Return to Transcripts main page
Don Lemon Tonight
Hillary Clinton Addresses Union Workers in Las Vegas; Democratic Debate Preview; A Look at the Site of the Debate; Las Vegas Mayor Interviewed. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 12, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:04] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Hello, everyone. It's 10 p.m. on the East Coast, 7 p.m. here in Las Vegas. This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
We're going to begin with some breaking news. As she arrives in town for tomorrow's big debate, Hillary Clinton makes a surprise visit to a union rally right outside Donald Trump's Las Vegas hotel, and has some tough talk for the republican front-runner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That if you are going to run for president, then you should represent all the people of the United States and that includes hard working people, and you should not stand in the way of the right to organize because that's what built the middle class of America.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That, with just hours to go until the first democratic debate. And the stakes could not be any higher.
A senior Clinton aid tells CNN she sees this debate as her chance to put her e-mail troubles behind her and focus on the issues that she finds important. And we have learned that Bill Clinton is also in Las Vegas tonight.
I want to bring in CNN's Brianna Keilar and Nia-Malika Henderson who have a lot of knowledge about this. Brianna, I'm going to start with you.
You know, it's the night before this first democratic debate. She chose to take a swipe at Donald Trump right off, you know, her rival, her top -- well, it's not a rival here at the debate, but it's one of her rivals in the campaign. Is this what we are going to -- we should see tomorrow?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think you're going to see her playing a bit of a general election game, but I also think this visit today to the Trump Hotel was her way of saying, I am in town and I am here for this debate.
Because for Hillary Clinton, as we've been reporting, she sees this as a chance to reset. She wants to talk about substance. She wants to connect with voters in a way that the e-mail controversy hasn't really allowed her to do.
So, she's obviously been doing her prep, she's been working with a team of litigators who know a thing or two about asking and answering questions, right?
LEMON: Yes.
KEILAR: So, she's been working with some lawyers who they have a lot of experience in debate prep. But she really needs to get people interested. And that Trump visit is about rallying the base, saying I'm in Las Vegas, there's a big debate tomorrow. I want you to tune in because she really wants to seize this moment.
LEMON: Getting attention and getting people to notice.
KEILAR: That's right.
LEMON: And you know, the Culinary Workers Union, 55,000 members.
KEILAR: That's right.
LEMON: She is putting herself on the side of the unions. Is that a savory move in a union town like this?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Oh, yes indeed. In this town, and I think the TPP flip-flop as it were, that was what that was all about. Getting on the side of unions shortly after she came out against that.
You heard from big unions, basically appraising her decision. So, this was definitely about Hillary Clinton saying, I'm with unions, I'm a progressive, I can play on the same stage with Bernie Sanders in terms of these issues.
LEMON: She is a prolific tweeter. And so, she's talking about this issue because she says, you know, Donald Trump should be on the side of workers. Is she taunting him?
HENDERSON: Is she taunting Donald Trump?
LEMON: Yes.
HENDERSON: I think in some ways, yes. Because it's sort of fun. I think some of her best lines have been about Donald Trump and if you attack Donald Trump, it sort of makes news.
LEMON: And he is taunting her? Because she's a prolific tweeter, as well, Brianna.
KEILAR: Yes. Well, I think she is I don't know if it's so much that she is taunting him, perhaps, but I think she is really just trying to grab the attention of her supporters.
HENDERSON: Yes.
KEILAR: I don't mean to say she's not taunting them and she's sort of teasing them, right?
LEMON: Right.
KEILAR: And then when it comes to unions, this is part of her play book from 2007, 2008. This is all important for her, for winning Nevada, and that's part of the strategy here.
LEMON: Yes. So, Brianna and I have known each other for a long time. When I saw her, I said, Brianna, you seem a little, you know, you're not yourself. You say, hey, hey, you've been covering and she goes, Don -- but since you have been covering this campaign, how is she preparing?
KEILAR: She is preparing in earnest. And I describe sort of this full on mock debate approach that she's been taking. Certainly she was down after Thursday. She was actually busy last week, Monday through Thursday, and then she had Friday, Saturday, Sunday to really prepare.
But that's not where it all started. She has been doing this for months, Don. Really, I would say about a month, really from most of September. So, this is something that she's been tackling, doing the research, you know, doing that homework that she needs to do to certainly be on top of not just her positions, but what her opponent's positions are, and then in earnest she's been going through these mock debate situations. These lawyers that I told you about, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
KEILAR: One of them has been playing Bernie Sanders, one has been playing Martin O'Malley. So, she's been really kind of it's like method acting, right?
HENDERSON: Yes.
LEMON: yes. But she has, what, like, 25 debates under, I mean, you know.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: Yes, for sure...
KEILAR: But it has been a long time and you can't underestimate that. I mean, by this point in the 2000 -- in 2007...
LEMON: Yes.
KEILAR: ... there had been nine democratic debates.
LEMON: Oh, my, gosh.
KEILAR: That's a lot of reps, right? HENDERSON: Yes.
KEILAR: It's almost sort of a muscle memory thing. This is the first one and there aren't going to be that many, so that preparation matters even more.
[22:05:05] HENDERSON: And Bernie Sanders is no slouch when it comes to debating. Here is a guy who first ran for office in 1972. He's been in dozens and dozens of constant and debate...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But he's preparing or he feel like, hey, I've got this.
HENDERSON: But they're sort of, you know, they're kind of saying, no, you know, he's got this, he's doing sort of exchanges. There is no Hillary Clinton person who is playing Hillary Clinton, but he's practicing exchanges and I think his main goal is to come across as a credible president.
LEMON: This is...
KEILAR: You also know that there's this expectations management, no, guys are not prepared.
HENDERSON: Yes, exactly.
KEILAR: So, I mean, I actually...
HENDERSON: I'm actually good at this.
KEILAR: ... I do think part of his approach is this kind of shoot from the hip thing.
HENDERSON: Yes.
KEILAR: But I also think they're trying not to say, well, he is really just -- he should be hitting it out of the park.
HENDERSON: Yes. It's like the college student who says, oh, I haven't prepared for the test.
KEILAR: That's right.
LEMON: He's the insurgent, but she is leading in the polls. I mean, she is leading here. Let's put up this CNN/ORC poll quickly. Clinton is winning in two big states. In Nevada, she comes out on top, 58 percent of likely democratic voters. Bernie Sanders, 36 percent. I mean, they have to be happy with that guy.
HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, those South Carolina numbers, too. I mean, she wanted to do well with African-American voters and Latino voters to have that firewall. And it looks like she's got one, and Bernie Sanders so far doesn't have an answer for it.
LEMON: And South Carolina, there it is on screen. South Carolina, Clinton, 70 percent.
HENDERSON: Yes.
LEMON: Sanders, 20 points.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: Fifty points.
LEMON: Oh, my, gosh, right.
HENDERSON: Yes, it's insane.
LEMON: I can't wait until tomorrow night.
HENDERSON: Yes.
KEILAR: Oh, it's going to be great.
LEMON: I am so -- yes. I'm really excited about it.
KEILAR: Yes, we got to get some sleep first.
LEMON: We got to -- yes. Well, don't count on that, right? We'll see you just a little bit later.
HENDERSON: Right.
KEILAR: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much, Brianna. Thank you, Nia.
Donald Trump not exactly taking off -- taking some time off on the eve of the democratic debate. CNN's Sara Murphy is in New Hampshire for us where Trump grabbed the spotlight today at the no labels convention.
Good evening to you, Sara. You've been on the trail with Donald Trump at the no labels convention today. As usual, there were some fireworks. So, what happened?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, this is not the usual Donald Trump event. He did not have thousands of adoring fans waiting for him. He got kind of the more grizzled New Hampshire voter, the people who take this obligation of picking candidates very seriously and a number of them were very skeptical. Including one woman who had questions about how Trump would treat women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to get paid the same as a man and I think you understand that. So, if you become president, will a woman make the same as a man and do I get to choose what I do with my body?
(APPLAUSE)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're going to make the same if you do as good a job. You're going to make the same if you do as good a job and I happen to be pro-life. OK? I'm pro-life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, Trump has said over and over again, he will be great for women. But you can see by the questions that he got today that there still is a little bit of skepticism out there, a little bit of mistrust, particularly with some of the younger female voters.
And this was an undecided voting population, Don, so these are the people that he really needs to win over if he hopes to move his candidacy beyond the republican primaries into the general election.
LEMON: Sara, you are so kind not to correct my. I called you Sara Murphy. I know that, we all need some sleep here.
MURRAY: It happens.
LEMON: But, you know, the republican front-runner was also asked about tomorrow's democratic debate. What did he say?
MURRAY: So, he is going to tune into the debate because who would miss it, even Donald Trump can't help. But check out his democratic opponent. But he said he's not rooting for anyone in particular. He thinks that he would be happy to go up against any of the democrats in this field in a general election.
Now, Don, he did say he does not think this is going to be as exciting as the republican debates because, of course, he's not going to be on stage. So, you know, the usual modest, humble Donald Trump that we're used to seeing.
LEMON: That is shocking coming from Donald Trump. Sara Murray, thank you very much.
MURRAY: Shocking.
LEMON: We'll see you a little bit later on in our coverage here.
MURRAY: Thanks.
LEMON: Until it shocking. Now, I want to bring in a man who knows exactly what it takes to win a debate. And that's none other than David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to President Obama and CNN's senior political commentator. So, the republican debate. Welcome.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.
LEMON: The republican debate, it helped to lift Donald Trump, of course. He didn't need much now he's already at the top. Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina in the polls. Do you think that's going to do that with any candidate in this democratic debate?
AXELROD: It's a more difficult proposition for most of these candidates because Hillary Clinton is occupying so much space and Bernie Sanders has filled so much space that it's hard to see this debate altering that much. The one guy who is really, I think, under great pressure is Martin
O'Malley who started off the year as the guy who was going to be the alternative to Hillary Clinton and he's been completely eclipsed by Bernie Sanders. So, this debate is very important to him if he wants to continue in a race in which he's barely registering.
LEMON: Let's talk about what each of those candidates are going to have to do to have a stand out moment, right, to win or at least have a stand out moment. I think Hillary Clinton probably started before the debate going over to the Trump Hotel and siding with the union workers and, you know, having some harsh words for Donald Trump.
[22:10:02] AXELROD: Yes. I agree with that. Look, I said in the piece that I wrote for cnn.com this morning, that she, the demand for she's a proficient debater. She'll be well schooled, she's fluent, she's firm, she delivers her lines crisply. The question is, can she get people to believe, do they believe and understand what it is that she's fighting for?
LEMON: You call it reason to believe. That's the name of your thing. So, you need -- what is that, do you think she's coming off as unbelievable?
AXELROD: I think she's had an authenticity problem in this race. She's made a bunch of switches in positions lately in order to get in line with the tenor of the times within the party, and now she has to tell a larger story. So, it's not just about tactics, but about where she wants to lead the country. She has to tell it in a way that people believe.
LEMON: Yes. So, let's talk about, we saw the strong polling numbers that she had in Nevada and also in South Carolina. I don't know if we can have them, we can put those back. I mean, in South Carolina I think she was ahead like 50 points, right?
AXELROD: No, I think she's in strong seat.
LEMON: In Nevada, she's very strong, as well. So, those first two contests, which will be Iowa and New Hampshire, what happens if she loses those? Are they still bellwether?
AXELROD: I think she can survive that. I actually think she is the favorite to win the Iowa caucuses because the Iowa caucuses are an organizational affair. It's great to stir enthusiasm. You have to have that.
But we started with Barack Obama, the march before the Iowa caucuses and if we hadn't done that, I'm not sure we would have won. She's doing that hard organizing, Bernie Sanders is trying to catch up. The other candidates are trying to catch up.
LEMON: Are you reading ahead in the study book? Because that's where I was going to ask you. For Bernie Sanders tomorrow, because he's getting huge crowds, bashing Wall Street, talking about money in politics, income inequality is a big thing for him. What is his biggest challenge tomorrow night? AXELROD: I think to show -- first of all, he has to -- a lot of
democrats haven't heard his message yet. So, this is a good opportunity for him. But he also tends to talk about class, he talks about large concepts, but he doesn't often invoke people.
And it would be good for Bernie Sanders to inject that humanity into his presentation tomorrow night. It will add a dimension that I think people want to see.
LEMON: So, unlike the other side, which, you know, I don't know about drama, if that plays well for a debate. Because the other side, I mean, there was lots of drama. Everybody is, you know, civility is really, you know, not at the top of many people's minds on the republican side.
AXELROD: Yes.
LEMON: But Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders for some reason have chosen not to attack each other. Will that still stand tomorrow night?
AXELROD: Well, look, you have a debate where those two are actually quite popular with democrats. Hillary Clinton for her problems in general election polls, is very, very popular among democrats.
And so, the other candidates are leery of attacking frontally in this debate. Because they're attacking a popular figure within the party. So, it makes it a trickier -- a trickier assignment for the other candidates.
LEMON: You talked about Martin O'Malley. You said you think the biggest challenge to Martin O'Malley. But then we also have and if can play this up on and it says, we also have Jim Webb up on the stage.
AXELROD: Yes.
LEMON: So, what do you think, what can be expect from them. Because you think O'Malley is going to come out swinging, what about the other two guys?
AXELROD: Jim Webb has a distinctive message. You know, he is the tribune and he wasn't in Virginia of the, sort of, alienated white working class man. He is a populist. And on foreign policy, he was the Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan. He's got -- he's very fluent on foreign policy. He opposed the Iraq war. He could challenge, but in a softer -- softer way some of Hillary Clinton's views on foreign policy.
LEMON: We have seen some developments of late in the Hillary e-mail scandal. Do you think that e-mail controversy is going to play into -- is it going to hurt her in this debate?
AXELROD: I think if there are questions about it, it's likely to come from the questioners not from the panelists. I don't think that there is as big of an appetite for this issue among democrats.
This is largely something that stirs up republicans and the republicans leaning independents. So, I don't think it's going to be much of an issue in this debate. I think it's more likely that someone will try and score points by going after the Benghazi committee for politicizing the issue.
LEMON: But you do think that -- I don't know if this even resonates with democrats because or -- do you think that democrats have some concerns if she needs to do something to put their minds at ease? Or do you think most democrats see this is a part of strategy?
AXELROD: I think she has to have a good, crisp answer. Because with democrats fears that this will bleed into a general election and will harm her candidacy. So, she needs to reassure them.
I think the big event is going to be October 22nd when she faces that panel, that Benghazi panel, and there I think she's going to deal with that front and center.
LEMON: David Axelrod, it's great information. Good to have you here.
AXELROD: Good to be with you.
LEMON: Thank you for standing by. You'll never know when you're going to be on. You could on in five -- two minutes, you could be on in two hours.
AXELROD: OK.
LEMON: Thank you. See you soon, sir. When we come right back here on CNN, the Clinton camp sees this debate as a chance for the candidate to put her e-mail troubles behind her, which might be easier said than done, of course.
But first, if you have a question for the candidates, you can post it on Facebook or Instagram. I'm going to be in the main hall tomorrow asking your questions and then I'll be in the Facebook lounge before and after the debate to answer your questions or to ask your questions to the candidates, I should say.
[22:15:03] And here is a provocative one from someone we talked to earlier. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I've already done -- felonies, if I've already done my time for my crime, it's been a few years, how come I cannot vote? I'm a U.S. citizen, how come my rights are taken away from me for the rest of my life?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Boy, it certainly does look beautiful, but it was really hot today. It's great now. We're back now live in Las Vegas and we're counting down to the first democratic debate of this campaign, just hours away, right here on CNN. And with me now is CNN anchor and political commentator Michael Smerconish, and CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and republican strategist, Mr. Kevin Madden who has worked for Mitt Romney's campaign, among others.
Let's talk about Hillary Clinton going over to the Trump Hotel today and siding with union workers. I'll start with you, Michael. Did you tweet about this?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR & POLITICAL REPORTER: I did.
LEMON: Yes.
SMERCONISH: I thought, first of all, I'm sure he's elated tonight. It gives him something to do all night with his twitter account.
[22:20:00] But I get why she would do it. You know, she wants Donald Trump to be the face of the Republican Party. She could only hope that he would continue to be successful and would still be standing if and when she should capture the democratic nomination.
LEMON: Because?
SMERCONISH: Because I'm sure she could beat him.
LEMON: Yes. Gloria.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: yes.
LEMON: I mean, we were trying to figure out who was going to, you know, take the first hit tomorrow. Hillary Clinton got in, did she get herself in before?
BORGER: Yes. But she's attacking Donald Trump. I mean, they're not going to go after each other and punch each other like we saw at the republican debate. They're not going to attack Hillary Clinton on her e-mails.
LEMON: What do you make of the Trump thing, though?
BORGER: Of her doing that?
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: I thought it was a great political theater, sure, why not do it, right? It's the Trump Hotel, union workers, good to use against Bernie Sanders, for example. Sure, why not do it?
LEMON: Kevin?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, that kind of event is why republicans like me really worry about Donald Trump taking over the republican nomination. Hillary Clinton uses it to rally her base, and at the same time remind folks about why Donald Trump is unelectable as a -- in the general election and a bad face for the Republican Party. LEMON: All right. Let's get to the issues, OK? Ms. Borger, let's talk
about the e-mails. Is that going to weigh her down tomorrow night do you think?
BORGER: Yes. I don't think so. I think the only people who are going to ask about it is probably CNN. Because if she's very popular in the Democratic Party, her trust number in the Democratic Party is 68 percent, OK?
So, it's an issue for her in the general election, but not in the primary. And so, I think she may get asked about the e-mails. I have no inside information. But I don't think the other candidates really want to dwell on it.
Other than as an issue of if one of the more minor candidates wants to sort of use it as an issue of trust, for example. They might in order to strike a blow, but I don't see Bernie Sanders using it at all.
LEMON: But also, listen, and I have no inside information. I don't have the questions yet. And they are -- voters are asking questions around the country via Facebook.
BORGER: Right.
LEMON: It may come up in one of those questions, as well.
BORGER: Sure. She's prepared, I mean, she's prepared.
LEMON: But the RNC, Michael, they are doing their best to keep these e-mails front and center. Here's -- this is a new RNC ad. Let's look at it and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I did not e-mail any classified material to anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A federal government watchdog has determined there was classified information.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did, in fact, contain classified information.
Total lack of accountability. It's like my problems have nothing to do with me. They have to do with the republicans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're playing it off as if it's a partisan witch hunt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now you have the FBI, the New York Times chasing this story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those are plans representing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are not bipartisan organizations.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think the American public is that stupid?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Politics as usual?
SMERCONICH: She's drawn a lot of fire, but not from any of the four individuals who will be on that stage with her tomorrow night. She's drawn fire from the RNC and from republicans.
And by the way, very effectively, Don, because, you know, these distrust numbers are really high. Yes, there's a high approval with the Democratic Party, but she's got some issues.
BORGER: Yes.
SMERCONISH: And I think this is the RNC wanting to make sure that they cement that perception. Keep in mind the fact that by this point in the '08 cycle, there had been 13 face-to-face confrontations among democrats. This is the first, so this is a reset tomorrow night. And the RNC wants you to remember that as you're watching the debate.
LEMON: In case you we were wondering, this is not Kurt McKinney, we're actually outside right on the strip in Las Vegas.
BORGER: We are.
LEMON: Business as usual going on here. Kevin, the president was on 60 Minutes last night and here is what he said about the e-mails to Steve Kroft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: It poses a national security problem. I think it was a mistake that she's acknowledged and, you know, as a general proposition, when we're in these offices, we have to be more sensitive and stay as far away from the line as possible when it comes to how we handle information, how we handle our own personal data and, you know, she made a mistake.
She's acknowledged it. I do think that the way it's been ginned up is, in part, because of politics, and I think she would be the first to acknowledge that, you know, maybe she could have handled the original decision better and the disclosures more quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Kevin, I'm pretty sure you saw the interview with Fareed Zakaria where Bill Clinton said they she just wanted to have it as mangled up as possible. Even if that's true, if it's politics, it still strikes a chord. They're talking about it on 60 Minutes. We're talking about it here. It might come up in a debate.
MADDEN: Yes. And usually when somebody is -- a candidate is decrying the politics, they're usually losing that politics. Michael eludes to this earlier, the reason that the RNC is using this, the reason that so many of the other campaigns feel they want to draw a contrast on it is because it works. Presidential campaigns are pretty important in this regard where the
issue of trustworthiness and whether or not somebody can trust their president or whether or not they think they're above the law.
[22:25:03] Those questions really go to the heart of a candidate's character and character is a really important consideration for voters.
And, look, this is never going to end it. The e-mails are always going to be a part of the equation. Particularly as republicans look to draw those contrast with Hillary Clinton throughout this entire campaign.
LEMON: I have to ask about the republican staff who told Jake Tapper on -- and the farmer intelligence on State of the Union that this was purely about politics, this Benghazi committee, purely about politics. Does this take any heat off of her, Gloria?
BORGER: Sure, it does. I mean, that why she did a political ad about it. It takes an awful lot of heat off her. Anytime there's confusion about the Benghazi committee before which she's going to testify on October 22nd, it is really good for Hillary Clinton.
MADDEN: Let me disagree with you there. The only thing that's going to take off the heat for Hillary Clinton is a set of answers that holds up to scrutiny. That has not happened to this point and no matter what this staffer says, that's still going to be the test.
BORGER: But the Benghazi committee has to look like it is trying to get to the bottom of why these people died and not just the Hillary Clinton e-mail problem which, by the way, is a problem.
MADDEN: Yes. It's the important part of the investigation now.
BORGER: It is, but it is not the whole investigation.
LEMON: Let me ask Michael about that. You heard what Kevin had to say. But at some point, does it look like they're overplaying their hand, even if it's not so much like they adapt protest too much?
SMERCONICH: I think it continues all through the cycle to be a great issue to energize the base. That it will do. But, I think now the effect has dissipated that it can have an independence, a combination of Kevin McCarthy and now this individual.
LEMON: Do you want to respond to that? Does a it look -- can a republican over played their hand?
MADDEN: There's always a risk of overplaying your hand. But I think, you know, if you look at where independents start to swing on this, it's actually really hurt Hillary Clinton's standing with swing voters and independents. And that's why I think it's going to continue be a problem.
LEMON: If it does comes up, how should she handle it tomorrow?
BORGER: If the e-mails come up?
LEMON: Yes.
BORGER: I think she...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Or if the e-mails of Benghazi if it...
BORGER: Exactly. Well, She's already said it took her a long time to get there, but she already said it's a mistake and she shouldn't have done it and I think, then, but you know what, she'll say, the American people really care about x, y and z. They don't care about my e-mails.
MADDEN: But they do. They do care about everything else.
BORGER: Well.
MADDEN: When you know, when your story doesn't hold up, they continue to care about it.
BORGER: Democrats, well, right. But right now she's been running in democratic primary.
MADDEN: Yes.
LEMON: And Benghazi if it comes up say what she said on the other interviews it was, we're solid, we can do it right. We did some things wrong.
BORGER: Right. I don't...
(CROSSTALK)
SMERCONICH: But it doesn't matter now.
MADDEN: Yes.
SMERCONISH: These are two separate issues. We have a tendency to conflate them...
LEMON: Right.
BORGER: Sure.
SMERCONISH: ... to mix them together. I believe that the e-mail issues are a far more significant issue against her as things stand now than Benghazi, despite the loss of life of four individuals. I don't think that there is any culpability that's been shown on her part.
LEMON: I appreciate it. You, guys are smart.
BORGER: Thanks.
LEMON: Oh, your politics. All right. I appreciate it, guys. Thank you very much. Up next, what is the secret to winning this debate? We're going to break down the strategy that Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are likely to use on stage tomorrow night. We'll be back live from Las Vegas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Back now live in Las Vegas, less than 24 hours before the first democratic debate.
And joining me now is republican strategist, Ana Navarro, a supporter of Jeb Bush and adviser to other GOP candidates, Van Jones, a former official in the Obama administration, and democratic strategist, Donna Brazile.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm in your home, girl. What home.
LEMON: My home girl.
BRAZILE: Home girl from Louisiana.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Bring it on. Because this is called a diversity panel.
Hey, home girl.
NAVARRO: Well, let's start at your own risk.
LEMON: We had dinner last night. Can we just -- let's leave that for the -- let's -- can we talk business.
BRAZILE: We're in Vegas, baby.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: We're in Vegas
LEMON: What's in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
BRAZILE: That's so nice.
LEMON: OK. Listen, there's no Trump on the stage, Ana. And they have been saying -- there's not -- there has not been a lot of sniping. Bernie Sanders says he wants a civil debate. Is he going to get what he's asking for?
NAVARRO: Well, I think he's going to try to be civil or as, you know, as civil as he can be. But, look, it's a debate.
LEMON: Right.
NAVARRO: There is a front-runner. There are two front runners, really. There's going to be other people taking them on. There's going to be a lot of back and forth. I think there are three guys on that stage. Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chaffee and who's the other one?
LEMON: Jim Webb.
NAVARRO: Jim Webb.
BRAZILE: That stuff...
LEMON: And I forgot the third one.
NAVARRO: Right. Oops. You know, I think those three -- those three guys need to bring on the, you know, the heat. They need to figure out how to get attention.
LEMON: But honestly, isn't that part of the debate, you try to tear the other guy down?
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: I'm going to tell you, it's Jim Webb. Listen, if I'm Jim Webb, you can be a complete Kamikaze. He has nothing to lose, he is so far to the right of most of the party, and he actually have a real reason to fight. He does not agree with Hillary Clinton on foreign policy.
So, listen, you can -- everybody right now is talking about Bernie, we're talking about Hillary. The day after we could be talking about Jim Webb, because he just totally just tore the place up.
LEMON: Go ahead, Donna.
BRAZILE: But you know what? While Senator Webb has a great deal of military experience, I don't think he's bringing that type of experience to the table. I think Senator Webb is there to talk about the forgotten American, those who have been left behind.
I mean, what I've heard on the campaign trail to the extent I've been able to hear him, which means I have twitter, he has really tried to have this -- he's a populist. He's really trying to bring that on.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: But, Donna, he has forgotten America. Nobody even remembers he's running for president.
BRAZILE: I remember him
NAVARRO: Yes.
BRAZILE: He's a father of six. He's -- look, he's running a very decent campaign, given the lack of resources and, of course, the lack of...
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Oh, sweetheart, decency is so highly overrated. But they have to justify their existence and their presence on that stage.
LEMON: Doesn't that mean nothing to lose then if it is indeed true what Donna -- what Ana is saying is that, you know what, most people don't even know he's running for president. He has nothing to lose, so go for it. JONES: I think that right now we're talking about Bernie, we're
talking about Hillary.
NAVARRO: Right.
JONES: You've three people up there with nothing to lose. I think you have to tune in. Listen, if I'm Martin O'Malley, I would say, listen, how can you be the front-runner when all you can do is follow me around? You'd followed me on marriage, you'd followed me on the...
(CROSSTALK)
[22:35:02] LEMON: Why did you say she's trapped? Hillary Clinton is trapped. You said that.
JONES: Well, I think she's trapped because she's got -- she has a big challenge. When she tries to become more personable and be authentic, she lands in this place which is basically a moderate and a hot. That's what she really is.
So, when she try toes fix her policy positions, she switches over. Now she seems in authentic. She's trapped between policy position with the party.
LEMON: So, is it strategy?
JONES: Look, I think her strategy should be, listen, this is who I am. I'm probably more moderate than Bernie, I'm probably more of a hawk than some people up here, but I am here because my mother went through hell to raise me, I have seen a populist country and I want to fight. But she can talk, she can be a perfect -- tell me who you are as a person. Don't forget your policy.
LEMON: Why are you shaking your head, Donna?
BARZILE: Because this is not about her. If she's out there tomorrow night to tell us, well, this is about me, she will lose the debate. This is about the American people. This is about the people she's fighting for. This is about their jobs; it's about their health care. It's about making sure our...
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: Completely agree with it. It's actually about both. It's about her and it is about the American people and it's about how she connects with the American people. That is her big challenge tomorrow.
LEMON: Ana.
NAVARRO: And it's very different to do it through TV than it is to do it, you know, in an intimate setting which is her prefer, you know, what she prefers.
LEMON: As a republican, Ana, and they're going to say, maybe I'm going to watch, I'm not going to watch, I don't know, you know they're going to watching with their popcorn. What do they be looking for? NAVARRO: First I think you should be following Donald Trump tomorrow
night because I'm sure the live tweets that are be going on are better than when Donna and I are live tweeting scandal. You know.
LEMON: The team live, tweeting the debate you mean.
NAVARRO: Yes. Look, the republicans are going to be facing one of those folks up there. Well, maybe Biden if he decides to run. I think that if you're a political junky, this is the, man, this is the playoffs, OK?
We've been waiting for this for four years. It is fun, it's the first time these guys are all going to be, and a lady, are going to be on a stage together testing themselves. They have it -- it's been years since Hillary Clinton has been on a debate stage.
LEMON: Yes. And the new guys, first impressions are everything. So, this one is really important.
BRAZILE: They better bring their party music because you are also part of the DJ team as one of the moderators. So, they better bring this party music.
NAVARRO: OK. And, wait, and what are you wearing? Who are you wearing?
BRAZILE: Well, well, and where are you standing?
LEMON: Maybe a little Burberry. Who knows?
NAVARRO: Oh!
BRAZILE: Look at that.
LEMON: My goodness.
NAVARRO: Fancy.
LEMON: You guys. Coming up, the stage won't be nearly as crowded for the democrats as it was for the republican debate, but what do the lesser known candidates need to do to get their share of the spotlight?
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It really is a stunning venue here at the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas. You know, front runner Hillary Clinton and challenger Bernie Sanders are in the spotlight as we count down to tomorrow night's debate. But what about the other three candidates?
Back with me now to talk about all of that, Ana Navarro, Van Jones, and Donna Brazile. Ana Navarro, you're advising a democrat. Webb, Chaffee, O'Malley, what would you tell them to do tomorrow night?
NAVARRO: Set that stage on fire. Make yourself memorable. Look, we saw, for example, Carly Fiorina, come out of the undercard debate under republican side, go from being an asterisk to being a rising star.
It can be done. Debates can change campaigns, can change elections, can have an effect. The last thing democrats want for the headlines to be, and CNN for the headlines to be the next day, is that it was a boring as hell debate. Nobody wants to hear that. So, they've got to bring some excitement. They have to make it interesting.
LEMON: Donna said bring your A game, Van.
BRAZILE: Absolutely.
JONES: Yes. Well, look, there is a pathway for Martin O'Malley. He has to stand out. I do think he has to challenge Hillary Clinton for falling him around on all the issues. But the thing is, he needs to be Marco Rubio.
Marco Rubio first set out to be everybody's second favorite choice. Let him establish that. Then from there, he can put off a Carly and possibly pop.
LEMON: You know, I want to play this moment for you, Donna, and this is Bernie Sanders, he's on Meet the Press. And this is what the Washington Post -- Washington Post said on the column that these are the five words that shows why Bernie Sanders won't ever be president. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you a capitalist?
BERNIE SANDERS, (D) U.S PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. I'm a democratic socialist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I'm a democratic socialist. Is that why he won't be president?
BRAZILE: You know, my mother used to say it's not what they call you, it's what you answer to. So, he just told us. He answered to being a socialist. That you know what, so he's not afraid of speaking up for the average person. He's a working man, working woman type of candidate. I cannot tell you one issue where I disagree with Bernie Sanders.
NAVARRO: But, Don.
BRAZILE: And I am a, quote and quote, "Moderate pragmatic type of democrat."
NAVARRO: Well, listen, I am not a democratic or any type of socialist, but you have to be authentic. You know, the only person who can pull off a reinvention after the age of 25 is Madonna. And Bernie Sanders is no Madonna. You cannot start reinventing yourself after decades in politics as a socialist. LEMON: I would say, though, that Hillary Clinton has reinvented
herself a number of times.
NAVARRO: It hasn't gone all that well. OK? She's that's why she's tried it so many times.
BRAZILE: She's still holding strong.
LEMON: Yes.
JONES: One thing that's so interesting about Bernie Sanders is, you think if you say you're a socialist, you're completely out. If you look at the polling data, 50 percent of Americans say they would never vote for a socialist. But 47 percent of Americans say that they would. And if you look at the young voters...
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They all live in California.
JONES: You've got to be...
BRAZILE: They're Americans, too.
JONES: But if you look the youngest voters they're split even on the socialist. So, I think these labels from the last century just don't matter. Many may not like your ideology but if they like your ideas and your heart, they'll go with you.
LEMON: Donna, I just have a couple of seconds left. Then you keep saying, you know, they're going to -- you want to talk about issues and one in this night.
BRAZILE: Yes.
[22:45:00] LEMON: But if she is attacked, meaning Hillary Clinton, what did she do, how does she defend herself? Girl. All right.
BRAILE: All right. You know what that is, right?
LEMON: I think what you were saying.
BRAZILE: This is one time that if I told you what I would do...
LEMON: Yes.
BRAZILE: ... smack them down. Smack them back, smack them hard and make them -- make them cry for even looking at me.
NAVARRO: She's got to show passion. And that means fighting back if she gets attacked.
BRAZILE: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: No matter what.
LEMON: Yes.
BRAZILE: Like a woman would. Because you know what, bring it on. Let's say, inner woman come out.
LEMON: That means don't mess with Don, that look was like, oh, my God. Van, you didn't see that. She looked at me in the eye.
JONES: I saw from behind. I saw from the back of her head.
BRAZILE: I would do one of these like -- Martin O'Malley, coming to challenge my record, my 33, 35-year record of fighting for everyday Americans across this country?
JONES: Take note. Take note.
BRAZILE: OK. You want to start that conversation?
LEMON: Thank you.
NAVARRO: Bye, Felicia.
BRAZILE: No, no.
LEMON: Thank you very much, Donna Brazile, Van Jones.
BRAZILE: No, no, Patsy, this is my inter-patsy.
LEMON: And Ana Navarro.
BRAZILE: Bring on your inner patsy.
LEMON: I appreciate it.
NAVARRO: Finger snap.
LEMON: Coming up, Vegas is America's melting pot and there is no better tour guide than the colorful former mayor. I'm riding in style with Oscar Goodman.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We are just hours away from tomorrow night's CNN debate right here in Las Vegas. And no one knows this town better than the larger than life former Mayor Oscar Goodman.
I took a ride through town with him and you'll see that in our next hour. But we also talked about how the eyes of the world will be on this town tomorrow night and why that's just fine with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why is this a perfect place to have a debate?
OSCAR GOODMAN, FORMER LAS VEGAS MAYOR: Because this is like a cross- section of the world and particularly of the United States. Whatever attitude, whatever feeling the people who listen to the debate, who are here will take from it. I believe the candidates should rely on that because it will represent the feeling of our country.
LEMON: Do you think Vegas is American in the sense of diversity and...
GOODMAN: It's the first place I've ever seen. We tried to have a redistricting here and tried to get a minority unit to be represented on of our wards, weren't able to do it because it's so heterogeneous.
We welcome people here. This is a community that prides itself on the fact that we are accepting of all people, men, women, blacks, whites, Jews, not Jews, Gentiles, whatever.
LEMON: Hispanic Asian as we've seen. Everyone is talking about that. They're all welcome, they're all welcome here.
What struck me most is when you said that Las Vegas is kind of America's story.
GOODMAN: It is. This is the story of the dream come true, of any person who ever came over from someplace else's and settled in this great country of ours. To be able to use your intellect, your genius, your hard work, your industry. And the only thing that would stop you is the fact that you don't have a good idea.
But if you have an idea, you make it come true in Las Vegas. And that pertained to the old Jewish mobsters who finance these casinos here. The Italian folks who came in and were running these casinos here. The Irish folks who were regulating the casinos here.
LEMON: That's an immigration story.
GOODMAN: It's the American story. That's what America is all about, immigration and people having opportunities to accomplish his dream.
LEMON: And that's what the candidates need to know, and especially you said you would -- what would you say to Donald Trump about that? He's make such a big deal about illegal immigration.
GOODMAN: I don't think that he really means what he says as far as rounding up millions of people and shipping them across a border. It doesn't make any economic sense. It doesn't solve any problems, either, because you can't build a fence big enough to keep people out if they want to come in. That simple.
LEMON: And you said that this place, Las Vegas, would not be possible without...
GOODMAN: I really believe that the backbones of the gaming industry, the folks who make the beds, who cut the lawns, who do a lot of the menial work are folks who have just into this country. They're learning English as a second language and they're very industrious, and they work hard here in order to elevate themselves and to give their families things they didn't have from where they came. LEMON: And they move up.
GOODMAN: They move up the ladder and become the most prominent people in Las Vegas through their hard work, through their honesty and integrity.
LEMON: Let's go to the candidates real quick. Give me a short synopsis. So, let's start with the top. Let's start with Hillary. What would you like her to know about?
GOODMAN: Well, she's been here several times. I've had the pleasure of meeting her out here. She knows what Las Vegas is all about.
LEMON: What do you want to ask her?
GOODMAN: I want to ask her how she's going to fix the debt, how to make sure that we're to be fiscally sound as a country. That's number one.
LEMON: All right. Then how about Bernie Sanders?
GOODMAN: Bernie Sanders is a fellow who comes from a different kind of background than politicians that we're used to hear. He's a socialist by nature and a lot of the things that he's talking about, free things I want to know how we're going to pay for it.
LEMON: How we're go pay for it. Martin O'Malley.
GOODMAN: Yes. Martin is a friend of mine. I've known him for days. I was a mayor, he was a mayor of Baltimore and then governor of Maryland. I think he's a bright, young guy, he makes a good impression. I think he's going to be a real comer.
Lot is going to debate on whether Vice President Biden is going to enter the race. I think that would have a great effect on how Martin is going to fair.
LEMON: The youngest most intelligent debunk (ph) I think.
GOODMAN: Well, he smiles.
LEMON: Yes, he smiles. Chaffee?
GOODMAN: I don't know much about the gentleman. I really wouldn't want to comment on him.
LEMON: Yes. Webb?
GOODMAN: I only knew what I've read about him. He comes from a very different background. He was in the Reagan administration and now he's running as a democrat. So, that makes you scratch your head a little bit.
LEMON: Yes. Are you happy that the eyes of the world will be on you?
GOODMAN: Yes. This is fixed deal for us. You know what, not that we had to be legitimated because Las Vegas is what it is. But people can now see that we're a serious place where you do serious business and then afterwards you have a good time and what happens here stays here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: More from Oscar Goodman, coming up. We'll be right back.
[22:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We are just hours away from the first democratic debate but there's still time for you to get your question to the candidates. Just post it on CNN's Facebook or Instagram pages. I'll be in the Facebook lounge to ask some of the questions that you submit. Here is a peek behind the scenes, rather.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Come on in here. This, check this out. This is really cool. This is what we call the spin room. Look at these booths. You see those booths. That's like -- it's like the Oscars when you go to some big Hollywood event and then all the media have their own little spot, the stars come over and they talk to them.
So, after the debate, they'll come in here, in the spin room and they're try to spin what happening and what they're talking about. And up there on the stage you'll see Wolf, and you'll see all of our political experts and correspondents and anchors and they'll be talking about what happened at the debate.
Check these tables out. And those -- that sofa over there, that's because, guess what. This is a lounge. The Facebook lounge. We'll be in here before and after the debate. What we're talking about, what you're talking about and getting your questions about what you think is important conversation.
We'll be right here. You'll have a bunch of monitors and we'll have a bunch of monitors and computers where we can see the conversations you're talking about, what interests you, what you thought was important, what you think is important. That will happen before and after the debate.
[23:00:04] So, there you have it. The CNN democratic Facebook debate spinroom and CNN Facebook democratic lounge. Elections USA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
