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Don Lemon Tonight

Train Crash Survivor's Story; NTSB Investigating Train Crash; Former Marine Charged In Chris Kyle's Murder; How The President Handles Crisis; Reggie Love On America In Black And White

Aired February 04, 2015 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is 11:00 p.m. on the east coast where an NTSB Go Team is trying to solve a mystery of why did an SUV stopped on the tracks last night triggering a fiery commuter train crash in a New York City suburb that killed six people. I will talk to a man who jumped from the burning train.

Meanwhile in Taiwan, time is running out to rescue anymore victims from this shocking plane crash that killed at least 31 people. And our aviation experts are here to explain to us what might have gone wrong.

Plus the real life "American Sniper," I'm going to talk to the former Navy SEAL, who trained Chris Kyle.

And also the president's body man speaks out, his life as President Obama's chief of stuff.

And when Morgan Spurlock stops by, things always get interesting and tonight is no exception. He's brought out a few of his friends with us and our green room may never be the same. They're going to join us here on set.

We've got a lot to get to tonight, but I want to begin with the dramatic survival story, the commuter who barely escaped with his life when he jumped from a burning train last night.

Jamie Wallace was a passenger on the Metro North trail that collided with an SUV on the tracks. He joins us now via Skype from his home. How are you doing?

JAMIE WALLACE, PASSENGER IN METRO NORTH CRASH: Well, I feel very blessed today, Don, and I'm glad to be here.

LEMON: Yes. We are glad that you are here, and sorry that you had to witness this, and obviously, that people died on the train and the car driver as well. You had been commuting by train for almost 15 years, and last night you were a passenger on that train. I want you to take us through what happened.

WALLACE: Well, I was seated in the second car back. I felt what I thought that was the train jamming on the brakes all of the sudden. We were traveling very fast. It is an express train up to a certain point, and it felt that we jammed on the brake, and slammed hard.

There was quite a lot of rumbling, and a lot of scraping feeling underneath the wheels. So I felt that we had perhaps gotten off of the track, and maybe one of the wheels on the train had gone off of the track, and bumping along on the railroad ties.

The train then came to a complete stop, and a number of us tried to assess whether we were still on the track or not.

LEMON: Were you thrown? Were people -- how was the impact, how far were people thrown or were they thrown at all?

WALLACE: Well, you know, I didn't see anyone thrown. I happened to be seated, and my back was to the direction of the force, so I didn't, you know, experience many any of that. I didn't see anybody else thrown either.

LEMON: So the conductor gets on the loud speaker, and says we just hit a car, standby. Was there any other instruction after that?

WALLACE: No. We actually didn't receive any other further instruction. I don't know if the loud speaker went out as part of the explosion in the front car or not, but many of us were, you know, just sort of making it up as we went. We had to.

LEMON: Yes. So how quickly did you get off of the train? Did you try to help other people before getting off of the train?

WALLACE: Yes, I was somehow able to remain calm, and I tried to help others to remain calm. There was the beginning of the some people running, and almost barreling into the stampede when flames in the front car started to appear.

I was able to get the attention of one of the people in lead, and remind them to stay calm, and that is the only way that we would be all right. I was able to make eye contact, and emotional contact, and letting them know that if we stayed calm we'd be all right.

LEMON: Were you worried about yourself, your life or mostly concerned about the people in that first car?

WALLACE: You know, I have to say that I really was not concerned for myself. We did not seem to be any immediate danger in the second car, and there was some of us looking for the fire extinguisher, which we now know wouldn't have done a lot of good, but we found it, and tried to pass it forward.

We tried to get into the first car and saw shapes of people moving around in the smoke, and we knew it had to be absolutely hell in there, and we were worrying about the people expiring because of the smoke inhalation.

So we tried desperately to get the door open and it was locked. There was a man ahead of me. He tried to kick the glass to no avail. It's a pretty thick glass between the cars. We were going to try to use the fire extinguisher that was in our hands to break it, but none of that unfortunately would have worked.

LEMON: Are you going to commute on the Metro North?

WALLACE: Yes, I actually took the train from a different line this morning and got right back on the horse. The train is no more dangerous today than it was two days ago. It just happened to be a terrible tragedy yesterday.

LEMON: Jamie Wallace, thank you.

WALLACE: Thank you.

LEMON: Six people killed when that Metro North train crashed into an SUV on those tracks and at least 31 people died in the stunning crash of that Taiwan plane, look at that.

Joining me now to talk about it, about both crashes, is Mary Schiavo, a former inspector general of the Department of Transportation.

She is now an aviation -- she is now an attorney for victims of transportation accidents, and also David Soucie, CNN's safety analyst and author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370."

So Mary, we talked a little bit about this last hour. We just heard from that horrible story. You said many of those who perished died from smoke inhalation, why a train is so difficult to escape from in an emergency?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, because they haven't had the same evolution that aircrafts had. I mean, there are so much emphasis and there has been so many change and the aircraft fleets change much more quickly that the train cars do.

Many of the train cars in which we travel are not years old, but decades' old, and we just haven't had the same emphasis on the rolling stock as we have on aviation for scape, you know, for updating and upgrading and for a crash survivability.

That's been a big push in the aviation world and not so much in the rail world, and that is why the NTSB made rail safety and passenger survivability one of the ten things on this ten most wanted list.

LEMON: I have a couple of things in front of me and I remember during the old, and we did the survival stories, and they said to carry this thing that's sort of looks like a bb in the wallet or in your car so that you can break the window, right?

So you heard the passenger, Jamie Wallace, that this fire extinguisher. One would think if you had this fire extinguisher, and you were beating it against the glass. You were throwing it that it would shutter the glass.

Can any of this, I don't know maybe something metal like anything that a commuter would have, like a coffee mug or an umbrella, would any of those help in escaping, breaking a glass or trying to open up the door of some sort, Mary?

SCHIAVO: Most likely not, because not only thick is it very thick and tempered, but it is also reinforced and those things that you talk about, I actually have them in all of my cars and vehicles. It is like a little ball peen hammer, probably not, because the train glass is so very thick plus reinforced.

LEMON: And should it be that way, though, for impact? Does it have to be that way?

SCHIAVO: Well, it does for safety reasons, but what they should have are more windows that can be taken out and more breakaway windows, and more windows that have emergency escape mechanisms on them.

And also one of the things that the NTSB has recommended from the prior crashes is that you are be able to open those escape windows from outside and not just from inside.

That there'll be two ways to get the people both in and out and that was one of the recommendations that the NTSB has made before.

LEMON: David, I see the people all of the time, if the air conditioner goes out or the heater goes out or what have you, I see people on trains even on the subway trying to figure out how to open the windows. They don't know how to do it.

On planes, you get a mandatory. You get mandatory safety instructions about seatbelts, about escape procedure, about floatation devices, all kinds of emergency procedures. Why don't you get this on trains, David?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, as Mary said that's kind of part of the ten most wanted list of the NTSB, and that not only do they have to have more access, but they also have to provide training and the ability to know when something is happening on the train.

And in addition to that, when something is on the track in front of the train ahead of it so that there is a greater warning for what might be on the track, neither of those things were in place yet, but there are things that the NTSB has recommended, but it is up to the railways to actually enact those things.

LEMON: But what about seatbelts because we have heard about so much about seatbelts on buses especially school buses. Mary, go ahead.

SCHIAVO: Yes, absolutely. Seatbelts are something that has actually evolved. On the aircraft, they are inventing new kinds of seatbelts that provide more support. And it's very interesting for the gentleman, who was just on was seated with his back to the front of the train.

And both in air crashes and plane crashes I have worked both where the person seated with their backs to the point of impact have survived, and that does make a difference, but people don't like to ride backwards, but it actually increases the survivability. LEMON: So what is safer? I will ask David first, what is safer do you think considering that you get safety instructions on planes, what is it? Is it a plane or a train?

SOUCIE: Well, I'll tell you, you know, Don, with statistics, you can do just about whatever you want to. If you asked the rail companies are going to tell you that they are safer. The airlines are going to tell you they are safer.

But it's a matter of how you measure. If you measure it strictly by fatalities the trains are probably safer at this point in time just because of the rash of accidents we've had recently.

But if you ask the airlines again, they can to that. It is a matter of how you measure it, and it's not just about fatalities. It's about the potential for fatalities and that is where we really dial in safety.

LEMON: Yes, and we just saw -- I mean, we have video of the plane crash yesterday and the aftermath of the train incident in New York yesterday. Mary, what do you think is safer, planes or trains?

SCHIAVO: Well, if you just slump them all together, trains are safer, but if you take commercial scheduled major carriers, then they, of course, rival the safety of the trains.

If you take out general aviation, and motorcycles, and those all in there in the same group together, much less safe than trains and major scheduled carriers.

LEMON: We have talked about this so much with the airplane stories that we have discussed, Mary, do you think that trains need to be modernized now?

SCHIAVO: Absolutely. It is going to take some doing because the Federal Rail Administration, the Mass Transit Administrations, they can ask and try to improve, but we don't buy the rolling stock in the country is not replenished very often. And there are about 750 rail roads. People don't realize that, so there are a lot of constituents to deal with.

And so, thank you, Mary and David.

When we come back, the death of a real American sniper, and the death of Chris Kyle, and the man who killed him, and the trial of the man that killed him.

Plus, the man who knows President Obama better than most, his body man, Reggie Love on life in the White House behind closed doors and on the basketball court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Jury selection is set to begin tomorrow in the trial of the former Marine accused of murdering Chris Kyle, who is life story is told in the blockbuster movie "American Sniper." There are questions about whether Eddie Ray Ralph can get a fair trial. CNN's Ryan Young has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT ((voice-over): It is an intense movie that fills the screen with powerful, emotional, and the unforgiving unforgettable horrors of war. "American Sniper" is a film centered around America's most lethal sharp shooter, Chris Kyle, a man, many are calling a hero, a big hit at movie houses across the country.

"American Sniper" is now the highest grossing war film ever earning more than $240 million so far. It has also been nominated for six Academy awards including best picture and best actor.

BRADLEY COOPER, PORTRAYS CHRIS KYLE: Hopefully, this movie can educate those of us, who are not familiar with the plight of the soldier, and the soldier's family.

YOUNG: But Chris Kyle's life didn't have a Hollywood ending. In 2013, the Navy SEAL was shot and killed at a Texas gun range. A former Marine who Kyle was trying to help cope with PTSD is charged with murder.

TAYA KYLE, CHRIS KYLE'S WIDOW: I stand before you, a broken woman, but I am now and always will be the wife of a man who was a warrior both on and off of the battlefield.

YOUNG: Jury selection begins Thursday for the trial of the man accused of killing Kyle. But with Kyle's popularity growing of late, the attorney for the man accused of shooting him has said he thinks the trial should be moved out of the small Texas County where Kyle was killed. But some experts say the recent publicity generate by the movie, and of itself may not be enough to jeopardize the case.

THERESA ZAGNOLI, TRIAL CONSULTANT: Those called for jury duty this week, they already had their opinions. They have been living with this for two years.

YOUNG: Chris Kyle's life and the movie are not without controversy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a propaganda film that it's all (inaudible) as "Dirty Harry."

YOUNG: One of the loudest detractors of Kyle's like and the film is former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura. He has slammed Kyle and his story including winning a lawsuit against Kyle's estate over a passage in the book, "American Sniper" where Kyle claimed to have punched Ventura in a bar in 2006.

JESSE VENTURA, FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR (via telephone): A hero should have honor and a hero is not how many people you have killed. You know, he was obviously, a great sniper, and he is obviously a great shot. He obviously did his job correctly, and let me fire this one at you. Do you think that the Nazis had heroes?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: And for a SEAL that has a sure shot on the battlefield, Chris Kyle is now the target of not only glory but controversy -- Don.

LEMON: Thank you very much, Ryan Young. Joining me now is Brandon Webb, a former Navy SEAL, who trained Chris Kyle. He is the author of "The Red Circle. And Jim DeFelice is the co-author of "American Sniper."

Jury selection starts tomorrow, Jim, in the trial of the man accused of gunning him down, this movie -- gunning him down, Chris Kyle, at a shooting range.

The movie has grossed $250 million and nominated for six Oscars. His autobiography "Say It Ain't So" sold millions of copies. Do you think they are going to be able to find a jury that's truly impartial?

JIM DEFELICE, CO-AUTHOR, "AMERICAN SNIPER": You know, I have a lot of confidence in the people of Texas, and I think that they are going to -- they are going to see justice done there. I don't think it is an easy job. I don't think that she have an easy job whenever there is a trial.

But I think that they are going to be able to separate the publicity and a lot of the -- you know, the fanfare around the case and finally come to a just decision.

LEMON: Two days ago, Texas, they declared Chris Kyle Day in Texas. I mean, that is going to be tough though.

DEFELICE: I think that when you are -- I have been on the jury, and when you walk into the courtroom, and when you go into the jury room, you kind of put everything out of your head, and you try to come to the just and fair decision. I would not want to be a juror in the case, but I think that the people in Texas will do a good job.

LEMON: Brandon, he made it his mission really to help the veterans suffering with PTSD, and then ironically he was gunned down by or shot to death by a veteran named Eddie Ray Routh that he was trying to help. One factor that will undoubtedly come up in this is the 911 phone call that Chris Routh's sister, I believe called in. Let's take a listen and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPERATOR: 911, What's your emergency?

LAURA BLEVINS: Listen, my brother just came by here -- he's now left and he told me that he's committed a murder.

OPERATOR: OK, hold on.

BLEVINS: And I am afraid for my life. He said that he'd killed two guys they went out to a shooting range like he's all crazy. My husband is going to talk to you because I am so nervous.

GAINES BLEVINS: He was recently diagnosed with the PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

OPERATOR: OK. OK.

GAINES BLEVINS: And he's been acting real weird.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the attorneys will say that he has suffered with mental issues, don't you think -- and will plead insanity, do you think that PTSD should be taken into consideration in this trial?

BRANDON WEBB, FORMER NAVY SEAL WHO TRAINED CHRIS KYLE: From everything that I know, he was hospitalized in a mental institution, prescribed drugs for a mental condition, and from what I know as well this is a guy that didn't actually serve in combat.

So I don't see the PTSD diagnosis. I honestly believe this is person that had a serious mental condition, and it was tragic had Chris known the true nature of his mental health that Jim and I were talking earlier. I don't think Chris would have ever entertained taking this guy to a shooting range.

LEMON: So he did not know, because if you ask most people, they'll say, you know, if some who is suffering from PTSD, the last thing I would want to take them to is a gun range or anywhere to be near a weapon.

DEFELICE: There is a lot of misconceptions about what PTSD does, and you know, I think that there are a lot of veterans who have been in combat and unfortunately, they have come home, you know, with the trauma, whether it is diagnosed or not, and they are not running around shooting people.

WEBB: And the shooting range is a very common ground for veterans and especially the combat veterans so I think Chris Kyle thought he was sold a story that he believed in, and he went to the range, and he said, look, this is a common place.

And he said, look, this is common place. We are going to go to the range and have a few beers afterwards, and talk about things, and I think Chris, people need to remember that Chris is a hero.

I mean, this is a guy who had made millions of dollars selling the life rights to this movie. He could have bought a ranch in Texas and sailed off into the sunset, and he'd still chose to help fellow veterans.

LEMON: What do you think should happen with Eddie Ray Routh? They are asking for life in prison without parole, do you think -- that's fair? Do you think it's should be the death penalty?

WEBB: You know what? I honestly think that, you know, the people of Texas will make the right decision. Again, I do truly believe that the guy was mentally disturbed.

LEMON: What do you think?

WEBB: I would say the death penalty, but it is not my decision to make.

LEMON: So we saw -- I asked you, I said what is going on with former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura? What is his beef with Chris Kyle and you say?

WEBB: I say that, you know, Governor Ventura had some sort of disagreement with Chris, and you know, took it to court, and the bigger part of the claim was that people only bought the book because of a bar fight in California.

LEMON: Here is what he said on Allen Comb's show yesterday. He said, OK, we can listen to it. Go ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VENTURA: A hero should have honor. A hero is not how many people you have killed. You know, he was obviously a great sniper. He is obviously a great shot. He obviously did his job correctly. Allan, let me fire this one at you, do you think that the Nazis have heroes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So he --

WEBB: That is so absurd. That is just -- give me a break.

LEMON: Was that a low blow?

DEFELICE: I will tell you one thing about Chris. Whenever people will come up to him, after the case had been started and stuff, and they would start trash talking Jesse Ventura's military record, Chris would stop them right in their tracks, and say, you know what, don't question whether the guy was a SEAL and did his job, he gave the country a blank check when he signed up to --

WEBB: And four combat tours, two silver stars and four bronze stars, if that is not a hero, I don't know what a hero is.

DEFELICE: Absolutely. He rescued, you know, a number of people -- read the book, and you know, he really downplayed a lot of that.

LEMON: You said that is so absurd. What were you going to say?

DEFELICE: Just the accusations -- any of the accusations that Chris, you know, that Chris put the bar fight into sell books is just that is silly.

LEMON: Last word?

WEBB: You know, I think Jesse Ventura has made a career out of, you know, turning his life into to a circus, and just to see him discredit the honor of Chris Kyle and the SEAL community is just very disappointing as a member of that brotherhood.

LEMON: Yes, thank you, Jim. Thank you very much for your service. From American sniper to the American president, the man who knows President Obama better than just about anybody, his body man, Reggie Love, joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Take a look at this, there it is, the White House where tonight the president is dealing with one crisis after another all over the world.

Joining me now is a man who knows President Obama better than most, Reggie Love, is a former body man to the president and the author of "Power Forward, My Presidential Education." I like the picture and the book. It is very good.

Let's talk about the president. There are some harrowing moments, very important moments, and you were there for a lot of them. When the presidency is focused on what is happening now, and when it comes to ISIS, what is it like, what happens as far as the president goes?

REGGIE LOVE, FORMER PERSONAL AIDE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know, I think his decision-making process is pretty unique. I think you've seen --

LEMON: Do you feel those moments in the White House?

LOVE: Yes, I do. I think that when you are there, you know, one, you are representing your country, and you are representing that administration, and there is a lot of pressure to want to get it right.

LEMON: You know when it is serious, and you can feel it?

LOVE: You can feel it.

LEMON: You were there when -- for the killing of Osama Bin Laden, what was that like?

LOVE: You know, that was a powerful day. When 2001 and when the towers fell, I had never been to New York as like an adult. And so, when I remember when I walked outside of the White House that day, and there were people lined up, there must have been 10,000 people walking and standing in front of the White House that night.

And it was almost, Sunday night almost 12:30 or 12:45 that morning and people were crying, and you really could see that you were making a difference, and there was an impact being had right then right there, just like that.

LEMON: You are his body man and you have been called -- reporters have called you his chief of stuff. What does a body man do? What is the chief of stuff do?

LOVE: Well, it is a good question. I think every -- for every principled body person, it is probably a little bit different, but when I took the job early on in 2007, no real job description, and a lot of it is you are figuring it out.

And you're problem solving, and you're trying to anticipate anything that may be happening to him or during the day and trying to make sure that he is as comfortable, and prepared as he can to go out to campaign and work and --

LEMON: So you carry the stuff, and music, right?

LOVE: IPods and hand sanitizer and Nicorette and power bars, and you name it.

LEMON: You have to anticipate what he wants or what he might need.

LOVE: What he might need.

LEMON: And that would be a really great job. You said 2007, you took the job before he even ended up in the White House. Did you think that you and him would end up in the White House?

LOVE: Man, I mean, if you told me when I moved to D.C. in 2006 that a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama would be president in 2008, I don't know if I could say with a straight face that I thought that would be a very high probability outcome.

LEMON: And a black guy named Reggie Love would have been the right- hand man.

LOVE: Right. But I will tell you know, for me, like, the idea of being involved and being engage and working for the guy like then Senator Obama was such a powerful thing that even if he had not won, I would have felt like I was winning by having been a part and working for a guy like that.

LEMON: Let's go through some of the things in the book. You write about learning that he was going to win the Democratic election over Hillary Clinton. Share that moment.

That was a powerful day. You know, one of those, you know, historical moments.

Where were you and what happened?

LOVE: We were at DCA at the Signature Aviation, and you know, there aren't a lot of planes there because you have to have air marshals so the president, then the senator is pulling up to the plane, and Senator Clinton and her team are sitting on in their plane and getting ready to take off --

LEMON: You are all right there?

LOVE: And not only right there, we are the only people there, and I get a call from the Huma Abedeen, who is a dear friend of mine now, and she says that Senator Clinton wants to speak with Senator Obama. And Senator Obama pulls up, and I say, Senator Clinton wants to talk to you. They kind of meet halfway in the middle between planes and they have a very animated exchange over what -- at the time were some pretty tough comments about the president had about the senator then that had been made. And I think that someone from her team had, you know, accused him of being a drug dealer.

LEMON: And they talked about that. They were animated out there on the tarmac? Wow.

LOVE: And you know, I think -- you know, he was very, I think he was very composed about it, and I think she had a -- and she had a stronger reaction than he did, and it was surprising to me, right.

And he, you know, he kept his cool. I was surprised how cool he was able to be, because I mean, I would have been pissed off, like drug dealer.

LEMON: So the outcome, though, that he had actually found out that he would be the nominee.

LOVE: That is the day that I think we had an inclination that he had the composure and the ability to compete with her.

LEMON: Do you think she should be the nominee in 2016?

LOVE: I think she is very, very capable person, and I think that she would be very formidable Democratic candidate for president, and if she decides to run, I think, you know, you couldn't -- I don't think that you could go wrong with her.

LEMON: All right, so when we come back, we are going to talk more about your book, and also some very personal things about the president.

LOVE: OK.

LEMON: The commander-in-chief on the basketball court. I just adlib that, but maybe we will.

LOVE: All right, we will see how it goes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We are back now with Reggie Love, the author of "Power Forward, My Presidential Education." The president's body man and your name is the only name that I have ever been jealous of. Don Lemon, Reggie love is a lot cooler than Don Lemon.

LOVE: Do you think so?

LEMON: Yes, I like that because people think they already know you. Does that happen to you because of your name?

LOVE: It sometimes has that effect with people, but then when they get to know me they are like, you know, for a guy named Love, you could be more loving. LEMON: You could be a lot nicer. You called your book "Power Forward." You are a power forward in 2001, right, in the national championship of the Duke University Blue Devils basketball team. What did you learn from the president anything on the court?

LOVE: I mean, I think people always ask about what the president's game is like, and I think the people are saying, can he really play, and he is a great player in the sense that he is not a guy that is going out and be your leading scorer. He is not going to fill up the stat columns. He is guy that -- when you play with him, he is going to make everybody on his team better.

LEMON: I am terrible at basketball. I played in junior high school. I don't remember if I even scored a point, I was horrible.

LOVE: Did you tell your buddies that you're like, but "I can hoop though."

LEMON: So let's get back on track. This is black history month, you are right. Your mother emphasized civil rights. You emphasized service. You said you struggled with the cliche that you are acting white because you were educated in what you did. Why did you fee that way?

LOVE: You know, in the circle of guys that I was really close with, you know, I spent more time with folks, who didn't look like me, and didn't look like my group of friends, and I got ridiculed for it a little bit.

LEMON: The president never talked to you about that -- you did, you learned from him about that.

LOVE: Yes, we talked about it a bit about race about race in this country, and what it means to be an African-American man, and I think that he has a really good understanding of it, people always say, you know, is the president black enough or has he done enough for black people specifically.

But I think that, you know, his whole mantra has been that I am going to do things that are good for the country, and that are going to bring along everyone in the country, and I think him being there alone.

And I think, one, gives the people the vision and the hope that, you know, through the hard work and persistence and like regardless of what you look like and where you are from and what the last name is that you can achieve and do anything, and it is a powerful thing to be able to say.

LEMON: Some people don't believe that -- I believe that --

LOVE: I'm sitting here on CNN with you right now. Are you kidding me? You and I, it is pretty amazing. I never thought that a kid from North Carolina who, you know, I grew up doing this thing about maybe one day I will play a little bit of basketball one day and have a chance to, you know, pull my family out of our circumstances, anything is possible.

LEMON: I believe that regardless of the circumstances, wherever you came from, that you can end up in the White House. I know that some people think that is idealistic or, you know, Pollyannaish, but I actually believe that. I wish every person in the country, regardless of ethnicity or race would believe that.

LOVE: I am right there with you, Don. I feel the same way.

LEMON: Do you think we will ever have another black president in our lifetime?

LOVE: Well, I think there is a chance because there are some really good folks out there who are doing great work. You have the Deval Patricks, and the Cory Bookers out there, who are really, you know, having an impact.

LEMON: OK. So, let's do the lightning round because you've said you handled his Kindle, his travel, you were his travel agent, his messenger, his punching bag, his alarm clock, vending machine, on and on and on, chief of staff. What was go-to snack?

LOVE: MetRex power bar.

LEMON: What kept you up at night?

LOVE: My God, what didn't -- everything, the fact of the idea of me forgetting something or him running into someone and being like, I talked to Reggie about this, and he has not yet done it.

LEMON: What color of pen does he prefer?

LOVE: Black. Not that pen you are using, but the uniball one.

LEMON: Uniball black, OK. That is joke there, and I know it and best shot on the court?

LOVE: He's got a little right-handed drive, but then it comes back to the left hand and shoots kind of in the middle of the paint.

LEMON: You guys still play pickup games?

LOVE: We try to play. We played on his birthday last year, but he is dropped a lot of strokes off of his golf game. I think he is playing a little more golf than his hoops.

LEMON: What do you want people to know about Barack Obama, the president, the man, that people don't know about?

LOVE: The guy really wants to make things better for people. He has a ton of empathy. I can remember back to days like during the campaign, before he was even, and before people thought that he would be president, he would run into someone at a round table.

And they were like, down and out on the luck, and he would be like, Reggie, call Harry, and get like a -- you know, get a certified check and send it anonymously to this young woman or guy who is their car is broken down.

And they can't get to work or whatever, and he would, you know, just that is the guy he is. You know, he is just, a guy that wants people to have a chance.

LEMON: What are you going to do? Are you going to be president? What are you going to do?

LOVE: Am going to be president? No, I'm going to be engaged and involved, man, I think the political process is important.

LEMON: All right.

LOVE: And I will always have an active role to try to shape what our country looks like.

LEMON: Thank You, Reggie Love. I am very jealous of your name.

LOVE: I can license it to you, you know, if you want.

LEMON: The book is called "Power Forward, My Presidential Education."

LOVE: Thank you, Don. You read that?

LEMON: Yes.

LOVE: That is amazing. I can't believe it.

LEMON: Dog eared and everything. Good guy. Buy the book, my new hero.

Up next, you know, we provide drinks, and snacks in our greenroom for all of the guests on the show, well, tonight, for the first time, we got to provide raw chicken. There is Morgan Spurlock and Friends, they join me when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back here with me, Reggie Love.

MORGAN SPURLOCK, "INSIDE MAN": I'm the Reggie Love.

LEMON: Hang on, Morgan Spurlock. What is better than a day at the zoo on the other side of the bars? It can be pretty dangerous work as my next guest learned firsthand. I'm talking about Morgan Spurlock. Tomorrow night, Morgan Spurlock "INSIDE MAN", take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will let you operate the door if you'd like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there he is. Whoa. He is pursing the lips.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is called the threat face. They stand very rigid and very tall, and then purse their lips, and really very tight. And then just because -- and when you give them things, you want to make sure that your fingers don't cross.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they can just take it from you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about a banana and then there is that?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: No cuddling. No smooching, no?

SPURLOCK: No, they are not smoochy. I want to make my threat face.

LEMON: "INSIDE MAN" Morgan Spurlock. We saw a lot of "INSIDE" Morgan Spurlock last week so no more of that.

SPURLOCK: No more of that.

LEMON: You brought some friends with you because you are taking a look at zoos, right?

SPURLOCK: Right. And one of the questions we asked is, you know, we have all of these zoos in the United States and we constantly hear about animal conservationism, and we should be having a society where we continue to reinforce this idea of captivity in America. That is something should be happening and that's what we explored in this episode.

LEMON: OK, so you brought some friends with you.

SPURLOCK: I brought Nature Nick.

LEMON: Nature Nick looks like me before makeup. OK, so tell me about Nature Nick?

SPURLOCK: Well, Nature Nick brought a little al monkey tonight who is here with us.

LEMON: Nature Nick, he is Nature Nick. Who is this? What's his name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is Abu the monkey. You can give him a treat.

LEMON: Will he bite me?

NATURE NICK: No, he is a good monkey. He is not like most monkeys. They come from Brazil and Central America, and he is nice. He is 5 years old, and they can live to be 20 years old, very long time.

SPURLOCK: Did he grow up in captivity? Was he born in captivity?

NATURE NICK: He was born in captivity. He grew up doing that.

LEMON: Someone like him, is he happy in captivity?

NATURE NICK: This guy is very happy. If an animal is raised and trained properly, it could be very happy.

LEMON: Are there certain animals, though, that should not be in captivity? We do a lot of things on sharks and -- there we go.

NATURE NICK: Well, now, as time goes on, there are ethical dilemmas to keep larger animals with whales and the elephants.

LEMON: Yes.

NATURE NICK: Exactly. So there are more studies that we need to do and be cognizant of the fact that we need to give them a more natural life and behavior.

SPURLOCK: We showed up at the Detroit Zoo and incredible group of people who have a beautiful zoo, and some phenomenal animals, but one of the things that happened is Winky and Wanda, two elephants that were living in the cold of Detroit throughout the winters.

And they basically need the decision that they should keep these elephants at their zoo anymore and they made the decision to send them out to a sanctuary in California and this is one of the conversations that continues to happen in zoos.

LEMON: And he is so cute. What you say it's Boo?

NATURE NICK: No, Abu like in "Aladdin."

LEMON: All right, who else do we have?

NATURE NICK: We have quite a few other animals. He likes Morgan. Morgan is the same color.

SPURLOCK: He did leave us a little present there.

LEMON: It is looking like doggie treats there. And who's next? This one comes from my hometown.

NATURE NICK: It's a reptile.

LEMON: Put him on the desk.

NATURE NICK: Absolutely.

NATURE NICK: See if he comes out. I want to make sure that I know where the head is facing first.

LEMON: My goodness, am I doing to be having fingers if I touch him?

NATURE NICK: Well, Boots, because he won't be boots, any time soon, so that is how we got the name.

LEMON: Wow, that tail is strong. Does this help with the conversation, because people like to hunt them, and when you two to Louisiana, you will see the heads in the shops and everything.

NATURE NICK: Well, those heads don't help, but what I do, I try to show that these guys are really, and he is really stretching out, and he is happy to be here.

LEMON: What did you learn about these?

SPURLOCK: Well, the amazing thing about the alligators like this is that one of the animals that people take home as pets, and so a lot of folks will get them when they are babies, they are like six inches long and people take them home saying how cute it is.

And then every year they grow another foot, and so the next thing you know in the second year, they are 18 inches long and the next thing two feet long and then suddenly, you have a four-foot long alligator in your apartment.

And there have been stories in New York City where people have six- foot alligators in their bathtub, and tigers there, and it is a scary proposition to have something like this that grows into the full-grown alligator in your house.

And sometimes they get dumped into the sewers, back in the day, now what happens is zoos come in and rescue them places, you know, from people who shouldn't be having these in their homes to begin with.

LEMON: So he is calming down now that he knows that we are not going to hurt him.

SPURLOCK: Well, it is kind of cold here.

LEMON: And usually you break up with the cold blooded things. All right, we're going to come back, Morgan is coming back with another friend. Wait until you see this friend. You will like it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hugh Jackman is here. This is Hugh Jackman.

SPURLOCK: It's very exciting. Look at him.

LEMON: It is hard to imagine Hugh Jackman behind bars. That is his name, right, Hugh the Kangaroo?

SPURLOCK: It is hard to imagine animals like this behind the bars.

SPURLOCK: It is but you know, this one that small wallaby so people look at this, and you know, Nick told me a very disturbing story while we are in commercial break, which I will let him share, but when you go to a with big place like Australia, you should not buy a stuffed animal, why?

NATURE NICK: Because they could have been made from a Hugh Jackman here like this, and small wallabies are declining in numbers because of that.

SPURLOCK: And one of the biggest threats to animals like this are us, human beings, and talking about why we should not have animals in captivity is because of us. We are ruining their habitats. We are kind of encroaching on them with growth, with, you know, buildings, homes and everything. So what can be done?

NATURE NICK: It is absolutely unavoidable because of the situations that you just explained. So where it's right or wrong, it's here to stay. It's not going anywhere.

LEMON: You can see Morgan Spurlock, "INSIDE MAN," tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN. Good night, buddy. Good night, Hugh Jackman. We have to get right back over here and get some serious stuff. Thank you very much. Our live coverage continues now with John Vause and Zain Asher at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Good night.