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Don Lemon Tonight

CBS' Bob Simon Dead at 73; Williams Suspended, Stewart Steps Down; Three Muslim Students Shot in Chapel Hill; "American Sniper" Killer's Trial Begins

Aired February 11, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, thank you very much.

Sad breaking news to report tonight, CBS News correspondent Bob Simon dead at the age 73.

And, Anderson, you worked very closely with Bob, when you're -- I'm happy to have you here to talk about this. You knew him better than any of us here. And talk to me about his life and his legacy in journalism.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I don't want to pretend that I, you know, hang out socially with Bob. I would talk to him in the office and literally I can say from the time I was a kid watching CBS News growing up, because that's what we watched in my house, I've admired and looked up to Bob Simon. I think from the time I was a kid, I -- his voice was so strong as a writer, and back then, he was a correspondent in the Middle East.

And I just -- to me, he was everything a reporter should be and that I dreamed of being, and still to this day hope to be, you know, a quarter of the reporter and the writer that Bob Simon is and has been, and to even be in the same office as him, you know, at "60 Minutes" is a -- it's a place full of great writers and producers and correspondents, but Bob Simon was a legend in my opinion, and somebody I was intimidated by.

I was shy to talk to him. He started to kind of poke fun at me a couple of years back. This year, he was poking fun at me because I was getting short haircuts, and -- but he was just a lovely guy. The producers who worked with him loved to work with him, and you can't say that about everybody in this business. You know, he was a treat, from everything I've heard, to be on the road with.

And again, you knew, when you -- when Bob Simon presented a story on "60 Minutes" you knew it was going to be something special, no matter what it was. He had this curiosity and his willingness to go anywhere. And for somebody who'd been in the business that long, and seen as many things as he had seen, to still have that curiosity and that desire to tell other people's stories, it's an incredible thing and it's just so stunning to me that he is gone.

LEMON: I can only imagine, and we should mention again that he died in a car accident in Manhattan, and you have been reporting about this, Anderson.

He was, you know, the war correspondent of war correspondents. He'd been all over the world. He had covered everything basically since the 1960s.

I believe we have a clip of his work. Let's look at it then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SIMON, CBS NEWS: So the government effort at the time was to convince people that there was nothing to worry about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. Nothing to worry about. Don't worry, OK. Even don't prepare for that, the severe accident, because that would cause unnecessary unease and unnecessary misunderstanding.

SIMON: And there's no reason to prepare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No reason to prepare. So this avoidance ultimately translated into unpreparedness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was him reporting on the earthquake in Fukushima, and you know, we've been talking about the changing media landscape, not everybody in this business, hardly anyone, could write like Bob Simon, and that's, you know, the old school guys. That's -- the rigor of writing was really important to him.

COOPER: I mean, his voice, you know, it's one thing to be able to write, it's another thing to have a voice, and write in your voice. You can write, like, you know, you can make something we like, copy like anybody else. When Bob Simon presented, you know, a real -- a story, it was a story nobody else could have written in that way. Just his turn of phrase, his use of words, his reverence for sound and pictures.

I talk to producers because, I mean, I would interview, like producers who I work with "60 Minutes," with Bob Simon, Michael Gavshon, others producers who'd worked with Bob Simon over the years, I would want to work with them so I could learn a little bit of what Bob Simon knew. And, you know, they would tell me, he would look at all the footage that were shot, which is something a lot of people don't really do.

He would write to pictures, he would -- he would sit there, I remember walking by a couple of weeks ago in "60 Minutes," walking by an edit room, and there he was. Just sitting in the edit room. You know, with the producers, with the editor. You know, it's many hours of work sitting in the edit room, but he was there because that's the way he was able to craft the stories when he craft it.

LEMON: He survived, Anderson, he was 73 years old, survived by his wife Francoise, his daughter Tanya, who's a "60 Minutes" producer. What can you tell us about her? Do you know? COOPER: Yes. I've worked with Tanya on a number of stories. You

know I did a profile on Eminem together. We're working on something actually right now together. You know, she's a great producer. And she's somebody who, you know, grew up, learning from her dad. And she's a remarkable strong lady, and I just -- I feel for her, for Bob's wife, who I don't know, and for his entire family.

You know, again -- you know, this was a guy -- he was captured -- he was taken prisoner in Iraq by Saddam's forces. And you know had a -- by all accounts a very rough time. And you know, this was somebody who had survived so many close encounters over the years, so many desperate and difficult situations in the Middle East covering, you know, in Israel and elsewhere, for him to die like this, you know, it's one of the things Jeff Fager, the executive producer, said in a statement tonight it's incomprehensible.

LEMON: I think he was, you know, captive for 40 -- I think 40, 41 days. What do you think he's going to be most remembered for? And after -- and also, can you read the statement -- you mentioned the statement from Jeff Fager. Can you read part of it for us, Anderson?

COOPER: Yes, I'll -- I just got to get it up from my phone right now. Jeff, who's the executive producer, who's known Bob, you know, for a lifetime said, "It's a terrible loss for all of us at CBS News. Such a tragedy made worse because we lost him at a car accident. A man who's escaped more difficult situations than any one journalist in modern times. Bob was a reporter's reporter. He was driven by natural curiosity that took him all over the world, covering every kind of story imaginable. There was no one else like Bob Simon. All of us at CBS News and particularly at "60 Minutes". We will miss him very much."

LEMON: Yes. I -- I can feel it. Sorry, I'm really sorry. I have to say I did not know him at all, and you know, we talk about someone who's 73 years old. I was discussing with my next guest, Anderson, we're at some function, I can't remember what it was, a media thing, maybe a book thing. And I was with some younger journalists who were just coming up, and they were talking to me, and all of a sudden this guy walks over and then about five minutes into it, we were like, oh my gosh, you're Bob Simon, and he just hang out with us and spoke to us. Just a really great guy.

COOPER: Yes. And I mean, a delight to work with, from every producer I've talked to who worked with him, I mean, they loved to be in the field with him. He -- you know, they knew not only was he going to get an amazing story, but also he enjoyed the process and he was enjoyable to be with. And you know, that's important. It's a family -- when you're working on these stories, it's a family that comes together from disparate parts of the world, and Bob Simon was the head of that family.

And, you know, I think that all those who worked with him, all have special memories, and it's -- I think it's incomprehensible for a lot of people that this has happened. I mean, it happened while, you know, we got the word while we're on the air. I just -- it' incomprehensible. LEMON: Yes. And I understand that you're hurting, and the family,

I'm sure, obviously hurting as well.

Thank you, Anderson, our thoughts and prayers to the family and also to the folks over at CBS and "60 Minutes."

Appreciate it, Anderson.

I'm joined now by Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, and Gabriel Sherman, contributing editor to -- at "New York" magazine.

Good evening, gentlemen. What a shocking loss. What a loss, in a car accident.

GABRIEL SHERMAN, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Yes.

LEMON: Here in Manhattan.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: A man who joined CBS News in 1957. How many people can we say that about who are still working, still producing pieces in television, and his just happened to air three days ago on "60 Minutes." It was a piece "When Selma Meets Hollywood," about the film "Selma."

He was working full time for "60 Minutes", one of just a few correspondents at that most prestigious posts in American broadcast journalism. And even at the age of 73 still sharing so much with all of us, all of the viewers of "60 Minutes."

LEMON: What kind of loss is this for "60 Minutes" and for the industry?

SHERMAN: Well, and to me as a reporter, anyone in this business, you know, I think of Bob Simon's work, and you see that he brings the world back to viewers at home, and in our increasingly fractured and shrinking media -- world that we live in. You know, he did this ambitious stories.

You know, went -- they showed a clip here. He went to the Arctic and did a piece on polar bears that I remember well. He would go to Africa and do pieces on wildlife in recent years. And that kind of ambition I think is lacking in many ways in the news business and he stood for that. And to me as a working reporter, I really admired him. He inspired that.

LEMON: As we're reporting here tonight the death of 73-year-old Bob Simon, the longtime CBS correspondent and also "60 Minutes" of course war correspondent, died tonight in an accident here in Manhattan. A car accident. We'll continue to report on that.

And as you can tell from watching this broadcast, this story and others, it has been a dramatic week in television. Last night we had Brian Williams' suspension and Jon Stewart's announcement he was stepping down.

Here's CNN's Will Ripley. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Brian Williams and Jon Stewart, two monumental TV starts, rising to the top. Blurring the line between real and fake news.

Last night, back-to-back bombshell departures.

(On camera): Stewart announcing he is leaving "The Daily Show" for good, Williams suspended from "NBC Nightly News" for six months.

(Voice-over): The Comedy Central host, an influential commentator and guest. The NBC anchor a fixture on comedy shows and late-night.

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: Two of our four helicopters were hit by ground fire including the one I was in.

RIPLEY: Williams crossed that blurred line between fact and fiction, exaggerating a story from his coverage of the Iraq war. Stewart lampooned his longtime friend.

JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Why, Brie? Why, Brie, lie?

JEFF CHOWN, PRESIDENT, CELEBRITY ACQUISITION AT THE MARKETING ARM: Trust is one of the hardest things to ever get back once you've lost it.

RIPLEY: Before the scandal, America's number one anchor was the 23rd most trusted person in the country according to research firm The Marketing Arm. Now he is at 835.

CHOWN: Brian Williams is in the upper echelon of most trusted celebrities. He was up there with the likes of Warren Buffett. Post this scandal he's plummeted to the range of Willie Robertson from "Duck Dynasty."

RIPLEY: Such a drastic drop in credibility poses huge problems for NBC News.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a powerful thing called trust.

RIPLEY: The network invested two decades and reportedly tens of millions of dollars in Williams, the face of its news division.

WILLIAMS: It is hot, it's damp --

RIPLEY: His reporting during Hurricane Katrina which helped NBC win a Peabody also under scrutiny.

ERIC DEZENHALL, CRISIS MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT, AUTHOR, "DAMAGE CONTROL": We don't know whether or not we are dealing with one fabrication or seven.

RIPLEY: Crisis management consultant Eric Dezenhall says NBC did the right thing by not immediately firing Williams but says it's too soon to know if he'll ever anchor again. Tonight Lester Holt illustrating NBC's position.

LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS: It is an enormously difficult story to report, Brian is a member of our family. But so are you, our viewers. And we work every night to be worthy of your trust.

RIPLEY: President Bill Clinton, media mogul Martha Stewart and junk bond king Michael Milken, three major figures who bounced back from scandal eventually.

DEZENHALL: Most targets of crises recover. They don't necessarily recover to the degree that they want and with the speed that they want.

RIPLEY: Williams is off of the air until at least August. Stewart's final show unknown.

Two TV stars, on leaving on a career high, the other facing an uncertain future.

Will Ripley, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Back with me now, Gabe Sherman and also our very own Brian Stelter here.

Is he coming back, Gabe?

SHERMAN: I -- it's hard to say. I mean, I think the word inside NBC, it's going to be very difficult for him to recover.

LEMON: Morale is not good?

STELTER: That's right. Really, there is some people at the network who do not believe that the management can lead this network forward, but the president of NBC News, Deborah Turness, tried to respond to that today by a meeting with staff, by taking their questions about the suspension, and by listening to feedback. And there was some angry feedback.

I'm told the mood of, like, "Nightly News," was like a funeral, and you can understand why. It really feels like they've lost Brian Williams, even if he's only suspended, even if he can come back, it's a devastating blow for NBC News.

LEMON: We're going to report what happened at the top of the newscast, Brian Williams' name taken off of that audio track and that's the first time that's has happened in 10 years.

We'll have that for you when we come back and talk about the future, what's ahead for Brian Williams.

Plus the shocking murders of three Muslim university students. The family calls this a hate crime. The suspect's wife says it had nothing to do with religion.

Where does the truth lie?

Also the latest on another shocking crime making headlines. The "American Sniper" trial. What Chris Kyle's widow says he told her in their last phone call shortly before he was murdered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Our breaking news tonight, CBS News correspondent Bob Simon has died. The 73-year-old was killed tonight in an auto accident here in New York City. Simon was known for reporting on some of the biggest stories from around the world since the late 1960s. He was a regular contributor to "60 Minutes" and a correspondent for all seven seasons of "60 Minutes," too.

Joining me now to discuss this and more, Lanny Davis, the author of "Crisis Tales: Five Rules for Coping with Crisis in Business, Politics and Life," and former White House special counsel for the Clinton administration. Also Mark Feldstein of the University of Maryland's Merrill College of Journalism, and Brian Stelter and Gabriel Sherman back with us.

We've reported on the death of Bob Simon, again, as we've talking, changing media landscape. This was a big change tonight if you watch the "Nightly News." Listen to the open of their show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLT: It is an enormously difficult story to report. Brian is a member of our family, but so are you, our viewers. We will work every night to be worthy of your trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So that was Lester Holt and he looked pretty and sounded pretty pained. He took the words right out of -- the word right out of my mouth. But also, but also in -- at the top of that, for "NBC Nightly News," it usually says, "This is NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams."

STELTER: That's right.

LEMON: And so it said tonight, "NBC Nightly News, Lester Holt reporting."

STELTER: One more indication that NBC is at least for now removing Brian Williams --

SHERMAN: Dismantling it.

STELTER: From the network. I mean, he is stay thing at home, and he's not coming into work. This is a real suspension and with obviously financial costs as with. We're talking about six months' of salary on the side, as well. That's at least $5 million. You can imagine --

SHERMAN: I think that's number is higher. I mean, he's left a lot of money on the table, and you think about the millions of marketing dollars they put in to building him up as an anchor.

STELTER: Right.

SHERMAN: To strip his name from that -- from that title. That's a huge loss that the network is taking.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Lanny Davis, what are you -- what are you think of this? His name isn't on the broadcast anymore?

LANNY DAVIS, AUTHOR, CRISIS TALES: Well, first of all, we all have to be sad for what was a great career that has been at least abruptly stopped and I hope will be allowed to be come back because I haven't yet been convinced and I'm glad to be able to ask this question of Brian that there is a difference -- researchers have proven there's a difference between memory mistakes and lies. And I haven't seen the evidence of intentional misrepresentation.

Brian, you were the recipient of a text message from a helicopter pilot who the day before on CNN said that he had piloted Brian Williams, and that there had been ground fire, although not Brian Williams' helicopter. The next day he texted you, at least I read this on CNN.

STELTER: That's right.

DAVIS: And he said, my memory was wrong. Now we give him -- for sure, I give him the benefit of the doubt. Why the double standard? The -- the jump and rush to judgment that he lied I think is premature.

STELTER: I think one of the reasons why we've seen more scrutiny of Williams is that there's been other stories come up involving Hurricane Katrina, as you know. But I think you're making an important point. Williams says these were a series of innocent mistakes, we should say that as well when we're talking about this topic.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: The "Stars and Stripes" interview that came out a week ago, suggested he was continuing to say some of the same wrong things, even when confronted with the evidence.

SHERMAN: And I want to just add one thing. In my reporting, I found out that people inside NBC were trying to get him to stay closer to the facts. His former boss Steve Capus, Tom Brokaw is another, had heard him tell these stories over the years, and they tried to rein him in, so I don't think this is a clear set case. It might be faulty memory, but my sense is that even his colleagues felt he had a tendency to embellish.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But I want you -- go ahead, Mark. MARK FELDSTEIN, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND'S MERRILL COLLEGE OF

JOURNALISM: Yes. It raises the question about NBC management and what their culpability in all of this, if they knew about this and there have been credible reports that they received the information about these exaggerations and lies, yes, I think we can use the word lie. Contrary to what Lanny Davis says. From military eyewitnesses and -- or at least military eyewitness and others within NBC.

The question has to be asked, was NBC management protected him? Were they covering up, you know, in the scandal?

And Lanny, you know you wrote a book on this. I mean, it's often not the crime but the cover-up itself. And so the issue is greater than Brian Williams. If I were running Comcast I'd be asking some serious questions about the management of NBC.

LEMON: Can I jump in? Can I jump in here? Because -- do we really need to re-litigate this? OK? Because you're reporting that they handed him a dossier of his reporting and maybe misrepresentation. He's admitted --

SHERMAN: Yes.

LEMON: -- that he overstated the fact.

STELTER: But let's say, it is possible here. Let's look at one possible scenario, which is that NBC is trying to distance itself from Brian Williams. Trying to create a lot of space between executives and Brian Williams.

SHERMAN: Sure.

STELTER: It's possible that they want us all to believe that there's a lot of bad things out there about Brian Williams. I'm not saying that's happening. I'm just saying it's one possibility. There are points in these sorts of scandals where the interest of the anchor, the interest of the networks evolved.

SHERMAN: Of course. Yes.

LEMON: Yes. I've got to get to -- I've got to get to Jon Stewart. He's a good friend, by the way. Let's take a listen to what he told his audience last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: Seventeen years is the longest I have ever in my life held a job by 16 years and five months. Thank you. The upshot there being, I am a terrible employee, but in my heart I know it is time for someone else to have that opportunity. And -- now, now, now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Yes, that's what I was going to say. STELTER: That's how your audience would react.

LEMON: Sound like the most of us. The longest I have ever been in a job is three years, this is the longest I've been. I know what he's saying, and to be able to -- it's important, Lanny, especially when you have jobs in the media, when you have a job like Jon Stewart to be -- just to be able to spin, have a dinner with your family on a weeknight is a big deal for me, he said that's what he's going to do.

DAVIS: Look, I love Jon Stewart, but a lot of the kids including my own mistake what he does for news. And I think he's a great, great talent, but kids should be watching the nightly newscast and not Jon Stewart for news.

But do you mind if I just come back in about one more time? Everything I heard very distinguished panel that you have tonight, no facts, just suggestions, innuendo, there is a file, we hear that. One of the things as a crisis manager, I'm surprised that NBC isn't more transparent. Is allowing somebody to be hung out on innuendo, no facts tonight. The only thing we know is Brian Williams says he had a memory conflation, a misremember is what the gentleman told in your -- the text message to you.

One day he said he was flying that helicopter, the next day he said, oops, I misremembered because I heard other pilots. We don't know whether he lied.

LEMON: But clearly --

DAVIS: I respect you if you think he did, but there's too much innuendo and NBC is responsible for not being more transparent about exactly what they know, what they don't know and what they are investigating.

LEMON: If it was all just innuendo, Lanny, do you think that they would pull their multimillion dollar anchor off of the newscast just --

DAVIS: And --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Clearly -- hang on, hang on, let me finish my statement.

DAVIS: Yes.

LEMON: Clearly they must know, and they obviously do because they're at the center of it, more than what any of us on this panel, anybody in the media, even our, you know, trusty media correspondent here, they know more than what we know.

DAVIS: Don, I agree with you. The inference is that $5 million is what they fine him. Six months that might kill a career. The must. But the fact that we don't know sitting here tonight anymore than what Brian has said, and this is a man whose lifetime career is now at risk, we should at least know why they rushed so quickly to do this and I would say that at the very least at some point they need to be transparent if not. At some point.

And Brian Williams at some point should respond to media questions in detail as to what caused this, what I still believe was an honest memory mistake.

LEMON: That's going to have to be it, thank you very well, but thank you, Lanny Davis, and thanks to the rest of our panel here.

When we come right back, true crime stories. The execution style slayings of three Muslim university students. Was it a hate crime?

Also the American sniper trial begins with the day just as dramatic as anything in the movie. We will have a live report for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The case of three Muslim students killed execution-style near the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, there's a lot of people asking, was it a hate crime?

CNN's Jason Carroll has the story for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOHAMMAD ABU-SALHA, FATHER OF MURDER VICTIMS: I don't think there's a word to describe the pain. If it weren't for honoring my children and wanting to tell the world their story, I would not be talking.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mohammad Abu-Salha says he is numb, still in shock over the loss of his two daughters, Razan and Yusor, and Deah Barakat, Yusor's husband.

ABU-SALHA: And no matter how much I grieve, I cannot grieve like my wife does. I don't think that we can feel it well now until we see the bodies and have the burial. We're in shock. Two children of ours and our son-in-law.

CARROLL: All three shot execution style, a bullet to the head. A frantic 911 call Tuesday night of shots fired at the victim's apartment complex near the University of North Carolina's Chapel Hill campus where they lived.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just heard gunshot, I don't know what the building it came from but I heard kids screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How long did you hear it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably 30 seconds ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How many shots did you hear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Multiple, I mean, at least between five and 10 I would say.

CARROLL: Later that night, the victims' neighbor, 46-year-old, Craig Hicks turned himself into the police. They charged him with three counts of first-degree murder.

Now there are questions about the motive. All three victims were Muslim, the women's father called the attack a hate crime, saying his daughters and his son-in-law were targeted because of their faith.

ABU-SALHA: My daughter, Yusor, honest to God, told us on more than two occasions that this man came knocking at the door and fighting about everything with a gun on his belt, more than twice. She told us, "Daddy I think he hates us for who we are and how we look. Reporter: Investigators say the shooting was the result of a longstanding dispute between neighbors.

RIPLEY RAND, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF NORTH CAROLINA: I did want to make sure that the folks knew, that based on all of the information that our office and the law enforcement has at this time, that the events of yesterday are not part of a targeted campaign against Muslims in north Carolina, or anything other than an individual event.

CARROLL: Hicks' wife expressed her condolence, also saying her husband's motive for the murder had nothing to do with religion.

KAREN HICKS, WIFE OF CRAIG STEPHEN HICKS: I can say with my absolute belief that, this incident had nothing to do with religion or victims' faith, but in fact was related to the longstanding parking disputes that my husband had with the neighbors.

CARROLL: Barakat was a second-year dental student, his wife set to begin her studies at the same UNC School of Dentistry. Her sister was also a student at nearby NC State in Raleigh. Barakat was also raising money to provide dental care to Syrian refugees. Abu- Salha called them the kind of children parents wish for, now gone.

ABU-SALHA: They leave a scent of flowers and a breeze and alive in our lives. They will be missed. I don't think I can feel my sadness, yes. It will come one on by myself. When the truth will come out, and I look until I see it on their faces and the holes and the lumps and the stitches.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: Well Don, the Chapel Hill police department says, if they will exhaust every lead in this case but, as you heard there are many people in this community, including the victim's father believe in his heart that this was indeed a hate crime. Don?

LEMON: This is just awful. Jason Carroll, thank you very much.

I want to bring in now, Nida Allam, friend of the victims, and Omar Abdelbaky, who knows the victim Deah Barakat, very well. I want to say both -- both of you we are very sorry about the loss of your friends. And now that you know, you just come back from a vigil in honor of your friends, what -- tell us about the mood there?

NIDA ALLAM, FRIEND OF MURDER VICTIM DEAH BAKARAT: Everyone is still in shock. But seeing the family and how strong they are really helped our, us. Yusor and Razan's friends and Deah's friend, seeing how strong they were and just believing they are in a better place and they're happy.

LEMON: You have known them since high school, right? Tell us about them.

ALLAM: Yes. Deah and I went to brought (ph) in together, and he was the type of person that always made everyone laugh. He was always kind of a jokester, but he was always nice, and he never wanted to hurt anyone. And Yusor, I wasn't close to her in high school, yet, she became close in college. We had a class together last semester and that's on we really start to getting closer. And we'd always sit together in class and he has joke around, and eat fruit roll-ups in the back of the class. And --

LEMON: I'm glad you guys could at least have a -- a smile, a moment right there. You know, Deah was in his second year of dentistry school and he was raising money, he was going to on a mission to provide dental care to refugees. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAH BAKARAT, SECOND YEAR DENTISTRY STUDENT: Have you ever felt helpless about the situation in Syria and felt like you can't do anything about it? Well, this is your opportunity to help. This summer, I'm embarking on a trip to Turkey with 10 dentists to help Syrian refugees who are in need of urgent dental care. We'll be doing extractions, fillings, root canals and oral hygiene instructions to those who most many need.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Omar, you're close friend of his, tell us about the man. Saw the video.

OMAR ABDELBAKY, FRIEND OF MURDER VICTIM DEAH BAKARAT: Yeah, I mean, the video just scratches the surface -- all that Deah is. He is just so selfless, and so generous, and it really gives you a peek into his personality, and how he is always willing to help, and always looking for ways to help people. He's just the kindest, gentlest soul that rest of us who ever met. Just recently, he was posting on Facebook about being at a local homeless shelter where he was helping give out toothbrushes, and toothpaste and going over oral hygiene instructions there, and he immediately texted one of my classmates that works with the free clinic at the school and asked him how you could get people from the homeless shelter connected to the dental school, how to get them over to the free clinic, if we can provide transportation. He's always constantly thinking about ways to help people, and so genuine and pure about it and --

LEMON: Yeah. ABDELBAKY: It really -- is a legacy that we going to try to carry on. I know that it is something that we all strive to be, he exemplified everything that we want to be as people and as dental professionals or just professionals in general.

LEMON: He is a representation of what -- what people believe Muslims, the representation that should be in media that should be covered more, the people who do kind things, and do missions like that. Now I understand that -- you know, many of you are thinking that it is a hate crime. Do you think Omar that, that his faith and the fact that the women wearing head scarves that play into the murders at all. Do you think it was a hate crime?

ABDELBAKY: I know that there's an ongoing investigation, and right now, we've just put all our focus into thinking about and remembering Deah, Yusor and Razan and not so much about why it happened, but more about, that it has happened and how we can remember them, we carry on their legacy for a very long time.

LEMON: Nida, I will ask you the same question, do you think it was a hate crime?

ALLAM: Like Omar said, it's just -- everyone is in shock. We don't know why it happened, and we just want to remember them not by the way they died, but by the way they lived and how they changed everyone's lives that they met.

LEMON: Thank you very much, our thoughts are with you. We appreciate your coming on, such a tough time.

ADBELBAKY: Thank you.

ALLAM: Thank you.

LEMON: We have much more to come tonight. The family -- calling this a hate crime, the suspect's wife saying religion had nothing to do with it. How do we get to the truth here?

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LEMON: All three victims in the Chapel Hill triple murder were Muslims. And because of comment, the suspect allegedly left on Facebook, a lot of people on social media rising the question was this a hate crime?

So joining me to talk about, this is Nihad Awad, he's the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic relations, and CNN Legal Analyst Mark O'Mara. Good evening, gentlemen. What a sad evening and to -- listen, I don't know how about to young people have the courage even come on television tonight. Nihad you know, you called on law enforcement authorities to address speculations about possible bias motive for the killing of these three young people -- three young Muslims. Do you believe it was a hate crime?

NIHAD AWAD, FOUNDER OF THE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: Well thanks for having me Don, first. Amir and Abu-Salha to support (ph) the family, we drove our promotion from D.C. I personally met with the parents of the three victims, and I spoke to the fathers of them. One father told me that he has two daughters. A one father told me that his two daughters, one of them, the one who got married, Yusor, and moved to her husband. Felt, according to him the hostility from the neighbor, and she believed that because of her being Muslim wearing the hijab and she showed her anxiety and fear with her father, and her father told us this. So, we -- we asked the local law enforcement and for their law enforcement authorities to take that into account, while investigating. Today, I met with the mayor with the police chief and with the U.S. district attorney office, and we trust that this investigation will not rule out any possibility including a hate crime. The focus should be tonight and for many days to come -- on the beautiful lives that, not only the Muslim community lost, but the nation. These beautiful and courageous contributing vibrant three individuals have inspired the thousands of people...

LEMON: Right.

AWAD: To be active, to be participant in community service. And when you look from the way I saw here on Chapel Hill -- throughout the vigil that took place, thousands of people turned up from the entire local community. It's very heartwarming that these three individuals who knew nothing about hate and their lives with were ended in a very, very sad manner...

LEMON: And Nihad, you heard from the two students there who went to the vigil tonight and they're echoing what you say. And I want to talk a little bit more about the hate crime aspects of this. Mark, I want to read this to you, this is from the Facebook page of the gunman his name is Craig Hicks. He describes himself as an anti-theist, and he posted condemnations of all religions. He also allegedly posted anti- religious this on his Facebook page. Here's -- here is what it says, "When it comes to insults, your religion started this, not me. If your religion kept its big mouth shut, so would I." I need to say that CNN couldn't independently confirm the authenticity of the post on his Facebook page, but it's also -- and it's also unclear which religion he's talking about, Mark.

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

LEMON: Having said that and read that and you heard from the students, you heard from the family, do you believe that these three murders were motivated by to an anti-Islam bias?

O'MARA: Well, first my prayers are with the victim's family and the whole Muslim community with what they're going through with this loss. The hate crime status that are passed or sort of a filter (ph) that we looked at any violent crime, to see whether or not, one of the reasons for the crime was hatred and animosity towards religion, race, ethnicity. So, I like the idea that we have, the hate crime statues, and that we are talking about it, because we need to look to a focus to see whether or not this man acted with hatred. Certainly, what you just mentioned is one element, one piece of evidence that suggests that he had a hatred or dislike for the Muslim community, potentially. If that was the only piece of evidence, I don't think it's enough quite honestly, but, what I do think we need to do is to wait that law enforcement do their job that they're going to do. To look through the social media, see what groups he is a neighbor of, see his neighbors and what he said, because the hatred that exist for hate crime exists in the person's mind. It's how he -- a reason why he acted the way he acted, and that's going to come from the way he talks to other people. We have (inaudible) but like the idea that law enforcement is going to look at it closely because, if it gives a reason or shows the reason why this person acted, at least we might be able to learn how not to act this way in the future.

LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you. This going to have to be the last word, at least for now we have the Breaking News. So sorry to -- want to spend more time with you. Thank you both of you very much.

AWAD: Thank you.

LEMON: Coming up, the real life American Sniper story is now playing out in the Texas courtroom. We've got a live report on day 1 of the trial. The man charged with the murder of Chris Kyle.

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LEMON: The American Sniper drama is playing out on screen and in a Texas courtroom. As the movie ended star Bradley Cooper go for Oscar gold, the real life capital murder trial of the man accused of shooting Chris Kyle begin today. So let's talk about it now with CNN's Martin Savidge. Day 1 of the American Sniper trial Martin, busy day in court, what happened?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, very interesting kind of day. And here's the point that both sides agree on, and that is the defendant Eddie Routh killed Chris Kyle and his best friend, back in February of 2013, where the two sides disagree is why. The prosecution says that look, this was straight out murder, that both men were gunned down and shot multiple times, and that the defendant knew exactly what he was doing. The defense says, well, he did kill both men, but he didn't know what he was doing, as a result of a severe mental psychosis that he got, serving his country. This is the summary of both the prosecution and the defense in that order.

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ALAN NASH, ERATH COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The evidence will show that Chris Kyle was shot with a different gun a .45 caliber pistol. That is one bullet per (inaudible) shot. Four times in the back, have happened to back inside (ph) and one comes out of the head.

J. WARREN ST. JOHN, EDDIE ROUTH ATTORNEY: When he took their lives, he was in the grip of a psychosis. A psychosis so severe, at that point in time that he did not know what he was doing was wrong. He had to take their lives, because in his psychosis, he was thinking they were going to take his.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Then the defense dropped a bombshell, Chris Kyle's own words in a form of a text, on that deadly day as the three men were driving to the shooting range. Chris Kyle texted his best friend, who's sitting right next to him, and he's referring to Routh who's in the back seat. Kyle text, this guy is straight up nuts. That plays directly into what the defense is arguing, pleading insanity. Saying that Routh was out of his mind, when he killed the two men, Don?

LEMON: Thank you very much for that, Martin Savidge, we appreciate. Now, I want to bring in a man who is known -- or has known Eddie Ray Routh his whole life, and that's his cousin Adam Routh. Good evening to you. Look, you just heard Martin's report about what happened in court and what was testified to. do you have any reaction to that?

ADAM ROUTH, COUSIN OF EDDI RAY ROUTH: I mean, it pretty much speaks for itself, I would say so, sir.

LEMON: What do you mean speaks for itself?

A.ROUTH: Well, Chris Kyle already knew in the truck that Eddie was having issues. So, the whole insanity, I mean, it just fits right there and -- you know, on top of it. Eddie has tried to get help several different times, and he just finally snapped, I'd reckon.

LEMON: So tell me about your cousin. I know that you were both very close. What was he like before he began serving?

A. ROUTH: Before he began serving, he was a -- just a good old jolly boy, you know, he was always there to give a helping hand. He gives you the shirt off of his back if need be, and he just -- he loved the working, he loved being outside, he loved hunting, he loved fishing, and never really even really thought about hurting nobody.

LEMON: And before that, no -- he was not on any medication or as I understand, afterwards he was prescribed a lot of medications. Do that -- do you think he came back a changed man, and is it true, was he on a lot of medication?

A. ROTUH: Yes, sir, I do believe so. And yes, sir, they did like to shove a lot of pills down his throat from the V.A.

LEMON: And was that for PTSD?

A.ROUTH: Yes, sir. I believe it was.

LEMON: So after he returned home, what was his relationship like with drugs and alcohol?

A. ROUTH: With drugs and alcohol? Well, he did drink, and he might have smoked a little bit of marijuana but, as for the PCP thing, I've just heard that today, that -- I never seen him do anything like that.

LEMON: How did you find out about the shootings?

A. ROUTH: I found out about the shootings through Facebook, actually. I had somebody -- one of my close friends hit me up on the messenger, and let me know all about it.

LEMON: Yeah. Adam, when was the last time you saw your cousin, and do you still hear from him?

A. ROUTH: Yes, sir. I do still hear from him, quite regularly, about once a week, I'd say. But -- excuse me. The last time that I saw him was -- to Christmas just before he ended up doing the deed.

LEMON: And you said you hear about him just about -- you hear from him about once a week. How is that?

A. ROUTH: Everything, everything, we keep it simple. You know --

LEMON: I just want to know is, are you texting? Or you calling or you -- how are you hearing?

A. ROUTH: No, no. He -- he calls me. He calls me about once a week. And -- that's a -- that writing the letters sometimes.

LEMON: What does he say to you? What do you talked about?

A. ROUTH: We try to --

LEMON: What do you talked about?

A. ROUTH: We try to keep it simple. You know, just talk about how things are going on out here. You know -- definitely we stay away from the trial. You know, we don't -- we don't even talk about that. I mean, because that's a -- that's a hard enough subject in itself.

LEMON: How is he holding up?

A.ROUTH: He's -- I think he's holding up pretty good for right now. I haven't talked to him here within the past couple of days, and I'm sure he has got a lot of stress on him. But, last time I talked to him, he was doing all right.

LEMON: I want the show this drawing that he -- here it is, that he sent to you while in jail. So, what do you -- what do you make of this drawing? What is this about?

A.ROUTH: Well, I mean, my -- my cousin was a soldier. You know, this is what he loved most, ever since we were kids. He wanted to be a soldier. And I mean, the way feel about it maybe, that's what he'd rather be doing at the moment.

LEMON: Adam?

A.ROUTH: Yes, sir.

LEMON: I know it's not easy to do this, thank you so much for coming on. Will you come back?

A. ROUTH: Possibly, sir.

LEMON: I know it's tough. Thank you, Adam Routh. Appreciate it.

A. ROUTH: Yes, sir. Thank you.

LEMOMN: Right. We got much more on this, straight ahead. Plus, the latest on the other true crime story and the headlines tonight, three Muslims university students murder execution style, the suspect, a neighbor. We're going to dig in to the growing controversy. Was this a hate crime?

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