It is really interesting, and I have not had a chance to talk with Elgin. But I suspect he is smiling. Because he spoke of Donald Sterling having a plantation mentality back in the early '80s.

In our trial, we were limited to being only allowed to bring up allegations that dated back two years. We had things that went back 20 or 30 years or more. So we were not able to pursue the racial claims in our case.

But now, in my community we say God has a sense of humor. And I'm sure that Elgin is smiling now, feeling vindicated because the allegations, the mindset that he spoke of that Donald Sterling had, has been proven to be true. And all of America, indeed the world, has had a chance to look deeply into his heart.

WEIR: Pat Croce, former president of the Philadelphia 76ers, what happens next?

How long do you think before the board of governors or whatever the structure is there at the NBA can take this team away from this guy and sell is to somebody that everyone agrees would be more deserving?

CROCE: Well, first, Bill, I was shocked that Adam Silver encouraged the owners to get him out of there. I didn't think he could do that. But with a 75 percent vote Sterling will be gone and all the ownership with him will be gone, as well as his wife's. I think it will happen as quickly as possible.

Look, they already put Parsons in as CEO. They have done everything possible to take control of the Clippers and make sure that all the players, not only on the Clippers team but within the NBA know that Adam Silver and the entire management of the NBA are totally supportive of them, and not Donald Sterling's crazy mentality.

I think it will happen quicker than we think.

WEIR: Yes.

And Roger Mason, I guess you're the -- ears at the NBA Players Association got to perk up when a guy like Mark Cuban came out today and said that the Clippers could sell for over a billion dollars.

MASON: Yes, that is not surprising. You saw what happened with the Milwaukee Bucks selling for over $550 million in a small market. So we know the temperature in our league is doing well. And this is a bit of a black eye now. But that franchise will be just fine once it gets in the right hands.

WEIR: All right, Roger, appreciate it.

Carl Douglas, Pat Croce, Zac Bissonnette, good angles all the way around on this story. Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

And when we come back, Karl Rove raises questions about Hillary Clinton's brain health and sets off a predictable uproar.

Is this a preview of the next few years? If so, maybe we should just move to New Zealand now.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: Is Karl Rove suffering from brain damage? I'm not saying he is. But it might be a reasonable question, given his recent comments about Hillary Clinton.

The "New York Post's" page 6 reported today that while speaking at an event last Thursday Rove brought up the then-secretary of state's hospitalization after a fall in 2012. Quote, "Thirty days in a hospital and when she reappears she is wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? We need to know what is up with that."

Well, Ms. Clinton actually spent three days in the hospital and Mr. Rove has since walked back those statements, telling "The Washington Post," of course she doesn't have brain damage, he says he was just raising the point that if she runs in 2016, her entire health history is fair game.

But the Clinton camp pounced. Quote, "They are scared of what she has achieved and what she has to offer. What he is doing is its own form of sickness. But she is 100 percent, period, time for them to move on to their next desperate attack."

Joining me now, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, CNN political contributor Hillary Rosen and political reporter Maggie Haberman.

Welcome to all of you. Thanks for being with us.

So Kevin, did Karl bump his head? What do you think led to this today?

KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well look, I know that Democrats are going to try and paint this as some sort of Rovian conspiracy to introduce Hillary Clinton's health in a very negative way into any 2016 conversation, but I think it was truly, as Karl Rove said himself, a rather awkward way of making what I think is a pretty obvious point, which is that Hillary Clinton right now as a technical non-candidate has not faced a lot of scrutiny about what was essentially a health event that will receive a lot of scrutiny were she to ever become a candidate.

I think that is just standard operating procedure on any campaign and he was pointing that out.

WEIR: Let me get Hilary's reaction to this.

Now this is -- this sort of passive-aggressive innuendo, I am not saying this is true, I'm not saying we should make a big deal about Barack Obama's smoking pot in 2008, but it is out there. What do you -- look at this from a strategist's point of view, and tell me what is really going on here.

You know, I think two things are going on.

HILARY ROSEN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: First I do think - -and Kev, thanks for the lead-in. I do think that Republicans are looking for a way to try and undermine Hillary physically because they have not been able to undermine her politically.

And so doing that with her health is clearly the rumblings that they're trying.

But the second thing is more about Karl Rove which is, you know, the right wing of his party has been pretty mad at him over the last two years. And I think in part, him getting out in front attacking Hillary is one of his ways of showing the right wing of his party, look, I'm really with you guys. Here I am.

And so I think he sees this as putting himself right square in the middle of the "Get Hillary" campaign, which heretofore has been managed by the Right of the party.

WEIR: Maggie, you think this says a lot more about Rove than it does about Hillary or anything else, right? And where he stands in that party?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN ANALYST: I think it says both, and I think Hilary Rosen is absolutely right, that this is about appealing to the base. I think what Rove said is something that he has probably said before in other speeches, I think it just didn't get reported on. And it is something that you have heard essentially as a whisper among a lot of Republicans who have had questions about her health.

Kevin is also right. This will be an issue in the sense that any presidential candidate's health gets asked about. Hers would get asked about, too; McCain's got asked about.

To your question about, no, I'm not saying Barack Obama smoked pot, but you know, who knows, both parties have done things like this. Both parties have raised innuendo. It happened in 2008 on both sides. Happened about McCain's health, happened about the Clintons did it to Obama, this is not surprising.

What was interesting was how the Republicans seized on it. That was interesting to me. WEIR: And we were talking about this on the break, that they jumped on this as well. It just doesn't -- maybe she -- maybe she wants to play this out right now. But the other thing that Rove went for is her age. It also seemed like this was an excuse to bring up the fact that she will be 69, in 2016, 77 if she serves two terms as well.

HABERMAN: Yes, no, this is again, this is what happened with McCain, too, right, there were questions about his age. This was raised as a subtext issue in 2008, it was done through health but then it became about that. Bob Dole had similar issues.

ROSEN: But Maggie, it was raised by the Republicans in 2008, not the Democrats.

MADDEN: I think it was raised by everybody --

ROSEN: (INAUDIBLE) by Karl Rove.

MADDEN: It was raised by everybody in 2012 -- I mean, about, but -- I'm sorry, even in 2008, about McCain. There were conversations that were happening in the primary about that just as much as they were in the general election.

ROSEN: Karl Rove did this to McCain first, I mean, he has got a history here of doing this.

WEIR: But what is the reason -- what is -- how is it reasonable to bring up Secretary Clinton's health in all contexts? Because to be fair, they were very coy about what happened with her fall, with the flu, what she was doing in the hospital.

HABERMAN: They were initially not very forthcoming about the information. They were ultimately very forthcoming about the information. The problem for Rove here is that the "New York Post" report is correct, saying that she was in the hospital for 30 days is just factually wrong. She was in the hospital for three days. That was known; you saw her leave. And then she testified -- and you know, the whole at the time was this was a ruse so that she was not going to be testifying in the Benghazi hearings, that obviously didn't happen. She did go testify. She was perceived as doing pretty well.

So at the end of the day when you overreach, that is a real problem. And it sort of inoculates as this being an issue going forward.

WEIR: So Kevin Madden, end this off here and elevate this conversation. Attack Hillary Clinton in a much more dignified way.

MADDEN: Well, look, the scrutiny that Hillary Clinton eventually gets on her health is not -- that's not something that is going to have to be driven in a partisan way by Republicans. Reporters are going to demand that they see health records; they have done it for Republicans. They've done it for Democrats. They've done it for years.

So, I think there is, you're right, Bill, I mean, Republicans, we have so much that we can focus on with Hillary Clinton to criticize her on, on the substance, that this is not necessarily going to be the focal point in any potential 2016 campaign.

WEIR: Well, given her productivity, we should all get brain injuries like this.

ROSEN: We should all have as much energy.

WEIR: Exactly, right.

MADDEN: Well, we'll see about the productivity part.

WEIR: We'll fall in that.

Kevin Madden, Hilary Rosen, Maggie Haberman, thank you.

Great piece in "Politico" from Maggie, by the way, on the Bush family and the new brother who may be running again. Another Bush versus Clinton, yay.

Coming up. Where in the world is Casey Kasem? The radio legend's kids say their father has dementia and they fear that Casey's wife, a former actress, has taken him and fled. It's an incredible story and they'll join me next.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY KASEM, TV AND RADIO PERSONALITY: And that means another act moved to the top with their first number one hit. The four-man band from Los Angeles named Van Halen; they have the biggest hit in the land with "Jump".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Oh, it takes me back.

If you remember a time when you discovered your new favorite band on an old-timey device called a radio, and if your first real taste of the counterculture was Shaggy on "Scooby-Doo," then the voice of Casey Kasem brings and instant smile. Born to Lebanese parents in Detroit as Kamal Amin Kasem, he cut his teeth in small market radio and hit it big with "American Top 40" with that one signature sign-off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY KASEM: Keep your feet in the ground and keep reaching for the stars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: It is an American motto and it helped push his net worth into the tens of millions, now Casey had three children with his first wife, and then in 1980 married an actress named Jean, who you may remember as the dimwit Loretta Tortelli on the hit sit-com, "Cheers." Jean never really got along with her stepchildren. They say she cut them out of their father's life, blocked visits even as he came down with Lewy body disease, an ailment often confused with Parkinson's or Alzheimer's.

And now at age 82, Casey Kasem is missing. Yesterday in an L.A. court a lawyer for Jean Kasem claimed he had no idea where the radio legend is, though he suspects he may be in another country. This brought an understandably stunned reaction from the children of Casey Kasem, who join me now from Los Angeles.

Kerri and Julie Kasem, also Kerri's attorney, Troy Martin, in case we get into some dicey legal area here, he is going to referee this.

But Kerri, Julie, thank you for being with us.We're all just such huge fans of your father in this building. And our hearts go out to you. I want to go back to the beginning in a second, but just tell me about this moment yesterday in court when you heard that even your stepmom's lawyer has no idea where your dad is.

KERRI KASEM, CASEY KASEM'S DAUGHTER: We had a heads up, actually, from one of Jean's family members that said hey, I overheard a conversation that possibly Jean is trying to get him out of the country onto an Indian reservation first and then out of the country from there.

So we kind of had a heads up. We were not sure where he was and we weren't sure if that was accurate. So when we did hear it from her attorney that he was already out of the country it was shocking.

WEIR: How did it come to this?

Have things always been tense between you guys and Jean?

KERRI KASEM: You know, in the beginning it was -- it was hard. And we didn't understand why she didn't like us. We were very young. But 20 years ago it was -- we kind of stopped seeing her; she didn't want us at the house or when we were at the house she would leave. Pretty much I think the last 20 years maybe talked to her three times.

WEIR: Wow.

And how was his health?

When is the last time you saw him, and can he communicate?

Is he lucid?

JULIE KASEM, CASEY KASEM'S DAUGHTER: So let's see, last time we saw him was last Tuesday when Kerri's -- one of her attorneys was able to get us into see him at the facility where he was staying. And so we spent like a wonderful few hours with him there. And I don't want to speak specifically to his health.

But I mean, as it has been said, he does have a Lewy body dementia, and so his communication is obviously limited. That being said, he knows who we are, he was able to respond appropriately to simple questions or simple things we said to him. And it was very clear he was able to smile. He was able to say I love you. When we told him we'll be back, Dad, we'll be back. He looked at us and said when? Which was heartbreaking.

Anyway, so, you know, it's -- there's so much more meaningful communication we can have with him. We want him back.

He knows that we're his children and he knows how much we love him. And he feeds off that love. And we feed off his love and we want him back.

WEIR: I understand some visits got so tense with your stepmom, there was an armed guard there watching you visit, that that sort of eroded in recent visits. But that you just learned the true nature of his illness, right? You thought he had Parkinson's up until just recently?

JULIE KASEM: That is correct, we were told he had Parkinson's disease. Of course, I'm a physician assistant. I work in hospice and end of life care. My husband is a cardiologist; she would not let us get anywhere near his physician. She wouldn't let us ask any questions or go to any of the doctor's appointments with him as his advocate or anything.

So what we know or what we heard at the time it was Parkinson's disease. These are -- Lewy body disease and Parkinson's disease sort of mimic each other, so that being said, we kind of thought, OK. It's Parkinson's disease. Now we know it is Lewy body dementia. It is unfortunate that we were not privy to that information ahead of time.

WEIR: We did reach out to Jean's attorney, Craig Marcus, for comments, a statement. He never got back to us. And just so we understand the legal ramifications, last year a judge, we understand, ruled that your dad was being well cared for by his wife, Jean. And at the time your request to take over as -- what is it -- temporary conservatorship denied. But that -- did that change yesterday?

(CROSSTALK)

First of all, Bill, if I could --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead, Troy.

WEIR: Go ahead, Troy.

Sorry for talking over you.

First of all, Bill, it is not entirely true that the request was denied. What happened was there was a settlement. There was an agreement that was reached between Julie and between Jean that provided for semi-regular visitation.

Kerri didn't agree to that because it was much too restrictive. And there were other problems with the agreement. The case was dismissed because there was a settlement which was almost immediately breached by Jean.

WEIR: I understand. So what happens next? I understand there's -- the judge ordered an investigation, protective services to try to figure out where your dad went?

KERRI KASEM: That is right. You know, we have adult protective services looking for him. We have got the court-appointed PDP attorney looking for him.

You know, and Troy talk a little bit about -- because I don't know much legal jargon, but I am -- I have been appointed temporary conservator, but we need the paperwork to go through to file a missing person's report.

WEIR: So that's --

MARTIN: Basically we have been having a little problem with the authorities and solidifying what Kerri's role is, what her obligations are, what her authority is. We couldn't get that until we had the order. which we just got signed by the judge today even though he stated in court that it was -- exactly. So now that we have the order. It was signed today; we will be taking those steps with the appropriate authorities to make sure that we can get Mr. Kasem back here safely.

WEIR: And Kerri, Julie, where do you think he is?

What about this Indian reservation?

Do you think he could be out of the country?

KERRI KASEM: It is possible he is still in the country. And this is why we're doing so many interviews. This is why, I mean, we want as many people to, you know, be on the lookout for our dad. If you see him, if you know his whereabouts, if you hear anything about him, please call the police. We want to stop her from moving. We think she's moved him quite a few times.

This is terrible for his health. A man in his condition should not be continually be moved. Especially with Lewy body disease, he's confused. He can -- you know, he's probably very afraid and he's not getting proper medical care.

WEIR: Kerri, Julie, our hearts go out to you. Good luck in finding him. I hope you see him, as well. We really appreciate it.

Troy, as well.

Well coming up, he says he's turned up a priceless 500-year-old mystery. He says he has found the Santa Maria, flagship of Christopher Columbus, but could he possibly be right?

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WEIR: Tonight, a mystery that has endured for half a millennium, a mystery with a name every kid knows, or at least the ones who learned, "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

What you are looking at may be the long-lost remains of the Santa Maria, Christopher Columbus' flagship from his first voyage to the Americas. The underwater explorer who found the wreck is sure this is the missing ship; his name is Barry Clifford and he's sitting right here.

Barry, good to meet you.

BARRY CLIFFORD, UNDERWATER EXPLORER: Nice to meet you.

WEIR: So you had found this area -- and we have the map here. This is just off -- like how many miles off of Haiti?

CLIFFORD: It's two or three miles off the Haitian coast.

WEIR: About two or three miles off, which is about where it should have been, given where Columbus was back then?

CLINTON: Well, Columbus said in his diary, that the wreck was a league and a half, which is 4.7 miles from the fort he built, called Navidad. The problem was, is that nobody really knew where Navidad was, so it was misdiagnosed back in 2003 where the actual location was. But in our expedition at the end of our expedition we determined the exact location of Navidad through an associate of ours who came up with the documentation that, yes, this is Navidad.

So we put one end of the compass on Navidad, swung the compass out into the Bay of Cap-Haitien and exactly the distance it was supposed to be is where we found this 15th century artifact.

WEIR: You found a cannon, right? This smoking gun, this you think leads you to this sort of thing.

Now I have done some stories on treasure hunters and it's a fantastic subculture down in the Keys and all around the world. So I don't know anything about whether this is true.

But since we had him here talking about Magic Johnson earlier, Pat Croce, you know him, a fellow explorer?

CLIFFORD: I don't.

WEIR: Well, let me introduce you.

Pat Croce, after the 76ers founded the San Augustine Pirate and Treasure Museum, and he joins us via satellite now.

Pat, do you think Barry deserves congratulations?

Do you he found the Santa Maria? CROCE: Well, Barry is my hero because he found the Widow, Samuel Bellamy's pirate ship in 1984, so he had found an authentic pirate ship. And he validated it by finding the bell.

Now to find this Santa Maria, which drifted into a sandbar in 1492 and was stripped to the gilt, all the boards which Columbus used to build La Navidad, the fort, I mean, I don't see how -- he only had a couple of cannons on this ship and he gave one to the fort, one he took back on the Pinta, back to Spain. It's hard for me to envision that he would have left the cannon behind. This was Christopher Columbus --

(CROSSTALK)

CLIFFORD: OK. In having dissected the diary, though, and understanding this perfectly, on -- remember, Columbus wrecked the ship on Christmas Eve 1492. He left for Spain seven days later on January 2nd. They did not have time to strip this giant ship. He said on December 26th that the ship was stripped. That's when he made the note in his diario, the day after the ship had come ashore.

And on January 2nd, leaving the Bay of Cap-Haitien, he said in his diario, that they loaded a lombard and fired it through the Santa Maria and the stone passed through the ship and traveled at a great distance over the water.

Now that tells me that there was enough of the ship sticking up out of the water that he had a target to shoot at on his way back to Spain.

And based on what we saw, based on the way that I have interpreted the diario, that the ship was not -- only they took the surface material off the ship. They describe cutting a hole in the side of the ship, going into the side of the ship and taking out jars. They don't describe -- and it -- when he made the statement that the ship had been stripped, he made that the next morning after the ship had wrecked on December 26th.

Now, my point is, is that you're not going to strip a ship that was built with these huge timbers in a matter of a couple of hours.

WEIR: Do you think there's -- what is this worth, if it is actually the Santa Maria?

CLIFFORD: Well, first of all, we don't sell artifacts. This is an educational tool. It is the ship that made possible the discoveries of the Americas. It changed the course of human history. And it is a touchstone to this period that has to be preserved and protected.

And that's what we're doing. We heard rumors that the ship had been looted. We put together an emergency team. We went there immediately and indeed we found the ship had been looted. So we've been in touch with the Haitian government. We've been in touch directly with President Martelli and it is my mission to preserve, excavate the ship and make sure that it is put on display in a way that would help the Haitian people.

WEIR: You could give it to Pat. He would put it in his museum. (LAUGHTER)

CROCE: I'd be glad to. Bring it to St. Augustine.

WEIR: This is a rivalry, I can already tell. But it's a fascinating story and the world hopes you're right. And we really appreciate you coming here and sharing it. We'll be following it.

CLIFFORD: Thank you so much.

WEIR: All right, Barry.

And Pat, appreciate it, man, two segments. You're our yeoman.

CROCE: Say, Bill.

WEIR: Working for us tonight. I love that you love pirates. I want to come see the St. Augustine Pirate and Treasure Museum.

(CROSSTALK)

CROCE: Be my guest.

WEIR: All right. When we come back, the private thoughts of one of America's best-loved first ladies, the never-before-seen letters of Jackie O.

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WEIR: I'd like to read you from a deeply personal letter and see if you can guess who wrote it.

"Maybe I'm just dazzled and picture myself in a glittering world of crowned heads and men of destiny and not just a sad little housewife. That can be very glamorous from the outside. But if you're in it, and you're lonely, it could be a hell."

So go the words of Jackie Kennedy in one of dozens of letters she wrote to an Irish priest. See, when she was Jackie Bouvier, visiting that country at age 21, she met 73-year-old Father Joseph Leonard, who became a pen pal confidant for years, even when her stationery carried the White House seal. And they are bracing, these letters, in their candor and vulnerability.

"He's like my father, in a way," she wrote of Jack before they were married. "He loves the chase and is bored with the conquest and once married, needs proof he is still attractive so he flirts with other women and resents you. I saw how that nearly killed Mummy."

But a year later, she wrote how much she loved being married, much more than at the beginning. And the most heartbreaking passages come after JFK's assassination.

"I feel more cruelly every day that I had lost. I would have always rather lost my life than lost Jack. I feel so bitter against God."

This correspondent ended when the priest passed away. And the only reason we are seeing them now is that an Irish auction house is putting them up for sale and they will make a killing because this is one of the most fascinating and private women in modern history. Those two words, fascinating and private, really don't go together in the age of Twitter and TMZ and 10-figure temptations to write the tell-all.

And it may seem like a complete non sequitur. But for some reason this made me think of Jay Z and Beyonce this week, the closest thing we have to a Camelot couple in 2014.

As hard as they try to manage their image, they couldn't stop the release of this elevator confrontation between Beyonce's sister and her husband after a night of posing and smiling for the whole world.

Who knows what caused it. As Tolstoy said, "All happy families are alike. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Maybe they are working out some stuff every fan can relate to. But you can't blame them for not wanting to air it now, not when the wounds are fresh and the glare is so bright. Maybe we'll get the real story when Beyonce's pastor sells her letters in 50 years.

Tragedy plus time equals comedy. But it also adds up to a kind of unifying humanity, empathy. And if Jackie had shared some of these feelings as she was feeling them, you got to know how it would have changed their image or her pain.

"It is so good, in a way, to write all this down, to get it off your chest," she wrote to Father Leonard, "because I never do really talk it with anyone."

I'm Bill Weir. Thanks for checking in tonight. Hope to meet you back here in 23 hours.