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Don Lemon Tonight

Trump Courts Evangelicals; Interviewer Tells Clinton His Family is For Trump; Donald Trump Campaign Turmoil; Trump Argues He's Better for LGBT Community. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired June 21, 2016 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So thank you, guys, very much. Appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

LEMON: All right, thank you. And, by the way, it is a myth that Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Lewis was on it. Nelson Mandela was on it. My stepfather was on it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

All right, here we go. It is a top of the hour.

Donald Trump preparing for his next big speech tomorrow and promising to hammer Hillary Clinton. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Candidate Trump meeting with conservative Christians here in New York today. Will they support him in the general? I'm going to talk with two leaders who were there.

Meanwhile, as Clinton blasts Trumpnomics as dangerous, our brand new CNN poll finds the majority of voters trust Trump on the economy and the Republican's presumptive nominee said he would be happy to self- fund his campaign.

With just $1.3 million in the bank versus Clinton's $42 million. Can he put his money where his mouth is?

We're going to begin tonight, though, with CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta following the Trump campaign.

Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Don, Donald Trump is trying to pivot away from some of the recent troubles hampering his campaign. He's got a speech set for tomorrow aimed at attacking Hillary Clinton right here in New York City. And as Trump has been brushing off concerns about his poll numbers and recent fund-raising totals, the presumptive G.O.P. nominee has been attempting to turn up the heat on Hillary Clinton.

At a meeting with evangelical leaders right here in New York, Trump question Clinton's Christian faith.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary in terms of religion. She's been in the public eye for years and years, and yet there's no -- there's nothing out there. There's like nothing out there. It's going to be an extension of Obama, but it's going to be worse because with Obama you had your guard up. With Hillary, you don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The Trump campaign has even set up a Web site called LyingCrookedHillary.com, but the campaign acknowledges it's not even ready yet and won't be up and running for a few days.

Don?

LEMON: Thank you very much for that, Jim. I appreciate that.

Joining me now, two people who were at the meeting today with Donald Trump, Bishop Harry Jackson, the pastor of hope Christian Church and Marjorie Dannenfelser, who is the president of the Susan B. Anthony list, who helped organize the event.

I'm so glad to have both of you here. So you were both inside this Trump meeting today. What was your biggest takeaway?

Marjorie, you first.

MARJORIE DANNENFELSER, PRESIDENT, SUSAN B. ANTHONY LIST: Well, my biggest takeaway was that there is a distance to be made between what everybody wanted to believe and -- and what they hoped to gain from this meeting, meaning Trump was there to help bridge the gap.

I think everybody in that meeting was really willing and hoping to find something that they could embrace about him. And I think they did find it. I think the most important thing, despite sort of feelings and emotion and swagger and all the things is that there are positions that need to be taken, that have to be pursued in this election.

LEMON: All right.

DANNENFELSER: And I think they found that there were -- those positions were -- were well documented by him on the pro-life movement perspective. It was pro-life judges. It was -- it was also the -- and religious liberty, they were many commitments made as well. I think it really helped bridge that difference and it meant that there they will be far more likely for evangelicals to vote for Trump on Election Day.

LEMON: OK, interesting. Bishop, what's your takeaway?

BISHOP HARRY JACKSON, PASTOR, HOPE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Well I wanted to hear what he thought about things like criminal justice reform, what he thought about poverty, education. How do you bring jobs to minority communities?

I believe minority evangelicals are going to set the tone and maybe decide the election so I was very pleased to hear that he was listening, he was attentive and that he's willing to reach out and make some real strides.

LEMON: Did he address those issues that you are concerned with?

JACKSON: He did address those issues. And I think he's going to prepare to talk more about them. And he gets the gravity of what it looks like to be branded as a racist or seen as an extremist. And he's a very smart guy. And he's a different person sitting around a table or in a room where there's an exchange going on than in some of the rallies.

DANNENFELSER: Yes.

LEMON: That's what many people have said, and that's what I have said when you meet him and interviewing him, he's a different person than when he gets in front of the podium and you're like who is that guy? How do you reconcile that?

DANNENFELSER: Right.

LEMON: Bishop, quickly, though, you said you don't endorse Trump, but you are willing to help him? Why is that?

JACKSON: Well, I think that African-Americans especially need a choice. We've been taken advantage of by the Democratic Party in my opinion. It's almost like they come to us the Sunday before the Tuesday, promise us things, say we feel your pain, but then they go away and do nothing.

And, historically, many times conservatives, and I am a conservative, don't follow through with reaching out on justice issues. So this could be a new opportunity for the minority communities to really have some things delivered that need to be acted on.

LEMON: All right. So Marjorie, you said what happened today exceeded your expectations. What issues did he hit upon for you that helped with conservatives, did he speak on.

DANNENFELSER: Well, I think that the most important thing was that he was, honestly, I know it seems weak, but he was there. The fact that he would show up to an evangelical meeting after everything that he went through in the primary. Our organization started out saying not Trump, absolutely not. He's unacceptable to us. We moved in the direction of accepting him.

Why is that? Because we saw that he made commitments, specific policy commitments on the pro-life issue. He started appointing people in his campaign that were very acceptable. Friends of the pro-life movement. Friends of the conservative movement: Sarah Huckabee, John Mashburn, John Schmitz.

Very strong conservatives that we knew that we could live with. That is an indication of the future administration.

[23:05:50] LEMON: So anything he said before, any of his rhetoric, that he said in the past, none of that matters now. This is time for you to move forward and let bygones be bygones.

DANNENFELSER: I think, look, here's what he is. He is a fresh -- he's got the zeal of a convert on the pro-life issue. He came around the pro-life issue around just a few years ago.

So, today, was an opportunity to talk to him about what that means to him. I think that we started to see what that means. We wanted to hear more of that. And I think that actually he, because of his transparency and his willingness to talk to people that are in this environment, meant that we could start moving towards Election Day with some confidence.

LEMON: Bishop, Donald Trump claims that he is the most LBGT-friendly candidate.

Tony Perkins responded to that today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: No American, which they are under Barack Obama, living in fear because of Islamic terrorists coming to this country. So, yes, LBGT, Catholic, Protestant, I don't care, atheists, as the one who wore the uniform of a United States Marine and as a police officer, no American, no American should live in fear and that's exactly what Donald Trump is saying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Bishop, is the Trump candidacy leaning social concern as toward having to speak more inclusively of, you know, gay and lesbian, bisexual and transgender Americans?

JACKSON: I don't think so. I think what he is doing, he's saying I'm going to protect all Americans and he's trying to really show an inclusive side of himself, meaning he would be the president of all people in the nation, and that's an aspect of his character and his approach that we have not really been able to hear until this moment.

DANNENFELSER: I think one thing that's important to mention is that he brought up the Johnson Amendment, repealing the Johnson Amendment many times during this conversation today. And the Johnson Amendment was a limitation on religious people -- religious people to speak out, pastors, priests.

If you have a tax status which is the church tax status, you can't speak out in elections. He advocated repealing that amendment. That is a top priority for anybody who was a religious leader, a religious believer and so it was really important that he said that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But it's also a top priority for the separation of church and state, because if you have -- if you're in an organization, that you have a tax write-off, then one should not be making religious or political statements.

(CROSSTALK)

DANNENFELSER: Well, this is the argument. If you think the establishment of religion means that anybody who speaks out, who is a religion participator or is part of a church, is an establishment of religion. But, of course, the establishment clause meant that the government should not establish an official religion. It was never meant to apply to free exercise of religion.

So the Johnson Amendment really stifled religious people's ability to speak out on the most important moral matters and religious matters and civil matters of the nation. The Civil Rights Amendment, the abortion issue, and -- and right now --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But you understand why that was there, right?

DANNENFELSER: I understand why.

LEMON: Because many people use Bible verses and use religion to discriminate against African-Americans, to discriminate against women, the same verses they are using now to discriminate against LBGT people. And that was -- and why should someone be sanctioned -- someone sanctioned by the church be able to do that?

(CROSSTALK)

DANNENFELSER: Amen, and those same verses that we use to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: When you have a tax-exempt status, but you won't accept all Americans as part of your organization. That does not make sense.

DANNENFELSER: And those same verses have been used in the civil rights movement for peace, for justice, for mercy and love towards the people, who --

LEMON: But people weren't being killed for peace and justice. People weren't being lynched for peace and justice. People were being killed because they were black because the church said that black people --

DANNENFELSER: These are not biblical values. We're speaking of biblical values being expressed --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: You're absolutely right, but people were using those --

DANNENFELSER: This is not an establishment of religion --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on, let me finish. People were using those Bible verses to discriminate against people, whether or not -- I agree with you, they are not biblical. They are not godly values. But those -- they were being interpreted that way.

(CROSSTALK)

[23:10:03] DANNENFELSER: Should those views be suppressed by the IRS, because they are found by you or somebody else to be misuse, no. They use rightly or wrongly --

LEMON: And first of all, they should not be allowed -- the church should not be allowed to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

DANNENFELSER: It is not an establishment of religion to freely express our opinion, especially whether -- whether we're --

LEMON: But that's what you're saying, it's opinion. It's just an opinion.

DANNENFELSER: And -- and the country was founded on the First Amendment, and it involved the free -- the free exercise of religion.

LEMON: You are free to say whatever you want, but you're also...

(CROSSTALK)

DANNENFELSER: Whether you're Muslim, Jewish --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: ...free to suffer the consequence of saying that. And part of the consequence is, if you, especially if you have a tax-exempt status, is that your tax-exempt status can be revoked, because you are doing something that is not part -- that is a conflict to church and state.

The church should not have any influence in the state. That's how the country was established.

(CROSSTALK) DANNENFELSER: So the moment you use a religious reason to call out people who are injuring, who are undermining human rights, as soon as you use --

LEMON: In your estimation --

DANNENFELSER: No, in your -- I'm just saying, I'm just asking you. As soon as you use a religious reason to call out human rights abuses, then we should be -- we should be -- our speech should be suppressed. Is that what you're saying, because we use a religious -- it's a religious test --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: How is it calling out religious -- what are you saying is a human rights abuse -- to discriminate against someone is a human rights abuse?

DANNENFELSER: How about going after people at the polls because of their -- if you have a religious reason to kill those people, that's an abuse of religious freedom, right? OK. That's -- that's true.

So how about when we use religious -- when we use our religious voice to actually -- to express the dignity of those people who were in that place, that they were created by God for a purpose in this world, love by the Lord and they should be protected by the police and by everybody in this nation including --

LEMON: I think you're going all around the world to make -- to make a point that does not make any sense.

(CROSSTALK)

DANNENFELSER: No, no, no, I think this is a biblical value.

LEMON: OK.

DANNENFELSER: This is a godly value.

LEMON: We'll agree to disagree.

Bishop, I'll give you the last word.

DANNENFELSER: Establishment of religion is not our expressing our individual rights to --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: If I could just make a statement. The Johnson Amendment originally was really suppressing the voice of the African-American church. And that's one of the problems is the freedom of speech and the freedom to really confront issues of the day should be our right as is consistent with our faith. I think that's ultimately what she's attempting to say.

And, unfortunately, we feel as though that handcuffs the church and kind of mutes us unnecessarily. That's the essence of my statement.

LEMON: OK. Thank you, both, for coming on. I appreciate your perspective.

When we come right back, family feud. What Hillary Clinton said to the interviewer who told her his whole family is voting for Trump. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:17:00] LEMON: Hillary Clinton got a surprise during a radio interview today when the host, a Clinton supporter, told her his whole family is voting for Trump.

Joining me now Enrique Santos, host of the top rated "Enrique Santos Show" on Univision Radio. He's also a reserve Miami police officer, a member of the LGBT community and a supporter of Hillary Clinton.

You wear many hats, my friend. And welcome to the show.

ENRIQUE SANTOS, HOST, THE ENRIQUE SANTOS SHOW: Thank you. I'm very proud.

LEMON: Yes.

SANTOS: Thanks for having me on, Don. Very excited to have had madam secretary on today's show, of course.

LEMON: OK. So can we take it down? Can you and I not get into, you know, some sort of confrontation like has been happening this entire show.

I want to start, though, by playing how you wrapped up your interview with Hillary Clinton today. Here we go.

SANTOS: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANTOS: My father is voting for Trump because he says that he can't trust you, my mother says you're a crook and my brother says you should go to jail. What would you say to them?

They are listening right now and others like them. How would you convince them to sit on your side of the field?

Why is Hillary Clinton the right choice for America?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People who know me don't pay attention to the kind of ridiculous, untrue attacks that are in the media against me, that come out of, you know, Donald Trump and other Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So she went on to say that she had a good track record as senator and secretary of state. How do you think she handled that?

SANTOS: I think she handled it very well. I think she was very honest and open, and that's how I see Hillary Clinton is. Although some people don't see her that way, like my father, like my mother, and like my brother. And that's the beautiful thing about this country.

You know, my parents migrated and my grandparents migrated from communist Cuba, so they have not been able ever to vote in their country. And my grandparents, two of them have already died, and not able to return to their Cuba, or vote their Cuba, or see a free Cuba.

So I think it's very important to be able to -- you know, we are blessed that this country has opened doors to s many of my Latin brothers and sisters from so many wonderful countries and that's what we're made up of. That's the fabric of the United States.

But, Don, what worries me is --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Can I ask you something, did they tell you...

SANTOS: Sure.

LEMON: ...what the turning point was for them, you know, to vote for Donald Trump rather than to support Hillary Clinton?

SANTOS: No, they can't, and that's the whole point. The majority of the people that are all -- too far right can't really tell you. They just hear things and repeat what people are saying, and -- that don't even make sense like the majority of the stuff that Donald Trump says. It makes absolutely no sense. A lot of -- plays into a lot of what's going on, but it's not really concrete. His ideas aren't concrete.

The turning point, I can't really tell you. I don't think they can tell you, themselves. I consider the turning point for me was, you know, because when I originally registered to vote in this country was to do what a good Cuban-American should do is vote -- register as a Republican. And then I noticed that people would just vote for parties just because they voted for parties. I don't like voting for parties.

I like as growing up as a gay man here in the United States, I realized that I needed to make decisions on my own. And this country runs very well and at its best when it's not far right, it's not far left, it meets in the middle, when we can agree to disagree, and that's what this country is really made up of.

So the turning point for me, personally, Don, I can tell you, was that. I wanted to decide on my own. I'm an independent. And I like voting for the person that makes most sense out of all the nonsense. And, quite honestly, what Donald Trump is saying makes no sense and it scares me.

[23:20:20] LEMON: OK. So, listen, Donald Trump has been saying all along that he's going to get a lot of support from the Hispanic community. Apparently, has the support of your Cuban-American family. You know, a group that traditionally votes Republican.

Do you think that he'll get broader support beyond Cubans, who traditionally vote Republican?

SANTOS: I doubt it. We'd have to see in November, right? Statistics are statistics. It is what it is. All these -- you see the percentages today. They say Donald Trump has this much and Hillary has this much support. The independents are going this way. Republicans are going this way. Women are favoring.

He goes on and repeats, and says that, you know, he's winning with Hispanics. He's winning with people in the gay community. Now I see a hashtag when I was on the way here to the studio to speak with you, "Gays for Trump."

I don't know what to tell you. You don't know what to believe. There's so much stuff on the Internet. I like making decisions on my own. I like making informed decisions and I think that that's what we should be basing our vote on.

LEMON: We're going to be talking to one of those gays for Trump. It's Chris Barron coming up in the next hour -- coming up in this hour. We're going to be discussing that.

But we have been talking a lot about Trump and race. And one of his biggest criticisms is related to his comments about minorities, particularly Mexicans.

Even Paul Ryan said Trump's comments about, you know, a judge with Mexican heritage was a textbook definition of racism.

I have to ask you. Do you think Trump is racist?

SANTOS: I don't know him personally. I can't in black and white tell you that he is a racist. However, I can tell you that he's feeding in and saying racist comments, saying things that would -- that would lead you to believe, right, that a -- that a person that says the things that he says, that does what he does and talks to people in the way and treats people the way he treats people, you would tend to think that he's racist.

I can tell you because I know people personally like Alicia Machado, Miss Universe 1996. I know her personally. She's not making up a story when she was called, when she says she was bullied by Donald Trump when she says she was called Miss Piggy. It's not made up with the things that he said publicly here on women and when he makes fun of the handicap.

I mean, is this the person that we want leading the United States of America? I'm concerned for our future. I think we all should be.

I understand there's some concerns when it comes to Hillary Clinton and some people that just don't like her for whatever the reason is. I think that -- it's scary. I mean, in my lifetime, in our lifetime, Don, I don't think we've ever seen an election as such where we've seen so much hate, so much violence. It's -- we're living in some freaky times.

LEMON: Yes.

Well, and it's going to get even more interesting as we, you know, get closer to November.

SANTOS: Unfortunately, yes.

LEMON: Thank you, Enrique Santos. I appreciate it.

SANTOS: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: When we come right back, Hillary Clinton predicts Donald Trump would be a disaster for the economy, but do voters see it that way? And we'll discuss that interview as well, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:27:20] LEMON: Donald Trump trying to get back on track amid campaign turmoil. Here to discuss Stephen Miller, the senior advisor to Donald Trump. Bernard Whitman the author of "52 Reasons to Vote for Hillary." And Alice Stewart, Republican strategist.

So, Stephen, first, what was it like inside the Trump campaign of day one without Corey Lewandowski? What was it like?

STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: Well, Corey performed a tremendous service for this campaign for which we will always be grateful. And Corey exit the campaign with a degree of class and poise that I think is an example for anybody out there in life to follow.

Beyond that, I don't really have anything more to say except for the fact that we're looking forward to running a vigorous general election campaign against Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: But you realize you didn't answer my question. I just ask you what was it like?

Here's the thing. OK, so the first panel that I had on, our correspondents, Jim Acosta said, when I said what was it like today, he said, Don, we've gotten more e-mails today than we've gotten maybe the entire campaign. You work inside the campaign and you can't tell me what it's like.

MILLER: Well, I'm happy to answer that question.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: That's what I said. What was it like for the first day without Corey Lewandowski?

(CROSSTALK) MILLER: Well, I just wanted to take a moment. I think it's important to take a moment to recognize him.

LEMON: That's fine. But what was it like --

MILLER: The class with which Corey handled his departure. I think it's important. I think it's important example.

LEMON: But you see, what was it like inside of the campaign?

MILLER: But today's campaign, yes, we were starting a full (INAUDIBLE)-style rapid response operation in which every lie is going to be rebutted, every falsehood is going to be challenged, every statement that is incorrect is going to be put to the test.

And so today, America saw and reporters saw a vigorous, aggressive full-throated rapid response operation to Hillary Clinton's foreign policy speech.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

So today the campaign release -- let me stay with him, numerous press releases ranging from lurid education, to Iran, the Iran deal, to the economy, he needs to focus on foreign policy.

Is he being advised on all these matters now? Are we going to start hearing more? Well, we have heard some things from him. Are we going to start hearing more?

MILLER: Well, he actually, he did give a foreign policy speech, I think, maybe like six weeks ago now.

LEMON: And he's giving some tomorrow.

MILLER: Right. Which would laid out his foreign policy philosophy and a shift away from nation-building and internationalism to consensus-building and focusing on discreet national security goals like defeating ISIS and terrorism.

LEMON: OK.

MILLER: Now, tomorrow, he's going to give a speech which is going to get into foreign policy except it's going to focus at least in some measure on the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: Rebutting what she said about him today as well.

MILLER: No, it's going to be focusing on Hillary Clinton's record as secretary of state.

When Hillary Clinton came into office, as we know, none of us even -- we didn't know about ISIS, right? ISIS wasn't even on the map.

[23:30:02] Four year later, ISIS is in Libya, ISIS is in Syria. Her decision to push regime change in Syria or decision to push regime change in Libya, her decision to both go into Iraq and to precipitously withdraw from Iraq has put ISIS all across the Middle East.

LEMON: He'll going to discuss all of that tomorrow ...

MILLER: Yes.

LEMON: Just for limited time. Alice, go ahead.

ALICE STEWART, FORMER TED CRUZ COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR: And all of these steps are critical for what the next step is. And as he mentioned, Corey did a phenomenal job getting Trump to where he is but now it's time to shift to the general election mode and focus on fleshing out policies and no more of what we had in the primary which -- from my candidate standpoint, Ted Cruz, we didn't like the fact that it was attacking Republicans, attacking the RNC, attacking Paul Ryan.

Now, clearly, there's a shift to bringing the message against Hillary Clinton, against Barack Obama and that is clearly what the Trump campaign is doing. And that's what's necessary in order to continue to move the ball down the field and be successful.

LEMON: OK. Let's talk about money now, OK, because, you know, we talked about the amount of money earlier on the show and everyone has been talking about the amount of money that Donald Trump has raised or has not raised. So here's what I want to you, Bernard, this is Mark Cuban tweeted about Donald Trump in his campaign finance. He says, "If @realDonaldTrump were fractionally as rich as he says he is he would write a $200 million check to propel his campaign. He doesn't have the cash."

So you say that the FEC filing was extraordinary and a major indicator of his weakness. You think Donald Trump can make up that deficit?

BERNARD WHITMAN, FORMER CLINTON POLLSTER & DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No, I don't. I mean, you know, everybody knows the first thing when you're running a business is you have to watch cash flow. You got to watch how much you're spending, how much revenue you're taking in. Clearly nobody is mining the ship. It is an absolute outrage. He has a million dollars, that's incredible, it's absurd. It's outrageous and the idea that he is this amazing businessman and can comb his deals and negotiate from a position of strength, the one thing you never want to do in politics is have a major embarrassment.

Every single person knows that journalist and people who watch campaigns, watch these numbers religiously, they know they're going to come out and make sure to push for fund raising deadlines, and even in his fund-raising deadlines perpetuates these lies. I got to ask my friend, Stephen, this rapid response on lies, are they going to actually turn that on their own campaign because he's just full of one lie after another after another. The most recent fund-raising e-mail that sent out that, "This is the fund-raising e-mail (inaudible) by the campaign." He'd sent out four earlier in the month.

LEMON: OK. That was unexpected. Would you like to answer that or you don't have to. MILLER: No. Let me (inaudible) say I don't want to respond but I actually do. If you want to talk about something shameful and disgraceful and outrageous, what's outrageous is that Ambassador Stevens in Libya and his staff requested security as many as 600 times and they were left to die, blood smeared on the walls of the compound. You've seen the pictures. That is an outrage.

I'm sorry, but your feigned indignation over the fund-raising numbers strikes me to be insincere at best. And I'll also say that we as a country, as a political culture, as a media culture, need to start focusing on the issues that affect the lives of real Americans.

You have situations where you have single mothers who can't get enough cash to get child care for their children. You falling school in the inner cities, you have rising crime.

LEMON: Hold on. Hold on. I have missed two breaks on the show and if I miss another one, you will not be seeing me here tomorrow night. So we'll continue this right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:37:50] LEMON: And we're back now with Stephen Miller, Bernard Whitman and also Alice Stewart. So you were responding to what?

WHITMAN: Yes, two quick points here. Number one, you know, it's truly disgusting is the fact that Republicans like Mr. Trump and the rest of your campaign are continuing to politicize the death of Ambassador Stevens. I know personally that members of Ambassador Stevens' families are absolutely disgusted that the Republicans continue to draw his name through the mud and politicize his death to score political points. It's honestly outrageous.

LEMON: But you don't think that people have the right to know about her record as secretary of state.

WHITMAN: No, they absolutely do but they have to do, but to continue to bring up -- to continue to bring up Benghazi and throw Ambassador Stevens name around to score political points is beyond the pale. Never saw that happen when al-Qaeda attacked the World Trade Centers under George W. Bush. No one went up and said, "You know what? George W. Bush is responsible for the death of 3,000 Americans. We're going to hold him personally responsible in the way of personal attacks the Republicans and Mr. Trump are doing to Hillary Clinton, completely outrageous.

The other point I want to make is, you talk about hard working Americans, where are the hard working Americans' jobs going to go when Donald Trump gives $3 trillion in tax breaks to millionaires, 2 trillion to corporations, loses 3.5 million jobs according Moody's. Hillary Clinton's plan to invest in infrastructure alone would generate 3.5 million new jobs as opposed to Donald Trump's plan which will cost 3.5 million jobs.

LEMON: He's talking about his plan today and there are several people have responded to her plan saying that, "You know, she's actually right." How do you respond?

MILLER: Well, there three things that he said there, I'll start with the reverse. You can tell what's wrong with the Democratic Party today when they are citing Moody's, the people who helped fuel the sub-prime lending crisis that crashed the economy, and Moody's also interestingly in their plan if you read the plan in print. They said that Donald Trump's immigration plan would raise wages for working Americans.

The corollary of that, Hillary Clinton's plan to bring a record numbers of migrants will depress wages for working Americans. Black and Hispanic Americans will suffer the deepest most severe cuts because Hillary Clinton's corporatist immigration plan.

On you first point, when -- our ambassador is murdered on foreign soil. It is an issue that affects the entire country. Our entire country came under attack.

[23:40:00] And if Hillary Clinton refused or failed to provide security to the ambassador and his staff, especially because it is a situation, she personally created in Libya, that is a direct factor in her fitness to serve of and she's not fit to serve of, not as secretary of state, not as president.

LEMON: Alice?

STEWART: Well, I think obviously you need to be prepared to answer this question again tomorrow because certainly it will come up in his speech that he'll be making tomorrow talking about Hillary's accomplishments or lack thereof.

I do want to touch on the money situation. If you're just looking at the overall numbers that's one thing, but you also have to take into consideration in this last cycle. Donald Trump received $2 billion worth of earned media himself based on his appearances on television, Hillary Clinton around 750 million. That has to be taken into consideration as well, and that's money that he didn't have to raise.

He's clearly at the stage now, Stephen has mentioned they have had fund raisers for the last week or so and that's important. Money is one factor, but all the talk that has been spent today and the last 24 hours on fund-raising is something that journalists like to talk about.

LEMON: You think the fund-raising is not a big deal?

STEWART: I don't think it is. First ...

MILLER: Those numbers are old, those are 45 days old.

STEWART: One point also, you have to factor in the parties themselves are also helping on the ground and this is lost in this narrative. The RNC raised $12 million this last quarter compared to the DNC, 11 million, so we have the national parties with Republicans out-raising the Democrats and they will help with the infrastructure on the ground, and people do not compare how much candidates raise. They are concerned about money in their own pocket, not in the candidates' pocket.

LEMON: But don't you think it's important that if Donald Trump as I said to Stephen. Stephen says, you know, he has picked up on people's hopes and dreams, right, and what they want. But in order to accomplish that he's going to need money to stay in the race. That's the question. If he can't raise money how does he stay in the race in order to do that?

STEWART: That's what they are in the process of. And they've made the shift to focus on bringing on people that will help to focus on policy, focus on the general election message which will be opposing Hillary as well as Barack Obama and bringing in fund-raising and ...

LEMON: Hold on, hang on, hang on. You don't look at those numbers and you go 42 million and look at 3 million go whoa, or 1 million and go oh, whoa.

STEWART: There a lot of other factors to ...

LEMON: He's got a lot of ground to make it.

STEWART: A big portion of the money that is used -- that a campaign brings in is on paid media and if you can get $2 billion worth of earned media for free why spend money and that's a simple fact of the matter.

LEMON: That's over.

STEWART: Absolutely.

LEMON: That's over now.

STEWART: And that's why it's shifting and moving forward.

WHITMAN: No, but it's a symptomatic of complete disarray in the campaign. The campaign manager was fired. Donald Trump looks like he's gone from "The Apprentice" to "Biggest Loser", he's got to open revolt, still the convention in Cleveland is less than a month away and suddenly, the never Trump movement is burgeoning again.

I mean, you have a situation where the Speaker of the House can barely stand the idea of having to run on a ticket with Donald Trump. We have Mitch McConnell who basically sort of given up hope on the White House, just wants to protect the Senate completely. You have the evangelicals, after that -- media with evangelicals had to hold press conference, there was nine people on the Dayes (ph). They said. "Who here is now going to endorse Donald Trump or publicly support Donald Trump?" Not a single evangelical leader raised their hand. The silence was ...

LEMON: You were in the meeting, aren't you?

STEWART: I was at the meeting, a thousand evangelical leaders from across the country, influential people. And here's the thing with that. He was there, he spoke with them about issues that were important to them including Supreme Court justices, protecting religious liberty, supporting our friend, Israel, and issues that they are concerned with.

From their standpoint all the people in that room, they will vote for Donald Trump, but as it stands now, endorsing them, they have more leverage to continue to push him to support their causes by withholding their endorsements and withholding their support by making sure in holding his feet to the fire on these issues, and that's a big part why they didn't run out of the room screaming I'm going to endorse and support Donald Trump.

LEMON: That's a very good point.

STEWART: And it is about -- they have more leverage, they have to withhold some of that support in order to make sure that he ...

LEMON: You don't want them to know too soon that he has you.

WHITMAN: The election is four months away. I mean, the idea ...

MILLER: Have you decided who you're voting for, by the way?

WHITMAN: Hillary Clinton, just in case you were wondering. I mean, the idea that the evangelicals would say, "Well, yeah, we heard him, not so sure yet." I mean, you have people all across -- you had Adam Herzing (ph) was on, he's like, "You know what? I'm not right there yet on Donald Trump." I mean, the election is going to come up very, very soon.

STEWART: I'll tell you this, how about put Hillary Clinton in a room full of a thousand of evangelicals and see how that goes.

MILLER: The good news is the people not politicians choose.

LEMON: You awfully relaxes on. Look at you, leaning back, chilling out. Thank you all.

STEWART: Thank you.

WHITMAN: Thank you, Don.

[23:44:45] LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Donald Trump says he's the better candidate for gay voters and as you might imagine not everyone agrees with that. Here to discuss Conservative Strategist Chris Barron and Councilman Corey Johnson of New York City, a Hillary Clinton delegate. Gentlemen, good to have both of you, thank you so much.

Councilman Johnson, we'll start with you. Donald Trump made a big push lately in the aftermath of Orlando saying that he'll be better for the gay community than Hillary Clinton. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And by the way, the LBGT community is just -- what's happened to them is just so sad and to be thinking about where their policies are currently with this administration is a disgrace to that community.

We want to live in a country where gay and lesbian Americans and all Americans are safe from radical Islam.

I'm much better for gays.

What does that say -- ask the gays what they think and what they do in not only Saudi Arabia, in many of these countries with the gay community? Just ask. And then you tell me, who is your friend Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?

Hillary Clinton, crooked Hillary, takes tens of millions of dollars into her foundation, foundation, takes tens of millions of dollars from countries that kill gays and that enslave women, and I will tell you I am far better for women, I far better for gays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Councilman Johnson, I mean, it is ground breaking the way that the GOP presumptive nominee is really trying to, you know, get the gay vote, the LBGT vote. Do you think that he's right? That he is better for gay Americans, LGBT American than Hillary Clinton?

COUNCILMAN COREY JOHNSON, NEW YORK CITY: Well, I think it's funny that just because you say the four letters, LBGT, you somehow are the champion of the LBGT community. He met today in New York, as your previous panel said, with a thousand evangelical leaders, the who's who of the anti-gay right, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell Jr, Ralph Reed, the list goes on, people that have made a professional career of demonizing and denigrating gay people.

There have been serious impacts and efforts that have really hurt gay people because of what these folks have done. Donald Trump is against marriage equality. Donald Trump says he wants to remake the Supreme Court and make it even more conservative. Donald Trump has never been there for the gay community so it is laughable to me that just because he says those four letters he is all of a sudden a champion. He is a megalomaniacal, arrogant, crazy person.

LEMON: Chris Barron, I can hear you breathing on the other side. I know you want to jump in on this, what?

CHRIS BARRON, CONSERVATIVE STRATEGIST: Well, I think it's hilarious. If the Donald Trump is not allowed to talk to evangelical Christians but Hillary Clinton can take $50 million from Saudi Arabia, that the penalty for being gay in Saudi Arabia ranges from chemical castration to death.

So you tell me, you tell me, Donald Trump can't talk to evangelical Christians but Hillary Clinton is supposed to be a champion of the gay community and her foundation has lined their pockets with money from regimes the brutalized LBGT folks, flat out hypocrisy.

JOHNSON: In 2011, Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State stood up in front of the United Nations and said gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights.

BARRON: Like you said just saying it doesn't make it so. You said it yourself. You said just because Donald Trump says the words LBGT doesn't mean anything. Just because Hillary Clinton says that gay rights ...

JOHNSON: For the record, let's take at the positions.

BARRON: Like Donald Trump is not taking money from Saudi Arabia.

JOHNSON: Donald Trump is pandering to the anti-gay right, does not support our community in any way.

BARRON: By talking to them?

JOHNSON: And, Chris, I mean, I am sort of offended in many ways. There's an epidemic of violence against gay people in America. Gay kids are still committing suicide and still parental rejection, gay people in Florida can be fired from their jobs. Hillary Clinton is with us on all of those issues. Donald Trump isn't, and he is pandering to the anti-gay fringe right of America, and I guess, if I remember correctly in September, Chris, you've said on your own Twitter feed, "Donald Trump is a sociopath." So all of a sudden you're supporting a sociopath.

BARRON: Yeah, because guess what? Donald Trump is far superior to Hillary Clinton, and guess what?

JOHNSON: You want a sociopath as president?

BARRON: Let me tell you what. Hillary Clinton is a bigger sociopath than Donald Trump could ever be. And by the way, Hillary Clinton has been for LBGT rights when it's been politically expedient for her. The fact is Donald Trump has a career in business that has a stellar record on LBGT rights. Don't sit here and say Donald Trump has never been a friend to the LBGT community because the truth is Donald Trump put his money where his mouth is.

When Hillary Clinton -- when it was politically expedient for Hillary Clinton to be against LBGT equality she was. When her husband signed don't ask don't tell she was for it. When her husband signed the Defense of Marriage Act she was for it. Now that it's a political -- surprise, Hillary Clinton has come around. She uses LGBT people as ...

LEMON: Chris, the last time I had you on your show you said you had evolved on Donald Trump. At first you were against him and now you're for him. Hillary Clinton has evolved on the issue of gay rights and same-sex marriage and don't ask and don't tell and all of that, so is that -- can she evolve and -- can you evolve and she not evolve?

BARRON: No, she can evolve, but he can't sit there and say that -- that Hillary Clinton has been so wonderful on LBGT rights and Donald Trump has never done anything. The fact is that Donald Trump not only has a track record, a business track record, of protecting LBGT folks, an extensive record but he's also the only candidate who's speaking out on the ex-existential threat that LBGT people face today from extermination from radical Islamic terrorists.

This election it is not going to be about bathrooms. It's not going to be about who is going to bake our wedding cake. This is about life or death.

LEMON: But it's also about who can get married and have the same rights as heterosexual couples. And we can get married.

[23:55:00] JOHNSON: So, yes, we can get married, thankfully, because we have a Supreme Court that decided to do the right thing by a slim majority. Donald Trump has said today that he wants to readjust the Supreme Court with a conservative majority that would likely rule against our rights.

Donald Trump is someone who does not treat people with dignity. He's mocking disabled reporters. He's calling -- he is calling women slobs and pigs.

LEMON: Let me jump in here because I want to ask you, Chris then, if you're, you know, a gay man, if you're in a relationship or what have you and you say that this is about having the same rights, if Donald Trump wants to appoint people to the Supreme Court who may -- who are going to try to overturn that, how do you reconcile that?

BARRON: For one thing this is like the -- the boogie man that the left wants to trot out right now. Marriage equality isn't going away. And guess what? Donald Trump is going to replace Antonin Scalia who is a conservative with a conservative on the court.

JOHNSON: I hope that doesn't happen. I hope that doesn't happen.

BARRON: I know the left wants to scare gay people into not even thinking about voting for Donald Trump.

JOHNSON: No. We want gay people to have equal rights and dignity.

BARRON: They're going to take the way -- if you want people to have equal rights and dignity then talk about combating radical Islam.

LEMON: Thank you all.

JOHNSON: Thank you. We can't let Donald Trump be president. It's too scary.

LEMON: I appreciate both of you. We'll be right back.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Don.