Return to Transcripts main page

Don Lemon Tonight

President YOLO-bama?; America's Obsession with "Fifty Shades of Grey"; The Violence in Pornography; Revelations at the American Sniper Trial; FBI Director Speaks Out on Police and Race Relations; NYT's David Carr Has Died

Aired February 12, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Meet Barack Yolo-bama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: YOLO, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The president makes a new BuzzFeed video to pitch to Obamacare to millennials, and over 50 million viewers can't be wrongs, or can they? Not so aloof after all, huh?

Plus, with Bradley Cooper and "American Sniper" going for Oscar gold, new revelations from the real-life trial. What the man accused of killing Chris Kyle did right after the shootings.

And another soon to be blockbuster hitting theater.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Grey will see you now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: As America works out its kinks this Valentine's weekend, does "Fifty Shades of Grey" glamorize abuse or is it just good, clean, dirty fun? We're going to debate that coming up.

We're getting to all of that tonight but I want to begin with the video that everybody is talking about tonight. The president's collaboration with BuzzFeed. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prune. Prune.

OBAMA: The deadline for signing up -- the deadline for signing up for health insurance is February --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not like any other Wednesday.

OBAMA: That's not right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wednesday.

OBAMA: Man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wednesday.

OBAMA: February 15th. February 15th. And in many cases, you can get health insurance for less than $100 a month, just go to healthcare.gov to figure out how to sign up. February 15th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Obama.

OBAMA: Thanks, Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty good.

OBAMA: That's pretty good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seconds left in the game, down by one. Buzz, he gets it.

Mr. President?

OBAMA: Can I live?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do you.

OBAMA: YOLO, man. All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's actually weird to see a BuzzFeed video outside of my laptop or my cell phone, or iPhone.

Presidents are just like us, who better to break that down than this man, you know him, you love him, ABC's "Shark Tank" Daymond John, CEO of Shark Branding.

So, Daymond, listen, I guess it worked with 50 million people. We are on television talking about it. You're the branding genius. What do you think?

DAYMOND JOHN, CEO, SHARK BRANDING: I love it. You know what? Our tax dollars are not going for paying for everyone of those spots, so I really love it. He's already saving us money.

LEMON: You think -- you think so? Is this a new commercial, you think?

JOHN: You know, I do think it's a new commercial. I love the way that he used -- he's not branding himself, he's branding himself with his initiative being the benefit, and he's always doing non- traditional media whether it's between two ferns or he's meeting the people where the people are at.

LEMON: So you're the branding genius here, as I just said, you know, we see the president sticking out his tongue, we see him winking, he's smirking, he's trying on sunglasses, all in front of a dirty mirror, I might add, I was like, why didn't they clean up the mirror?

How good or bad is this for his brand?

JOHN: I think it's excellent. I think that it's showing the people that the president is human. I think that he's doing what we all do on our own time in public or private. Who out there has not sent their wife or their child a selfie. I think that, you mow, the government and the president are -- is somebody that's elected by the people for the people and I think that he is showing he's human, and that's just part of his brand and he's always been successful at that.

LEMON: Yes. We have this idea, and maybe it's old school, maybe it no longer should exist, I'm not sure that the president should be this stodgy person that, you know, only does mainstream media, and -- you know, does press conferences from the East Room or the Oval Office. Are those days gone?

JOHN: Well, you know the term -- you know, the presidential term or acting presidential is an evolving term. I think that you have your Roosevelts with the fireside chat who was meeting the people where they were, then you have your President Clinton playing the saxophone, and maybe that's not good enough anymore. Because with the transparency and the market, people know that people are human, and the president is human.

I think he showed a lot of presidential characteristics. I think he showed that he's about family because he's drawing a picture of his wife. He's about sports. He even practices his speeches with simple words like February, when he is one of the elegant speech writers ever to take the stand, so we are seeing that he's human, he practices, and he is one of the people elected by the people.

LEMON: Yes. And as you said, I used to always get this from my teacher at school. It's Feb-ru-ary, right?

So I thought that part was pretty funny. But is this at odds with what he's trying to get accomplished? Should he be doing this when he is asking for war powers? Are the two at odds with each other? Or can he do both at the same time?

JOHN: I think -- I think he could do both, and I think that, you know, pushing his agenda in a very viral way is also gaining a lot of other people who believe in his agenda and believe in what he's doing, and however he will endorse or believe to be our next leaders, and I think that the people he is hitting are going to be our next leaders and decision-makers, so I think he can -- I think it can only help by showing that he is -- he's one of us.

LEMON: If you had a presidential contender, someone who is running for president, would you advice him to do the same sort of thing?

JOHN: I would only advise him to do the same sort of thing if it's natural to them.

LEMON: Yes.

JOHN: I think that when he was elected, he actually had a very young turnout, and he had people revolt within the system because they felt like they had the power, and I think you should only do that if it's natural to you.

LEMON: Yes.

JOHN: So I think that it's -- it comes natural to the president. And he's a cool president. He's hip.

LEMON: Daymond John, thank you. Thank you.

And now I want to bring in CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley and AB Stoddard, the associate editor of "The Hill."

Good evening to both of you.

You know, that's -- that's a good question, Douglas. Who else could do that? I mean, could any other previous president, you think, do that?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: No. I think this is his form. He's ideal for it. We've seen him do similar kind of stunts, if you'd like, for the White House Correspondents Dinner, but every president has their forte. I mean, John F. Kennedy pioneered in how to do the press conference, for example. Jimmy Carter tried to do in 1977 call-ins, people that he would take because talk-radio was suddenly hot, and it totally went sideways on him.

So in this case, I think this works. But it works because it's a bit novel right now to do it on BuzzFeed, February 25th, for the Affordable Care Act is looming. If he does this a lot, it wouldn't be funny and it would start to become tedious and it might work against him. But for a one-offer, I thought this one was fine.

LEMON: Don't overdo it.

So, AB, the "Washington Post's" Fix blog has the headline, "Which Image of Obama Mugging for BuzzFeed's Cameras Diminishes the President the Most?" And it ranked it, and then -- so do you think that this diminishes the presidency, AB?

AB STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE HILL: Well, I mean, parts of it were obviously unrealistic. President Obama, although he's good at doing, you know, hip videos, and they absolutely knew which elements would make it go viral, and that's --if that helps you sell a product then that's what he's doing.

He would never practice a speech in front of a mirror and it would never be dirty, and we all know that. So this is not -- this a master speechgiver, he doesn't practice giving speeches in the mirror. They try to jam in how to up enrollment in the ACA by Sunday, the 15th, into this video in a way that wasn't overt. So that's how -- that was -- that was the technique that they used.

The question is whether or not they tried a whole bunch of things to sell this product, OK, Don. They have done -- they've had Richard Simmons, they've done pub crawls, they've done a lot of goofy stuff. This is the first that President Obama has -- beyond the "between the two ferns" appearance really kind of made himself the center of it.

It was a long video. There were a lot of scenes in it. Like I said, some stuff was goofier than others, but it's not something, as Douglas said, he should do often. The question is on a week like this, this was reportedly filmed the same day that the death -- murder of Kayla Mueller was confirmed. And he is asking the Congress this week for war powers. And ISIS is this ongoing crisis. So is this week -- let alone Ukraine and everything else.

LEMON: The appropriate --

STODDARD: The time to make this type of a video.

LEMON: Yes. Yes. Is there an issue with doing this video and giving them an interview and again, this video follows the interview that they had, giving BuzzFeed that video, and giving him an interview?

BRINKLEY: Well, I think it's just an extra deal out of BuzzFeed, and look, Valentine's Day is here, and in this, it shows him drawing a picture of his wife. I once edited a book by Ronald Reagan where he writes these mash notes to Nancy, and they went over exceedingly well.

I mean, it's important for presidents to humanize themselves. Franklin Roosevelt famously made his dog Fala a symbol where critics were criticizing his dog and did a whole schtick about that. So I think the key here is that it's a holiday weekend. It's exceedingly well. And president Roosevelt would do a whole schtick about his dog when he was being criticized and it is a holiday weekend and everybody is going out, and February 15th is an important day for the Affordable Care Act.

And the president need to push it forward and this is the way he did it and the media hit is getting 14 million, 15 million people perhaps already, it's worked.

LEMON: And we're leading with tonight at 10:00 p.m. on CNN.

BRINKLEY: Yes.

LEMON: So, you know, it's working in some way.

Let's show some other presidents here. Let's show Bill Clinton. We remember Bill Clinton playing the saxophone on the "Arsenio Hall Show" as governor. So people believe that that sort of trail blazed this sort of thing.

I don't know why they say that because remember Richard Nixon in the '70s saying, "sock it to me?" This is not -- this just didn't start with this president, AB? STODDARD: No. And I think that it's true, if you -- if you are

Barack Obama, and you can do this, you can use it to your advantage, and I'm not opposed at all to presidents humanizing themselves. I think he will invite some criticism this week for some of the contents of the video, and it's just -- because it's sort of, you know, a little bit goofy, but also because it might not been this week something to do amidst these crises just to get a few more ACA enrollees by Sunday.

There were other ways you could have done this, there's certainly been many other ways this president has humanized himself very effectively. The photos out of the Oval Office with visitors are unbelievable, and they've released them regularly since he took office for more than six years and I think the public really likes that. I think he should continue to do what works, but the jury is still out on whether or not this video works.

LEMON: I don't see anything wrong with it. At first, you think, BuzzFeed, and then when you actually look at the video, it does humanize him and it's not, you know, it's just good, clean fun. I mean, he's drinking cookies and milk, I mean, how much more -- you don't get more American than that, right? I mean, a lot of people do that. I know our very own Wolf Blitzer likes cookies and milk before he goes to bed, AB?

(LAUGHTER)

STODDARD: Well, I know -- again, it was self-deprecating, and he said, you know, thanks, Obama. He's making fun of himself. I think parts of it were excellent and like I said they knew which parts, which elements would go viral, the music is wonderful. I mean, parts of it are really cute. I'm just saying, that, you know, he's going to be draw attention with something like this from critics about the context of the week. At the same time, maybe the rules of the landscape are gone for presidential conduct.

LEMON: Well, that's what I want to ask you about. How do you -- how do Republicans compete with this in -- you know, with the elections, or the Democrats? How does anyone compete with this?

STODDARD: Well, they're not actually listening to ISIS briefings this week. OK. This is a different -- you know, he is the president, he is not a presidential candidate. That's just one point that I would make.

LEMON: Yes.

I wanted Douglas to weigh in on that as well. Can they -- can they compete with this, Douglas?

BRINKLEY: Well, sure. You just saw a senator win from Iowa castrating hogs as her soundbite and she's in the U.S. Senate now. All rules are off. It's a new media wild frontier out there. And candidates in particular are going to use whatever they can to reach people, BuzzFeed is the newest toy at the moment. The president made good use of it. I think we beat up on Barack Obama when he did the selfie at Nelson

Mandela, his hero's funeral, and he took a lot of heat for that which I thought was an awkward moment. But here you see him taking the selfie and kind of making fun of a culture now where everybody is doing selfies all the time.

So I think he -- they had showed a bit of self-deprecation, it was just said, but also a commoner's touch with it, and -- the truth of it this will all be in the numbers of people that keep looking in on it.

LEMON: Yes. And this will be the next one. Haters going to hate.

YOKO, guys. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

Appreciate it.

Coming up, you have seen the movie, but that's just the beginning of the story. We're live with the very latest on "American Sniper", on the trial there.

And our judges weigh in on the case against the man accused of killing Chris Kyle.

Plus, America's new movie obsession, is it "Fifty Shades of Wrong?" Two women go toe-to-toe. Does it really glamorize violence against women?

And what about this "Sports Illustrated" cover? What does this say about women? We'll talk about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A movie with some pretty hot advance buzz hits theaters tomorrow. "Fifty Shades of Grey" is poised to dominate the box office, after all the novel it's based on sold millions of copies and it stars two young actors who are easy on the eyes as they engage in their, shall we say, torrid on-screen affair.

CNN's Richard Roth gets caught up in the 50 shades moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Grey will see you now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was he like?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was polite.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, I'm Mr. Grey. Mr. Gray hair.

DAKOTA JOHNSON, ACTRESS: Do you have any interest outside of work?

ROTH: No, I'd like to know more about you, Miss Steele, and how women are fantasizing about the movie release of "Fifty Shades of Grey." LYSS STERN, CEO, DIVAMOMS.COM: Everybody that I know cannot can't

wait to see the film.

SERGIO CANDELAS, AMC THEATER: This movie is going to be big. And it's going to be a big deal.

LAINIE GUTTERMAN, MEMYSELFANDBABYI.COM: I even have my panties picked out.

ROTH: Groups of women are going together.

JODI OKUN ALFANO, FIFTY SHADES FAN: Popcorn with the dripping butter, it just gives you the imagine and the sexy part of it all.

CANDELAS: It's just going to be like "Sex in the City."

ROTH: But there's more than sex in "Fifty Shades" the movie.

KIM IBRICEVIC, EVE'S GARDEN: We're expecting a lot of this.

ROTH: The saga of Mr. Grey and Anastasia have also changed perception of S&M in the bedroom.

IBRICEVIC: Now it's going to become much more mainstream. It's going to be like, oh, everyone has a set of nipple clamps at home. And everyone gets tied up and spanked.

ROTH: Most of the women I have pursued -- interviewed over the years disagree.

STERN: Everybody keeps saying this is mommy porn and this is, you know, moms that are horny and whatever it may be. It's not about that for us. For us, for women, for moms, everywhere, it's a love story. That's what I truly believe we all got out of the book.

JAMIE DORNAN, ACTOR: What a pleasant surprise, Miss Steele.

JOHNSON: Just Anna.

GUTTERMAN: He found where she worked.

ROTH (on camera): It's never worked with me. I'm usually getting a restraining order.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTTERMAN: It could be a little stalkerish, if he wasn't somebody you like, but the fact that he showed up there?

DORNAN: Do you stock cable ties?

JOHNSON: Cable ties. Yes, we do.

ROTH: Can I get some help here?

JOHNSON: I can show you, if you want. THE STARK BROTHERS, BEACON HARDWARE: Nobody ever speaks that

breathlessly in a hardware store.

ROTH (voice-over): So who do you bring to see "Fifty Shades"?

GUTTERMAN: My husband might be a tad bit jealous of Christian Grey.

ROTH: Most men want to sit home, waiting for the next year's Super Bowl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No interest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not interested. Just doesn't interest me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the preview, I'm like, man, amazing. I got to see that.

ROTH: May I then recommend this reclining seat I was shown in a Manhattan theater?

(On camera): "Fifty Shades," bring it on.

STERN: Yes. We're reclining -- the girls are reclining here in New York City, those amazing delicious chairs that are comfy and soft, and just really, so fabulous.

ROTH: My name is Mr. Gray, do you have anything for me?

IBRICEVIC: Probably.

ROTH (voice-over): Richard Gray -- Roth, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We're saying we're a little uncomfortable in the studio here right now. Even before most people have seen the movie, "Fifty Shades of Grey" is stirring up a whole lot of controversy.

When we come right back, two women debate the question, does the movie promote abuse?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: "Fifty Shades of Grey" tells a steamy story of Christian Grey, the attractive and seductive billionaire, and Anastasia Steele the young woman he sexually dominates. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORNAN: I don't do romance. My tastes are very singular. You wouldn't understand.

JOHNSON: Enlighten me then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Some people are up in arms about the movie, but does it really glorify violence against women?

Joining me now, two women who disagree. Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Dawn Hawkins is the executive director of the National Center on Sexual Exploitation. She'll join us in just a moment.

So we will start with you, Mel. We know the story, it is a handsome billionaire, he sweeps a young virginal college student to be his sex slave. The movie has angered both the religious right, as well as the Real bondage in S&M community. Why is that?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't know why it's angering the Bondage and S&M community, unless they feel like they're part of a very exclusive club, and they didn't want bondage and this sort of sexual behavior to go mainstream. But you know, I find this whole thing perplexing, Don. She's sold 100 million copies.

I thoroughly enjoyed the terrible writing and the incredibly inspiring tricks that you could bring into your bedroom, and in no way shape or form did I find that this book promotes violence against women, because in domestic violence relationships, there is typically not a written contract nor is there a safe word. And what happens in the end of this book, if you read the series --

LEMON: Don't give it away.

ROBBINS: -- is that she ends up -- well, she ends up being the powerful one.

LEMON: OK.

ROBBINS: He doesn't.

LEMON: Yes.

ROBBINS: And so I just find it -- I find the whole thing perplexing.

LEMON: OK.

ROBBINS: It's almost like remember when "Pretty Woman" came out? Remember that movie with Julia Roberts?

LEMON: "Pretty Woman," yes.

ROBBINS: Yes. And people thought that it glorified prostitution. It didn't make people run out to become prostitutes, and I don't think this is glorifying domestic violence because I don't think it is a book about domestic violence.

LEMON: Dawn, Mel just said it sold 100 million copies worldwide. It became a crazy cultural phenomenon, clearly there is a market for it. So what's the problem? DAWN HAWKINS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE NATIONAL CENTER ON SEXUAL

EXPLOITATION: Well, this really is a book about domestic violence. When you remove the glitz and the glamour, his powerful job and fancy suits, he is completely controlling her. He uses humiliation, coercion, degradation. He -- she doesn't even sign the consent form until the second book. It doesn't even happen in the first -- in the movie. So, I mean, she's not even consenting, she is looking for a love story, a partner, a companion, and he's telling her, if you don't do what I say, you're going to lose me.

LEMON: Wait, wait. How is she not consenting if she's an adult and she's allowing him to do this?

HAWKINS: Well, repeatedly, he says to her that, you have to do what I say or else this relationship isn't going to be work. She is not -- it is not informed consent. She is not aware of this physical and lasting psychological damage that it will cause, and so it's this kind of consent is really a sham.

LEMON: Mel?

ROBBINS: Look. I think in life, you take your own experiences and your own agenda, and you apply them to everything. And if you are committing your life to being an advocate against domestic violence, you will find evidence of that wherever you want to look.

I personally think this is what it is. It's a crappy written book that gave women across the world an escape from their crappy love lives in their bedrooms, and had them open their horizons to a different way to have sexual satisfaction in a consensual relationship, and to try to make this anything more than a poorly written book that hit a kind of open wound in the bedrooms of women across the globe is -- I just think it's a stretch, Don.

HAWKINS: No. The reason so many women have jumped on board is because it shows women that they can fix violent and controlling men if they're just loving and obedient enough, and 25 percent of women are in intimate relationship with partner violence.

I agree with President Obama. He is just said at the Grammys that Hollywood is driving the message of our culture, and right now, Hollywood is telling us that violence should be -- is sexy, and that it's legitimate.

LEMON: Is this, do you -- what's the difference between this? I hear people saying this is once, this maybe porn or just one step away from porn. And now it is in mainstream, and like, people are glorifying the book that is --

HAWKINS: Porn is mainstream, Don.

LEMON: Alright, go ahead.

HAWKINS: Porn is a mainstream and this is a direct result of the porn culture. Pornography today is extremely violent, most of it shows the women tied up and beaten. Men have been getting a regular diet of this for a long time now...

ROBBINS: Not most of it...

HAWKINS: For a long time now, and now we're telling --

ROBBINS: I know -- I think that is -- I think that is also incorrect...

HAWKINS: Now we're telling women to accept that violence.

ROBBINS: I don't know what the kind of porn you are watching.

LEMON: One at a time, one at a time.

HAWKINS: Now we're telling women to accept the violence in pornography, to try it in their own relationship. We're gonna see significant increase in sexual violence, domestic violence relationships, for a long time to come. We will continue this to --

LEMON: OK. Mel, go ahead. ROBBINS: That is absolutely ridiculous to say that a poorly written

book, and a lame movie that is tame in terms of showing the sexuality and the sexual scenes that somehow gonna promote violence...

LEMON: OK.

ROBBINS: But nobody is talking about is the fact that the real reason why this woman is attracted to this dude is because he has a helicopter, he has a penthouse and because --

LEMON: And he's got a big wallet...

ROBBINS: She loves that kind of lifestyle.

LEMON: He's got a lot of money. OK, so listen...

HAWKINS: That's only the reason --

LEMON: Speaking of -- speaking of your -- you're talking about poorly written, you've mentioned that a number of times. So maybe there should have been picture. So, let's look at this picture, right? This is the new Sports Illustrated Cover. And Dawn, what do you think? I mean, it's a little low, there's not a lot there. What do you think about this cover? Is this exploitation?

HAWKINS: Well, it's very much exploitation, I have to focus on the genital area. Just asking about it at the model said, this -- we, you know her -- the best day. It's a sad day when, we're teaching young girls that they have to be porn stars in order to have the most satisfaction in their life.

LEMON: Mel?

ROBBINS: I've already bought the issue and flipped through it and done my bathing suit shopping and handed it to my husband, I don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating women's bodies -- LEMON: No.

ROBBINS: And I love the fact that -

LEMON: No, no. Hang on, hang on Dawn.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on, Dawn. Hang on.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on both of you. Take the picture up. Put the picture up.

ROBBINS: I love the portrait illustrated. What?

LEMON: Put the picture up.

ROBBINS: What? So what? So She's putting a --

LEMON: A half of inch, not even -- would be --

ROBBINS: Always. (ph)

LEMON: It would be penthouse.

HAWKINS: No, I compare this to Hustler, to Playboy...

ROBBINS: She's got fresh waxed, we're not seeing anything that is --

HAWKINS: It is so much more --

LEMON: One at a time, Mel first.

ROBBINS: I said she -- she's completely waxed, we're not seeing anything that is objectionable, for crying out loud, you see this sort of thing on the cover of Cosmopolitan. You see naked people on the cover of Vanity Fair, we expect it every February. I don't have a problem with it...

HAWKINS: It is something we shouldn't --

ROBBINS: If you don't like it, don't buy it.

LEMON: Dawn?

HAWKINS: We should not have -- we shouldn't expect this. We shouldn't put up with the objectification of women. And this is not that eye level...

ROBBINS: Don't buy it.

HAWKINS: Of every 10-year-old. People are forced to see this, 10-year- old boys are forced to see this.

LEMON: Yeah. So, might a thing is listen... ROBBINS: Yeah, and so are 10-year-old girls.

LEMON: Mel, I'm not approve --

ROBBINS: Yes.

LEMON: Mel, I'm not approve by any means. And if you -- if you are an adult, you wanna buy pornography. You want to get a magazine, then you should be able to, but this is sold. You know, we bought this at the drugstore across the street, and there kids who can see it. Listen, I have nothing against this, but if you're gonna -- this is almost like adult, this is like an adult magazine that should not be sold in the stores where kids can be seen.

ROBBINS: You don't actually believe that?

LEMON: I do believe that.

ROBBINS: that's not true.

HAWKINS: And the cover?

LEMON: I actually --

HAWKINS: The cover? LEMON: No, and you know me, I'm not approve. When I saw this, I was

shocked. I thought it was a porno magazine in the -- in the drugstore, I really did.

ROBBINS: Yeah, then what you do is you talk to your kids about it. So I got a 15-year old and a 14-year-old daughters and, you know you say, you -- show them the cover and you say, look, don't do that to your bathing suit. What do you think? Just use the words to describe what you think about how this woman is behaving.

LEMON: Yeah.

ROBBINS: And talk to them about it, but this is a magazine for adults, Don, and again, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

LEMON: Yeah.

ROBBINS: I actually think these women look beautiful. I love the bathing suits that they pick, and I look forward it to every February and I buy it for my husband, how's that?

LEMON: That's not -- well, that's good -- goon on you. That's something, they are beautiful. I'm not taking anything away from their beauty, but it's -- you know. Thank you, ladies. Appreciated.

ROBBINS: It's what?

LEMON: Nothing, I've said my piece. Thank you very much. See you next time. The other box office obsession tonight, American Sniper, but what happened to the real Chris Kyle is more shocking than anything on this film rely with the latest on the true crime trial, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: More revelations today in the American Sniper trial, testimony that Chris Kyle and his friend Chad Littlefield may never have known what hit them. CNN's Martin Savidge joins me now with more on this. So day 2 of testimony, who did the jury hear from, Martin?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Well, first -- was the crime scene investigator, and the really intriguing thing about what the person had to say was the fact that it was discovered. That both Chris Kyle and his best friend Chad Littlefield, both of them had fully loaded semi-automatic pistols that were tucked in a holster in their waistband and yet, the safety was still on them. So, what they're clearly try to demonstrate here and this is the prosecution, that whatever happened that whatever the suspect did, he did it so quickly that he was able to kill both men before they could even reach the gun that was right at their side.

LEMON: What -- and what is the medical examiner's testimony, tell the jury about the injuries to both Chris Kyle and to Chad Littlefield.

SAVIDGE: Well again, the medical examiner said, by describing the wounds that they were so severe, that both men died not quite instantly, but very, very quickly. For instance, Chad Kyle was shot six times, and at least three of those bullets, any one of them would have killed him. And then his are friend was shot seven times and again, three of those shots there would have easily killed him. He finished by saying that neither man could have survived the wounds that they suffered from Eddie Routh.

LEMON: And it's important too, Martin, to know what happened after the shooting, what Eddie Routh did.

SAVIDGE: Right. This is very important, because as you remember, the defense is saying he was insane, he didn't know what he was doing. Well, the prosecution is saying, "Oh, he knew full well what he was doing." For instance, he fled in Chris Kyle's pickup truck, and then stopped to have a meal, a couple of hours later, went through a drive- through, bought two burritos. And eventually, police caught up to them and they have figured out by that point that Eddie Routh was like the suspect in this double homicide. They tried to get him to surrender. Instead, he took off on a high-speed chase, they showed that video in court, it was quite traumatic, especially one -- one police car ram that pickup truck. It didn't stop at then, but apparently the damage was done a couple of miles down the road, it quit and that's when police were able to take him into custody.

LEMON: Martin Savidge. Martin, thank you very much. I want to bring in now, our judges. Alex Ferrer is a former police officer and a former Florida circuit court judge and the host of television's Judge Alex. And Belvin Perry presided over the case, the Anthony trial, thank you, gentlemen. Welcome back to both of you. Judge Alex first, I am struck judge by the injury to Chris and Chad. Six gunshots to Chris, seven to Chad, mostly in the back, both Chris and Chad had their own weapons in their waistbands and they were unable to use them. What does it tell you about -- about what happened and what more do you want to know? JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, JUDGE ALEX: Well, one of the things that tell me is that the prosecution has got another arrow in the quiver to just prove insanity. Because clearly, he waited until both men had shoot all of the ammunition that was in the pistols they were shooting these western-style pistols. When those were empty, both of the men were shot and killed. The other thing that it, what it raises is part as the question for me, and that point -- that point of him waiting to that time, kind of -- it suggests somebody who is really of a lucid mind and cold and calculated plan here. The other thing -- the question that it raises in my mind is, exactly how did he kill both of them without one of them charging him, because that's a lot of round to fire, six in the one person, seven into the other. I -- I'm wondering if he either had a gun in each hand or if he shot two rounds into one victim and two rounds into another victim and then went back and finish the job, and I'm not sure whether we're gonna know the answer to that or not. I -- I suppose that we will have to wait for the ballistics comes out and tells us what they are all the same bullets in each individual or whether there's a mix of bullets in both of the victims.

LEMON: The pistols being empty, Judge Perry, what is that say to you? Is that premeditated?

FERRER: Well -- this is, this is --

LEMON: Judge Perry.

FERRER: I'm sorry. BELVIN PERRY, FORMER CHIEF JUDGE IN THE FLORIDA'S NINTH JUDICIAL

CIRCUIT: It's certainly shows premeditation. But -- but it also shows as Judge Alex said that the -- he laid and wait until he could get drop on them. Then -- depending on the series of shots, he could have went from one to the next, because they were incapacitated with that .45 caliber shots in the area they were shot.

LEMON: After the shootings Judge Perry, Routh fled the scene. There was a police chase -- chase, a very traumatic police chase and standoff. A body camera recorded Routh talking about Satan, saying that he had taken a couple of souls, and stating that, "I don't know if I'm going insane or not" how will the jury interpret that?

PERRY: Well first of all, the -- statement that he had taken the couple of souls, and that he had some more to take -- clearly, indicates that he is admitting that he killed them. Now, the psychiatrists or psychologists that were view this will -- were a view in a different lens. Some might conclude that there's evidence that he may be delusional, by using the word soul, or another psychiatrist or psychiatrist may say, that's evidence that he's not insane. So, it is really gonna depend on how they view that particular piece of evidence, those statements.

LEMON: Judge Alex, Routh also went to Taco Bell after shooting. He bought -- after the shooting, he bought two bean burritos -- to go for a meal after you just killed two people. How does the jury perceive that? FERRER: Well, again. You know, I think that -- the argument

prosecution is gonna make is, look at -- look at his -- his thinking. He's not so disoriented that he thinks these guys are gonna, a threat to him, he shoots and in the back kills them, but he can't order dinner. I mean, he clearly goes and order his dinner. The more damning evidence that take for him is fleeing the police. You know, Texas follows the McNaughton rule right down the line. And the McNaughton rule says, a person can be deemed insane and not culpable for criminal act if they suffer from a disease and or defect, and as a result of that disease are defect, they cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. Well, fleeing the police is a clear indication that you know you did something wrong. So that's gonna be used against them as well. The defense of course will raise those statements and say, "Oh, see, he's insane." But, mental illness which -- he may very well have, mental illness is not legal insanity. And the jurors hate to discharged people under the -- not guilty by reason insanity, because they frankly know that they end up back in -- public.

LEMON: The expert testimony, Judge Perry, is always, always interesting and I'm sure you want to hear the expert testimony in this one. It's gonna be explosive, I'm sure.

FERRER: Absolutely.

LEMON: Judge Perry? PERRY: It is gonna be very explosive. It's gonna be interesting here,

how these particular experts view the conduct. Some may view it in the sense of flight that, you gonna have a few that say he was under a psychosis but, if you are look carefully at the video, he gets out of the car, he follows the officer's commands to get down and he -- he lies down on the street. So, it's gonna be interested to see how they weave this into saying that he was in a psychosis -- hours ago.

LEMON: Alright, Judges. Thank you. See you soon.

FERRER: Thank you, Don.

PERRY: Thank you.

LEMON: The FBI director speaks out on police and race in America. Will his comments help to heal the wounds between police departments and communities of color? We're gonna talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hope you caught this today, the director of the FBI speaking out today on police and race. I want to talk about that with Jeffrey Toobin, CNN's senior legal analyst and Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avvo.com and a civil rights lawyer at the Bloom Firm. Hello, again to you Jeffrey, you were on the television earlier. I want to talk about that. But let's -- let's talk about what he said. Federal prosecutors are charging one individual with arson at the Ferguson market. This happened during the protests and the riots at the store businesses after the Michael Brown grand jury decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson. What do you make of this before we talk about Comey? JEFFERY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this was really a

monstrous crime. I mean, what -- what these folks did to the businesspeople, what they did to the community, the danger that they put individuals in, I think that it's very good that people are being prosecuted, we'll see if they are guilty, obviously down the line. But these were serious crimes, very separate from the legitimate protests that went on in Ferguson.

LEMON: You said this is where we -- one reason we do -- we have the FBI, right?

TUBIN: Absolutely.

LEMON: Yeah.

TUBIN: I mean -- these are dangerous crimes, and they should be investigated and prosecuted.

LEMON: We heard from FBI director James Comey on the sensitive issue of police and race relations. We'll take listen and then we'll talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: After years of police work, officers often can't help but be influenced by the cynicism they feel. A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible and maybe irrational by sunlight. The two young black men on one side of the street look like so many others that officer has locked up. To white men on the other side of the street, even in the same clothes, do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What do you think of his -- his statements, Lisa?

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Well, I was really appalled by that particular comment. I will say that overall, I feel like he's trying to do the right thing, trying to have a conversation about race. But to say that racial profiling is maybe even rational, it's not rational, it's offensive, it's unconstitutional. And one quick example in New York where massive and millions of data -- pieces of data where compiled about racial profiling. It turns out that while blacks and young Hispanics are often stopped by police, they're very rarely, actually guilty of any crime. And whites, when they were stopped were more likely to be carrying contraband, drugs or weapons so, I mean, it's time to just turn the page on the racial profiling. I think -- and stop making excuses for it.

LEMON: I did -- did you think that he was making excuses for racial profiling, Jeffrey? I kind of got the opposite from that.

TOOBIN: No, I did -- I don't think I -- he was trying to do that. I -- I have a different complaint about the speech. But, I also agree that I think it was well intentioned. I think he was trying to address some longstanding problems but, you know, this business of calling for a national conversation about race just strikes me as, you know, we have heard these national conversations, and calls for the national conversations before. I'm much more interested in the specifics of what we can do about these problems, and I think he had some modest suggestions about -- improving recordkeeping, we really don't know how many people are shot by the police every year. Obviously, we should know that. He talked about the body cameras but, I didn't think that it was a defensive racial profiling...

LEMON: But he -- at the top of his speech he says, after what happened in Ferguson, and he mentioned Michael Brown and they talked about Eric Garner and the recent protest he says, "We have not had a productive discussion about race, no one seems to be listening" And I -- I mean, I have to applaud him for that, I have to agree with him. No one could is seems (ph) to listen.

TOOBIN: Why? What does that mean? What should they be saying?

LEMON: Because none is -- everyone his is -- has gone into their corners. And they're only hearing from their one side, and they're giving no credence to the other side. It's about, when you're having a conversation and you want to change things, it's about listening. You have to listen, even if you find the other person wrong, it's still about getting in the room or getting on television or doing whatever, and actually discussing it. That is not -- I don't that --

BLOOM: Well Don, you know, I think that's healthy, and I think we can have a conversation, and we can also have action. There's a mountain of data that says us that our criminal justice system is driven with racial bias from where the police focus their attention, predominantly poor neighborhoods, poor African-American neighborhoods, to arrest, to convictions, to sentencing...

LEMON: That's all true and he's missing that.

BLOOM: That should have to amount of racial bias.

LEMON: He mentioned that today.

BLOOM: Somebody like the head of the FBI can actually do something about it, besides having a conversation. I think that's the frustration.

LEMON: Yeah, but I don't think the gist of what he said is just to have a conversation, I think that's one part of the it, Jeffrey, do you disagree?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, who can object to a conversation? It -- it's strikes me as, you know, harmless, but also sort of meaningless. You know, I think the specifics of the issues Lisa's are -- Lisa is talking about. I mean just for example, let's talk about marijuana. Let's talk about how many African-Americans...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Are arrested for marijuana arrest.

LEMON: Yeah.

TOOBIN: Are for marijuana, and white people are not in similar or comparable numbers. I think those are the sorts of specifics...

LEMON: Yeah.

TOOBIN: That we can address and the conversation thing means relatively nothing.

LEMON: All very good points and I'll see you here, soon. Thank you, Lisa...

TOOBIN: Alright.

LEMON: Thank you, Jeffrey. We have Breaking News report to you tonight. A week of turmoil in media, now this, New York Times Columnist David Carr, has died at the age of 58. He collapsed at the office today after a battle with pneumonia. Carr wrote about media for the past 25 years, he joins The New York Times in 2002, writing a column in the Monday business section, and he appeared right here on this network last night on AC360. Was Times' colleagues -- colleague Nicholas Kristof tweeted this, he said, "David Carr collapsed in the newsroom, he loved doing what he loved, surrounded by those who loved him. R.I.P., Rest in Peace." David Carr survived by his wife Jill Rooney Carr, their daughter Maddie and twin daughters Erin and Meagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)