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Don Lemon Tonight

Six Dead in Metro North Crash; Jordan Vows Revenge Against ISIS; Reaction to ISIS Atrocity

Aired February 03, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.

Breaking tonight, a commuter train slams into two cars on the tracks in a New York suburb. At least six people killed in the fiery crash. We're going to have the very latest for you on that.

Plus, furious crowds on the streets of an Arab capital, demanding vengeance. But not against the West. Against ISIS terrorists who behead hostages, crucified captives and now burned a Jordanian pilot alive. The latest attack, a crime so unspeakable CNN is not showing you the video.

ISIS has proven that they will stop at nothing, but does their brutality make ISIS unstoppable or is it turning even their supporters against them? We'll discuss that.

Jordan's king meeting with President Barack Obama at the White House. And reports that Jordan may execute a female suicide bomber at any moment.

But what can America and its allies do? What will we do? Our terror and military expert will weigh in on that.

We've got a whole lot to get to tonight. But I want to begin with the breaking news here, right here in New York. A crowded commuter train slammed into two cars on the tracks of -- north of the train station in Valhalla, New York, tonight. The fiery crash killed at least six people, five train passengers and a woman believed to be the driver of one of the cars. At least dozen people are injured.

A spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority says the train pushed the car. About 10 train car links north of the crossing.

So let's talk about this with Justin Kaback, he is a passenger. He was on that train.

Justin, are you doing OK?

JUSTIN KABACK, PASSENGER: Yes, I'm doing OK.

LEMON: Yes. So please describe to us what you saw when this happened and what you experienced. KABACK: I mean, I was I think either the third or the second car from

the front where the -- I guess, the impact was with the vehicle. So when the train struck the car, I really didn't feel too much of an impact, it was not until the train came to a complete stop, and they shut down the engine, they cut the power, they cut the air, and there was just dead silence. And immediately, you know, maybe one or two minutes later, people saw, I guess, the first car.

The car in front of us opened up the door and they're like there's gas, they smelled gas up front. We got to move to the back of the train. So that's when I grabbed my bag above me and I was traveling by myself and I started, you know, walking up with these gentlemen, one, two car links where we eventually up a car or two links where eventually we came to a stop. And they came on the loud speaker to announce that the train struck a vehicle that was on the track.

That's all they said. After that, they didn't say if there was a fire or what we should do or stay seated or evacuate. So I think that a couple of minutes later is when I realized outside of the train there were I guess passengers, riders of the train walking in the snow heading towards the back of the train.

LEMON: And we're looking at some of your pictures now. The pictures that you took, Justin, and so when did you realize -- did you realize the train was on fire? Was it not until you got outside or did you realize it from inside when the passengers told you?

KABACK: See, I realized it inside because some of the people that were around me, we heard outside of the train, somebody yelled that the train is on fire. So that's when we knew it was -- you know, the train obviously was on fire and people were getting out for a reason.

I was right in the middle of the car. I had people, you know, we were crammed in, this is rush hour. I had people in front of me and behind me, and I was right smack in the middle.

So, you know, there was a lot of people in there. The air wasn't circulating and getting hot. I was getting kind of claustrophobic and that's when, you know, once I knew the train was kind of on fire and they weren't giving us any instructions, that's when I knew it was time to get off. And people that were by the doors, you know, they broke open the glass, opened up the emergency doors, where I eventually made my way out of the car which was also very difficult because I think there is, you know, maybe 12 inches of snow on the ground.

It's quite a -- quite a kind of a high length to get down from the snow. I was very concerned for, you know, people riding alone, the elderly passengers, women as well. Thankfully there was -- you know, everybody was very helpful and helping people get off, where to step.

LEMON: So there was no panicking? Would you say -- you're saying there's no panicking, correct?

KABACK: Where I was people really weren't panicking too much. We knew that people were saying the train was on fire, but I guess, you know, that everybody -- people remained in their seats. I know that I would be in one of the first 10, 15 people off the train that were in that particular car. So I was not in there when there was a panic. I could imagine people that were further back in the train that maybe didn't know what was going on until later.

LEMON: All right, Justin --

KABACK: How they were feeling.

LEMON: Justin Kaback, thank you very much. We're glad that you're OK.

Again, Justin Kaback, a passenger on the train, a Metro North train, that got into an accident in Valhalla, New York. That's north of New York City. Six people dead, five on board that train, one -- one of the passengers or one of the people dead is believed to be a driver of the car. The train struck a car.

Again, Valhalla, New York, this is just north of White Plains. We'll continue to stay on this story and bring you the very latest as we get it here on CNN.

Meantime, I want to turn to other breaking news tonight. Reporters -- reports, excuse me, that a female suicide bomber may be executed at any moment in Jordan as the country vows revenge for the pilot burned alive by ISIS.

Joining me now is CNN's national security correspondent, Mr. Jim Sciutto, with the very latest on this.

So, Jim, you know, CNN is not showing this horrific video, but you have seen it. Describe what you saw to our viewers.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: You know, Don, I watched it. I've seen a lot of these videos before, beheading videos, not out of interest certainly. But just from the job that we do here. But this is unlike one I've ever seen before. Just the level of brutality ISIS in effect topping itself, right, because there's no one else really competing in this space right now.

And with tremendous sophistication, shot like a movie with dissolves and focus changes, and effects and graphics, et cetera. This is a group that is sickly but also very skilled in maximizing its propaganda value and impact, and you see that in this video.

LEMON: You know, Jordan is promising, Jim, an earth-shattering response. What are you being told about what that might be?

SCIUTTO: I am told to expect a broad-based response from Jordan, and that that a lot of options are on the table. One is certainly military. You saw that in their statement today following this by military spokesmen where they showed video of their many military assets, F-16 warplanes and missiles, et cetera. We should expect that kind of response. And remember, Jordan already participating in this coalition. So it would be, you know, perhaps further steps in the direction that

they've already taken, but there are also, as you mentioned, Don, these reports tonight from multiple agencies quoting Jordanian security officials that at dawn which is only a couple of hours away Jordan time that this failed female suicide bomber al-Rishawi will be executed.

Now keep in mind, she was already sentenced to death in 2006. This is the woman whose suicide vest didn't go off during that horrific bombing in 2005 in hotels in Jordan. She was already sentenced to death, but Jordan had a moratorium on the death penalty which they lifted last month with the number of hangings. So you can hear Jordanian officials saying well, she was already on death row, and we just carried out that sentence today.

LEMON: Yes.

SCIUTTO: But clearly if you do see that happen, it would be very much in response to the horrific death of this pilot.

LEMON: All right. Jim Sciutto, chief national correspondent.

Jim, stand by. Appreciate that.

I want to go to CNN's Jomana Karadsheh, she is live now for us in Amman, Jordan, where it is a little before sunrise now.

So, Jomana, we saw Jordanians taking to the streets calling for revenge. Describe the mood there right now.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a very somber mood right now. Over the last few hours, Don, we've seen people taking to the streets in Amman, and also in southern Jordan in the town of Karak, that is the hometown of the pilot Moath al-Kasasbeh.

There was just so much anger and so much disgust with what Jordanians saw tonight. And as you mentioned, there have been calls for revenge, saying that the blood of the pilot Moath al-Kasasbeh should not be shed in waste. They want to see their government take action and respond. And we have heard the Jordanian government and the Jordanian military say that they are going to retaliate, and saying that their revenge is going to be equal to the tragedy of Jordanian.

This is a nation mourning, Don. This is a man that they considered to be a national hero and so many were holding on to the hope that he might come back home.

LEMON: OK. We're looking at our pictures here, Jomana, but what can you tell us about what we're seeing on Jordanian television? We've seen the tanks, we've seen the fighter jets. Is this a preview of what's to come?

KARADSHEH: Well, Don, they have been running in the last several hours since the announcements were made. These are nationalistic songs, this is in solidarity with the Jordanian Armed Forces, with the Jordanian military. This country is taking it personally, the loss of one of its soldiers is really felt by almost every household in this country, and there is this feeling that this country is at war.

As you know, Jordan is a key part of the U.S.-led coalition in the fight against ISIS, and there's this feeling that this war is going to take a whole new dimension now, that Jordan might step up its -- fight against extremist groups in the region -- Don.

LEMON: OK. All right. Thank you, Jomana Karadsheh, joining us from Amman, Jordan.

So what is the reaction around the world to this ISIS atrocity? Joining me now is Fareed Zakaria, the host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

I'm glad to have you here. Can we listen to the president and what the president said today? And then I'll ask you about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What does this mean for the president's strategy going forward against ISIS?

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: I think, you know, strange sense, it's a positive by which I mean the president has been trying to convince countries like Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, to take a more active role. I think with the Jordanians, he was not having any difficulty convincing the government, but the government was a little weary because the people of Jordan were not as engaged in this fight frankly.

This was something where they told, well, these are, you know, fellow Sunnis, they are battling a regime in Baghdad which they regarded as a Shiite, pro-Iranian regime in Damascus, that they're regarded as sort of pro-Iranian, so they didn't see why we engage in this. Now the Jordanian people are much more likely to be engaged.

So I think in general the brutality, the barbarity of ISIS in a very strange way undermines their own success, because it will mean while it'll scare people, it will scare people to take arms against them.

LEMON: That's what I wanted to ask you because the pilot is from a very prominent family in Jordan. A murder like this is so vicious, it may cause -- it's causing really a global reaction here. You think it's going to end up galvanizing more people against ISIS. Is that what you're saying?

ZAKARIA: I think, you know, as you say, he comes from an important Bedouin tribe in Jordan, the Jordanian people are going to view this as a kind of an attack on them. But also I think Arabs around the country, around the Arab world will recognize, look, ISIS is not really about Islam or religion, this is a very -- this is a barbaric thing to do and a violation of any kind of humanity, which also very un-Islamic.

It doesn't follow any precepts of Islam, and so they claim to be Islamic, no, they are a band of thugs. And the more that message gets out, and I hope moderate Arab leaders will get that message out, the easier it is to take them on because they can then be exposed for what they are which is a band of criminals and thugs rather than some kind of spokesmen for a new Islamic caliphate.

LEMON: All right. I'm going to talk more about that, but I want us to listen to a Jordanian military spokesman earlier today and then we'll discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MAMDOUH AL-AMERI, JORDANIAN MILITARY SPOKESMAN (Through Translator): His blood will not be wasted and the punishment of the tyrants of this earth who assassinated this martyr, Moath, and those who are supporting him, there will be a punishment at the same level of that entire Jordanian family have been suffering, and they will be punished eventually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is the Jordanian military now promising revenge here?

ZAKARIA: Yes, remember, Arab rhetoric tend to be very highfaluting and very -- they're overblown, and so I'm not quite sure if, you know, if you were to listen to a German saying that I think it would mean one thing. This is -- they're just saying, look, we are very -- this is engaged us fully. The Jordanians are in this fight. They would, you know, as I said, this mostly gives the king the popular support he needs.

Apparently they are going to do some of these executions. I honestly wish they wouldn't because it gives the appearance of an emotional, you know, vengeance whereas, you know they will say that many of these people had already been sentenced and such, but it would -- you know, in a way you'd want to demonstrate -- this is one of the things President Obama said in his interview with me last week.

He said you want to approach this surgically and in a precise way and a rational way because you don't want to give them the satisfaction of jumping, and over reacting because after all that's what they're after. What have they done? Let's be clear. They've killed one person, they've been killing lots of people, but they know that if they do it in a particularly barbaric, brutal way, it gets the world's attention. It gets us to have --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But does it give them momentum or does it do just the opposite, you think, for -- it maybe gives them momentum when it -- certainly when it comes to other, you know, jihadists, right, other extremists, but for the rest of the world, it does not.

ZAKARIA: It probably gives them a temporary, kind of intimidation factor. It reminds you of what their appeal is.

LEMON: Right.

ZAKARIA: Their appeal isn't that they are, you know, wise or just or true, it's that they scarce people.

LEMON: Yes.

ZAKARIA: Now some young men look at that and they marvel at the -- at the, you know, bravado, but most people, as you say, get turned off, and that's been the story of al Qaeda, that was the story of al Qaeda in Iraq, and it will be the story of ISIS.

LEMON: We're not showing the video, right? And let's talk about that. It's 22 minutes. It shows the pilot trapped in a cage. He's getting burned. Do you think that this helps or hurts the cause of ISIS? Because many believe that they will use it as a recruiting tool and if we show it or not, it's not really for the consumption of the public. It's really for people who they are targeting, correct?

ZAKARIA: Yes. I think -- I think it's the right decision. I think it's almost pornographic, and they play into that, you know, to just play into their hands. As to whether it will help them, as I say, you know, there are going to be some sick young men who are in search of adventure and action who find this kind of -- you know, this barbarism glorious, but I do think that for the most part, it reminds you that this group is really about fear and intimidation.

Remember, the part of what is going on here, very important part, is the kind of battle of the hearts and minds. Are these -- are these people the future? Are these the people you want to bank on? Who is going to look at this? And think of these people as the future?

LEMON: It does seem desperate obviously, right?

ZAKARIA: And you wonder, you know, because they are not doing particularly well in Iraq, they are doing OK in Syria, and this is a search for attention. It's also a plan that went awry.

Let's remember how it began, Don. They took two Japanese hostages. They wanted $200 million. The Japanese said no. So then they say, OK, we're going to execute one hostage. It made no difference. The Japanese didn't budge. So then they say, OK, we want this other hostage released, this female suicide bomber, failed suicide bomber, this was from nowhere. This was a woman who was in a plot nine years earlier when ISIS didn't even exists.

LEMON: Right.

ZAKARIA: People had forgotten about her. It has a little bit of a feeling of a plan B and a plan C, and then yes, they can -- they can do incredibly barbaric executions, they can slickly produce videos, but it doesn't seem like a particularly strategic plot. It feels like something that went seriously awry.

LEMON: Fareed Zakaria, much appreciated as always. Thank you. We've got much more to come on Jordan vowing revenge for the pilot

burned alive by ISIS. Will the terrorist strategy cause other countries to join the fight against them? And what can America and our allies do to stop ISIS? What should we do? Our military experts weigh in just a moment.

Plus, news nobody expected in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. Why a woman was kicked off the jury.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: With the murder of the Jordanian pilot a turning point in the battle against ISIS, what do the terrorists gain by putting such barbarity on public display?

Jordanian took to the streets today calling for revenge, chanting that they'll sacrifice themselves for the young pilot.

Want to talk now to Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst who's a former CIA operative and CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruikshank, he is the co-author of "Agent Storm."

Hello, gentlemen. Let's discuss this now.

Bob, the act itself. Burning a person alive in a cage, so horrifying. Really almost unimaginable. What is ISIS trying to achieve here?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Don, I think they are just purely psychotic by anybody's definition, whether you're a Muslim or Christian or whatever, the West or the East. And I think -- I've been in touch with the Jordanian tribes up until today and they've been on the fence about this war on Syria and Iraq. They said it's not our war. These people, yes, they're overreacting, killing these Western hostages, but they're under threat from a Shia government in Baghdad.

And you know the argument, Don. But now that has changed with the publication of this tape. I think we're going to see full tribal support for the king. He has a carte blanche to go after these people. And I think it's going to be telling, and also in the rest of the Gulf Arabs, the conservative ones who've supported indirectly the Islamic State feeling it was a bastion of Sunni Islam, but more than that, I hope it changes Turkey which has to shut that border, and the Islamic State needs to be strangled from today on.

LEMON: And Paul, I asked Fareed Zakaria a similar question. Does it show desperation on the part of ISIS or does it show confidence?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Don, I think it shows a certain amount of anger. I mean, the brutality of this -- of this murder shows a certain amount of anger about these airstrikes which have begun to take a toll. But I don't think we should read too much into that because after all last summer when they were at the height of their strength, they're also putting out these sort of brutal beheading video. And I think from ISIS' point of view, this is a way to sort of weaken

the Jordanians in times of their willingness to try and take the fight to ISIS, but as Bob has been saying, it's likely to have the opposite effect. Some of these videos that they were putting out last year in Iraq did terrify Iraqi soldiers and contributed to them turning and running in Mosul rather than fighting ISIS, but I think it's likely to have the opposite effect this time to bolster King Abdullah of Jordan in the fight against ISIS.

LEMON: Bob, the Jordanian pilot was a Muslim. There have already been demonstrations in Amman. Do you expect this to cause more reaction in the Middle East?

BAER: I think absolutely. I mean, these people cannot define who is a Muslim and who's not. It's unacceptable within the tenets of Islam. If you can say to Shahada, you are a Muslim, and these people are defining it so narrowly they are alienating Muslims all around the world. And these groups, frankly, have appeared in history. The Quraysh were the first ones after the death of the prophet.

And you see the Muslim communities, when the barbarity becomes apparent, they turn on and this is what I'm counting on happening is the Iraqis and the Syrians will turn on them and destroy them without our intervention.

LEMON: This video really is just beyond gruesome, and CNN is not showing it. But it's also well planned out. It's well produced. Who is making the call on this kind of killing? And who is instructing that it'd be made into a propaganda movie, Paul?

CRUICKSHANK: I think the sign-off came right from the top. That this would have been Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the head of ISIS, who would have authorized this. We're told that it might have happened about a month ago. And Baghdadi is widely known as the most brutal leader that ISIS have ever had. And that includes quite a lot of very brutal leaders like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

So I think very lightly this came from the top as a way to weaken the resolve of Jordan and other regional powers. I think it's a big miscalculation from ISIS and it's going to strengthen the resolve of Jordan and these other powers.

LEMON: Do you -- do you agree with that, Bob? Because Jordan is -- was already a strong ally.

BAER: I totally agree. I think, as I said, Jordanians will even consider using ground troops at this point, at least commandos. And they're going to put more air support and this has been a huge boost for the king in our alliance because we were right about this group just being beyond the pale, and Paul has hit the nail on the head.

LEMON: All right. Bob Baer, Paul Cruickshank, thank you very much.

Up next, Jordan vows to strike back at ISIS. It has strong intelligence in the region. So we'll examine the military options when we come right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking News just into CNN now. Jordan state TV reporting that a female suicide bomber has been executed along with another prisoner. Both of them have been executed again, that is just in to CNN. I want to bring in now to Jomana Karadsheh, she is joining us from Amman, Jordan. Jomana, we're just getting the news in, what do you know about this?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, the Jordanian government is now announcing that both Sajida al-Rishawi that from that -- would be suicide bomber that was convicted and sentenced to death in Jordan back in 2006, for her role in the suicide bombings that struck three Jordanian hotels in 2005, what is referred to as the 9/11 of Jordan along with another member of what used to be known as al-Qaeda in Iraq, that is the parent organization of ISIS. A man called Ziad Karbouli who used to be a close and top aide to the founder and leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, Jordanian born terrorist of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who was killed in U.S. air track in 2006. According to the Jordanian government both these prisoners have been executed, they have been hanged to death in Jordan this morning.

LEMON: OK. Jomana, stand by. Because I want to bring in -- and don't go away, because we need you, I want to bring in now Lt. Co. James Reese, retired Delta Force commander, CNN military analyst and also Lt. Col. Rick Francona, a former U.S. military attache in Syria who's also a CNN military analyst, and also again, Jomana Karadsheh, joins us from the (inaudible) she's in Amman, Jordan. This is a Breaking News, as just soon as the CNN Jordanian government spokesman is confirming to CNN that prisoners Sajida al-Rishawi and Zaid Karbouli had been executed. They've both have been executed and as Jomana is reporting, they both have been hanged, again, that's according to the government. The government is announcing that their -- Lt. Col. Rick Francona, your reaction to this news coming in now.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA: FORMER MILITARY ATTACHE IN SYRIA: I think it's been expected to Jordanian said that they were going to do this. They've carried through in that promise. I think what we saw the murder of this Jordanian pilot over the last 24 hours in the announcement of it has galvanized the Jordanian public, it is given the king a mandate, demand from his people that he do something, and he do it fairly quickly.

LEMON: Colonel Reese?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN MILITARTY ANALYST: Yeah, I believe -- same with Rick. It's -- we knew it was going to happened would come, this is nothing something surprising. And we just have to sit back and watch now, look at what Jordanians do, but they feel they have to do.

LEMON: Jomana, if you're still there, you have been monitoring the Jordanian television. Is this news coming from sources within the government or they're announcing this on Jordanian television?

KARADSHEH: There is an urgent banner running on state TV right now, that is announcing that this Jordanian, it is 5:30 a.m. in Amman right now, and people will be waking up to this news. This is something that there has been speculation for some time, they have been calls and demands on the street. We have heard this over the past week, since ISIS threatened to execute the Jordanian pilot Muath al-Kaseasbeh that there have been calls here in Jordan for retaliation saying that prisoners associated with ISIS in this case, members of al-Qaeda in Iraq, and APY (ph) to be executed in retaliation. We also heard renewed calls for this today, and it seems this is what is happening, but it's important to point out Don, that these two had been on death row. Jordan sentenced them to death in 2006, but the country had a de facto moratorium on the death penalty and halted the executions for about eight years, and only resumed the executions in December.

KEMON: And Lieutenant Colonel Reese, one may wonder the execution of a failed suicide bomber. What significance if any, is that -- will this mean that she -- somehow carried out her mission because she was a suicide bomber in the first place?

REESE: Well, no, I don't think so, Don. I mean, her husband was the one that -- you know, they attacked the Radisson hotel in Jordan and killed all of the folks during the wedding party. So, this is -- you know, the chip, that did not go off, this is justification for the Jordanians, and again, like I said a moment ago, we've got to just sit back and let the Jordanians do what they feel they need to do and allow King Abdullah to lead his people on this next generation of the aspects against ISIS.

LEMON: This is comes really on the same day, not of the execution but of the video coming out from the Jordanian pilot. Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, it's -- the significance of that, this happening in succession?

FRANCONA: Well, I think if this is a reaction, the king had to do something. This was -- and they had threatened to do this, they carried out that threat. Now, we have to see what's going to happen next. The king now -- I believe has a mandate, the tribes are now on his side, there was some talking in Jordan, there were demonstrations about is this really our battle. I think that, that is passed. The king, and he was on solid ground and he is going to start taking increased military action. I think we're going to see increased Jordanian participation in the coalition, what we don't want to see is independent. Jordanian operations, we want them to do this in conjunction with the coalition, so that it can be done forcefully and effectively, and we cannot have the desired impact on ISIS. But, I think everybody welcomes increase Jordanian cooperation, possibly even Jordanians special operations, who by the way our excellent military force?

LEMON: And it should not be given a short riffed that they also executed a top aide to Zarqawi. What you say Col. Reese?

REESE: Yeah, that's correct. I mean members Zarqawi, if you run this line yard (ph) it's all away back, Zarqawi is really the founding member -- founding father of what ISIS is. You know, Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS right now is -- was one of Zarqawi's top men lieutenants that we captured back in 04, we put him in prison and it was set out on a prisoner swap and exchange by the Iraqis. But Don, here's one of the other big things, we really have to watch here. This is an opportunity for the Arab nations to really pull this Arab aspect together, because the other thing we're not talking about here is just, what is the policy about Syria? What are we going to do about Syria? Because the senior leadership of ISIS, and where these executions are taking place are happening in Syria, and we just continue to float out there in a Ethernet about what we're going to do about Syria, nothing -- nothing hard is being discussed.

LEMON: Can we talk about the timing of all of these? What about the timing of - you know, Jordan believes that murder happened a month ago on January 3rd, ISIS revealed the news during King Abdullah's visit here to D.C. on February 3rd, is that deliberate, Colonel Reese?

REESE: Well, you know, in Islam numerology is very important in Islam. And if you look at, you know -- right now, if you look at the 3rd of January, by the way it looks -- that we understand it, that's 10 days after his shoot down and capture. And so if you look at what numerology does, and there's a lot of folks who study the numerology of Islam what 9/11 was based off of the number 3, what that's based off of, -- there are a lots of things that and throughout history, and since this 9/11 aspect for us, and the numerology of where -- of how Islam, and-- you know, how the extremist piece of this attacks, and how they do these things has based off on the numerology which is something that if you look, we look at from the research aspect is very interesting to watch.

LEMON: Alright. Jomana Karadsheh isn't sure, but I want to go now to Jim Sciutto. Jim Sciutto joins us with the very latest team. What are you hearing from your sources?

JIM SCIUTTO, CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is a part of the very broad based and tough response that Jordan promised, once this video came through that the executions are part of it. But it's also expected that there is a military response, and it's very quick. Jordan will say that these, both of these, Rishawi the failed (ph) female suicide bomber but also this former lieutenant Abu Musab al- Zarqawi who is the founder of al-Qaeda and Iraq which is predecessor to ISIS. Both of them had been sentenced to death before death penalties had been commuted. Commuted in Jordan, there had been a moratorium on executions, which was lifted just last month, so they will say that they were convicted already and they carrying out the sentences that were handed down a number of years ago in the case of al-Rishawi, the failed (ph) female suicide bomber in 2006. So, that is part of their strong message in response here. The other part Don, is the message that was conveyed to the president today as towards King Abdullah and that was him, and that is the (inaudible) do the opposite of cowering Jordan, if that was the intention of this execution, that they will -- the White House impression from those meaningful (ph) as if they will are only spill their efforts, only double down on their commitment to fight...

LEMON: And Jim...

SCIUTTO: Against ISIS.

LEMON: Jim, did -- did anyone expect a reaction so soon from the Jordanian government?

SCIUTTO: I think there's a bit of a surprise, and I think that U.S. officials had quietly been urging, perhaps -- a more if not muted response just to take time here, and not to react too quickly. I mean you can make the argument that you are playing into the ISIS hands. I suppose by -- you know, getting into the game of the eye for the eye and that said, you have strong demands, and there have been for some time from the Jordanian public, for a strong response, and particularly from the tribe of this pilot which is very powerful in Jordan. They were demanding a response, and you will see that Jordan responded.

LEMON: What more should we expect from Jordan, Jim?

SCIUTTO: The military reaction. You know, further -- certainly further participation in the coalition, no backing off, but military strikes. That -- can't necessarily happen right away, because you have to draw up for its targets, you have to get intelligence, to guide the places that are not just going to be knee-jerk reactions in the military sense, but to targets that are going to -- you know, you hope take toll on ISIS. But I think that something to look forward to the next, and the coming days.

LEMOM: Alright Jim, stand by. Jomana Karadsheh joins us from Amman, Jordan. How might this be received Jomana by Jordanians as they wake up?

KARADSHEH: Don, this is something that many Jordanians have been calling for, they were. This evening, we heard that it's in Amman, a few hours ago, and people took to the street, there has been this call for revenge. And then we heard the government and the military saying that there is going to be retaliation, so that the government here, the king, they are under pressure to deliver this response fast. People want to see a reaction straight-away and fast. (ph) Jim was mentioning, this of course, includes the tribe of Jordan, the tribe of Muath al-Kaseasbeh, the tribe in this country are very important, they are the backbone of the port of the Jordanian monarchy, they make up the large part of the Jordanian security, which is in the intelligence service. So, keeping them happy, keeping them as satisfied with the responses is something that the Jordanian government and the king have to do right now. The anger we have seen, Don, has been directed at ISIS. This anger on the streets this evening, and the Jordanian government needs to capitalize on that because, otherwise, you will start seeing what we have heard in the past week, from Jordanians blaming the government for this situation, saying that Jordan should not be taking part in this coalition and fighting ISIS. So, we would expect that many people are going to be waking up to this news, and they're actually going to be happy to hear this.

LEMON: OK. I want you to stand by Jomana, I have lots more questions for you and for CNN's Jim Sciutto, as well as Colonel Reese and Francona. I want to tell our viewers now we have some Breaking News here on CNN. Jordan is executed two prisoners. One of them a female suicide bomber, that is in response to ISIS burning the Jordanian pilot alive. We going to have much more on this Breaking News, right after a very quick break, don't go anywhere. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back to Breaking News on CNN. Just in -- just a few minutes ago, Jordan has executed two terrorist prisoners. One is a female suicide bomber. The execution is in response to the burning death of Jordanian pilot by ISIS. So back with me now, is Lt. Co. James Reese is with me and also Lt. Col. Rick Francona. And I -- I want to go to -- and also Jim Sciutto was with the -- he is our chief national security correspondent. Jomana Karadsheh joins us on the phone, she is in Jordan. Jomana, I want to ask you about the reaction from Jordanians when they wake up in the morning if they likely to support more military action by the Jordanian military, do you think?

KARADSHEH: Don, there has been real mixed feelings about Jordan participation in the coalition and the fight against ISIS. This is something that this is a debate that has been going on since Jordan's participation late last year. Something that we are seeing as a debate and has been reignited this hostage crisis. Some Jordanians believe that is not this country's war, that Jordan should not be taking part in air strikes on fellow Muslims. But, at the same time, we are hearing the other Jordanians who are saying that Jordan needs to strike these terrorist organizations, that they needs to be going after ISIS, before ISIS comes after Jordan.

LEMON: And at least you say the other person executed was top aide to al-Zarqawi. And so Lt. Co. Rick Francona, in that vein, I'm wondering at these changes anything I terms of military action when it comes to Jordan, when it comes to Middle East and policy.

FRANCONA: Well, I think of us were surprised when Jordan joins us a full member of the coalition and agreed to strike targets in Syria earlier on...

KARADSHEH: OK. Great...

FRANCONA: That's it. We've seen strong Jordanian support in the military for what's going on. Jomana brings up some excellent points about this debate that has been going on since the initial air strikes, whether Jordan should be involve, was it their war. But if you talk to the people involved in the intelligence and security apparatus in Jordan, they all agree that there is a threat to the king. And if you look at the way ISIS came out of Syria, down Euphrates valley, and they made a turn towards Jordanian border. They came over and seized that area that defines where the Syrian, Jordanian and Iraqi borders meet, presenting a real threat, and there have been borders pernicious with Jordanian units. So the Jordanian military certainly views ISIS as a threat. I think that you're going to see probably them win the argument in the coming weeks, now will that last? I don't know. I think we will see Jordan willing to provide more support to the coalition air operations. I think Jim made an excellent point, it's going to take time for them to do this, and we can't have the Jordanians running off and doing this independently. This is an air campaign, they need to be a part of the overall planning, they need to be -- like we use a coalition refueling, air support -- intelligence so, everybody welcomes the increased Jordanian support, but it has to be done in coalition -- in conjunction with the coalition.

LEMON: And before the executions, obviously, a pentagon spokesperson talked about the hostage killings by ISIS. How they would not alter the U.S. militaries course of actions against ISIS. Take a listen and we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We haven't made it a -- I can only speak for the United States Military. We haven't made it a point to respond directly to -- these killings, even when these were, when American citizens were killed. At least from the American military perspective, I wouldn't look that is a -- it is not a tit- for-tat. We are at war with the ISIL at the same way that we are at war with al-Qaeda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It is not tit-for-tat as he is saying for the United States government. Jomana Karadsheh is back, there you see her there in Amman, Jordan. But it certainly has more meaning and it is closer to -- especially, in light of what happened today, what we saw today in the video for Jordan. Jordan is vowing revenge, Jomana?

KARADSHEH: It is indeed. And there are a number of options here that the Jordanian government, that the Jordanian King can take either stepping up the military campaign that Jordan is already involved in. And Don, also this is the country where there are some ISIS supporters here, jihadist from Jordan. And there is the possibility also where you would see the government and the security forces also cracking down on them. And of course, there was talk of seeing these executions take place, and we did see this happen this morning with Jordan announcing the execution of these two top members of al-Qaeda in Iraq, Sajida al-Rishawi, for many Jordanians of reminder of an attack that really shocked this nation, what is described as the 9/11 of Jordan. And she took part in these bombings, really, they are still fresh in the minds of so many Jordanians, and reminding them of the threat that these, these organizations, these extremist organizations in the region pose to Jordan like ISIS that they see this country as a great enemy, because of its alliance with the United States and the west, in the fight against the extremism. And we had heard this evening from the Jordanian government, from the military saying, that they are going to have a harsh response, and it is going to be a revenge that equals the tragedy of Jordanians as they described it, Don.

LEMON: Do we -- do we still have Jim Sciutto with us?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Jim, listen. I want to ask you this early, I think I didn't have the chance to ask you, but I did ask Fareed Zakaria about it. Here's what the president said earlier today, he said, "I think that we redouble the vigilance and the determination on the part of the global coalition to make sure they are degraded and ultimately defeated." The president has not responded to the -- this latest action by the Jordanian government, but we are likely to hear from the White House soon, if not tonight, very early in the morning. What will you expect the reaction to be?

SCIUTTO: Well, let me tell you. I've already reached out to the White House, and for now, they are referring us the Jordanian government. I will tell you, we did -- we did hear earlier today that the White House was officials were encouraging the Jordanian counterparts to deliver a measured response. I think behind that you had something of a subtle message perhaps not to overreact, you know, hard to define what overreaction is, but to -- but to take their time to push-back at the ideology. To use it as an opportunity to portray ISIS as not Muslim, as anti-Muslim, to help push-back support for ISIS of which there is some frankly inside of Jordan, among other Sunnis in the region to use it as an opportunity rather than getting into the tit- for-tat. Now, you know, it is up as the White House officials will say, it is up to Jordan to decide how they will respond to this, and Jordan has made the decision to respond very quickly, and -- in a -- you know, in a certainly very powerful way.

LEMON: Yeah. Colonel Reese, tell us about the king. We saw video, the president there, tell us about this king?

REESE: So King Abdullah, I'm a big fan. He is a former special operation commander in Jordan for the Jordan Armed Forces. He is very well trained, I was fortunate to train with him in the mid-80s, when we jumped in there, he is a warrior king. But at the same time, I've always been impressed with the way he is able to lead in that tribal area of Jordan and his ability to bring calm to his people. And I've just always been impressed with him, and like I said, he is a warrior king. And I think we'll see him start rising to the top, and literally could become a major player in this coalition, because of his prowess and leadership and what he can bring to the table.

LEMON: What do you mean by warrior king when you say that?

REESE: Well, you know, you look around that the other senior leaders of these countries involved. He actually as former military officer, he commanded the Special Forces in Jordan, he is a 71st -- you know, their delta tier one equivalent operator. So he's been there, he's the guy who has been on the ground, he's -- he knows the soldiers, he knows all the people in this armed forces. He has a great, you know, relationship with the armed forces. So now, you take that and you bring that to the leadership side and the political and the diplomatic side, and so he really understands both sides, and has a different view than most of the senior leaders in this coalition have.

LEMON: Colonel Francona, as I understand you have worked with -- Jordanian military as an adviser. How similar is this military -- is their military to ours?

FRANCONA: You'd be surprised on how similar the ethics are, the training standards, we use very much the same weaponry, they go to all of our schools as Jim has said, and Jim has trained with them out in the field, we do everything together. We've been exercising with the Jordanians for decades. They pretty much mirror our capabilities in miniature. They don't have all of the equipment they need to conduct this independent operations, and I think they would like to, but we're going to be there with them, and as long as they do, this is part of the coalition. I think they bring a welcomed capability, and right now, I think they bring a welcomed commitment to be part of this coalition, I think that's very important.

LEMON: OK. I want to update our viewers on the Breaking News, since in case you're just joining us here on CNN. This was seen 20 minutes ago, Jordan executed two terrorist prisoners. We have people live. Our correspondent live in the region, there are also our experts on the air. One of them is a female suicide bomber the other one is Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the execution in response to be burning death of the Jordanian pilot by ISIS. The video of that we saw earlier today is believed that the -- and the pilot was killed really set on fire and killed back on January 3rd, we're not getting the video until February 3rd. And again I'm joined by Lt. Col. James Reese and still Lt. Col. Rick Francona, CNN's Jim Sciutto, and also Jomana Karadsheh, joins us from the region. I want to ask you Lt. Francona, will the U.S. per troops (ph) on the ground? Do you think you help the Jordanians?

FRANCONA: I don't see that happening Don, many of us believes that if ISIS poses such a threat at some point in time in the future, that maybe necessary that time isn't right now. We of course would welcome the presence of Jordanian forces, but I -- Jim made a really good point earlier that Colonel Reese did. That -- you know, were -- we actually have a plan on the ground force in Iraq and that seems to be progressing sort of according to the plan. I think when you cross the border into Syria -- this is a whole different situation, there are too many groups on the ground fighting each other, you've got ISIS, you got the tribes, you got the moderates, you got (inaudible) army, and you have the Syrian army. What we are seeing up in eastern Syria now was many of the tribes breaking away from ISIS, pushing back against ISIS and allying with the Syrian army. So, there is a lot of things going on in the ground, and I don't think we have a really good understanding there. Inserting U.S. troops into this mess is not a good idea.

LEMON: Jomana has gone away from inches getting some information for us. But Jim Sciutto, I want to ask you, what should we expect today in Amman, from Amman, Jordan?

SCIUTTO: Sorry, Don...

LEMON: Yes, Jim Sciutto?

SCIUTTO: Well, you mean, you shouldn't looking at the public response before the executions when people were calling for blood. I mean, and that was -- in those words, they were calling for blood. I think you even expect at least in the first public response of the executions welcoming the steps, that they wanted the step. Looking forward as the government takes military steps in response, and that's very much expected as they pick the target et cetera, double-down on this -- joining the coalitions, I think you didn't expect public support as well. The trouble is how long does this last if the cost continues to rise for Jordan. I made this comparison earlier tonight, I think it hold, I remember when the four U.S. contractors were brutally killed many in Fallujah in Iraq in 2004 they were hung from the bridge. We all remember those images and help sparked further U.S. military reaction there. But over time, the cost of the military action weighed down on the American public support for the war. So, this is a war that by all accounts, the officials, and the administration officials, it is got to be -- it's going to take years. So, when you look at the country like Jordan, as those costs are played out over years. There's the public support remain it could open for question.

LEMON: Col. Reese in a short time we have left, one wonders if -- you know, because of how just barbaric this video that we saw today was, one wonders if ISIS really has gone too far, and how much support? Everyone is saying that the Jordanian people are really supporting their government, there's a big rally expected for the king, king's return today. Did they go too far this time, Colonel Reese?

REESE: Well, you know Don, the thing that really surprised me, I know a lot of people may have not seen the whole thing, the whole film, but was the desecration of the body afterwards when they dropped the concrete dirt from the front loader, and dragged the frontload across. It's just --

LEMON: Disgrace to the Muslims.

REESE: Absolutely. Absolutely, and so I'm shock I've seen a lot of bad things in my life, but -- yeah, they've gone too far in this one and I truly think that they need to pay for it.

LEMON: Colonel Francona, I just have a few seconds left here, your final thought?

FRANCONA: I understand the White House wants the Jordanians to have a measured response, I would -- I would wonder what our response to be if it had been an American pilot.

LEMON: Alright. Thanks to all of you. Again, there's been an execution in Jordan. Right now we're getting new information coming in. Also we have correspondents throughout the region there who are following the story for us. I want to thank all of my guests tonight. CNN's live coverage of the Breaking News in Jordan continues right now with John Vause. John, joining us from the CNN center in Atlanta.