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Don Lemon Tonight
Ohio Man Plots to Attack U.S. Capitol; Al Qaeda in Yemen Claims Responsibility in Paris; ISIS Exploits Children in Terror Campaign; Anwar al-Awlaki's Influence on Terrorism; French Report: Paris Attacker Filed for Bank Loan; Should Islamic World Do More to Denounce Extremism?; Admiration for French Police
Aired January 14, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.
Tonight, breaking news on the war on terror here at home and in the Paris terror attack.
A plot to attack the U.S. capitol. The FBI arrests a Ohio man who allegedly planned to bomb the building and shoot people as they fled the chaos. He claims to be aligned with ISIS.
I'm going to speak to his father very shortly here on CNN.
Al Qaeda's branch in Yemen releases a videotape claiming responsibility for the massacre at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. A fourth suspect is identified by investigators and the manhunt is on for him tonight.
A French newspaper reports a suspect as an accomplice of gunman Amedy Coulibaly. And may have driven Coulibaly to the attack on the kosher grocery.
And al Qaeda claims an American born extremist masterminded the attack before he was killed by U.S. drone strike three years ago.
Also tonight, ISIS gives new meaning to putting women and children first. The terrorist group releases a propaganda video that claims to show a boy shooting and killing two men accused of being Russian spies.
Is it real? We're going to get expert analysis.
We have got a lot to get to in this hour ahead, so let's begin with the alleged plot to attack the U.S. capitol. An Ohio man is in federal custody. He claims to be aligned with ISIS.
CNN's justice correspondent Pamela Brown is in Washington with the very latest.
What do you know, Pamela?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, the FBI says the 20-year-old Christopher Lee Cornell from Cincinnati, Ohio, is in the final stages of carrying out this alleged attack of detonating bombs at the U.S. Capitol Building and then opening fire on U.S. lawmakers as they ran out.
FBI officials are being -- keeping an eye on Cornell for several months after a confidential informant tipped them off about some alarming statements he allegedly posted on social media about wanting to launch violent jihad.
And one other point, according to this criminal complaint, he told the informant that he had been in contact with people overseas and wanted to murder U.S. government officials in honor of ISIS. He says in this criminal complaint, "I believe that we should meet up and make our own group in alliance with the Islamic State here and plan operations ourselves."
The FBI alleges that after these, you know, comments he made on social media that he actually concrete steps toward his goal, researching how to build pipe bombs, studying the buildings that he wanted to target in D.C. and then today, we learned, according to the FBI, that he tried to buy two semiautomatic rifles as a way to execute his plans. Shortly after that, the FBI arrested him and charged him with attempting to kill a U.S. government officer.
Important to note here, Don, that officials say that he did not pose a threat to the public during the course of the investigation, but of course this case highlights the concern among U.S. law enforcement officials, people who may be self-radicalized or influenced in some measure by ISIS.
LEMON: Pamela, thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
LEMON: On the phone with me now is John Cornell whose son Christopher Lee Cornell was arrested today for a terror plot.
What was your reaction? Because these are some very serious charges. I mean, he is charged with trying to bomb -- make pipes, set pipe bombs off in the U.S. Capitol and kill people.
What's your reaction to that?
JOHN CORNELL, FATHER OF CHRISTOPHER LEE CORNELL: I am devastated. I mean, I am devastated, and heartbroken at the same time. You know, I mean, I mean, it sounds so farfetched. You know what I mean. The kid is 20 years old, still lives at home. He had a seasonal job where he worked and made minimum wage. You know, he was saving up, he had a little bit of -- little savings. He had about $1200 saved up. The gun that he supposedly purchased today cost over $1700.
I want to know where that other $500 came from. Well, actually I believe I do know. I believe that money came from the FBI. He was turned in by an informant for some statements that he made on social network. Someone that was facing criminal charges made a deal with the FBI and turned Christopher over.
LEMON: Do you believe that he was involved with ISIS?
CORNELL: Heck no. There is no way. There's no way my son was involved with ISIS.
LEMON: But he did convert to Islam, did he not?
CORNELL: Yes, he did convert to Islam. Is that a crime? He belonged to Islam. And he -- and at first, I was concerned because of all the stuff that you see in the news and everything, and he explains a lot of stuff to me, that he never had anything against Christians or anyone, you know. I think he was really vulnerable, you know what I mean? But I think some of us it's just gotten so farfetched. I mean, how in the heck was he going to -- he didn't even drive. I mean, he didn't have a car. He didn't have that kind of money.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Why was he vulnerable?
CORNELL: Because when he got -- graduated high school, you know, he didn't have any real direction. You know what I mean? You know, when you're 18 years old, you're not sure what you want to do in life, and I just think that he was vulnerable.
LEMON: Did he ever talk to you about Islam, about ISIS? Had he ever even been to Washington, D.C.? Did he talk to you about that?
CORNELL: He has never -- Washington. He has only been out of the state of Ohio maybe two or three times and that was years ago. He hasn't left the house in three day -- maybe three times in the last month just to go to the grocery store and buy his groceries.
LEMON: But he never talked to you about ISIS, right? Did he?
CORNELL: No.
LEMON: No.
CORNELL: Never spoke anything about ISIS.
LEMON: So who was influencing him? Was he hanging out with any new friends?
CORNELL: Well, I don't know. It had to be someone that he met on social network, someone that he thought was his friend, right? An FBI informant and I think that this informant introduced him to an FBI agent, who befriended. And I think someone -- I mean, I'm not saying he was a saint, but I think a lot of it was coerced. I think he was -- a lot of it was a setup.
LEMON: Do you know where he is tonight, Mr. Cornell?
CORNELL: He's in -- no, actually I don't. He is in federal custody is all I know. Like I said, the FBI, they wouldn't even tell us where he is being held, what he was charged with. LEMON: What happens next? Do you know what you're going to do next?
And do you know what happens with him as far as with the Justice Department?
CORNELL: Well, we're going to support him 100 percent. I do know that he has public defenders, he goes to court on the 16th at 1:30 in the federal courthouse is all I know.
LEMON: 16th he goes to court. What would you want to tell him now?
CORNELL: What I would to tell Chris? Tell him I love him more than ever, and that I support him 100 percent. And his mother loves him, and we got his back. And we're going to be there every single court date. And we're all heartbroken. You know. We support him. I mean, we don't support terrorism. And if he did what they say he did, he's going to have to suffer the consequences.
I mean, he might be facing life in prison, and you know how heartbreaking that is? His mother is devastated and heartbroken.
LEMON: John Cornell, thank you so much.
CORNELL: Yes, OK, thank you.
LEMON: I want to bring in now Colonel James Reese, CNN military analyst and retired Delta Force commander and CEO of Tiger Swan. What do you think of this? Do you think he's part of ISIS?
LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, Don, I don't. He fits the profile. He's disenchanted. This is a way for ISIS and what they've been doing around the world, converting some of these young kids in, but I don't think he's part of ISIS.
LEMON: You don't think he's part of ISIS. His dad says he believes that he was coerced, set up by the FBI.
REESE: Well, you know, what people have got to understand, you get on the Internet today, tweet Internet, you put some of these things out. People are watching.
LEMON: Yes.
REESE: And those are red flags that come up, and law enforcement says it's no joke.
LEMON: Yes. The dad has said he was disenchanted. That really when he said that, he sounds like every person who we talk about with the experts like you who come on.
REESE: Right.
LEMON: That fit the profile.
REESE: Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
LEMON: Yes. But this is serious because he said he could face life because he is charged with trying to kill federal employees to attempting to kill officers and employees of the federal of the United States with possession of a firearm in furtherance of a crime of violence. That's very serious.
REESE: It is. And as a father, I couldn't even imagine my children even thinking about writing that on the Internet, so it's just -- it's insane.
LEMON: And the legal fees?
REESE: Off the charts.
LEMON: OK. All right. Lieutenant, stay with me. We'll get back to you in just a bit.
I want to turn now to Paris, to the terror attacks there, and the claim by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula that it is responsible for that attack.
CNN International correspondent Isa Soares is in Paris for us this evening.
So, Isa, the French TV channel TF1 is reporting that the brothers planned to use RPGs to take out a plane. What do you know about this alleged plan?
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Don. Yes, this report coming out on the last few hours from TF1 French TV station, and they are basically quoting sources close to the investigation, telling them that perhaps the Kouachi brothers may have had intention to blow up a plane.
What we do know, Don, is that they definitely had the arsenal on them because when they were taken down on that day by security forces, we got a sense of just the arsenal on them. The French prosecutor telling us that they had an M-82 rocket launcher as well that was armed with these arm grenades, so in terms of -- in terms of what they had in their possession, what they can do definitely that was there.
Another point that perhaps can shed some light on this, if you remember where they were in that print shop, that was very close towards the airport, that was very close to the main airport, so perhaps that could have been another -- that could be another sign. We just -- we just do not know.
LEMON: OK. All right.
SOARES: Also planes land very close to the -- to the motorway, that is another what many are saying that perhaps the intention was that it was pretty easy to do that.
LEMON: And Isa --
SOARES: One thing, Don, to point out to viewers is that, you know, if they did have the intention to take out a plane, you know, they had many instance where they could have killed so many people. If you remember they hijacked a car. They didn't kill anyone. The petrol station, they didn't kill anyone. And also there have been many instances where they could have killed many, were taken life in great numbers. But this looks much more targeted. Still, you know, you just do not know what these -- what's going through the minds of these men.
LEMON: All right, Isa Soares in Paris for us tonight. Thank you very much, Isa.
We've got a lot more to get to this evening. The radical cleric who speaks from the grave. A U.S. drone strike killed Anwar al-Awlaki more than three years ago. Yet his words still inspire terrorists such as the Paris attackers and the Boston bombers. We'll see why.
And ISIS releases a propaganda video showing a child executing two prisoners. Is it real? Expert analysis up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Is the terrorist group ISIS depraved enough to put a gun in the hands of a child and have that child execute prisoners?
ISIS has been known in the past to exploit children, to use them in its campaign of terror.
CNN's Michael Holmes reports now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A horrific new tactic from ISIS, raising a new generation of terrorists. A video released this week from the terror group purports to show a young boy executing two hostages accused of being Russian spies.
In the video a young boy about 10 years old with long hair dressed in a black sweater and military fatigues stands before the hostages, armed with a handgun. While a bearded ISIS fighter stands next to the boy reciting religious verses.
CNN cannot verify the authenticity of the video, but the boy pulls the trigger and appears to shoot both men once in the head then fires several more times as the hostages slumps to the ground.
Like previous ISIS execution videos showing the beheadings of Western hostages this one is carefully edited and choreographed with slick production, so it is unclear if the boy did in fact kill the hostages, but the message from ISIS is clear. They are turning children into killers.
DANIEL BYMAN, SECURITY STUDIES PROGRAM PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Unfortunately there is easy use of children for atrocities in many complex. We've seen in Africa and we've seen it before in Syria. The difference here is they're bragging about it. They are trying to exalt in this. And it's disturbing.
HOLMES: This video appears to be the first time ISIS has portrayed a child carrying out an execution. But the terror group has exploited children in previous videos by calling them the cubs of the caliphate. They're often shown training to fight, learning in ISIS-run schools, and training with automatic weapons.
This particular boy has appeared in earlier ISIS videos. He says his name is Abdullah, that he's from Kazakhstan and that he wants to grow up to kill infidels.
This isn't the first time ISIS has used shocking images of children online. A young Australian boy holds a severed head in a photo posted last August by the child's father, an extremist who took his children to Syria to join the fight with ISIS.
Another fanatical group is also using children to further their evil agenda. Nigeria's Boko Haram behind a deadly attack this week, strapping a bomb to a young girl and setting it off in a busy marketplace, killing at least 16 people, including of course the girl.
Just this week a Chicago teen pleaded not guilty to charges he planned to join ISIS fighters in Syria. His mother issuing an emotional plea to the terror group.
ZARINE KHAN, MOTHER OF TEEN IN ISLAMIC STATE: We have a message for ISIS, Mr. Baghdadi and his fellow social media recruiters, leave our children alone.
HOLMES: Children used as prawns in a propaganda war in the global jihad, exploited, their innocence lost. What happens to these children as they grow up? What kind of adults will these terrorists send into the world?
Michael Holmes, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Let's talk more about this now with Colonel James Reese, Paul Cruickshank, CNN terrorism analyst and co-author of "Agent Storm", and Zainab Salbi is the author of "Between Two Worlds: Escape from Tyranny and Growing Up in the Shadow of Saddam."
This is crazy.
REESE: It is crazy.
LEMON: It is crazy. Let's talk a look at some of the videos and then we're going to pull it apart and talk about the details. Let's put the first one up.
OK, so you see the boy there, preparing to shoot the prisoners. Looking young and innocent. It looks like a Hollywood movie, Zainab. Is this -- ISIS would stoop to these lows to carry out these murderous acts and use children?
ZAINAB SALBI, AUTHOR, "BETWEEN TWO WORLDS": Yes, I believe that. First, because the culture does have that. The culture does have children as part of the -- a boy is a man when he is 11 years old, so there is a cultural attitude. Second, ISIS is very savvy, has proven very savvy in producing media, a very cool media, put it if you may, that is a feeling.
And third, that is for me -- that's very scary. They are serious and in a way they are winning the propaganda war, I would say, in the Middle East right now in their recruitment.
LEMON: Do you thinks it's real?
SALBI: I think it's relevant if it's real or not real. The possibility of it being real is very true. It's truthful.
LEMON: Relevant if real or not real?
SALBI: Right, because the cultural idea of recruiting children, having children fight and kill, is acceptable in the culture.
LEMON: It does resonate, yes or no? Do you believe it's real?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: We don't know. I mean, I've looked at the video, it's not clear.
LEMON: You?
REESE: No. I saw the edited version, I didn't see the blood spatter unfortunately that you'd see.
LEMON: But as she says, it resonates.
REESE: It doesn't matter. Correct.
LEMON: So OK. So let's move on. Take a look at the clip of -- this is the -- these are kids in training. This is the second clip. Kids in training.
So, Colonel Reese, tell me about the training that these kids receive and what are they training them for?
REESE: Well, you've got some basic martial arts here, but you know, for young men, this is -- you know, this is men getting tough, young boys getting tough, whether they are playing football or soccer, martial arts. I mean, this is a way to show that they are trying to make their men -- their young boys into men at an early age and get them ready for the global fight in jihadi.
LEMON: You see them punching in the stomach there. They're teaching them defense moves. That shot in the first video, even as you see the boys. They -- obviously, these kids know how to use guns. Are they using the kids do you believe to carry out executions?
CRUICKSHANK: I don't think they're using the kids in a big way in the fighting in Syria and Iraq. I think this is more about propaganda. It's a message to ISIS' enemies there's a new generation coming, and they're going to kill you, too, and they're going to build up this caliphate, too. This is a multigenerational exercise we're involved with and there'll be more generations to come. LEMON: You're right. And perhaps the most disturbing part, here's
the rest of the video where you see the final shots of the execution. We don't show it, but let's put it up. So the boy holds up the gun and according to the people who are producing this propaganda, he shoots both people, and again, CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of this, but they say the boy actually killed the hostages. We can't verify that.
What do make of it?
SALBI: I mean, I've interviewed lots of child soldiers before in different parts of Africa, for example, where there is such a thing as child soldier. There is such a thing as -- they give guns to the children, and then the children shoot. Now the psychology of what's happening to the children is a very different reality. Often they close their eyes, they don't know what they are doing, they're afraid themselves, but that is -- has historical precedence of using children in wars, and that's what ISIS are doing.
I completely agree with you, they are preparing for -- this is -- this is the beginning of the caliphate for them. And they are giving very distinct roles for everyone, children, women, men.
LEMON: Yes.
SALBI: They're giving -- they're putting everyone in a very clear role.
LEMON: Go ahead.
CRUICKSHANK: And right in the end, you hear them ask the kid, you know, what do you want to be? What do you want to become? And he says I want to become a mujahid. I want to become a holy warrior. This is his goal as he's telling the people who ask him about it, perhaps his father, who's radicalized him in this ideology.
LEMON: Go ahead.
REESE: Keep this mind. These children grew up with this from the day they're born. They see this. They see war around them constantly. So these children grow up a lot faster than our children here in the U.S. or the U.K. because they are around us all the time.
LEMON: You mentioned, you said, there's a role for everyone. Women, children and men. And then this very highly slickly produced video, as I said, when I look at it, I said this is a video. It looks like it could be, you know, for a magazine of some sort.
SALBI: Yes. I mean, they are very, very savvy, and the part -- what worries me is that they have created a role, but the other side, the one that is trying to combat them, the Arab government or Muslim government or whatever, they are not providing that clarity of the roles.
LEMON: What do you mean?
SALBI: Actually in other words, we have -- Hayat, the woman who was escaping, the most wanted woman, everyone is talking about her.
LEMON: Boumeddiene.
SALBI: Right? The other women who are liberal -- fighting for women's rights and freedom of expressions, and all of it, are put in the prison by their government. You know, this Saudi blogger, for example, lashed -- 100 lashers because he talked about reform within Islam. So the other side is being punished while this side is having clarity of role and in there becoming heroes. You see what I mean?
LEMON: Yes.
SALBI: And so the way to address it is to address the alternative, also. We cannot only criticize it when we don't create an alternative.
LEMON: Yes. And it recruit more video for ISIS, you think?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, yes, I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm sorry. The video --
CRUICKSHANK: Yes. Their supporters are laughing this off as we've seen with the beheading issue is.
LEMON: So then if they're grooming children, you said children grow up much faster. So they're grooming them from a very young age. How then do you stop it? Is it -- how is it possible to stop it?
REESE: Well, where's the counter propaganda. Have we seen that? And then we see this video, we see this constantly. Where's the counter? Where are the other Arab nations that are countering this with this is what we do and this is what we're , you know, this what we're providing and the water and the food, and the jobs. Where is that? We're not seeing that counter propaganda.
LEMON: I have to go but when we were watching it, I asked, you have said, these ISIS and al Qaeda, these guys are watching. They're enjoying watching this, do you think?
SALBI: I would say that there are getting -- they're winning the propaganda war. This is for them a way to recruit more and make it more exciting. These are from a Middle Eastern perspective when the youth are confused and they're jobless and there's instability in the economy, and civility in politics is a clarity in here. So it's a very -- we are in a very dangerous historical moment at the moment.
LEMON: OK. I've got to go. But stand by, we'll be back with more.
Colonel Reese and Paul Cruickshank, I want you to stay with me.
Zainab Salbi, thank you very much for your expertise this evening. Please come back with us. And coming up next, one of the most influential radical Islamist is in
American born cleric. He's inspired a number of terrorists including the Paris attackers, but how is that so. He's been dead for more than three years. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The American-born Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki was killed by a U.S. drone strike back in 2011. But more than three years after his death, he remains an influential figure in the violent world of radical Islam.
Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. We always talk about Osama bin Laden's role in inspiring terrorists. But in terms of the attack on this French magazine, we now know that Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has claimed responsibility. And with that group, you always have to consider the influence of this man, Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric.
The speeches of al-Awlaki are believed to have inspired the Boston marathon bombings. Authorities believe the Tsarnaev brothers planted those bombs and listened closely to the preaching of this radical imam. The man who shot up the military recruiting center in Little Rock, Arkansas in 2009, killing one soldier, also have written material by Awlaki in his car. Nidal Hasan, the Army officer who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood a few months later, now convicted of murder, sentenced to death, he sent e-mail messages to al-Awlaki.
The man who hid explosives in his underwear and tried to blow up a commercial jet over Detroit, also a recruit of Awlaki. And on top of all that, Awlaki was at least loosely connected to some of the 9/11 attackers.
The most interesting part of all of this, al-Awlaki has been dead for more than three years killed by U.S. drone strike in Yemen. So how does he continue to have influence? Through his writings and the speeches which could be easily found on the internet, and many of the analysts have noted that those speeches have unique resonance with the disaffected young Muslim men. Not because he talks about the politics, although he does some, not because he talks about action about bombings or shootings, although he does some. But mainly, because he talks about what it means in his view to be a good Muslim, to be a person that matters. He talks about belief, even in death, that helps create believers and those radical beliefs create the bombs. Don?
LEMON: Tom Foreman, thank you very much. We have more Breaking News to tell you about the French newspaper reporting that one of the Paris attackers, Amedy Coulibaly applied for a $7,000 bank loan that was back in December. He also reportedly asks to be covered by life insurance policy type of loan, CNN has not independently confirmed this report but it is new information as it is. Paul Cruikshank and Colonel James Reese back with me again, this after the profile of -- of someone like, like this who applied for that and a life insurance policy.
REESE: Absolutely, either you know, he funding as a queue, he ask back of this attacks, you've got to have a funding.
CRUICKSHANK: And we've seen that in the past, In Al-Qaeda faults their back (ph) applying for bank loans, trying to get money in that way. We also know from Coulibaly's video that he was -- he gave money to the Kouachi brothers, for them to launch the attacks and maybe he was trying to get that money to give to them to launch that attacks against the Charlie Hebdo magazine. He said that he used to buy extra supplies at the end.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk about Anwar al-Awlaki. It is a great pull out on him in the Sunday Times. Let's talk about the influence that he still has years later, I think they called him the smooth talker, you know he could sell anything to anyone. Why is he still so influential after his death?
REESE: Well you know, one thing, you got to look at the methodology of terror cells. Terrorism cells whether it is Al-Qaeda, whatever it is Abu Nidal, whether it's black September. They work on the same aspect and it is intent based organization. Which means is, don't know why you kill these people. When you do it, and how you do it, I don't care. Just meet my intent. Whatever it takes a week or three years, that's how the systems work. And then, they tell another group to do it, so what happens is you get several balls up in the air at one time, when one falls and goes to the basket, you've scored.
LEMON: OK. So it's like a he is sermons, right? That he wins people over with. Paul, I want you to have you listen to one of these -- and some of them are still on the internet, they took them down, but you can still find them if you look for them. What he says to about to the American people, a message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANWAR AL-AWLAKI, U.S.-BORN CLERIC: To the American people I say, your security will continue to be threatened as long as your government continues with this aggression against the Muslim people. If your security is dear to you, then you should call for your government to pull out from Muslim lands. The Mujahideen have offered the west a truce but the west has refused it. We have chosen the path of war in order to defend ourselves from your oppression. God willing, we will continue with this war and you will find us persistent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What do you think of the message? And I ask as it goes. What do you think of that? People buy into that and believe it?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, they do buy into his that he is somebody who's charismatic, he was eloquent, he was seen by his followers as having this deep religious knowledge that he spoke English in a way that he resonated with the frustrated extremists.
LEMON: How -- CRUICKSHANK: In the west.
LEMON: How did he become so radicalized?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, he became radicalized for various sort of different reasons. He was pretty fervent before 9/11, but not like pro Al-Qaeda. But he came to the conclusion that the U.S was engaged in the war on Islam with those wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq. And he was also in prison for couple of years in Yemen. He blamed the Americans on that between 2006 and 2007. He also felt personally humiliated because the FBI put out allegations that he visited with prostitutes in Washington, D.C, another parts of the United States. They had a whole set of reasons really to hate the United States, and he became absolutely obsessed with the idea that Al-Qaeda should put all of its energy into hitting the U.S.
LEMON: I wanna play this sound bite for you. This is to the human based branch of Al-Qaeda officially claimed responsibility for the Paris attack last week. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN ARABIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Paul, Al-Qaeda clearly has some, you know, very sophisticated video production capability. What do you think of this message for declaiming a responsibility, what does it tell you?
CRUICKSHANK: Well, I think it's suddenly incredible given everything we found about the potential training that one of the brothers had in Yemen. But they not offering any absolute proof that they directed this. For example there's no martyrdom video we get with one of the brothers, appearing a lightly saw with underwear bomb with Abdulmutallab. But in Abdulmutallab case, that came out only four months of that attempted attacker in Detroit on Christmas day 2009. So may still see that, they may wanna offer proof here that they did this. But suddenly this is a credible claim, this guy here is one of the top military strategist that really getting the top leaders behind this message.
LEMON: Is this authentic in it so, what does this tell you?
REESE: Absolutely it's authentic.
LEMON: Yeah.
REESE: And I think what you are doing now is this, you know, AQAP is trying to show that they are the main influencer of the jihadist cells out there, and that's what they are trying to show.
LEMON: And did -- is this -- how do you, you know that the attacks that are happening now, you've been talking about the funding and the money, and we -- you know we're talking about the kid in Ohio. His dad said, he only had $1,200 and he got $500 more that was -- how -- how do they receive funding from around the world? Is it through messages like this? Where do they get the money?
REESE: That, that's exactly how they get it. So they'll -- you know, when they went to -- when Kouachi brothers went to Yemen, they got a blank of money, and then what happens in the cells, the cells have a financier, a logistician. Very much setup like a, like a military unit. And there was support people gather those tools for them, so the operational folks are not burning themselves for -- you know getting out there so police will find them.
LEMON: I have to go, but really quickly I wanna show if you can just get some of the videos of the stilts are up. He's with the stilts that were inside the kosher grocery store, some of the pictures of the -- you know you see the hostages, you see them taking trying to get the -- I guess Coulibaly is telling them to take the surveillance cameras down...
REESE: Right.
LEMON: You see bodies, all sorts of things. What is this? Does this help investigators?
REESE: Absolutely. I mean, it shows where he pushed the people, shows what he was wearing. I mean, what it shows me is he strong pointed, in that place. He was there to fight it out.
LEMON: Yeah.
REESE: I don't think he was there to a -- to die for Allah.
LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you very much. Appreciated, coming up. Does the mainstream Islamic world need to do more to battle radical Islam. Will get into that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have seen millions gathered on the streets of Paris to stand up against terrorism, Christians, Jews, Muslims, French citizens of just about every background. But can Islamic world do more to show it denounces the kind of extremist violence we have seen in so many places recently. So, joining me now to have the discussion is Ahmed Shihab-Eldin, an Emmy-nominated journalist and adjunct professor at Columbia University -- I got it right, right?
You got it right.
LEMON: OK. And then Rabbi Schmuley Boteach an American Orthodox Rabbi and author of Kosher Lust: Love Is Not the Answer. Welcome.
RABBI SCHMULEY BOTEACH, AMERICAN ORTHODOX RABBI: Thank you.
AHMED SHIHAB-ELDIN, EMMY-NOMINATED JOURNALIST: Thank you.
LEMON: What is -- rabbi, is New York observer today? So really you are observer, you said Islamic terrorism is one of the foremost cancers facing our world today, and you are calling for a million Muslims march. You said that on CNN the other day. Was it last night or the night before?
BOTEACH: Two nights ago.
LEMON: Two nights ago. You said, a day where Muslims can denounce violence being committed in the name of their religion.
BOTEACH: So, -- there were Muslims in that big march in Paris over the weekend.
LEMON: That's not -- that's not enough?
BOTEACH: They have to march in the name of Islam. Islam was one of the world's enlighten greatest religion, (inaudible) was the first introduced prisoners of war having rights. He chose the greatest rabbi of his age to be his personal possession. The Muslims took on the Jews when they were kicked out of Spain and Portugal, what a great faith. Do we see that today is the question? Now, if I'm a Muslim, I wanna say to the world, these animals who are killing in the name of Islam do not represent me. They do not represent my faith. They were in an abomination. They are disgrace in the name of Muhammad. What the footage that you showed of the Islamic child being shot to -- taught to shoot people in the head?
LEMON: So you think --
BOTEACH: We reached (ph) that.
LEMON: There are people who come -- who come on CNN and other, you know, other organizations. And you don't think that they are direct enough about denouncing --
BOTEACH: Whoa, it's very simple. I'm gonna use the opportunity tonight to say that Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Boko Haram, Iran and -- is about a nomination to Islamic --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: I --
LEMON: Go ahead, Ahmed.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: I appreciate you giving that an opportunity. But what I do want to say tonight is nothing can just fight the gruesome nature of the attacks. At the same time, I think it's deeply problematic. To put this burden on Muslims and to -- have you know a faith community group of 1 billion people -- you know, feel the need to apologize for the actions of a few individuals. I think it plays into the terrorist -- it aims on motivation, which is, to create as -- you know, can try construct of us versus them, which we seen since 9/11, perpetuate by extremists on all sides.
So, you know, we're seeing Muslim leaders condemn this, we're seeing Muslim moderate people to use the term that the media uses, condemn this. But I don't understand why when these attacks happen, there's always this interrogation, and in the western media in particular, kind of, of the nature of all Muslims. You know, there's a distortion, when we talk about, you know the media perception around terrorist attacks -- on when it comes to Islam in particular. For example in Europe, in the past five years less than two percent of terrorist attacks were motivated or conducted -- launched by religious groups. So, rabbi, this is -- this is my issue, I understand the motivation and the perception of wanting to condemn these, and I have condemned this. And I have shown solidarity as a Muslim, as an individual, as a human with Charlie Hebdo. Even if I don't condone -- you know the racists speech and the offenses speech.
BOTEACH: Yeah, I'm --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Why -- why must the Muslims do it in the name of Islam where --
BOTEACH: Eldin, I'm -- I'm astonished to hear this. When we had something as simple as Abu Ghraib, Americans were disgusted with what they did, because we're Americans and we stand for something better. And here you have, hands of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people murdering in the name of Islam around the world doing it and saying that's their religious obligation. And you're not concerned that people will misunderstand that -- just for one second please. This kippah that I wear is a symbol of something that I believe in and I know that my actions reflect on my faith. And I was told from the time I was a Jewish child, that when I walk in the street wearing this, what I say and what I do, will have people determine what my faith can shape moral character. So --
LEMON: So, Ahmed --
BOTEACH: I'm asking, don't you want Islam to shine as a great beacon of light to the world?
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course --
LEMON: Of course he does.
BOTEACH: OK.
LEMON: But here is the thing, I think -- Ahmed, here's the thing that people -- is the, yes. But, if someone says, you know, do you denounce it you that, and emphatic, this is absolutely wrong. And wherever we can stand up, we need to.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Don, I'm with you.
LEMON: OK.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Let me ask you a question.
BOTEACH: That's where -- that's where in Iraq? (ph)
SHIHAB-ELDIN: In Norway, when Anders Breivik killed 77 people, slaughtered them in the name of a pro Christian Europe, (ph) anti- immigration, anti-Islam -- one second, he killed 77 people. Did we have the same calls to have Christians around the world condemn it?
BOTEACH: Well, it's not being...
SHIHAB-ELDIN: One second. I'm not trying to explore there, rabbi.
(CROSSTALK)
SHIHAB-ELDIN: But with all due respect...
LEMON: But he makes a good point.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: With all due respect.
LEMON: But I think most Christians will say...
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Most said...
LEMON: I think will say -- that is absolutely wrong.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: When Christians, I agree. But when Christians go -- of course that said it most Muslims. I mean, it's a community of --
LEMON: Were people don't say, why don't Christian denounce that?
SHIHAB-ELDIN: And for example, in Myanmar and Burma, which sadly doesn't get enough media attention as it is. This is why the distortion in media exists, when radical Buddhist -- I mean imagine, radical Buddhists. You think of Buddhist and you think of sin. (ph) They are radical Buddhist. They kill Muslims in Myanmar and Burma. You don't see calls for -- you know, Buddhist around the world to stand up and condemn it. I am not saying that --
BOTEACH: You know what? Here -- but here's what I --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: They should not condemn it.
BOTEACH: But here's what I don't get.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: I am saying Muslims are condemning it.
BOTEACH: You know what does make sense to me, Muslims like yourself who are fortunate to live with the western values and were able to express themselves without the fear of the government, they're able to protest, they're able to read the truth in the newspapers, they're able to marry who they want.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Well, I want -- I think goes to what --
BOTEACH: They would want --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: To say that Muslims are --
BOTEACH: They would want the same -- they would want the same --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Are free to express themselves without the fear of the government.
BOTEACH: Oh, I think so. They -- and I -- they enjoy western values. Don't they want the same thing experience by a billion Muslims?
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course.
BOTEACH: Around the world.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of course.
BOTEACH: 400 million --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Don't they deserve the same rights.
(CORSSTALK)
BOTEACH: And you should call for that.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Rabbi.
BOTEACH: And not defending it.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Rabbi, no one is defending it.
BOTEACH: You are defending it.
(CROSSTALK)
BOTEACH: You are defending it.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: I am defending what?
BOTEACH: You are saying that --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: What am I defending at?
BOTEACH: You are saying that --
LEMON: You will get the last word.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: OK. The last --
LEMON: Ahmed. Ahmed or Ahmed, he said which either way. Go ahead.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Yeah. The last word should be this, that -- you know, at the end of the day, we have millions of people around the world who are condemning this, many of them Muslims. I don't understand and I read your article, why it needs to be Muslims, than need to around the world --
BOTEACH: Take back their religion? They should take that --
SHIHAB-ELDIN: That's not what I'm saying.
BOTEACH: Just a monster.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Just hear me out for a second.
LEMON: Let him finish.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: These extremists -- LEMON: Let him finish.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: These extremists want to play into the narrative that Islam is perpetually at a clash with western values, which is not the case. If you look at Ahmed Merabet -- my name is Ahmed, his name was Ahmed. He was a policeman, he was 42-years-old, he defended the right...
LEMON: Quickly.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Of Charlie Hebdo in order to basically, he died defending their right to offend his religion?
BOTEACH: Great man.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Right. And to --
BOTEACH: Great man.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: And so we should -- and he's a hero. We need to --
LEMON: OK. We have to go.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: We need to lionize him.
LEMON: We got to go. I will have you back, if you guys will come back.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: I would love to be back.
LEMON: Thank you, appreciated.
BOTEACH: Thank you.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: Thanks for having us.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Seven days ago a pair of gun wielding brothers stormed into the Charlie Hebdo offices and shot and killed 12 people in cold blood. My next guest is been covering this story ever since.
Joining me now from Paris is Thierry Arnaud, journalists from BFM TV. So Thierry, it has been one week since the attack, what is it like now in Paris?
THIERRY ARNAUD, BFM TV JOURNALIST: Well, it's -- it's very strange, Don. You know I -- it turns out, I used to be a New York correspondent back in September of 2001 and we had this very same strange and unique combination of sadness, sorrow and fear, knowledge that it's never, ever gonna be the same because, we know they are here, we know they can strike pretty much anywhere at any time. But there is also this sense of resilience, this sense of defiance that was of course, very well illustrated as by this incredible march on Sunday. LEMON: When you walk around, are people fearful? Are they rattled? Or
they're walking the streets sort of in defiance, you are not going -- you know, to make us afraid.
ARNAUD: So far, you know, the French people and the Parisians here around me, are going about their business pretty much as usual. And you could get a sense of that Sunday, because the demonstration was absolutely incredible, and I think, you know I've been in the business for about 25 years, and it is pretty much the most incredible event I have ever covered I think. The French can be somewhat unruly demonstrators when they take to the streets, they usually not very quiet, than usually not very discipline, and they usually tend to -- the pretty confrontational with the police. None of that was here on Sunday. Everybody was very quiet, they're very determined, and there was this incredible sense of unity -- you know, as the peoples standing as one.
LEMON: Obviously, it's awful that it happened, but the reaction, there must be a renewed sense of pride among the Parisians. But, I'm wondering how locals feel that this situation has been handled by the authorities.
ARNAUD: Well, you know, again, a combination of a sorrow and sadness, because obviously, other than the three terrorists, we have 17 people dead. But, as far as the French police is concerned and the way they handled the assaults, everybody is very proud of them, and there's a lot of admiration that certainly the French police is not used to.
LEMON: You know there's been some concern about retaliation against Muslims. Are most people there questioning mainstream Islam or do the majority can get this was -- it was terror caused by extremists?
ARNAUD: I haven't heard anybody of the past few days questioning the mainstream Islam, and the French politician on the -- you know, any part of the political spectrum have been very clear that those terrorists should not be confused with the mainstream French Muslim community. However, as you have pointed out, there have been some incidents between 50 and 60 of them since the attack took place. So, this is an issue, and that's the reason why in addition to strengthening considerably the protection of the Jewish sites and schools are here in all over France, additional forces -- police forces have been deployed also to -- protect mosques and other Muslim community places where protection was needed.
LEMON: Thierry Arnaud, thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The Breaking News tonight, an alleged plot to attack the U.S. capitol on Ohio man has in federal custody. The FBI is claiming that he is aligned with ISIS. We'll continue that follow that story, 20- year-old man Christopher Cornell from Ohio.
That's it for us tonight. I'm Don Lemon; thank you so much for watching us. See you back here tomorrow night. "AC360" starts right now.
