Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Boko Haram Massacred Thousands in Nigeria; Terror Attack in France Raising Anti-Semitic Concerns; Black Boxes Recovered From AirAsia Flight 8501; France on High Alert; Analyzing Video of Paris Terror Suspect; U.S. Leadership Absent from Paris Rally
Aired January 12, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Tonight, breaking news, the world on high alert. The French prime minister warning the country must remain vigilant to the possibility of more terror attacks. One report claiming six suspects may still be on the loose. 18,000 soldiers and police deployed all across the country. Officials say sleeper cells may have been activated.
What does a videotape show? U.S. intelligence agents reviewing frame by frame, new video of shooting suspect, Amedy Coulibaly. We're going to ask a former jihadists what clues he sees on the video.
"Charlie Hebdo" publishing this week. CNN has obtained video of the magazine's team drawing their new issue despite the murders of 12. The satirical magazine hits newsstands on Wednesday with a record one million copy print run. And on the cover, a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed holding a sign that says "I am Charlie."
And the White House faux pas. The video tells the story here. Dozens of world leaders joining more than a million people at an anti- terrorism rally in Paris. So where was President Obama? Or Vice President Biden? Or other high profile administration officials. The White House admitting one of them should have been there. Will U.S. relations with France suffer?
There's also breaking news to tell you about in the search for AirAsia Flight 8501 at the bottom of the Java Sea. Investigators have covered a key piece of the wreckage that will help determine what caused the jet to crash.
We're going to begin, though, with the developments in the Paris terror attack. A lot of ground to cover tonight.
I want to get straight to CNN's Jim Sciutto who is in Paris for us this evening.
Jim, MI5, Britain's intelligence service, warning that al Qaeda is plotting a massacre of civilians in Britain and other Western countries. Are there more sleeper cells preparing to strike?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big question here in France is, are there remaining suspects at large in these Paris attacks? It's been a burning question since the moment nearly a week ago when those gunmen stormed into "Charlie Hebdo." The French prime minister telling CNN today that it is likely that there are accomplices still at large.
There's a report today from AP quoting French police saying as many six suspects, unclear whether the suspects actually involved in the attack or associates of the attackers, but this is still a question that French investigators have to answer.
And I think, frankly, Don, they don't know the answer yet. And that's why you're seeing such an enormous show of force across France. Thousands of soldiers and police preparing for the worst possibility. And, you know, the level of concern tonight is very severe.
LEMON: So Djamel Beghal is being called al Qaeda's chief recruiter in Europe and tonight there's news that two of the terrorists are connected to him. What do you know about that?
SCIUTTO: This is a big deal. So he was al Qaeda -- we're talking about core al Qaeda, based in Pakistan, formerly held by bin Laden. Al Qaeda's chief recruiter in Europe, tied to not only the "Charlie Hebdo" attackers, but also Amedy Coulibaly, who took that kosher market.
This draws a direct line to overseas terror organizations and, you know, to this point, the discussion had been, is Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, which the "Charlie Hebdo" attackers said they were tied to, you also have Coulibaly, the kosher market attacker, saying that he pledged allegiance to ISIS. Now you have a direct tie to core al Qaeda in Pakistan.
You know, it's a confusing mix of allegiances here, but the bottom line is direct lines to overseas terrorist organizations. You know, why do we care about this back home in the U.S.? Because each of these groups are ones that U.S. counter-terror officials believe pose a real threat to the U.S. And it shows them active in a way and with an MO, frankly, that has been different from their M.O. in the past. You know, it expands the severity of the threat tonight.
LEMON: Hayat Boumeddiene had believed that she was in the kosher market during the time of the hostage takeover there. But we now have video showing her entering Turkey on January 2nd, Jim. She left for Syria on January 8th. That seems to rule her out as an active participant in that grocery store attack. And as of now, there's no indication about who the man is who's traveling with her.
But what do you know about her involvement?
SCIUTTO: Well, here's the thing. You know, even if she left before the attacks, it is still believed among French authorities that she was directly tied, not just her personal relationship with Amedy Coulibaly who took the kosher market, companion or wife, but, you know, clearly a personal relationship there. But there are descriptions in court papers here that she might have been the more radical of the two, that she encouraged him, pushed him to be more radical. And in addition to that, she had direct ties through phone call
records, to the wives of -- or at least the wife of one of the Kouachi brothers who attacked "Charlie Hebdo." So she was integrated and somehow connected to the plot there, even if she wasn't present on the days -- the days, I should say, that the attacks took place. You know, the sad fact is that she managed to get out of the country before French authorities could get her, and she's effectively disappeared into Syria now, so that's one lost lead in this investigation.
LEMON: Jim, stay right there because I want to bring in my panel now. We're going to talk a lot more about that and other things.
Paul Cruickshank is the CNN terrorism analyst and the co-author of "Agents Storm." And also Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, CNN military analyst and retired Delta Force commander and CEO of Tiger Swan.
So, Paul, you just heard the news that the two Paris terror suspects are connected to Djamel Beghal, al Qaeda's chief recruiter in Europe and said Kouachi traveled to Yemen in 2011 and according to reporters, he roomed with the so-called underwear bomber and prayed with him.
Are most of these radicals connected?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think the short answer is yes, in France, that these attackers were connected and that some of them had connections back to al Qaeda suddenly in Yemen. One of the Kouachi brothers believed to have trained with al Qaeda in Yemen in 2011. Perhaps even both brothers trained with the group.
And the brothers may also have met with Anwar al-Awlaki, the American terrorist cleric, who was someone determined to recruit people like the Kouachi brothers for attacks back in the West. They're also mentored by this guy, Beghal, and Beghal was very much part of the al Qaeda set-up in Afghanistan before 9/11. He was recruited by senior al Qaeda leaders to launch an attack on the U.S. embassy in France after 9/11.
The attack was going to be after 9/11. He was recruited before 9/11. He was actually directed in bin Laden's house to launch that operation, Don, though he does not seem to have met bin Laden himself. Since then, Beghal has been in and out of prison. He's in prison right now.
LEMON: Six terror suspects still on the loose, Colonel Reese. How urgent is this manhunt? How dangerous are these six suspects if they are still, in fact, out there?
LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RETIRED), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Don, anywhere -- and good evening. And anywhere out there it's very dangerous. And one of the things we really want to do is, you know, terrorist cells, I mean, there's a doctrine to this. And we've seen throughout history since 9/11 that, you know, the number 10 really starts coming into. You know, you've got operating aspects and you got folks that support them. Kind of like a front office, back office type piece. But these people are important, especially when it comes to trying to
find out where the link-up was, where the money is coming from, where the coordination, where the weapon is coming from, so these people are dangerous but it'd be great to find them and capture them and be able to interview them and to find out where the links are so we could break this network up and especially the world network.
LEMON: So, Colonel, you know, Jim Sciutto just reported -- he said that he learned that Hayat Boumeddiene, the wife of Coulibaly, may have been more radical of the two suspects. Are you surprised that she is maybe the more radical of the two?
REESE: No, Don, I'm not. And actually it's classic. I mean, you know, some of these organizations really, you know, they say -- they depress women, but women are very, very good, they're very smart. And I think it's a classic move by al Qaeda to get more women involved in this.
You never look at a woman, especially, you know, with a Muslim woman with a hijab on, with a man. They continue to move. No one really pays attention to them. You see that now with the little girl in Boko Haram. She's a suicide bomber. We've seen other places in Iraq and Afghanistan where they have the burqas on and they're using them as suicide bombers, because our culture, the Western culture, just does not look -- make a woman be that principal aspect of a terrorist. And so we bypass it. It's a great move by al Qaeda.
LEMON: Well, the pressure is on, I would imagine, for French officials, Jim, because it -- how hard will it be to find her in Syria?
SCIUTTO: Extremely hard. It's a sad fact. That's a loss. She's in Syria. She's gone. The focus now is on trying to find suspects or associates of the known attackers here inside France before they attack again. That's the supreme focus. And, you know, remember, in this country, it's not just this cell, it is other cells because the numbers are daunting here, 5,000 suspected terrorists in the country. That's an order of magnitude bigger than the problem facing us in the U.S. today.
Imagine the security response in the U.S., if you had 5,000 people on your list of trying to keep -- you know, trying to keep track of them. Imagine the sense of alarm. And that's why I have to say, just being here in Paris for this last week, seeing how the French have responded to this threat. People still -- you know, they're going to restaurants, they're walking the streets, they're going to the office. We saw them out by the millions in that march yesterday.
It's a really admirable, brave, courageous response to what's a very real threat.
LEMON: All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. Lots more to talk about here this evening.
What clues are on the tape? U.S. intelligence officials are analyzing video of Paris shooting suspect Amedy Coulibaly. And there were no high-profile American officials at yesterday's giant
anti-terrorism rally in Paris. What happened? The White House on the defense now, admitting it made a mistake.
And a major break in the search for wreckage and answers in the AirAsia disaster. Searchers have recovered a key piece of the doomed -- doomed jet.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Intelligence agents analyzing the new video of Amedy Coulibaly, the suspect from the kosher market attack in Paris. But what clues can we take from this tape?
I want to bring in now, justice correspondent Evan Perez. He joins us now in D.C.
So, Evan, we know that U.S. intelligence officials are now reviewing the videotape of Amedy Coulibaly. What are they looking for?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you know, they're looking for to try to get a sense of when it was -- when it was recorded. You could tell that it was done in several different sessions. You could tell, for example, that he has facial hair, a little more facial growth before -- during certain parts of the video. You can also tell that some of it was recorded before the Kouachi brothers carried out the attack on the magazine, "Hebdo" -- "Charlie Hebdo."
So that among the things they're looking at. They're also trying to figure out whether this man had some assistance from perhaps a network of helpers there, because they believe that he was not alone, that he -- somebody was either running the cameras for him, somebody was perhaps, you know, assisting him in trying to get his message together. And now the effort is to try to figure out who those people are.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk about here at home, DHS, FBI. What are they doing tonight to make sure Americans are safe at home and abroad, really?
PEREZ: Well, you know, DHS is increasing the number of random screenings for domestic flights. You know that earlier -- a few months ago they said that they were going to do more random checks of flights coming from certain overseas airports to the United States. They say that they're increasing some of that in the United States for people traveling domestically with hand-carried luggage.
DHS also says that they're going to increase their presence at federal buildings, randomly, Don, because one of the things that we know, that we've seen in some of these threats from ISIS and also from al Qaeda groups, is that they're asking their followers to carry out attacks against federal law enforcement, U.S. law enforcement officials. And so the question is, you know, whether there's a greater danger at some of those federal buildings.
LEMON: Evan Perez, CNN justice correspondent. Thank you, Evan.
Joining me now, Mia Bloom, professor of Security Studies at University of Massachusetts-Lowell, and the author of "Bombshell," and Mubin Shaikh, a jihadist turned undercover counterterrorism operative and author of "Undercover Jihadi."
Good evening to both of you.
Mubin, you are a former jihadist. I want to ask you about this video of Amedy Coulibaly. In it, he identifies himself as a soldier of the caliphate and pledges allegiances to ISIS head Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMEDY COULIBALY, SUSPECTED TERRORIST (Through Translator): You attack the caliph, you attack ISIS, we attack you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What stands out to you in this video, Mubin?
MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Well, I mean, just if you look at the backdrop, of course, you have your flag. This is just do-it-yourself terrorism. So the flag is a print-out. You know, he's dressed in the white garb, maybe playing a little bit on the martyrdom complex, wearing the white robes of burial, basically. It's called the kafan. But it's to resemble that. The symbolism of wearing the white. And of course you have the AK propped up just like, you know, bin Laden had in his videos --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So who is he mimicking here? Is he mimicking -- is he mimicking al Qaeda? What's he doing?
SHAIKH: Well, so this is -- yes, at the general level. Remember, ISIS is a product of al Qaeda. So at some level they're generally the same. So you can say he's imitating al Qaeda, but like he says, he starts with al Qaeda and then he ends up giving allegiance to the -- the so-called caliphate in mid 2014.
LEMON: OK. So, Mubin, on Friday, a journalist spoke with Cherif Kouachi, and he claimed that he was sent by al Qaeda in Yemen and that Anwar al-Awlaki financed this trip. Now this video we have of Coulibaly pledging allegiance to ISIS. What do you make of that?
SHAIKH: So that doesn't take away from the al Qaeda planning and directing. Like I said, I mean, al Qaeda's said this before. I mean, don't seek our permission, just go and conduct the attack. And basically if it's a good attack, we'll take credit for it. The fact that Coulibaly and his wife were -- are pro-ISIS gives consolation to the ISIS side. So basically you have both al Qaeda and ISIS able to basically take the credit for the attack. LEMON: OK.
Mia, we've talked about this in the United States, about people meeting in prison and becoming radicalized. These men met in prison. You say that they should be treated more as criminals playing terrorists rather than terrorist masterminds, why?
MIA BLOOM, AUTHOR, "BOMBSHELL": Well, I don't think that they're terrorist masterminds. I think that Mubin was correct a few days ago when he said that they were not particularly professional. They were amateurish. And I think the fact that they left behind their identity cards in the vehicle after the accident demonstrates that you can have a certain minimum amount of training. But the moment something goes wrong, then that amateurishness emerges. And they're incapable of making a snap, quick decision and readjustment.
I wanted to add one thing, Don. And I think Mubin didn't say this so I want to add to it, is that it's very important we see these last will and testament videos because it does a few things. One, it makes sure that the operative doesn't change his mind at the last minute. And it also brands the attack because what we have is you don't have a last will and testament video.
Sometimes when we have this competition that you've identified, Don, that you may have multiple groups trying to have these claims of responsibility because they think it's going to make them more popular. And I think that's one of the reasons we see a last will and testament video to make sure that the group that perpetrated the attack gets the so-called credit.
LEMON: So, Mia, you know, the female suspect that we have been discussing, Hayat Boumeddiene, is believed to have escaped to Syria. What role do you think she will play in future plots?
SHAIKH: Is that for me?
LEMON: Mia. It's for Mia.
BLOOM: Oh, sorry. You know, one of the things that we've seen as women who go and join ISIS, although they may think that they're going to have an operational role, so for example, the woman who left from Denver, Shannon Maureen Connelly, who trained with the U.S. Army Explorers, as well as even Aksa Mahmud, who talked about on her Twitter account and social media that she wanted to be a suicide bomber.
The fact is the moment these women get to Syria, ISIS is going to have them married off and pregnant pretty quickly. They do not have operational roles for women for ISIS. That's very different from al Qaeda.
LEMON: You're not surprised that she may have been the more radical of the two, are you, Mia?
BLOOM: No. And we talked about this a few days ago. We anticipated this even before the lawyer for Coulibaly was interviewed, that very often it's the women who are the ones who are ensuring that the man is radical, stays in the organization, doesn't change his mind at the last minute.
And so we have to really dispel the myths that women are inherently going to be either, you know, manipulated, or they're just following the men, or that they're inherently more peaceful. We have to know that women are not automatically more peaceful. LEMON: How important is it, Mubin, that jihadists have a female
companion?
SHAIKH: It's important, I mean, in the sense of -- you know, how -- again, back to caricatures. You have this mythology that terrorists are men and most of the time they are. But it's a level of comfort. You're not really going to suspect a couple. You know, the caricature is it's a bunch of guys, right, looking to do something. And so it does kind of change the mix-up a bit.
But like Mia said, I mean, her involving herself, this is most probably a decision among the inner-most circle of the cell. If there are other members of the cell maybe we'll find out later, but this was something that was probably arranged and agreed upon by the individuals conducting the operation.
At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. The event has to be successful and the organization has to be able to take credit for it.
LEMON: Mubin and Mia, thank you very much.
The massacre of its staffers has not stopped "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. Videos shows the magazine seen working on their new issue. There it is right there. And it hits stands on Wednesday with a provocative cover featuring a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: World leaders rallying behind France. Here we see them locking arms in solidarity against terrorism on the streets of Paris, but there was one notable absence.
Jim Sciutto is back with us from Paris. And the yesterday the notable absent leader was President Obama. What's the reaction there in Paris, Jim?
SCIUTTO: Listen, there's been disappointment since the beginning. I've talked to a lot of people on the street and French commentators. They were surprised, didn't quite understand. I mean, listen, you know, still caught up in the moment here with such an incredible national turn-out. Beyond the international turnout, I think the French focused on the 3.7 million French who were here.
But there is confusion as to why the Americans weren't here in a more prominent role. And you saw the White House basically grant that today in a statement from Josh Earnest, saying that they, you know, acknowledging they should have sent someone more senior.
LEMON: All right. Jim Sciutto, in Paris. Jim, thank you very much. Appreciate your reporting.
Fareed Zakaria is here. He's the host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS."
Now, Fareed, do you believe that a higher U.S. official should be there or do you think the president should have been there?
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: I think the president should have been there.
LEMON: The president should have been there.
ZAKARIA: I think that certainly there were many people who could have gone. I think the key would have been to recognize the symbolism here and say, you know, this is our oldest ally, our this is our closest ideological ally. France and America in a sense invented modern democracy. And to stand shoulder-and-shoulder would have been important.
So the person needed to be somebody of a stature, who would have been in that shot that you showed, right?
LEMON: Then that would be the president.
ZAKARIA: And that would be the president.
LEMON: Because here's what --
(CROSSTALK)
ZAKARIA: Maybe it would have been Bill Clinton.
LEMON: You -- like so many of us, so you're questioning why there wasn't a higher presence there. You said, "Why no U.S. leader in Paris rally? Isn't this why God invented vice presidents?" And I'm sure the White House must have seen that because the briefing today, the press secretary Josh Earnest responded. Let's listen and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Some have asked whether or not the United States should have sent someone with a higher profile than the ambassador to France. And I think it's fair to say that we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there. That said, there is no doubt that the American people and this administration stand four-square behind our allies in France as they face down this threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Higher profile again, you think it should be the president. But it's pretty rare for the White House to admit a mistake like this. ZAKARIA: It's very rare. And frankly, I give them a lot of credit.
This is one way to frankly diffuse the story and stop people like us from talking about it, but I hope that what it reflects, though, is a broader recognition that in this struggle, symbolism is substance. After all, I mean, they only killed 12 people, I would hate to put it that way. Why was it such a big deal? Because of the symbolism.
They attacked a symbol of democracy, the freedom of the press. And the response to it was also symbolic. It was unity. It was not a vengeance. It was not a wrath. It was a way of showing we're not going to get divided on the basis of religion. We're going to come together.
And in that symbol of unity, a global unity, the United States plays a pivotal role, and was very said, I think. I said --
LEMON: The most pivotal role.
ZAKARIA: Right. I say this as an American, not just as a journalist, it was sad that my country wasn't out there.
LEMON: The people marching and the leaders marching, that wasn't about policy change, that was about showing as you said, support and rallying against terrorism worldwide. You remember Jacques Chirac after 9/11, was the first leader to visit, right? The United States. France, as you mentioned earlier, our first and one of our biggest supporters. Is this gonna to change the relationship?
ZAKARIA: Oh, no.
LEMON: No?
ZAKARIA: And I think at a governmental level, it's a -- you know, the substance (ph) level. There's, there's very strong cooperation, there always was. Even during the height of the Iraq war when the French disagreed with the United States on the Iraq war, they were still very good allies on the war against terrorism. The French are very tough on counterterrorism. People have the impression now that because this has happened, that somehow France is lax, they're not, they're very tough. This stuff can happen anywhere. So I think they'll probably be as supportive.
LEMON: What about the idea that President Obama, the administration is showing its support more directly by helping in the fight against terrorism by drone strikes and by other initiatives rather than just going as a symbolic act to Paris to take part in this? What about that?
ZAKARIA: I think it's -- the flaw in that thinking is to think of it as just a symbolic act. This is a case where symbolism is substance. Because, so much of the ways that the people think about these issues are, you know, it's a battle of hearts and minds. It's a question of where the civilized world is. It's a question, are we coming together? And in those questions, the symbolism is the substance. You know, the odd thing about Barack Obama is, he recognizes the symbolism very well when campaigning. He's -- you know, he's a master at it. He's a master at understanding how important it was to get the symbols right, to make the right speech at the right time. Remember, the Reverend Wright speech and the way he rescued his campaign with a great symbolic act. Didn't change his policy on anything right?
LEMON: Right.
ZAKARIA: But when governing, he tends to be more cerebral, more intellectual, which I appreciate and understand. But, politics is also about substance.
LEMON: Hasn't that been the criticism all along? We're getting a little far if you -- he's a better campaigner, because many people have called him the campaigner in chief, you've heard that rather than, you know, someone who can who -- does policy --
ZAKARIA: I'm not willing to say he's bad at it, because frankly, a lot of the decisions he had to make as president have been very tough and bold and he's made them, in my opinion, by and large pretty well. But this is his weakness.
LEMON: OK.
ZAKARIA: He said it by the way in a TV interview, he said, I try to get the policy right. I don't worry about the optics and maybe that's a mistake.
LEMON: Yeah.
ZAKARIA: And you know what? He's right, it is a mistake.
LEMON: OK. So Yahoo gets a reaction to this tweet. I don't think I -- I got some folks last week, but you were here and I don't think it came out in time. This is from Rupert Murdoch, OK. A lot of people have taken offense to this. He tweeted, "Maybe most Muslims are peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer, they must be held responsible." What do you think?
ZAKARIA: Oh, it's incredibly irresponsible from him just to say -- first of all, you know, read that it says, because by saying maybe most Muslims are moderate -- how does it go?
LEMON: It says, maybe most Muslims -- peaceful.
ZAKARIA: Maybe most Muslims --
LEMON: Maybe it's right.
ZAKARIA: So it's like 1.6 billion people. Take France, just France. 5 million Muslims, the French intelligence says, there are 5,000 that is their largest number whom they suspect, OK? And they watch. 5,000 out of 5 million, if Mr. Murdoch can do the math, I will for him, it's 0.1 percent of French Muslims. So, 99.99 percent -- by the French government's own estimate are peaceful.
LEMON: Yeah. ZAKARIA: Now, that's where is me more than, you know, maybe most Muslims. And secondly, he says they should be held responsible. As you know, I've been saying from day one...
LEMON: Yes.
ZAKARIA: Modern Muslims need to denounce this thing, to come out against this. They need to be sure -- but, that's different from saying...
LEMON: Saying they were responsible, yeah.
ZAKARIA: Being responsible for the acts of .1 percent of the people in France...
LEMON: Yeah.
ZAKARIA: Who were you know, were Muslim.
LEMON: What you're doing -- what's you're doing, you're not blaming anyone. You're saying people should stand up and speak out against it. Which I think is...
ZAKARIA: And reclaim their religion and...
LEMON: It was a very fair assessment. It was a very fair assessment. I Just -- really quickly, I want to get -- what's your reaction to the new Charlie Hebdo edition coming out on Wednesday?
ZAKARIA: You know it is part of a long tradition of French political satire which is much more -- much rougher than in America.
LEMON: Because of prophet Muhammad.
ZAKARIA: Look, if yes, depicts the prophet Muhammad openly. If -- look, if this were to be published on a college campus in America, it would be shut down, the students would be brought before the dean for -- you know, hate speech or offensive. The France will not like that. And frankly, I celebrate the fact that the France has a very rich tradition of political satire which says we're gonna be -- we gonna offend everybody. And I think it's important to really remember, we defend free speech not of -- not for the speech that we all agree with. We have to defend speech for the speech we find offensive.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Fareed Zakaria, appreciated, always good to have you here. I want to talk more about terrorism here. The fundamentalist group Boko Haram, stepping up his deadly attacks in Nigeria. Major assault on the town of Baga, and its neighboring village sys is said to have killed hundreds, and possibly up to 2,000 people. Actress Angelina Jolie is a special envoy of the United Nations released a statement that says in part, each new crime committed by Boko Haram exceeds the last in brutality. Every time they get away with mass murder, rape, and the enslavement of women and children, they are emboldened. We'll continue to follow this story, when Boko Haram out of Nigeria. And coming up, the terror attack on the kosher market in Paris left four dead, and it's causing concern among France's Jewish community. But the disturbing trend of anti- Semitism in France is not exclusive to this latest attack. More on that, next
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It's a Breaking News into CNN now. Israeli media reporting that the bodies of the four men killed by Amedy Coulibaly in the siege on the kosher market in France have arrived in Israel.
At Israel's Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv, CNN International Correspondent Ian Lee joins us now from Israel. They will be very -- their end Israel, Ian, what's the very latest?
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you're right. We're hearing that those bodies have arrived to Ben Gurion Airport with their family members. They'll be brought here to Jerusalem. The road leading to the cemetery is lined with French flags. That funeral will take place around noon local time, that's 5 a.m. eastern time. We're expecting dignitaries and politicians, including the prime minister and president of Israel. There'll be -- this will -- it's expected to be quite a long service as different eulogies are given, but really today is going to be for those family members and friends saying goodbye to their loves ones.
LEMON: Let's talk about the issue that's happening in France. In 2014, nearly 7,000 French Jews immigrated to Israel, double the number from the previous year. Will this continue and is Israel ready to receive them?
LEE: Well, that number is actually expected to reach 10,000 this year, Don. I was down in Ashdod, a city on the Mediterranean coast, where a lot of these French immigrants reside. And I talked to one developer he said that he has had a lot of interest from France in his apartments, a lot of people expecting to come there. Talking to some of these residents, I asked them why did they leave, why they felt necessary to get out of France and they said it boils down to security. They just didn't feel safe anymore. One mother told me that her four children, she would make them take off anything that identifies them as being Jewish before leaving the house. When I asked them if their friends and family were going to follow suit soon, she said that almost everyone she knows is going to try to immigrate to Israel, Don.
LEMON: All right. Wow, thank you very much, Ian Lee, we appreciated, reporting from Israel.
Joining me now is Rabbi Schmuley Boteach, American Orthodox rabbi, author, TV host and a public speaker. And Rula Jebreal is a foreign policy analyst the author of Miral. Rabbi, that bad in France for Jews?
RABBI SCHMULEY BOTEACH, AMERICAN ORTHODOX RABBI: Don, let's see, 2012 we watched three children and their father slaughtered by a terrorist on a motorcycle. This past summer, while Israel was fighting for its life against thousands of Hamas rockets, there was a pogrom at a synagogue in middle of Paris that could barely be stop by the police. And then, Jewish shops were ransacked. It was a Jewish store that was burned to the ground. Now we have the terrible story of Charlie Hebdo and the satirists were targeted by Islamic extremist, because they said they were insulting the prophet Muhammad, but then of course, that's never an excuse for murder -- despicable. But where did the Jews come into this? What did it have to do with slaughtering four Jews at a supermarket of all places?
Jews are afraid to wear Yamakas, they're afraid of external identification as Jews. Now, when you look to deploy an army of 10,000 soldiers -- 10,000 soldiers -- to defend your native Jewish population, what does that say? About the hatred, the racism and the hostility. Look, Selma is big film in the theaters right now. We deploy a few hundred federal troops, troops that were federalized to secure that march. Imagine if we had to deploy an army, then we would see as we did then, that the south was about racism, it was hatred, and now the Jews are the targets of this, it's very disturbing we have to take it seriously.
LEMON: Yeah, Rula and I were talking a little bit earlier about this and France has one of the largest Jewish communities in Europe, 500,000 people. The Muslim population rising in France as well, the largest in Western Europe, is that creating this conflict, this influx, all these influx -- this influx of people? What is it Rula?
RULA JEBREAL, AUTHOR OF MIRAL: I think France would not be same without its Jews. I think democracy is how you protect your minorities, how you make them feel at home. The best thing about -- I think electing President Obama is telling the rest of the world how you need to be fair and inclusive to your minority. We were talking before, Don, as you mentioned, about Selma. It's about -- not only the protection, but also about making them feel at home and part of the society. 5 million Muslims there, but you have a smallest number, as Fareed Zakaria mentioned, of radical extremists who killed also Muslims as well. Remember, the police officer that was killed, Asmad (ph) was a Muslim. But another Muslim defended those Jews and hit them. You have an issue with anti-Semitism and the rise of anti- Semitism in Europe and you have also an issue with anti-immigration. People will use --
LEMON: So, where is all of this coming from? That's a question that people here, who are -- people are watching in America, where is all of this coming from?
JEBREAL: It comes from the same place.
BOTEACH: With all due respect --
LEMON: Go ahead, Rabbi.
BOTEACH: Well, let's be honest. I mean, to separate the anti-Semitism growing in France and in many other European countries, because Jews don't feel comfortable in almost any place in Europe today. It cannot be separated from constant Islamic incitement. Now, I believe Islam is a great world region. I think Rula is portraying Islam the way it should be portray. Having said that, we're not hearing enough of the mainstream Muslims condemning the incitement against Jews, not talking about Israel, not talking about political policy -- foreign policy, we're talking about cartoons of Jews with giant noses in Arab states sponsored media. We're talking about Hamas with a Genocidal Charter. A Genocidal Charter, calling for the annihilation and extermination of every Jew on planet earth and people defending Hamas. And not saying that if you want to be seen with any kind of legitimacy, you cannot have a charter calling for every Jew to be slaughtered. So, with all due respect, I would like to see my Muslim brothers and sisters, I wanna see a million Muslim march, not just 3 1/2 million French men and women marching. Muslims have to take the religion back from monsters. You can no longer say, this is a small minority, inciting and the Semitism against Jews. On the contrary, it's entering the body politic, because it's not being sufficiently repudiated and condemn...
LEMON: OK.
BOTEACH: By the mainstream on a large scale as it mark.
LEMON: All right. I want Rula to get in because Fareed Zakaria just said the same thing that Muslims have to take their religion back. What do you -- do you?
JABREAL: I think the religion has been hijacked by these extremists. But they are taking it back. For the first time I'm seeing millions of people -- remember in back marched --
LEMON: What do you think he said? H said he wants to see millions of Muslims -- a million Muslim marched.
JABREAL: I think that's a great idea. And I want to invite with that. Let's look also about the history of what's been happening. Iraq, Syria, Palestine, these were the most secular places on -- or in the Middle East, the most secular until 2003. But then we see the rise of these extremists and they're connected to certain policies. We need to separate extremists from regular, ordinary Muslims. We can't -- we can also blame them for their own suffering, whether it's Iraq, in Syrian elsewhere. Because they're really frontline fighting this battle, whether it's in Iraq, in Syria, and many other territories, and even within Palestinian territories. But I want to tell to Rabbi, this is really something that we learned from Selma, as you mentioned. When you uphold the supremacy of one ethnic group, this is not the democracy anymore, this is an ethnocracy. (ph) We need to reject that whether it's in Europe, Israel, or here in America. We can't have segregation as an answer. It's inclusion and unity.
LEMON: Quickly, Rabbi. I'm up against...
BOTEACH: Really, with all due respect -- really with all due respect. OK.
LEMON: Go ahead.
JABREAL: Please.
BOTEACH: Rula, I was gonna -- I was gonna say -- with all due respect, Rula, you're excusing violence and that's very tragic. When you start bringing up that Israel's policy, it's terrible that Jews are being targeted, but Israel has to stop the segregation. Let's stop the nonsense. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. You are a Palestinian woman who has Israeli citizenship. You are allowed freedom of expression. No one tells you who to fall in love with. You don't get shot by your uncle or by your brother because you fall in love with someone your father doesn't approve of. You live a western life. You live with a kind of human rights that Israel protects. Israel has 1 1/2 million Muslim-Arab citizens, there is no segregation --
LEMON: We have -- we got to go, Rabbi.
BOTEACH: Complete equals. We all know that, so let's not...
JABREAL: That's not fair, Rabbi.
BOTEACH: Some of Israeli's policy.
JABREAL: Nobody...
LEMON: I want both of you -- I want both of you to come back, because I think we need to have a longer --
JABREAL: This is unfair, and I really feel that you need to reflect on this, especially based on what I've written and what's -- I've done. Thank you.
LEMON: It is a time issue. Thanks to both of you. We have both of you come back.
BOTEACH: I'll look forward --
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Investigators in the Java Sea have discovered a key piece of doomed AirAsia flight 8501, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: More Breaking News tonight, a big discovery in the investigation of AirAsia flight 8501. Searchers have found the cockpit voice recorder. That report is from Reuters.
And I'm joined by CNN David Molko who is in Jakarta, Indonesia and CNN Safety Analyst David Soucie, author of Malaysia Airlines flight 370. David, a big discovery in the investigation of this flight, they found the black boxes and now the reports that they have found the cockpit recorders. What do you know about it?
DAVID MOLKO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Don. The pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together. Out in the search zone, what we can tell you, conditions have been great since this morning. The underwater currents that were making it really hard for divers to get down there, they have eased up and divers have been in the water for about four and a half hours at this point. We know that they -- they have a read, 100 percent confirmed on that cockpit voice recorder, it's a matter of time before they get it. Entirely possible to Don, that they have recovered it. Communications a little bit difficult out there. Search officials saying they haven't gotten confirmation yet, but that could come at any moment. Don, one other thing, the other big priority out in the search zone right now, trying to locate the fuselage of flight 8501. It's believed that that's where the remainder of the passengers on board the flight, their bodies, more than a hundred are believed to be with that wreckage, Don.
LEMON: David, tell us where the boxes will be sent for analysis and how long is it expected to take before we learn information about what's on them?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, it's gonna be a matter now --
LEMON: David Molko. David Molko.
MOLKO: The flight data recorder is actually here in -- the flight data recorder is actually here in Jakarta, just to clarify. It came in late last night. We talked to one of the lead investigators with the NTSC, that's like the NTSB in the U.S. The guys who were gonna look through all of this and figure out what happened. And he said, the download should start -- actually this morning and maybe happening right now. Conditions on that black box, so good, no signs of fire damage, no cracks, meaning potentially no water leaking in. He said that download could take just about an hour. Of course piecing together the details will take quite a bit longer, Don.
LEMON: All right, I have two David's here and I should be more aware of that. So David Soucie now, these are the keys in solving the mystery of what happened to this flight?
SOUCIE: It's a major milestone, it always is. The important thing though is that we get both the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, because when you put those two things together, it really tells the entire story about not only the movements and the physical things that were going on, but the mental things and the communication. Remember, we have two pilots who spoke different languages. So, it's gonna be interesting as we go forward to try to find out if that played a part in what might have caused this accident.
LEMON: What can we tell already if anything from the condition of the plane sections that have been recovered, as well as what we're hearing about how the debris what -- has been spread about, David Soucie?
SOUCIE: Yeah. There's two things there, Don. One is the debris spread, which is a good point. It would indicate that, because we're talking only about a mile or so, that the aircraft probably didn't suffer an in-flight break-up of a significant amount. So, if they -- especially once they find the main body of the aircraft, if it's within that mile, then you could pretty much state that it did not come apart in the air. Remember flight MH17, it was seven or eight miles when it did come apart in the air, so it is much different that way. The other thing that we'll be able to tell from that wreckage, there's some speculation that it kind of had a rupture at the point at which it hit the water. I'm not convinced that's the case yet, because of the way that it was retrieved from the water...
LEMON: OK, David. SOUCIE: It's very possible that there was some damage.
LEMON: I have to run. Thanks to both David's. Appreciate it. We'll be right back.
SOUCIE: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A lot to cover tonight, a lot of Breaking News, along with the search for Asia Air -- AirAsia 8501, we'll continue the Breaking News on that, and I appreciate you watching.
I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here tomorrow night. "AC360" starts right now.
