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Don Lemon Tonight

Manhunt for French Terror Suspects; Possible Pings Detected in Search For Flight 8501; The Freedom to Offend

Aired January 08, 2015 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Finish your thought and then Christiane Amanpour is with us as well.

RULA JEBREAL, FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Security services, they have to start collaborating more. When you -- many things, many information about these brothers in France. As remember, Russians knew a lot of things about Tsarnaevs.

However, there is a lack of collaboration. After September 11, everybody thought never again will they collaborate more. Europeans feel -- and today I've been reading -- many people on the website say Americans collaborate less with Europeans when it comes to metadata about certain extremists.

You have 5 million people in France. We need to (inaudible) about 5,000 that are radicalized.

LEMON: I want to bring Christiane Amanpour into this. This is really her expertise. Christiane, talk to us about radicalization inside Europe and inside France as well, what is going on that makes it different than what is happening in the United States?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look all our societies have experienced at one point or another since 9/11 this extreme version of Islam that is being directed at the United States, during 9/11 then Britain, 2005 and Madrid, 2004.

Here, the (Lemone) newspaper said today what happened on Wednesday here in Paris behind me is the headquarters of "Charlie Hebdo" was France's 9/11. So, there is obviously a rage that it's undergoing amongst some elements of society around the world.

And all of these different attacks. Some are linked. Some are not linked and it is very difficult to try to separate out what causes what. I think, you know, 14 years after 9/11. People are no longer willing to ascribe sort of alienation or foreign policy or whatever to these kinds of attacks.

And what is happening here in France, for instance, right now. France is the European country, which has the highest percentage of Muslims in its country. It has always been on higher alert and had a higher threat than the rest of the European countries.

And at the time that it is happening is when there is a horrible domestic situation going on around Europe as well where there are far right groups which are capitalizing and creating if you look an Islamaphobia. That is going on as well.

So it's a lot of different political currents happening and also you can't underestimate, how much, certain Muslims around the world are radicalized by what they see as happening in Syria. Just like what happened in Afghanistan in the 80s and Bosnia in the 90s.

What's happening in Syria has turned a lot of Muslims into very, very vengeful and full of rage. So there are a lot of complicated and complex, political, social currents.

But obviously what happened here is completely utterly unacceptable by any standards whatsoever. Muslim leaders have criticized it heavily here. Imams are being encouraged to take to pulpits, Friday prayers across the countries and in a few hours, to condemn it very, very strongly -- Don.

LEMON: Christiane Amanpour, we appreciate that. What do you make of what she said?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": You know one thing that strikes me is the polling in France. If you've ask Muslims what they believe, so, 1% subscribes essentially to the Osama Bin Laden vision. That's 1 percent. That population, it's still a significant number of people.

But more than a third of French Muslims are worried about jihadist. There will be a backlash. That will undermine them. The only way off to limit the actions. The terrorist action of that potential 1 percent is to have this 30 percent working on your side, and they potentially are.

LEMON: But how do you battle against an idea? Everyone has their ideas. How do you battle against an idea?

JEBREAL: With a better idea. You have to create within the communities, especially scholars, Muslim scholars. What you have to do with it denouncing is not enough. They are late. They are outdated. Who do they listen to them? Al-Awlaki, he took the Koran and certain texts. You have 113 stories out of the Koran.

The 115 starts with peace on you and one, there is no peace, butchering, killing, this and that without actually interpreting. I consider the first ISIS state Saudi Arabia. What they did, they canceled centuries of interpretation. You have four law schools of Koran.

LEMON: There is nothing in the Koran that says you can't depict Muhammad. That's an interpretation, correct?

JEBREAL: However, you have to go to scholars to interpret. There are competing ideas. Whoever is reading, as Chris wrote, reading something can go and destroy a school. Another person can actually build a school and these are the competing ideas.

You have a policeman that was killed defending free speech and you have actually Muslim that killed him in name of Koran. You have to empower the good ones.

LEMON: So we are talking about in the name of Koran. As I said there is no scripture. This is all interpretation about -- how you can depict the Prophet Muhammad, right? Did they go too far? Did "Charlie Hebdo" go too far? Should they be more sensitive to --

KRISTOF: Yes, I think that, that they should have been more sensitive. I don't believe in gratuitously offending people. But obviously, journalists go too far all the time. And the price shouldn't be, maybe the price is that you complain on Facebook or that you cancel your subscription. The solution is not this.

I was going to say, Britain has I think the best program to try to fight jihadist. What they do is they have, if you send me to go talk to them. That gets you nowhere. What they do is they get disenchanted Muslims themselves from the community.

Those people go and they talk to young folks. They say, look, you know, there is racism here. There isn't enough opportunity. But, the solution isn't to blow things up.

And they are able to establish, like working with gang members in the United States. That program actually has had considerable success intrigue to diffuse Jihadism.

JEBREAL: They also sit in the parliament and they're in the State Department. They're in the prime minister office. Everywhere, Muslims unlike France, it is a different story.

LEMON: I want to ask you this. I have to get to something else here. But, Nic Robertson pointed this out, Fareed Zakaria pointed out, he wants to see Muslim leaders of Muslim countries go on television, vehemently denounce this. Do we need to hear more from moderate Muslims? I know moderate Muslims speak out all the time. Do we need to hear more from moderate?

JEBREAL: I think two things we need to have, absolutely. Moderate Muslims are denouncing it over and over. I think the west needs to hear it finally. Need to say, OK, we are hearing you. But we would look to collaborate with you and, and, fight together this, these criminal acts that are against both sides.

There is another thing which is freedom of speech. Most immigrants that arrive to Europe run away from their own country because they have no freedom of speech whatsoever. I have friend in Egypt. He is cracking down on journalists like there is no tomorrow. Egyptians, Tunisians, and Saudis, they are number one against that.

LEMON: If you want to stick around until midnight. We can have a conversation.

KRISTOF: I mean, we definitely ignore Muslim voices around the world, speaking for broader tolerance, tolerance within the Muslim community of Shia, tolerance of Bahai, tolerance of Akmadi, tolerance of Christians in these communities. I mean, indeed we should see those voices of tolerance. We ourselves can model that behavior of tolerance.

LEMON: Fantastic conversation. Thank you --

KRISTOF: Thank you.

LEMON: -- both of you.

All right, want to get to the breaking news now. The hunt for two armed dangerous suspects in a deadly attack on "Charlie Hebdo." focused on a wooded area in Northern France. Suspects may have been spotted by helicopter earlier.

Joining me now is CNN's justice reporter, Evan Perez. Evan, what's the latest on this?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Don, we know that the French police are concentrating, concentrating hundreds of officers down in that area to try off to find these two suspects. These suspects were on the radar for U.S. law enforcement. They put them on the watch list.

One of them is called the tied watch list. The name of some of the best known suspected known and suspected international terrorists as well as the no fly list. These people would not have been able to travel to this country.

So that raises the question why these guys were not being more closely watched by the French. We know at one point they were being monitored. But at some point it appears that monitoring stopped.

And so the question now that this is being rayed in France is why that, why that is? We are told that part of this issue is that they have so many people that they have to monitor. The manpower that it takes for the authorities to do that is just too great.

It is not a problem just there, Don. It is a problem that we have here with the FBI as well. They tell me that is just a huge use of their resources.

LEMON: Manpower intensive.

PEREZ: To keep track of all these people.

LEMON: So then does the intelligence -- there was intelligence that one of the alleged gunmen traveled to train -- traveled by train in Yemen. To train, excuse me, in Yemen. What does that signal to authorities?

PEREZ: Well, you know, what it signals to them is perhaps the realization of the worry they have had for some time, Don. There is this competition that going on. That we are seeing.

And the competition that we are talking about here in this case is between AQAP, the al Qaeda affiliate in Yemen and ISIS, which is the group that has taken all the headlines in the past year, all the attention of U.S. and European authorities because of the fight in Syria and Iraq.

We have known for some time and the concern among U.S. intelligence and intelligence in Europe as well was that because of all the attention ISIS was getting.

That perhaps the Yemeni affiliate of al Qaeda or al Qaeda core would try to launch attention getting attack in the west to try to regain the mantle and to try to get back some of its advantage in getting recruits.

After all of this is about getting recruits. Don, that's the big competition that's going on between these groups.

LEMON: Yes, so you know, we have -- one is in custody, turned himself in and they are looking at others, are officials afraid that they may somehow leave the country. They haven't gotten them this far.

PEREZ: Well, yes, that's the big concern. As you know there is no real border controls between France and the European countries there. You can just cross the border without really anybody checking your passport or your papers.

And especially now that they have gotten into what they believe they've gotten into some of the woods there. You can easily cross the border without one noticing.

So the question is, right, are these guys going to go down with a big fight? Are they planning something else? Is there some place else they have hidden perhaps additional weaponry that they can carry out perhaps another spectacular attack before this is all over.

LEMON: Evan Perez, our justice reporter here on CNN. Thank you very much. Lots more to come on the breaking news, the manhunt in France for two armed and dangerous suspects in the terror attack on "Charlie Hebdo." What do we know about the suspects and their motives? Were they hiding in plain sight all along?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. It's early Friday morning in France where an intense manhunt is under way right now for two suspects in the deadly terror attack at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine.

Here with me now, Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst, Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst, and Mubin Shaik, a Jihadist- turned-undercover counterterrorism operative and he is also the author of "Undercover Jihadi."

So Paul, they had information, a lot of information it seems on at least one of the brothers and then nothing, what happened?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's the big question, Don. They not only had a lot of information on one of the brothers. But one of the brothers was convicted of terrorism offenses back in 2005. He wanted to go and fight in Iraq with al Qaeda in Iraq against American troops in 2005. But he was arrested before he was able to travel and he was given a three-year jail sentence.

Before he traveled, he considered launching attacks on Jewish targets in France back in 2005. The other brother traveled to Yemen in 2011 and trained with al Qaeda in Yemen over there. So there was it seems a lot of information about these two people.

So not at all clear how they dropped off the radar screen. But the French are looking at about a 5,000 extremists at any one time they have to monitor, a very significant problem with radicalization so often this sort of, resources issue.

They have to prioritize who they're going to watch, but still, despite that a lot of questions this evening.

LEMON: There is a documentary that, one of the brothers was in. Let's look at it, the older brother.

(VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The younger brother, Cherif Kouachi, move in, he very quickly -- that shows you how quickly someone can become radicalized.

MUBIN SHAIKH, JIHADIST TURNED UNDERCOVER COUNTERTERRORISM OPERATIVE: Yes, especially when this happened to me as well. You are living life in the fast lane. You are being told this is a sinful life that you're living. You shouldn't be like this. I can show you how to change your life. I can show you how to become a better person. It is very, very common.

You will see this in the vast majority of Syrian foreign fighter profiles. These are people who swing all the way to the other side to basically make up for their moral indiscretions.

LEMON: So why does committing acts of terror make these young men. Young men like you feel like they're avenging their sins?

SHAIKH: Well, this is the whole point. That there is an anger and a lot of times see it is anger directed to the self. A lot of individuals are radical preachers like (inaudible), for example. They rail against the very activities that they themselves use to participate in. So it is really a way to kind of get back at the old self.

LEMON: Was this -- what does this say about an intelligence failure when you look at this, Juliet. It is out there. Does that say anything about an intelligence failure? This person is sort of hiding in plain sight.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I mean, at one level clearly there was an intelligence failure. The question is, was it one, you know was it avoidable given all the noise that is going on throughout the world about potential Jihadists.

As Paul was saying, it is a question of resources. They're real. They are significant when you are in government. You're going to put your focus on this sort of biggest threat. I think the questions that are going to be on going are not simply what did the French know. But also what did the United States know. The disclosures today that both brothers were on a no fly list are significant. The no fly list is not perfect, it's flawed.

The wrong people may be on it. Much more limited than our larger list. Close to 1 million people on it. No fly list is probably under 2,000 people at this stage.

What criteria to put them on a serious list that seemed to not, sort of trigger more concern by the French. It would be curious if we were holding on to the same intelligence.

LEMON: Not only on a no fly list. Paul, but also that one of the suspects trained with al Qaeda in Yemen.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. And that's perhaps where he learned how to use a collection they were able to use with deadly effect. He is thought to have gone there in 2011. Encourage them to launch attacks in the west. More than three years have elapsed since then. Possible the brothers have decided to do this on their own volition or steam, having got some training or at least one of them overseas.

LEMON: What does it say to you if anything that these two perpetrators did not commit suicide, Paul?

CRUICKSHANK: I think the fact that they dent commit suicide was because they wanted to launch more attacks, follow-on attacks, create as much carnage in France as possible, a manhunt going on in Northern France. They belief they have cornered them in this forested area.

If they're able to elude the grasp of authorities, it's possible they could kill again. There was the other shooting in Paris in southern districts of Paris this morning by a gunman of a French police officer. A female French police officer, French police have not ruled out the fact that these two attacks could be connected.

LEMON: If it is and there are three gunmen who are out there possibly. So -- I wanted -- Mubin, what is, what do you make of what Paul said? They didn't commit suicide. They became one of them at least became radicalized quickly. In your experience, is the common experience for, for young people, who are susceptible to this?

SHAIKH: Yes, we have to be careful not to get caught up in caricatures of the terrorist. You know, they could be, they could be a lone wolf. They could be part of a wolf pack. Groups like ISIS, or al Qaeda, like al Qaeda is sophisticated professional, which is not to say that ISIS can't send or at least even produce individuals who are capable of conducting similar kind of attacks.

The fact that they didn't kill themselves -- in, you know a hail of bullets or going off, in a blaze of glory that remains to be seen. They're hiding in a forest unless they brought survival gear. They are not going to last very long there.

So you can see there really wasn't a lot of thinking. They just wanted to do the attack and get out. Look, for all of the glorification, martyrdom that goes on. Not everyone wants to die. Maybe live off to fight another day.

LEMON: I see you shaking your head, Juliette. Do you think he is correct? Do you think that they're plotting or had prepared to plot to, to have a second attack?

KAYYEM: Well, I don't think we can know that right now. There was a major mistake that they made. They wanted to get out. They got into the car accident abandoned the car, which is good news from a law enforcement perspective because that's all sorts of evidence.

But they clearly, carefully plan planned an escape as carefully planned as the attack itself and that's unlike other lone wolf attacks or even to be honest with the Boston marathon bombers here who did something and then clearly did not have any plan for what was going to happen next.

So they were more sophisticated in Paris with this exit and they are now -- isolated afraid that's when people make mistakes. And I would agree, I know this is not going to end -- easily for them.

But I am pretty confident given that they are -- that this was not the strategy they intended. They really did think that they would get way. That the French will be successful and eventually capturing them. It may not be in moments, but it will be relatively soon.

All right, everyone stay right there. When we come right back, could the Paris attack be the first hint of a deadly competition between ISIS and al Qaeda. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Thousands of French police searching for the two brothers wanted in massacre at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. Back with me now, Paul Cruickshank, Juliette Kayyem and Mubin Shaikh.

So Paul, to you first, no one has claimed responsibility for yesterday's attack. But today in a radio broadcast, ISIS called the suspects brave Jihadists. Is a nightmare scenario forming where, al Qaeda in Yemen and ISIS are going to try to one up each another.

CRUICKSHANK: I think there is a possibility of AQAP, Al Qaeda in Yemen are the majority shareholder here. That will do a lot to restore the al Qaeda brand to some relevance in the global Jihadist community after ISIS has been stealing all the headlines in recent months because of their expansion in Syria and Iraq.

So I think some concern that al Qaeda on the one side and ISIS on the other side could kind of try and one up each other. We have seen that to some degree with the Khorasan Group, which is an al Qaeda team in Syria, plotting attacks against western aviation from Syria, learned about that in the fall of last year.

And this concern that ISIS may sort of respond in kind as these two groups try and outdo each other. There is a lot of bad blood between these two groups, the kind of war of words between them. Just a few weeks ago, QAAP, the Yemeni group said it was not legitimate. It deeply angered ISIS.

LEMON: Is there a way, though, Paul, for the west to exploit these divisions to gain intelligence here?

CRUICKSHANK: That will be hard. Western intelligence agencies are going to be looking to that to some degree, but very, very hard to do. I think that the major concern will be they will try to outdo each other in terms of trying to launch attacks in the west, but if these groups are going to war against each other.

To some degree, that's a good thing for the west and other countries in the region particularly in Syria, and if they're at each other's throat, that's probably a good thing for everybody else, and a bad thing if they were to try and combine forces at a certain point.

All right, everyone stand by. We'll get back to you. First our breaking news now on Airasia Flight 8501, Indonesian search-and-rescue teams have detected possible pings in their search for the plane's black boxes.

Flight 8501 vanished on December 28th with 162 people on board, 46 bodies have been recovered so far. They're in the process of being identified.

CNN David Molko joins me now on the phone from Surabaya, Indonesia. David, what are you hearing?

DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, Don. The keyword right now, it is possible. They are certainly a lot going on in the Java Sea right now. A couple of really, really key operations related to those black boxes.

The keyword, possible pings picked up comes from the head of the Indonesia's armed forces. Saying they were picked up by a survey ship near the tail. We don't know, somewhere in the vicinity. CNN divers are headed there to try to get their eyes on the source of the pings tp see if it's potentially the black boxes.

Don, one important to note is acoustics are extremely tricky in shallow waters. We also know from back in MH-370 last year that it can be tough even when you think you have the source of a black box as they did with MH-370.

Underwater acoustics are tricky and there is the potential for false positives with divers in the water and with ships in the area. It's really, really tough to know what the source is until you can get eyes on it.

LEMON: And David, weather will not help in the situation as well. The weather has been poor?

MOLKO: Don, that's right. The weather is deciding the pace of the search. The good news is yesterday and today, Friday, things have improved somewhat allowing divers to get into the water. The other operation I want to tell you about is an operation to take a closer look at the tail of the aircraft. Right now, divers we understand, according to the general in the water trying to tie ropes around that tail section and potentially raise it up, float it, using airbags, and then raise it to the surface.

Visibility, currents presenting, of course, some challenge to teams down there. But if they cooperate there is a chance that that tail section could be raised later today. Of course, no word if the black boxes are still intact and we'll have to see what the divers find with those possible pings a short distance away.

LEMON: CNN's David Molko reporting from Surabaya, Indonesia. I just want to tell our viewers. Breaking news tonight is on Airasia Flight 8501. Indonesia search-and-rescue teams have detected possible, possible pings in the search for the plane.

The 8501, of course, vanished on December 28th, 162 people on board that plane, and again, there have been a number of bodies that have been recovered. So far they are trying to identify most of those bodies.

Again, as David Molko is reporting, it can be tricky, acoustics in shallow water in the sea and also, saying that the weather has not been helping out as well. Of course, it is a rainy season there. We'll back to CNN's David Molko if we get if we get any more information on that.

But I want to get back now to my guests to talk about the attack on "Charlie Hebdo" in Paris yesterday. We were talking about what this means for the intelligence community that these three young men are believed to have been -- have self-radicalized there and that -- the claim of responsibility from, you know, and the competition between ISIS and al Qaeda.

And I was asking you about the -- in the west use any of this to exploit the situation. So how -- and you said that is going to be tough, Paul. How worried though should western nations be about this competition between al Qaeda and ISIS?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, Don, I think we are in a period in the west of unprecedented threat particularly in Europe. I think you could argue that the terrorist threat has never been greater certainly since 9/11.

That's because of the volumes of Europeans who are going off to Syria and Iraq and are fighting there. For example, when it comes to France, you have 400 French nationals fighting there right now, 200 who want to go, 200 on their way and that 200 already back in France.

Those are very big numbers indeed. The worry is that people who have learned how to kill other people when they are over there in Syria and Iraq will come back and launch attacks either because they have been directed to do so by Khorasan or ISIS or Nusra or other groups or because they want to do it on their own steam.

Then there is the whole lone wolf problem as well. ISIS has called for lone wolf attacks across the west. We have seen a whole string of attacks in North America, Australia, in France, just before Christmas, which were ISIS inspired lone wolf attacks -- Don.

LEMON: Mubin, how do we keep young Muslim men and women from feeling disenfranchised, turning to extremist groups to commit these acts of violence?

SHAIKH: We need to deny the extremist narrative and the extremist narrative is shared by the Jihadist. I don't like to use the word Jihadist and criminal extremists, and Muslim-hating extremists. The two exist in a symbiotic union.

One declares that, you know, we are at war with the west and the other declares that Islam is at war with the west. And they each feed into each other. So we need to deny that narrative, first and foremost.

Number two, we need to have an honest conversation also with impact of western foreign policy, look, I mean, grievance and ideology. Those are the two main ingredients when we are dealing with this particular threat.

So I am not saying change the policy completely, but we need to have a more open and honest conversation about the impact of military invasions, you know, ten years of occupation. These things not just attack us in the west, but attack obviously the people who are there.

Number three, to use religion in a positive way, you know, I have, I struggle with this to try to get people to understand that from the religious perspective, these deviant individuals who Islam calls (inaudible).

They are declared to be disbelievers according to the prophet himself, peace be upon him, who declared them to be dogs of hell, to be the worst of creatures that if you find them, kill them. So, I think if we mobilize a strategy that incorporates these and other aspects, we might start to get somewhere.

LEMON: National security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, that's for you. U.S. foreign policy, he says we have to be honest about it and the role it plays.

KAYYEM: I think people are. I mean, these are complicated decisions. Some of these are remnants of decisions made over a decade ago. What we have to remember is, you know, 9/11 now is what, 14, 15 years, nearly 15 years ago. The men that we are seeing now fighting were 5 and 6 years old.

This is a very different phenomenon than the tight-knit al Qaeda group that was responding to our aggression then. So there is just a list of grievances about the United States. That no administration is going to be able to deal with in totality.

But I think it is right. I think that there needs to be a conversation. But the conversation exists in parallel with of course the strong counterterrorism efforts and homeland security efforts to protect against what is clearly a new kind of threat and noisier threat, as Paul was saying.

A sort of stranger threat because it is harder to predict. And, one that, is -- going to sort of hit the soft targets that we didn't anticipate before. Look, we know how to protect a nuclear facility. We know how to protect the VIP or the president or prime minister.

It is targets like what we saw this week that democracies are going to have -- and they're always going to have.

LEMON: Paul, it's also manpower too. As we heard our justice reporter, Evan Perez says, it is manpower intensive and they just don't feel that they have the resources to track everyone.

CRUICKSHANK: That is absolutely right. Particularly in Europe, where the numbers of radicals that are the on the monitor list are just staggering. I mean, we are talking about 5,000 individuals in France who they're monitoring to various degrees.

You can't monitor all but just a small fraction of those people 24/7 because of the prohibitive expense. So in the past few months we have seen quite a lot of plots and attacks by people who were on the radar screen of authorities to varying degrees.

We saw that in Canada. For example, also in Australia, this guy in Australia, the attacker there was on the radar screen of the Australian authorities. But time and time again, even people on radar screen, that they knew about managing to launch attacks. Never mind people who aren't on the radar screen at all.

LEMON: Yes. All right, thanks to all of you. Appreciate the conversation. See you soon here on CNN.

Our breaking news from France, a manhunt for two armed and dangerous suspects in the Paris terror attack on satirical cartoonists at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine.

When we come right back, a man who has paid a high price for the freedom to offend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The satirical cartoonists at "Charlie Hebdo" paid a terrible price for freedom of speech, and sadly they are not the only ones. CNN's Sara Sidner has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If anyone knows about paying the price for the right to be offensive, it is Larry Flint, the founder and publisher of Hustler now an American porn empire.

LARRY FLYNT, FOUNDER, LARRY FLYNT PUBLICATIONS, INC.: Free speech is only important if it is offensive. If you are not going to offend anybody you don't need protection of the first amendment.

SIDNER: Nearly four decade before the attack in Paris, Flynt survived an assassination attempt and was paralyzed from the waist down when another type of extremist, a white supremacist, targeted him for these pornographic pictures of an interracial couple.

A few years later, a wheelchair bound Flynt found himself in a huge legal battle. The case ended up in the Supreme Court, this time over a satirical piece targeting Evangelical Preacher Jerry Falwell.

FLYNT: What a lot of people don't realize is the first 200 years of the history of this country, parody and satire was not protected speech. And it is only when I won the court case with Reverend Jerry Falwell in 1988 that satire and parody became protected speech.

SIDNER: Flynt is sickened by what happened in Paris and says magazines like "Charlie Hebdo" in France should be celebrated. In his eyes, the world has gotten far more dangerous for provocateurs since he was shot. And he puts the blame for that squarely on Islamic extremists.

FLYNT: You know, some of the European countries, have a lot of emigration by Arab fundamentalists and Muslim have got a huge problem that they have got to deal with.

SIDNER: Flynt says we should all be worried about the chilling effect of terror on artists, satirists, and journalists.

FLYNT: Although that is a horrifying incident that happened in Paris, we can't be scapegoated into being afraid to live our lives because we are -- because well are going to fall victim to the same sort of misfits, you know. We have -- it is a disease in society that we have to fight.

SIDNER: First amendment lawyer, Doug Mirell, says, the battle lines over free speech have been drawn again.

DOUG MIRELL, FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER: If you law people to be intimidated by the terrorists, the terrorists have won.

SIDNER: From the initial reaction to the attack on "Charlie Hebdo," he says the opposite has happened.

MIRELL: The terrorists in this incident clearly did strike a blow. But what they have done in doing what they did is I think galvanized the entire world.

SIDNER: For "Charlie Hebdo," the war over words and images isn't over. Editors are about to publish a new issue next week. Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Coming up, an eyewitness to the attack on the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," why he says he is not afraid.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The deadly terror attack in Paris happened in the middle of what had been until then a normal working day. A day that suddenly turned tragic

With me now is journalist, Benoit Bringer, his office is next door to "Charlie Hebdo" office. He saw the attackers in the street. Please take me back to yesterday. What did you see?

BENOIT BRINGER, JOURNALIST, WITNESS TO "CHARLIE HEBDO'S" ATTACK: I mean, my office is just next door to the "Charlie Hebdo's" office. We are on the same floor, really. It is only two meters between our two doors. One of my colleagues want done to smoke a cigarette in the streets.

When it was on the ground floor, he just saw -- behind the glass door, a man -- all in black with sneaker and the men who are shooting like this. And he heard them, the noise. He saw the guy and went back to the office.

He said there was a man in the building you have to call the police. So I was in my office and one of my colleagues came and said there are guys all in black, masked face, geared man with sneaker in the building. It is not possible. We are in Paris.

I used to work in Kabul or Islamabad. I could be -- I was prepared when I was there. We said it is not possible. We called the police. We had to protect the people because maybe 15 or 20 in the office. We went to the roof.

Because there was a window and we can access the roof from our office. And we went to the roof, we heard shooting, automatic weapon. I know this. I have been in some place. We say (inaudible) we got to the roof. There was a lot of shooting during, I don't know. Maybe it was 5 or 10 minutes.

But for us it was like an eternity and we just have to wait for the policeman to arrive. We saw in the street because from the roof we can see the street and we saw three policemen on the bicycle and a citizen on the left.

The entrance is on the left and the three on the other direction. And in fact it was because of the gunman went down to the building and start to shoot at the policeman in the street. We saw the scene it was like in the war in the middle of Paris.

LEMON: And as you said the office is right next door to you and that the "Charlie Hebdo" office was fire bombed back in 2011. They were on the al Qaeda's most wanted list and in "Inspire" magazine. Do you think that somehow that they should have been more careful or they should have changed their coverage or tried not to be so satirical, so controversial?

BRINGER: Definitely not. They were journalists. They were just doing their job -- journalists, cartoonist, satirical magazine. It's just freedom of expression. It's very important, you know, in America, in France also.

So no, of course not, just keep doing this. Maybe we can ask if -- they should have more protection, security around the building. That's the situation because they arrived in the building maybe seven months ago "Charlie Hebdo."

For the first months there was protection. Policemen in front of the building, but since maybe three months, they left the place and we, we, there was no -- no visible protection in front of the building. That is a creation we can ask.

LEMON: You are a journalist, a documentary filmmaker as well, do you feel threatened now?

BRINGER: I am not afraid right now. Anyway, we have to continue, but the only option to say that they would never win. They've will never win against freedom of expression, of speech against liberty -- against human values. It's not possible.

We will not let this happen again. We will continue to do our work. You can be agree or not with what "Charlie Hebdo" was doing. Let them express what they want to express. That is a principle.

LEMON: Yes. Benoit Bringer --

BRINGER: It is important.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

BRINGER: OK.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, 80,000 police and army personnel mobilize across France. Helicopters with night vision tools searching for two armed and dangerous suspects in the deadly attack on the office of "Charlie Hebdo."

The hunt focused on the region in Northern France, that's after police helicopter caught sight of what investigators believed to be the suspects on foot in the woods near (inaudible). A gas station attendant reports that the armed brothers stole gas and food from the station just a few miles away.

I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us. Our coverage continues now with Zain Asher and Errol Barnett at the CNN Center in Atlanta.