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Don Lemon Tonight

Report: Black Boxes Show Bomb on Downed Plane; New ISIS Video Claims Responsibility; Ben Carson Lashes Out at Media; Carson on Defensive Over West Point Comments; Ben Carson Speaking in Florida. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired November 06, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is "CNN Breaking News".

DON LEMON, "CNN TONIGHT" HOST: And the breaking news is on two big stories. Dr. Ben Carson doubles down in Florida and the deadly Sinai crash was no accident. This is "CNN Tonight", I'm Don Lemon.

Ben Carson saying this just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You guys trying to pile on is actually going to help me because when I go out to these book signings and I see these thousands of people, they say don't let the media get you down. Don't let them disturb you. Please continue to fight for us. See, they understand that this is a witch hunt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You need to know that Ben Carson is expected to speak again shortly. We're going to bring that to you as it happens right here on "CNN Tonight."

Plus pyramid scheme. The expert say candidate Carson is wrong about the pyramids but does the surge in the poll show that voters just don't care?

We have a lot going on tonight but I want to begin with this stunning breaking news. Investigators say the deadly crash of a plane full of tourists was not an accident. They believe evidence on the plane's black boxes confirms that the plane was brought down by a bomb. And tonight, we have a new video from ISIS claiming responsibility.

Let's discuss now with Aviation Correspondent Rene Marsh, Safety Analyst David Soucie, author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370" and Military Analyst, Cedric Leighton joining as well.

Rene to you first, a new ISIS video claiming responsibility, what do you know?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well Don, as we know, ISIS claimed responsibility for the downing of this passenger plane pretty early on and in this new propaganda video, the ISIS branch in Aleppo is congratulating the ISIS affiliate in Sinai.

Now, the video says they brought down this Russian passenger plane because of Russia's air strikes in Syria and they're promising even more attacks. We do know that there is an aggressive chapter of ISIS in the Sinai Peninsula but despite the claims from ISIS, they have yet, Don, to show any proof that they actually brought this passenger plane down.

LEMON: Interesting. David Soucie, what did the investigators find on the flight recorders that make them so sure that this is not an accident and that it's a terror attack?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, what they heard Don is a signature of a bomb going off, an explosion. That's different than what-- than a tear in the aircraft or something like a tank that would have caught fire. This is an explosion, very distinctive, just that the same time, almost instantaneously, there was a -- what they called the blackout.

What the blackout means is that there's no data to the flight data recorder and there's no data to the cockpit voice recorder, which are on opposite ends of the airplane. So something dramatic enough to tear that apart happened simultaneously so they concluded that that means that it is a bomb and I concur.

LEMON: Any information or explanation other than a bomb, David? I mean, could it have been a mechanical malfunction or you're pretty sure it's a bomb?

SOUCIE: At this point, Don, I can't think of any mechanical explanation for why this would happen to where they both go out at the same time because it wasn't an electrical failure. They were still reading data, but there was no data to read. So it was broken off. It was tearing apart that quickly.

Had there been some kind of mechanical failure, Don, there would have been some indication of it on the cock -- on the flight data recorder just before if the fuselage cracked for example. If something like that had happened, the flight data recorder would have shown that in the data and these investigators are saying there's no evidence of that, whatsoever.

LEMON: So Cedric, U.S. Intelligence suggests that the bomb was planted in the hold of the plane possibly with the help of an airport insider. If they can get a guy in the airport in Sharm El-Sheikh to plant a bomb, could they have someone like that in other airports in the Middle East?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Absolutely, Don. In fact, they can have somebody like that at almost any airport. It really depends on the airport's ability to vet their personnel and to make sure that nothing changes in those personnel files and also in the people themselves, you know, either financial issues for the people. Are they sympathetic to a terrorist group? Those are all questions that have to be asked not only in the initial vetting process but also throughout the person's employment at a sensitive place like an airport.

LEMON: Another question for you, Cedric. You know, this new ISIS video suggests that Russia was targeted because of its air strikes in Syria. Do you think that the fight against ISIS is about to escalate even further now?

LEIGHTON: I do, Don. And the reason I think that is that this is in essence one of these game-changing events. One of these game-changing events that actually will change the geopolitical landscape in this part of the world in the Middle East and it will also serve to draw the U.S. and Russia closer together because we now have a common enemy and both of us are fighting against that enemy and this is ISIS.

[21:05:08] LEMON: You know, with that said and also what Cedric said earlier about it could be in any airport, David Soucie, do you think smaller airports like Sharm el-Sheikh, will they be -- likely be targets of -- or do we need to worry about major international airports, too?

SOUCIE: Well, I think that all the major international airports and most of the small ones as well, Don, have a vetting process for any of the employees there. So there's two kinds of security. There's the physical security that goes on at the airport and then preparatory. There's the things that you do to screen people that have access to the sterile area.

These sterile areas are very well monitored. They have cameras. They know what's going on there but you can't just ask someone to come to work for you anymore in any airport worldwide. They all have to go through a vetting process before they can have access to this sterile area.

So while it could be, I don't see that there is more or less vulnerability in some airports, however, if there is a combination airport, which means that they have international flights during some seasons and then off season they have private flights going in there, those are the ones that are most vulnerable.

LEMON: OK. Rene, you know, the U.S. ordered enhanced security for international flights to the U.S. What are they?

MARSH: Yeah, this was the first time we heard from the Department of Homeland Security since this all happened and we can tell you that tonight transportation officials they are. They are tightening security measures at airports around the world but specifically airports where U.S.-bound planes originate.

So the security measures include expanding screening of items on board, assessing security at foreign airports, as well as assisting these foreign airports with their security matters.

We do know from the White House that these increased checks will happen at fewer than 10 overseas airports and tonight, Don, a source tells me that three of those airports, Cairo, Kuwait and Oman. LEMON: You know what's interesting, David, is you remember this report that came out, I think it was just a week ago about the TSA and that they bound, you know, they didn't find explosives, this was a test. I mean, how worried should people be?

SOUCIE: Yeah.

LEMON: I mean, is this enough to stop another potential bomb considering the report that we got before this even happened?

SOUCIE: I'll tell you what worries me most about this, Don is the fact that this thing got on to the airplane and the way that it did implies that the system, that the protocols, everything that we've done since 9/11 to make this tight, to make the system work worldwide is in question now.

Someone within that system that's designed to protect us is the actual person who caused this to happen. So I'm really torn. I'm very concerned about this because it's not just an incident, it's a systemic problem and there's going to be a lot of work to do but I do believe that that work will be underway and there's a way to fix it and they will do it, but I still have my concerns at the moment.

LEMON: David, Rene, and Cedric thank you very much. Have a good weekend.

When we come right back, an angry Ben Carson doubles down on his criticism of the media tonight in Florida, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: What you're going to find with me is somebody who's just going to sit back and let you be completely unfair without letting the American people know what's going on and the American people are waking up to your games.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:12:09] LEMON: The breaking news tonight is an angry Ben Carson lashing out at the media for investigating his past even though his life story is a key part of the campaign for president.

He is speaking at an event and is in Florida tonight and CNN National Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty is there for us again. This is -- I can tell you where that is. That is in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. It is the Black Republican Caucus of South Florida. It's a GOP scholarship gala that he is speaking and as soon as he takes the stage, we'll bring that to you.

But Sunlen, Ben Carson is extremely angry with the media tonight. You saw that after spending the last couple of days building questions about some of his past statements. What do you know about this?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I think it's very clear that all of the scrutiny in this intense period of questioning he's getting about his past is really getting under his skin. We saw him just a short time ago at a press availability and he really brought a lot of anger to the podium.

He was very combative, very aggressive, really pointing the finger at the media overall this scrutiny and he specifically really hammered down on the point about these past questions about his past incidents of violence. Here's what he said moments ago at that press event.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: Well, let me put it this way, if everyone here will sign an affidavit saying that if I reveal the name of the person involved in this stabbing incident that you will be singing my praises and none of this stuff will ever go on again, I'll think about it. Will you do that? Yes? Yes? Yes? Yes? Yes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And at times during that press event, he really seemed a little bit exasperated that he even had to be standing there continuing to answer questions but he did reveal one important hint of something to come.

He has not revealed the real names of any of these victims of that school violence but tonight he did say into me that that potentially would be coming soon saying he may put out someone to the media in his words to eat up shortly, Don.

LEMON: Yeah and listen, he may really have a point though when it comes to today's controversy over claiming that he got offered a scholarship for West Point, Sunlen. That was original media report of that was -- it wasn't necessarily true.

SERFATY: Well, the campaign, you're right, has been pushing back very forcefully on as the campaign and the candidate themselves to really not going as far as that political report that for sure hit this morning not making a direct connection acknowledging that just because he didn't apply to West Point was an acknowledgement that he did not get accepted.

So Carson really pushing back tonight specifically saying that yes, he has in the past said that he was offered a scholarship. He said -- explained that saying that he was casually offered that in conversation with West Point officials and he said that does it -- it has not exclusively mean formally offered that so certainly a big push back on the part from the campaign (inaudible).

[21:15:13] LEMON: Sunlen, thank you very much. We're going to keep an eye on that and again when Ben Carson speaks, we'll get to that. We'll bring it to you on this program.

While we're waiting, let's bring in Hugh Hewitt here. He's the host of a radio "Hugh Hewitt Show", the author of "The Queen: The Epic Ambition of Hillary Clinton and the Coming of a Second Clinton Era ". So Hugh, we're keeping an eye on that event. If he, you know, if he starts to speak, we may have to interrupt our interview and then we'll come back and talk about it.

So what is your take on this press event we saw tonight? Did he seem rattled by the scrutiny? I mean, usually he's a calm and cool guy.

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW": I don't think he's rattled. I think he won the day, Don. I think when the West Point story started out as being this big expose of Ben Carson following in there everybody hasn't been telling us the truth and at the end of the day, everyone is kind of telling me, I talked to Chuck Todd on my radio show tonight. Yeah, you know, I got offered a scholarship but it wasn't in writing. You're going to have Beckel on a little bit later. Beckel got offered scholarships they weren't in writing.

People can't remember the precise details of 40 years ago but I have no doubt in my mind that army officers said to a young Ben Carson, hey, come to West Point. It's free. We pay for your education. You have to do service in the army. You'd make a great army officer and I have no doubt he said no thank you, I want to go be a doctor.

Unfortunately, he went to the University of Michigan where they don't have football but he nevertheless, I believe the details of his story, the general outline and I'm very sympathetic to the idea he is being held to a different standard than the president was in 2008 and I would point at...

LEMON: I wanted to -- why do you think that because we talk -- let's listen to this. This is from -- which talks about what you're talking about. This is from this morning. We heard from Ben Carson with my colleague Alisyn Camerota on "New Day", listen.

HEWITT: Yeah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, "NEW DAY" HOST: ...reveal that the president had to talk about that.

CARSON: ...you all did with the President Obama doesn't even come close, doesn't even come close to what you guys are trying to do in my case and you're going to just keep going back trying to find he said this 12 years ago. He said, you know, it is just garbage. We have too many things that are important to deal with.

CAMEROTA: Look, Dr. Carson, if this two -- obviously, it's an interesting story and it is the seminal story of your youth, which is why people are interested but mostly it is about vetting and it is trying to find out if candidates are fact-based and if they can be trusted and if...

CARSON: OK. So you've done your job. OK? Kudos, let's move on.

CAMEROTA: OK but last, does Bob exist? Is Bob a real person?

CARSON: That's not the real name but yes, it's a very real person. I talked to him yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So you said he won the day. You also believe that the media didn't vet Barack Obama the same way but I remember tons of stories about Barack Obama where he was born, his college transcripts, his pastor, the things he wrote in his books, were they true or not. All of the press...

HEWITT: Don, I'll be very specific. You've never seen his college transcripts. You've never seen his Harvard law transcripts. You've never seen his Occidental College transcripts. You've never seen the video...

LEMON: But most presidents don't release their college transcripts, Hugh.

HEWITT: You've never seen the video of Rashid Khalidi that's been held by the "L.A. Times" since 2003. You never knew about Frank Marshall Davis until recent years. I don't care about that anymore. I'm not really interesting in rehashing it. I'm interested in pointing out that Ben Carson is exactly right.

LEMON: Hugh, but I agree with you. I agree with you. So what you're saying there is that you don't want to rehash it but he is rehashing it and instead of taking the opportunity to answer the questions, he sort of re-litigating history and he's not really answering the question. You don't think he's deflecting?

HEWITT: He is not really -- he is pointing out that there is a systemic anti-conservative bias in the media that subjects republicans to a much more pervasive and endless story.

Look at the scandals this way. Marco Rubio's American Express Card, Ben Carson's West Point offers, over here on the other side we have Hillary Clinton's Foundation, it's an (inaudible) foundation refusing to answer questions of a senate committee that have to do with Huma Abedin over the last four years.

That's a Mount Everest of a scandal combine Rubio and Ben Carson and you've got the Ben Hogan Bridge at Augusta. That's all that compares.

LEMON: OK.

HEWITT: So Mount Everest democrat, Ben Carson -- Ben Hogan Bridge at Augusta, republican and we're spending time talking about Ben Carson that's the media, Don.

LEMON: All right, so here's another example though of something. So I see what you're talking about and again it's from "New Day" this morning with Alisyn Camerota about Fox News, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: Even if all the media tries to shut you down, which they have tried very much to do with me but they can't because the good Lord has provided me with mechanisms like my syndicated column and like Fox News we'd be -- it would be Cuba if there were no Fox News.

[21:20:09] CAMEROTA: Now, as you point out, I did work at Fox for many years and I do have many friends there still who are excellent journalists, but I'm not sure that even they think that without their reporting that we would be Cuba, you mean that if Fox News didn't exist, we would be a communist country?

CARSON: No. Again, there you go with sensationalism. That's what you try to do and you hope that somehow that will resonate with people who don't think for themselves...

CAMEROTA: Dr. Carson, you said it. I'm actually quoting you.

CARSON: ...are much smarter than you think they are. They are a lot smart and they exactly what I'm talking about.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Carson, I'm actually quoting -- I'm not even quoting you. I'm playing your words. You are the person who said that there are a lot of people who are stupid and that without Fox News we would be...

CARSON: So are you on it...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Hugh, seriously, how is it sensational to play a clip of what someone said and then ask them what they meant by it?

HEWITT: Because it's -- if you can't reproduce irony. What Ben Carson was saying in the Cuba comment was an ironic comment. I understood it immediately as an ironic comment. He doesn't mean that we're going to be Cuba. He means that Cuba has a one-party system...

LEMON: And why are you answering and he's not? Why can't he answer that question the way you're answering it. It just perfectly makes sense.

HEWIT: He's running for office and he is exasperated -- he is very exasperated with the media because he would like to talk at length. I would love him to come on my radio show and talk at length. He's only been on a few times.

He would like to talk at length about his issues. I'll tell you this Don, he was at Colorado Christian University last week, 1500 people came and listened to him give a speech. I think he believes that the media would be better serving the public if they would ask him substantive questions and give him five or seven minutes. Now, that's not how we do it and I think CNN is very, very fair in its coverage. I think they have...

LEMON: But I think CNN would have given him as much time as possible this morning on that program to get his point across but he simply didn't want to answer the questions.

HEWITT: But -- were have you asked him yet, Don, Dr. Carson, what's wrong with Obamacare? If I want to give you three minutes, tell me what's really wrong with medical care in America today? What's happening in the world of pediatric neurosurgery as a result of Obamacare? That's the question he wants. So that's not a guarantee of getting it, but I think he'd be less exasperated if it was one for one...

LEMON: OK.

HEWITT: ...and this West Point thing is just silly.

LEMON: But, you know, Hugh, you don't always get the questions you want and people have asked him about Obamacare and he has said that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery. He has had plenty of time to explain Obamacare.

You mentioned Hillary Clinton, he mentioned Hillary Clinton as well. Listen to this and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: I want you to ask Hillary Clinton the same questions you ask me. Will you do that? Will you promise that you're going to do that?

CAMEROTA: Yes, of course. Of course we ask Hillary Clinton questions about...

CARSON: OK. Well, Alisyn, everybody heard it. We're waiting.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Carson, of course we ask Hillary Clinton questions about what she wants to do with foreign policy, what she wants to do with education about her books, of course we ask those questions and...

CARSON: Do you ask her questions about veracity of what she's done? I want you to go back and ask her some real questions about what happened at Benghazi. I want you to ask her does her philosophy include not knowing anything about what was going on in all the foreign territories over which she was responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We have asked Hillary Clinton so many questions. I even asked her if she was the original birther. We went through the transcripts and CNN has done hundreds of stories about Hillary Clinton and Benghazi, the Hillary Clinton e-mails. We took the entire hearing of her being grilled by the House Republicans gavel and that analyzed it to death and we still talk about it.

HUGH: Well, let me give you a parallel. In 1994, Hillary Clinton said she had tried -- attempted to enlist in the marines, she investigated it. I find that to be a completely absurd story. I don't believe it for a moment. It's never been vetted.

She's also said she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary. How often you guys talk about that? That's a non-sense claim on her part.

She's made so many non-sense claims but here's one question you haven't asked, Mrs. Clinton you sent an e-mail on the night of Benghazi to your daughter Chelsea saying it was an Al Qaeda-like terrorist attack. Did she have the clearance to receive that? Did you think twice about that and by the way, the Teneo Foundation has made these -- has refused to answer these questions, will you Mrs. Clinton direct with Teneo Foundation to answer these questions?

So there are a lot of tough questions that Hillary Clinton doesn't get even though you and Jake Tapper have asked her a lot. I think Ben Carson and all the republican feel get far more just in a quantitative exponential number of difficult personal questions intended to destroy their candidacy.

LEMON: Hugh, but you know just because someone makes a claim and that doesn't mean that we're not digging behind the scenes to find out if it's true or not. They make bogus claims. You should ask this questions and we -- sometimes it's like you shouldn't even ask the question because it's so silly. We haven't talked about the whole sponge thing in the head but because we think some of those things are beyond the pail.

HEWITT: Well, what about the helicopter? How about when she said she was shot at?

LEMON: That was talked about at length last -- the last time.

[21:25:04] HEWITT: But right now in the context of Ben Carson's veracity, you ought to be saying Hillary Clinton's veracity has often been challenged (inaudible). She's been proven to be a liar in many cases.

Marco Rubio called her a liar last week. Well now, today, the Teneo Foundation is refusing to answer questions about her senior aide, Huma Abedin in a very shady, probably I believe illegal arrangement with the Department of State and by the way, Don, that server was illegal.

LEMON: Yeah.

HEWITT: That's the real important national security.

LEMON: Hugh, I know but we talked about that over and over...

HEWITT: Oh no, you don't talk about it enough.

LEMON: Oh my gosh, I'm tired of hearing about it.

HEWITT: Here's that quiz. Tell me the statute under which it's illegal. I've said on the show a number of times, 18 USC 1924. It is illegal...

LEMON: What do you want me to do? Do you want me to go over and arrest her? I can't do that.

HEWITT: No, I want you to ask her the questions...

(CROSSTALK)

HEWITT: I want you to raise it with Beckel after this (inaudible) did she break the low.

LEMON: I got to go and only because I want to listen to Ben Carson. If I don't do it now, I don't have the time.

HEWITT: All right, very well.

LEMON: But Hugh, thank you so much. We'll continue to talk. I appreciate it. Hugh Hewitt everyone.

Ben Carson speaking now at this GOP Scholarship Gala, let's listen in.

CARSON: ...lots of benefit from government programs and now he wants to withdraw all the government programs for everybody. And nothing could be further from the truth. It's just a blatant lie. But, you know, you get used to that. That's all they do is sit around and tell lies but, you know, the fact of the matter is what I'm interested in is not with drawing safety nets. I'm interested in providing a ladder which allows people to climb out of the state of dependency and become part of the fabric of America. This is what we have to do and to think about.

And that sometimes means doing things in a bit different way. You know, my mother did things in a bit different way. She prayed to God and she asked God to give her the wisdom to know what to do to get her young sons to be able to develop their minds and to be able to control their own minds. And, you know, you don't have to have a PhD to talk to God. You just have to have faith and she had faith. And you know what?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That is Dr. Ben Carson, we're monitoring that. He's speaking tonight in Palm Beach, Gardens at a GOP Scholarship Gala of the Black Republican Caucus of South Florida. We'll continue to monitor and dip in if we need to.

When we come back, will his battle against the media help or hurt his campaign?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:31:34] LEMON: Our breaking news tonight is an angry Ben Carson goes off on reporters for asking questions about his past. And as we monitor him speaking tonight in Florida, we'll dip in if we have if he says anything we think is worthy of putting on the air.

Let's talk about this. So joining me is Bob Beckel, CNN Political Commentator and author of "I Should Be Dead: My Life Surviving Politics, T.V. and Addiction", R. Albert Mohler Jr., President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and author of "We Cannot Be Silent". Stacy Washington, host radio "Stacey on the Right" and Carl Heigbie is in studio with me, author and former Navy Seal who is a Trump supporter.

Hello to you Mr. Beckel. Dr. Ben Carson address reporters tonight, let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: There is a desperation on behalf of some to try to find a way to tarnish me because they have been looking through everything. They have been talking to everybody I've ever known. Everybody were saying, there's got to be a scandal. There's going to be some nurses he had an affair with. There's going to be something. They are getting desperate. So next week it will be my kindergarten teacher who said I peed in my pants. I mean, it's just ridiculous but it's OK because I totally expect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I mean, Bob, what's your reaction? That's all true. Welcome to running for president.

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I was about to say, welcome to the big show, Dr. Carson. Look, but in the question, is this going to hurt him? In the short run, I think it's probably going to help him with the republican activists who believe that all this is true what he's saying about the media. But in the long run, he's going to lose.

I mean, you can't -- you cannot beat them. I've been through this before. If you're going to tell a lie, you better be sure the lie can't be unfurled before the voters go to the polls and, you know, to write something down. I mean, with all due respect to Hugh Hewitt but to write something down about a West Point scholarship in a book, I mean you get to read your book to edit it and you could (inaudible) say that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it's common knowledge that West Point doesn't give scholarships.

BECKEL: Yeah, and it wasn't tough, all I do is pick up the phone and call, right?

LEMON: Yeah, why are you shaking your head Dr. Mohler?

R. ALBERT MOHLER JR., PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: Well, because I don't think this is a story at all. I think the American people are going to see through it. This plays right in to Ben Carson's narrative and why he's giving so much traction.

I mean, first of all to get to West Point is to get a scholarship. Every student at West Points gets a scholarship. In his book all he said was that General William Westmoreland or someone else had offered him a scholarship or admission. He was the top ROTC student in the high school system of Detroit. There's every reason to believe that that's exactly what happened.

LEMON: OK, so Dr. Mohler here's the -- listen to this.

MOHLER: Yeah. LEMON: How about say what you say, listen, these questions are

ridiculous and, you know, and -- but it happens every time someone runs for president. I am happy that this is happening because it means that I'm now in the big leagues and at the top of the polls and this is what happen so I will answer your question with glee and then move on. How about that?

MOHLER: Well, I think that's actually what's going to happen and I think Ben Carson understands exactly what's going on and this was a really bad day for Politico. They've even rewritten their headline. You got many of the mainstream media...

LEMON: I understand that, but you're talking about Politico. What about what I asked though? How about taking back taxes instead of...

(CROSSTALK)

MOHLER: Yeah, I believe, actually you make a very legitimate point. I think you make a very legitimate point and I think that's exactly what he needs to do and I think he's got nothing to run from here. He has one of the most heroic stories in modern America and I believe he has every opportunity and frankly the responsibility. The only point I think that really needs to be made today that you're making in a way that needs to be heard by every candidate is if you're going to run for president, you have to look in the camera and answer this question.

[21:35:08] LEMON: OK Dr. Mohler.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And I -- he has a great story and if he doesn't, it's all in the way you shake the narrative. It's on the way that you pivot it and turn the story.

Stacy, you said that you love Dr. Carson for his personal story but not as president. Why is that?

STACY WASHINGTON, HOST "STACY ON THE RIGHT" RADIO SHOW: Well, I'm not decided right now, Don. I've had time to look at all the candidates and I have gone to their websites and I've heard a lot of what they've had to say on the campaign trail and for Dr. Carson, he still needs to earn my vote as far as being able to govern.

And so I'm looking at the way that he's handling all the scandals, everything that's going on or I shouldn't say scandals, these incidents with the media where he has to answer questions and I understand he's passionate about a lot of what he's talking about but I want to see how he handles these things, how he can control the message, how his campaign can ramp up and basically rise to the level that he's operating at which is top tier candidate.

LEMON: OK. Carl, another portion of what Carson said tonight. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARSON: Here is my prediction. My prediction is that all of you guys trying to pile on is actually going to help me because when I go out to these book signings and see this thousands of people, they say don't let the media get you down. Don't let them disturb you. Please continue to fight for us. See, they understand that this is a witch hunt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, he says Carl, the media is piling on but Donald Trump jumped on this. I mean, he has been tweeting about Ben Carson, West Point...

CARL HIGBIE, NAVY AND FORMER NAVY SEAL: Yup.

LEMON: ...that this knifing incident, Ben Carson and the pyramid is -- does Donald Trump see an opportunity here?

HIGBIE: Absolutely, and the entire American public in the press and everybody sees this. I mean, look at what rate made Ben Carson rise to the top and that was his trustworthiness. Seventy something percent of Americans liked him because they thought he was trustworthy. Now, he's got this problem, this completely erodes his entire base and that's going to bring Trump back right on top.

LEMON: And Carl he's running, I mean -- excuse me, Bob, he's running on his personal story on his trustworthiness and really and what the American public has comes from the books and his personal biography.

BECKEL: Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, let me give you an example, as Hugh made a point talking I think is important. When I managed (inaudible) ran into all kinds of trouble about releasing their tax returns and where her husband didn't (inaudible).

She finally decided to stand in front of the press for 3.5 hours and answered every question and that's what she said, "Ask me anything you want and I'll answer it," and it went away. So I mean, you got to expect this and if Carson has the sense that I think he does, he's a smart guy, he's going to reach the conclusion here that he's not going to be getting a lot of traction by just beating up on the press. He's just trying to answer the questions.

LEMON: Yeah, all right thank you guys. Appreciate it.

Coming up, Ben Carson's new campaign ad seems to be geared towards a certain demographic at least that's what Comedy Central's Larry Wilmore think.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY WILMORE: Come on Ben Carson, a rap song? Is it so hard to get the black vote? You're the black candidate. You're in danger of losing it now. I mean, what did you think was going to happen? Yo man, you got to vote for Ben Carson. Hell no, I ain't voting for that mumba. He wrote a rap song. What?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:42:16] LEMON: All right. Welcome back, everyone. Ben Carson's campaign is rolling out a rap ad aimed at African-American voters, here's a part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: I'm very hopeful that I'm not the only one whose willing to pick up the baton of freedom, because freedom is not free and we must fight for it everyday. Every one of us must fight for it because we're fighting for our children and the next generation.

ASPIRING MOGUL, RAPPER, BEN CARSON SUPPORTER: If we want to get America back on track, we got to vote Ben Carson matter of fact. Go out and vote

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Go out and vote, the rapper, Aspiring Mogul joins me now. He's behind that. So thank you, sir. Why did you make this song?

ASPIRING MOGUL: Before I say this, let me say, I thank my Lord and savior Jesus Christ for giving me this opportunity in this platform and thank you for having me. To answer that question, initially, last year I wrote a song called "Black Republican" in December before Dr. Carson announced that he was running for office and this is the one of the premises of seeing the movie "Gifted Hands".

I was just so inspired by his life and obstacles he faced and what he overcame. That song ended up on his Facebook page, thanks to Berry Bennett, his campaign manager. I spoke back to him and said, I can write a campaign song and I wrote a campaign song for him and they listened to it and he liked it and now we have a radio ad and a song sir.

LEMON: All right. Interesting. All right. So in 2012, 93 percent of African-Americans voted for Barack Obama. Why is Carson the best candidate for black voters for 2016 you think?

ASPIRING MOGUL: I think, well at least for me my initial reaction to Dr. Carson wasn't so much as political platform. Because when I wrote that song, he hadn't announced he was running but I think people voted for Obama because he was a transformational figure. Obama didn't serve in a long capacity (inaudible) politician and I think he had a message that inspired America. And for me, Dr. Ben Carson's life translates that same ideology to me and when I saw this story and did some, you know, more research on him and I also think we need more positive African-American role models, you know, in our community as a whole and he's been an inspiration to me in getting this far in the presidential candidate, you know, a new candidacy without political, you know, experience is amazing to me.

LEMON: Yeah. It is quite extraordinary. You know, you worked with Carson's campaign on this ad. Let's listen to what Dr. Carson says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARSON: There is people on the campaign who felt that that was way to do things and you know, they're entitled to their opinions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about you?

CARSON: You know, I support, you know, them in doing that but you know, I probably would have taken a little different approach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Different approach. What do you think? Are you disappointed with that?

MOGUL: No, not at all, sir. When I saw "Gifted Hands", I realized even the movie first came on he's a fan of Haydn, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven. He's into classical music and even when he posted my song, he said, I've been critical of the hip-hop industry. So I was under no illusions that Dr. Carson is, you know, the biggest rap fan.

[21:45:15] But at the same time, the fact that I can make a song that resonated with him and he's not a fan of hip-hop music for me it was extraordinary because I connected with something personal I think. Because of everything he's achieved in his life if you would notice, you know, little old me, something that I did from a small town in Georgia, I'm truly humbled and just thank God for the opportunity.

DON: We're going to talk more about Dr. Carson and the Pyramids and all of that stuff. But can you rap us to break?

ASPIRING MOGUL: Yeah. As a kid I always thought about American dream, the point in time when everybody know that you on the scene, what would it look like? Would I stay with the Lord, would a Bible, oh God would mentioned, mention of course, would I worry about opinions or the haters be talking, don't focus on the negativity, just walk in your calling in the AMG Ben, my Republican friends, one white, one Asian, one as Puerto Rican, what do you pray for? Are you talking to God, looking for a holy woman no (inaudible), how do we get here? Moving like a rough child, Christian, Republican rapper in my own...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:50:00] LEMON: So, when you're running for president you have to take a position on just about a thousand issues, it's not about everything. And the Egyptian pyramids are not usually one of them. Nevertheless, that's when Ben Carson finds himself right now, defending his theory on the pyramids. And what they were used for.

Let's talk about it with Kara Cooney, Egyptologist. Egyptologist, that's right. And Meghan Henning, Assistance Professor of Christian Origin at the University of Dayton. I don't know if I have ever heard of an Egyptologist but here we are.

So all right, Ben Carson has an interesting theory that the Egyptian pyramids were built to store grain. And here's what he said at a college commencement, this was back in 1998.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids in order to store grain. And all the archeologists think that they were made for the Pharaohs, great. But, you know, it would have to be something awfully big when you stop to think about it. I don't think it would just disappear over the course of time to store that much grain. And when you look at the way the pyramids are made with many chambers that are hermetically sealed, they would have to be that way for a reason.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Here's what he said about it yesterday when it came up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: Some people believe in the Bible, like I do. And don't find that to be silly at all. And believe that God created the earth and don't find that to be silly at all. The second progressives try to ridicule it any time it comes up and they're welcome to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. Kara, who better to ask than an Egyptologist, what about his theory?

KARA COONEY, EGYPTOLOGIST: Well, first I would say that a belief in God and looking at the scientific facts about the pyramids, these two things are not mutually exclusive. So, I would correct it there. The pyramids were each built by individual kings who marked them with their names and built them to have their bodies put inside the very narrow burial shafts and then into burial chambers and they fronted these pyramids with mortuary temples that celebrated their cult for the afterlife. Each one has names attached to it. Each one is clearly connected to a particular king. And there's no evidence that any were used to store grain and I'm afraid they're not hermetically sealed either, so none of that really works.

LEMON: OK. So here -- Meghan here's the thing, Meghan, Carson, he is a very smart guy. He's a neurosurgeon. He's a world renowned neurosurgeon. He is not claiming to be an Egyptologist like Dr. Cooney is. He says he believes this because it's in the Bible. Does this match up to the stories in the Bible about Joseph?

MEGHAN HENNING, ASSISTANCE PROFESSOR OF CHRISTIAN ORIGINS, UNIVERSITY OF DAYTON: Unfortunately it doesn't. He's not only wrestling the history of the Egyptian people away from the Egyptians by telling the story this way, he is also taking away the rich history of interpretation of the Biblical text from millions of Jews, other faithful Christians and even Muslims who see that Joseph's story as a story of the Jewish people in exile undergoing the real human struggle that it is to be an exile.

Joseph is not building the pyramids in the Hebrew Bible texts. And there are many, many faithful Jews, Christians and Muslims who recognize, as Kara has told us, right, that this is separated -- that Joseph narrative is separated by many centuries from the building of the pyramids.

LEMON: Yeah, it looks like you want to get in on this Kara.

HENNING: We tell the story this way.

LEMON: Yeah, are you wanting to say something?

COONEY: Yeah, yeah. I would say that I think Dr. Carson is trying to connect Imhotep with Joseph. And there's actually a really interesting fourth century Egyptian text that talks about Imhotep of the third dynasty having a dream, a dream about a famine. The god Khnum tells him what to do and how to deal with this famine. He wakes up, tells the king. Oh I know what to do with the famine. And then, they fixed the situation and then they build a monument to the god Khnum as a thank you.

And if you look at the aspects of this story, it lines up very well with the Joseph narrative in the Bible. And so, what people with a religious agenda have done is then looked at who Imhotep is, third dynasty, looked at the only structure that he has left on the ground in Egypt and that's the stepped pyramid of Djoser and Saqqara. And then said, oh, if you look underground there's actually all these spaces where you could fill grain in. But I don't know anybody who is going to grow grain out near the Nile and then ship it into the desert...

LOMEN: OK.

HENNING: ....for storage. It's actually just not a very good connection. But there is a connection between the Joseph story and Imhotep and the Egyptians story and the Biblical story and that does hold water. But to jump to the pyramids being grain silos is the problem.

LEMON: Meghan I have to ask you this in the short time that we have left, as a Biblical...

HENNING: Yeah, I think the problem is that it not only...

LEMON: Let me ask you this, as a biblical scholar, you say a lot of people see it in Biblical text that they take what they want out of it. They see what they want to see. So, what's the moral of the story of Joseph here?

HENNING: Great. All right.

Well the moral of the story is that this is a rich story about the struggle of our people in exile. This is about the Jewish people in exile. This is about Jewish. This is about Joseph struggling to keep his identity when he finds himself a slave in pharaoh's court.

[21:55:07] LEMON: What's the moral of taking and saying what you want to see in Biblical text?

HENNING: And so, when we tell the story, the story -- Right, when we tell the story -- the story of American capitalism, of Ben Carson pulling himself up by his boot straps, we end up seeing a 21st century capitalist, voila, in an ancient Jewish text. And so, we have to be really suspicious...

LEMON: OK.

HENNING: ...when we find ourselves in a text that that's far removed from us.

LEMON: I've got to go. Thank you both. I appreciate it. Have a great weekend. Thanks.

HENNING: Thank you.

COONEY: Thank you so much.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Meet one of this year's top 10 CNN Heroes, Shawn Gobin is a combat veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. And when he returned home, he hiked the entire Appalachian trail. Now he helps other combat vets follow in his footsteps.

SEAN GOBIN, FORMER WAR VETERAN & TOP 10 CNN HEROES: You've eight hours a day to hike. And your brain has no choice but to just relieve a lot of these experiences that you've gone through. So, all these experiences that you put away for years come to the surface and then you have to deal with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Check out the top 10 heroes and vote once a day every day for your favorite as CNN hero of the year. Good night.